Posted on 08/31/2022 1:27:16 AM PDT by Cathi
“Is it too much to expect Europe to take care of their own defense, including paying for it?”
This was OUR PLAN...the corrupt, evil “permanent deep state” new world order government who stole the last election and has been destroying our country ever since.
The plans for using Ukraine as the tool for us to take Putin/Russia down was instigated during the Obama administration. We deliberately overthrew their elected government (like we routinely do with the NGOs we finance and promoting government opposition figures.)
“We put $5 billion into Ukraine and we aren’t leaving. F_ck the EU!” That is a verbatim conversation Victoria Nuland had that we have on tape.
Our plan was to train Ukraine’s nationalistic forces to NATO standards (which we did for 7 full years) erect strong fortifications and then as the “Rand Plan” we paid for clearly states use Ukraine to destabilize and weaken Russia and bring about “regime change.” We were instrumental in the INCREASED Ukrainian firing on the Donbass which began Feb. 14 (a full 10 days before Russia crossed into Ukraine and invaded.)
By the way, we have a similar proxy war plan for China. Our two biggest adversaries/competitors were becoming too strong and we needed these plans to hold on to our worldwide hegemony that had begun slipping away. (And now is ending.)
NATO are wimps...except for Poland they were not going to attack anybody.
We own this and we will pay an extraordinary high price for our stupidity, our hubris, and our desperation.
Why, exactly, would anyone in their right mind seek out Scott Ritter as a source of information?
Answer: They wouldn't.
And according to her you are low-IQ if you don’t seek out such people for information.
Yeah, like saying it was all over and down to just a "mop up operation" back in March?
They're Leftist / anti-Western propagandists. Nothing more.
Not for me
Ukrop atrocity laden handling of the east historically counters your long list
Plus our foreign policy about Russia has been off rails in general a generation or more but specifically since we attacked Serbia in a war to help Muslims over Christians and crazy Croats who could kill bad as Serbs could
You are still living in the Cold War
Z is an autocrat too but poorer and less power over his oligarchs
Which sadly we now have too in tech and info disseminate
It’s a system that poorly serves it nation in Russia as well but Pootie has power over his
BS meter 1-10 is 12.
I think I somewhat understand where some of these people are coming from.
After being scarred by the neocon extreme interventionism of the past 30+ years, they have rightfully rejected it and adopted an extreme reaction. That reaction being extreme isolationism.
Ideological purity is difficult. Both can be taken too far, and the world is complicated. The people must learn to not be manipulated into supporting every hairbrained idea the government produces. Unfortunately, the public remains steadfast in the refusal to carefully observe what the US government is doing. The American people allowed themselves to get snookered into supporting Clinton’s, Dubya’s, and Obama’s multiple interventions.
Here are my policy dream positions:
-No permanent overseas US bases and conversion of them all to revolving training grounds for all partners.
-Full support and defense help for functional democratic countries only.
-Selling arms to ONLY those countries who need defense and not used for attacks.
-Weighing carefully any support or help to countries threatened with invasion or attack.
-In the event of trouble in the Middle East, limit “help” to public discussion of what’s wrong with BOTH sides.
-Condemnation of attempts to attack or invade territory of another.
-In the event of catastrophe in unstable parts of world, limit “help” to escaping civilians and food/water/medicine.
-Above all, NO overthrows, NO elective invasions, NO attacks unless attacked first, and NO using military to nation-build.
These are all dreams, but they don’t have to be. Foreign policy has never been something most Americans cared about. It’s time for that to change.
“They’re Leftist”
Seems to me that the Left in both the US and Europe LOVES the bloodbath in Ukraine - they don’t.
The goal was to turn Russia into what Ukraine has been -- a country that globalists could get a stronghold in and work with corrupt oligarchs to make a fortune.
That is funny. All of our NATO "partners" charge a nice sized duty on our exports to Europe but we let their crap in almost tariff free. Nice try, fail.
Hmmm, foreign agent for whoom?
“Perhaps your media has failed you, by putting on people who flat-out lie to you - and you don’t realize that yet?”
NATO should have been disbanded in the mid 1990’s. Globalists pushed for it to expand. Now look at the mess. Anyone with half brain knew keeping after the fall of the USSR was both stupid and dangerous.
No worries. President Trump and MAGA will change that.
What would you classify US, a signatory to NATO, offensive war against Serbia to be?
