Posted on 07/14/2022 4:34:51 AM PDT by Eleutheria5
This is so bad it’s obviously the work of a troll.
It’s obivious you don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to hypersonics:
“With an arms race ongoing between the United States, Russia, and China to field new hypersonic weapons, the internet has seemingly drawn battle lines between two camps: those who believe hypersonic missiles represent the future of warfare, and those who think these new weapons create more problems than what they’re worth.”
“Like so many raging debates on social media, the internet’s distaste for nuance would have you believe that there’s only one correct answer when it comes to hypersonics. The truth is a bit more complicated than that.”
Here’s the link to the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3R4PjjQn04
And also this:
“Everyone is suddenly talking about hypersonic flight and hypersonic missiles! Is it all just hype? Or will we really see super-fast airplanes in the near future? How much do we need to worry about the supposed arms race between the United States, Russia, and China? We looked into it for you, and here’s your 15 minutes summary.”
Here’s the link to the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTEhG8zzftQ
I trust these two individuals’ knowledge on the subject far and above what you are slinging.
The ultimate problem we ran into in South Vietnam, was that the people there
were never as quite as in it to win it as we were. Are the Taiwanese more
dedicated to remaining free? I’m not convinced of it.
I don’t want to see Taiwan taken by force. In all honesty I don’t want them
being absorbed into China at all. One only has to look at Hong Kong to see
why. The treatment of the people of Shanghai is another sterling example.
Then you have to look at what is taking place in the greater western Pacific
region.
The Solomon Islands have decided being in the China sphere of influence is
good. Are other nations going to follow suit?
Is Taiwan worth chancing the loss of 1-3 carriers over?
If we go into this, we will have to humiliate China, because it plans on replacing
us. We will have to defang it. At this point, I don’t see that being possible short
of a nuclear exchange.
Our trade has financed China’s rise to enough of a military power to give us a
major headache.
In the early 90s I predicted our trade with China would result in one thing. Our
youth would have to die as a result.
Yeah…
The South Vietnamese government was dominated by Catholics in a country whose population was overwhelmingly Buddhist.
Was there an internal conflict based on that factor? Did the South’s populace
refuse to fight based on that factor?
Oh, by the way. Learn how to spell: "equivalent."
If your spacial comprehension is as good as your spelling, then 20% is wrong, too.
But for the sake of discussion, let's assume your 20% is the number. Then you are admitting that the rag-tag, third-world Ruskie military, who are great losers in this "special military operation," have managed, according to your admission, captured 20% of the country.
Now, isn't that interesting. This is after we've thrown over seventy-five billion in cash, spent eight years training their military, and sent them the best military equipment our tax money can buy.
Do you really expect anyone to believe your crap?
Considering most of the region within that 20 percent was already under occupation by “Russian separatists” for the last several years, then its formal military “capture” is hardly an example of Russian military prowess.
Oh, BTW, is it not time for your daily Putin ball-licking session? Best hurry along ... Your lover does not like to be kept waiting.
That was a genuinely well done high school level presentation. But thinking that you are addressing my issue by posting it actually shows that you don’t understand the problem. The MIT paper compares the strategic merits of hypersonic missile technology and ballistic missile technology. That is entirely beside the point. The Russian technology is for tactical use at ranges up to about 1,500 km, but usually much shorter distances. We have no defense against them, and, consequently, the UFA has no defense against them. This is an enormous vulnerability because current anti-missile systems are fairly effective against conventional tactical missiles. I don’t doubt that at some point there will be defenses, but there will not be in any time frame relevant to this war.
The US has yet to successfully test a hypersonic missile. The Russian systems are fully tested, operational, deployed, and effective. This alone should give you pause about claiming the Russians are “primitive”. While Soviet technology was way behind ours in most respects, in the last 20 years the Russians have caught up and, in some cases, surpassed us. The Chinese are also ahead of us in hypersonics, although the claims of achieving Mach 30, or even Mach 22, are ridiculous. It is likely, though, that they have serviceable anti-ship hypersonic missiles. The relevance for now of the hypersonics with respect to our navy is that, with no current known defense against hypersonics, our carrier battle groups are very inviting targets. As a practical matter, in a war with Russia (or perhaps China) our carrier battle groups would have to stand off beyond the distance of the missiles. In the case of the Russian missiles, that means that the carrier airpower would be unusable in the conflict unless we want to run a high probability risk of losing the carrier and the group.
“High-shcool level presentation” Uh-huh ...
Some context. This article is from 2019, but relevant to discussing the problem - Incoming: Can Aircraft Carriers Survive Hypersonic Weapons?
And this article from AIRFORCE MAGAZINE, Jan. 19, 2022 puts a bit of a damper on your suppositions:
Hypersonic Defense - How Hypersonic Weapons Maneuver and What to do About it https://www.airforcemag.com/article/hypersonics-defense/
More articles on the subject.
Don’t believe the hype around Russia’s hypersonic Kinzhal missile - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSPoF7IIefU
The US May Mave Just Taken the Lead in Scramjet Hypersonic Missiles - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vXJU3wADDU
Is America Really Losing the Hypersonic Arms Race?
https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/is-america-really-losing-the-hypersonic-arms-race/
AND https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckrpVT5jS5Q
The Future is Hypersonic: An interview with Hermeus COO Skyler Shuford - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaz7wAHzOR4
The Groundbreaking Hypersonic Missiles America has in the Works https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/the-groundbreaking-hypersonic-missiles-america-has-in-the-works/
The Hypersonic Weapons Russia and China Have in Service -
https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/here-are-all-hypersonic-weapons-russia-and-china-have-in-service/
Too many posters on FR have adopted a “surrender / give-up” attitude so entrenched that it makes me wonder wether they are American or French.
They’ve been at drawn daggers with the PRC since 1948. That suggests that they are in it to win it. But if they should fall to China regardless of their dedication to such abstractions as “freedom,” America is screwed. It will take the microchip factories currently under construction in the US years to go on-line. In the interim, 80% of all chips are made in Taiwan, and 100% of sophisticated electronics use those chips. If Taiwan falls under China’s hegemony, America will be eclipsed, and whatever is done a few years down the line to alleviate the chip shortage will be too little, too late. Yearn to breath free later. Right now, yearn to keep functioning tech.
Apparently, you don’t have the background to evaluate technology. But some facts are simple. We are behind in this area. It doesn’t matter in the near term, which is what this war is about, that we may possibly catch up and eventually move ahead some bright, shiny day. We have nothing now in this space that is remotely functional, and there is little if anything that can be done to defend against tactical hypersonic missiles at this time. That isn’t defeatism; it is just the current situation. What we don’t need is a “Rah! Rah! USA is #1!” Pollyannaish stupidity. We also don’t need article from the MIC, and its dependents, telling us “Don’t worry, be happy!”. The Russians spend a fraction of what we do on defense, and frankly it’s embarrassing that our system is so corrupt that the Russians have caught up in most areas and have surpassed us in a few. We probably spend more on “Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion” across all the services than we do on on hypersonic research.
But let us return to the point of yours that I challenged initially; namely, that the Russians are primitive, stupid, louts incapable achieving much technologically. The hypersonic missile issue was an illustration of why we can’t be dismissive of the Russians. If you knew anything about the history of science and engineering, let alone of the fine arts, you would know that Russia has made major contributions.
Apparently, you don’t have the background to evaluate technology. But some facts are simple. We are behind in this area. It doesn’t matter in the near term, which is what this war is about, that we may possibly catch up and eventually move ahead some bright, shiny day. We have nothing now in this space that is remotely functional, and there is little if anything that can be done to defend against tactical hypersonic missiles at this time. That isn’t defeatism; it is just the current situation. What we don’t need is a “Rah! Rah! USA is #1!” Pollyannaish stupidity. We also don’t need article from the MIC, and its dependents, telling us “Don’t worry, be happy!”. The Russians spend a fraction of what we do on defense, and frankly it’s embarrassing that our system is so corrupt that the Russians have caught up in most areas and have surpassed us in a few. We probably spend more on “Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion” across all the services than we do on on hypersonic research.
But let us return to the point of yours that I challenged initially; namely, that the Russians are primitive, stupid, louts incapable achieving much technologically. The hypersonic missile issue was an illustration of why we can’t be dismissive of the Russians. If you knew anything about the history of science and engineering, let alone of the fine arts, you would know that Russia has made major contributions.
Yes, I know all that.
Now, does it change anything?
First of all, do you think this administration could manage
a dust up with China? I submit this administration would
put our men out there to be slaughtered to diminish this
nation even more.
We have enough Chinese sympathizers to kill any nation.
China would know our every move days in advance.