Why would they listen to Scott Ritter, because he alone was correct in his assessment of Iraq before the US attacked them over non-existent WMD’s and nuclear material.
Of course Europe should be taking care of its own defense.
NATO was formed when most of Europe was near-bankrupt and in complete ruins.
“Europe is better known as our “vassals.””
Oh, what UTTER revisionist balderdash.
Post-war Europe didn’t have the resources to resist the Soviets if they decided to go eastwards. America NEEDED Europe to be capable of that resistance.
Once ICBMs came into play, and Russia thought about stationing nukes in places like Cuba, America needed to do the same.
So, there was a symbiotic relationship. USA relied on the inability of Russia to take on two continents at once, and Europe needed America because it was broke.
“The plans for using Ukraine as the tool for us to take Putin/Russia down was instigated during the Obama administration.”
Oh, do give over. Anyone in America still wibbling on about the Russian boogeyman in 2012-13 was reacting to the MULTIPLE invasions Russia had already embarked on, not desperate to smash an enemy that had been dead and buried for twenty years.
“We put $5 billion into Ukraine and we aren’t leaving. F_ck the EU!”
Ah, you fell for it. The Soviet spin, repackaging of 20 years’ worth of $5.1bn investment as a short term bung to instigate regime change.
“Since 1992, the government has spent about $5.1 billion to support democracy-building programs in Ukraine, Thompson said, with money flowing mostly from the Department of State via U.S. Agency for International Development, as well as the departments of Defense, Energy, Agriculture and others. The United States does this with hundreds of other countries.”
Totally true. The UK does the same thing too, it’s called “soft power”. Russia didn’t do very much of it, until Putin’s toadies pointed out to him that the same methods that promote westernisation, can be used to sell Russkiyi Mir.
“Our plan was to train Ukraine’s nationalistic forces to NATO standards (which we did for 7 full years) erect strong fortifications and then as the “Rand Plan” we paid for clearly states use Ukraine to destabilize and weaken Russia and bring about “regime change.” “
And, ticking yet another “it’s Russian bullshit, easily spotted” box off the bingo card... Destabilize and weaken the country that for YEARS pro-Russian weirdos were saying was overwhelmingly brilliant at everything and warning us all “don’t poke the bear”??? Hey, do you need a spare London Bridge, because I’ve got three to sell.
I do wish the Russians would make their minds up. One minute Ukraine’s backward, corrupt, incompetent, and will fold in five minutes when the first wave of Russkie tanks turn up... the next they’re getting fierce resistance to political interdiction in 2014 and to military invasion in 2022 - Russia can’t possibly have screwed up its math, so its gotta be the Americans’ fault!!!
“We own this and we will pay an extraordinary high price for our stupidity, our hubris, and our desperation.”
Well, SOME people will own it - when the dust settles and they find themselves in the same pit of ignominy as those after World War 2 who’d spent the early years insisting that we should cut a peace deal with Hitler (and the Jews had it coming) before pulling the same stupid argument in order to justify decades of a total menace called the Soviet Union.
Yup, when that happens you’ll be ruing your stupidity, hubris and desperation. Because those who did it in World War 2 at least had the excuse they didn’t know better; nobody alive today can argue they don’t know exactly what Russia and Germany did in World War 2 AND HOW THE APPEASERS ENABLED IT ALL.
A response to genocide against Kosovo Albanians- all teenage/adult males in some towns executed.
It was also a reaction to the Serbs having captured some UN peacekeepers, as I recall.
Maybe America overreacted. I mean, America overreacts to everything all the ruddy time, so it wouldn’t be unusual.
Scott Ritter said back in March that this war in Ukraine had *stopped* NATO expansion that had not yet occurred - now he’s saying the NATO expansion is what caused it to begin with.
Quite a propagandist.
There were at least three known separate incidents where he was caught - twice in 2001 and once in 2009. The timing for the incidents in Spring 2001 obviously don't coincide with your false Iraq narrative - that would have had to involve time travel if they were.
So that makes Ritter wrong with his Iraq assessments
Interesting to know you feel that way
Were you here in 02-05 in the pro amnesty too
Since you want to jump right to personal
I can play that game too but i try to resist unless provoked or if you have ovaries
It’s unseemly to be rough on a woman knowingly where I come from
I’m not to fight you
Your homepage is very sweet
I apologize
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.