The era of the carrier fleet might come to screeching end.
The era of our domination over the rest of the world
could be jeopardized either way, go in or not.
We’ve been doing damage to this nation for thirty years
now. It has certainly paid off for China, and has put
us in a grave situation.
There you go again, Mr. I'm Making It Up As I Go Along. Your amnesia is kicking in again. You seem to forget that the Ukes had their primary fighting force in the east put there by NATO and the US and digging in for the last eight years.
So, Mr. Armchair General the occupiers in the east were the Uke Nazis before Putin started taking them out.
Get over it! Start your meds again. The Ruskies are winning!
China had no way of conquering Taiwan back 1948. It is true
that they have been at odds, ever since Chiang Kai-shek
led the old government off the mainland.
It’s only in the last 10 to 20 years that there became the
possibility down the road of a Chinese Mainland remedy to
this situation, by force.
I don’t think I’d term that a resounding demonstration of a
will to survive. I would agree that some hard liners are
probably still very animate at retaining their sovereignty.
The others, maybe yes, maybe no.
Certain people will always be home-sick for the old
country. They let the romanticism take hold, perhaps some
family considerations too, and they loose any contact with
what reunification would truly mean.
What the percentage break-downs on this are, I have no idea.
Yes, the microchip situation is dire. This day was coming
and we allowed it to get to this point. We have operated
like a third world nation for the last 30 years. If it
wasn’t for our legacy from the 20th Century, we would be
an even more also-ran nation than we are now.
Take a look at old photo of one of China’s larger cities
from the 1980s. Then get a photo of that same city from
today.
Then take a look at our major cities from the 1980s, and
another from today.
Guess which nation will show a broken down decay of a
society.
Along with manufacturing went research and development.
Along with manufacturing followed capital. We can’t keep
our schools, highways, city streets, and other government
programs financed. Our business environment isn’t as rosy
as our leaders would have us believe.
We changed the way we gauge inflation. We gamed it, so that
the things we actually need to survive aren’t in there.
This allowed our government to make it seem like things were
going great.
I submit the GDP has been gamed in the same manner. I don’t
think our GDP figures are worth a darn.
They try to make us think that we still have massive
manufacturing. We don’t. Much of what we “manufacture”
here has actually been 90% done overseas. We get the parts
here and put them together.
I bought a Mercury Mariner in 2006. I bought it because
it was manufactured in the USA. In truth all the
components were put together in China and Mexico. The
different combined components were then delivered to the
plant in Kansas City, where the car’s construction was
finalized.
I’m sure our government considered the value of the car
to have been derived from the labor of U. S. Citizens.
What a joke. That’s how it goes clear across the
spectrum.
We have made no headway whatsoever toward moving away
from China. Even in the lead up to a war-time footing,
we just can’t pull the trigger to leave China behind.
In essence, the battles have already been won.
We didn’t win.
Well, you may be right. But it would be better if we never find out because Putin goes crying back to Mother Russia with a scraped knee and a black eye and a bloody nose. And Mother Russia graciously poisons him and makes it look like a heart attack. They’ll have a national Putin day with parades in his honor, annex Mariupol and Crimea, and go in for no further adventurism in the West. And China will take the hint, perhaps. Hard to say, but that’s the best chance of it. Unfortunately, the war in Ukraine keeps on going and going and going, and neither Putin nor China are learning anything from it, except that the Biden Administration is all bark and big spending.
This Administration is not to be relied upon. Certainly not in a full-blown war. What I’m hoping for is to avoid a dust-up with China by having Ukraine be another Russian Afghanistan/Vietnam, and thereby deter China, at least for now. Hope springs eternal. Reality is a b!tch.
I wouldn’t mind your Putin scenario, but I don’t care for
the reward for their treachery.
In the 1980s, we were all about seeing people freed from
Soviet domination. Hundreds of millions of people were freed
up just shortly after Reagan left office.
Now some of us are thinking what a great idea it would be to
send people back under Russian domination.
Remember, we had a mass psychosis that put us under Obama
and Biden’s control. I’m not convinced people who live
in those areas today, really know what they are bargaining
for.
Russia is not going to let one whisper of dissent out.
If Russia gets those regions for it’s work, why wouldn’t
China think it would get rewarded also, with Taiwan?
I agree with your synopsis here.
We agree on 99% of the things going on, so don’t think I’m
antagonistic to everything you support.
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