Posted on 12/27/2022 6:15:27 AM PST by Eleutheria5
“Remember,I Led Three Lives?”
I do not, but this looks like the TV version of the radio show I was listening to. The names match and the time period matches.
Thanks for the heads up. Never knew about the TV show.
I’m sorry you characterize my objection as “getting p!ssy”. If I refrain from getting “p!ssy” when I point out a flawed assertion, will this somehow make the world all better?
As for the “party BS,” we didn’t discuss party politics in this whole thread. All my remarks were addressed to the fact that US intelligence community is too odious to be tolerated anymore. If they’ll whitewash Nazi criminals and enlist their help in the cold war, there are no limits to their depravity. They must be reconstituted. That was all I said. That’s neither Republican nor Democrat. It might be Libertarian.
As for your last remark, it makes no sense. The past was not my doing, either good or bad, and I have no power over it, except to study it, find out the truth, and insist on that truth. My sole power is the present. So is yours and everyone’s. What ever occurred in the past is a legacy, both good and bad, to be learned from and amended for by action in the present oriented towards the future.
Oh no you very much got pissy, right off the bat, here you are:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4119131/posts?page=19#19
What do you mean “we,” Kemosabe.
That’s pissy.
And you very much got into party BS, slightly later:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4119131/posts?page=36#36
The Dems want a dictatorship.
There you go, all the Dems fault. The GOP has participated in just as much dirty BS as the Dems. Remember Ike put Von Braun in charge of our rocket program.
Problem is “all your remarks” are missing the mark. Until you’re willing to accept that the American government, OUR government, has been choosing expediency over morality from day 1 you aren’t understanding anything, you aren’t presenting anything, and you can’t solve anything.
This is where the WE really comes in. WE need to acknowledge that WE have this history. That 250 years ago WE decided to allow slavery to exist here in spite of our big talk about all men being created equal. 200 years ago WE gave big money to known crooks to build a railroad. 70 years ago WE dry cleaned a bunch of Nazis to jump start our military development and our spy agency. 60 years ago WE started supporting dictators because they had the right enemies. 20 years ago WE let Turkey bully us into not giving the Kurds a country.
WE keep choosing this path over and over. And if you can’t admit that you can’t learn from it. And you can’t really set us up for amending actions oriented to the future. We can’t fix problems we don’t take ownership of. So if this: “What do you mean ‘we,’ Kemosabe” is your response to WE, then you’re taking ownership, and you ain’t fixin anything.
“Oh no you very much got pissy, right off the bat, here you are:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4119131/posts?page=19#19
What do you mean “we,” Kemosabe.”
That’s pissy.
That’s an old joke from Mad Magazine. I think you are getting more than a little p!ssy yourself. Or petty. Whatever.
“And you very much got into party BS, slightly later:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4119131/posts?page=36#36
The Dems want a dictatorship.”
There you go, all the Dems fault.”
That is the Dems’ present agenda. Whose fault it was is not my concern. The fact is, they are moving towards dictatorship right now, and exploiting a twisted interpretation of history to do so, one of which you seem to have swallowed yourself, although I’ll reserve judgment on that, not knowing you very well.
” The GOP has participated in just as much dirty BS as the Dems. Remember Ike put Von Braun in charge of our rocket program.”
Von Braun was a rocket scientist, not a Nazi war criminal. Nothing dirty about recruiting scientists to do science that doesn’t involve evil experiments on human beings, or other immorality.
“That 250 years ago WE decided to allow slavery to exist here in spite of our big talk about all men being created equal.”
That’s exactly backward chronologically. Slavery already existed in what became the United States long before the Declaration. It also existed in the West Indies, Africa, the Roman and Greek Empires, and even in Egypt. The founders of America decided 250 years ago to declare that all men were created equal and endowed with inalienable rights, knowing full well that their personal lives were a contradiction to that declaration, because several of them owned slavery. And they declared it anyway.
Thomas Jefferson and his colleagues dedicated the new nation to that proposition as an aspiration. Had they made some half-a@@ed attempt to abolish slavery while fighting the British, North and South Carolina, as well as Georgia, Delaware and New York, all slave-owning colonies at that time, and Rhode Island, where the ships arrived bearing their human cargoes, would have refused to join this “revolution” and would have turned on the rebels and finked them out to King George. Was it a contradiction? Very well. It was a contradiction. But a new nation is vast. It contains multitudes, especially when it’s only a possibility in the making.
I suggest you read JS Mills’ Thoughts on Representative Government. Democracy and the rights of man and all that is an evolutionary process, and for starters, the populace whose voice is proposed be made sovereign, must be taken as they are found.
200 years ago WE gave big money to known crooks to build a railroad.
200 years ago, my great, great, great grandfather lived in a small town in the Pale of Settlement in Eastern Europe. Leave him out of this. I’m no longer so young as I once was, but I’m nowhere near 200.
70 years ago WE dry cleaned a bunch of Nazis to jump start our military development and our spy agency. 60 years ago WE started supporting dictators because they had the right enemies.
60 years ago, I was two years old. 70 years ago, I wasn’t born yet. Were you?
20 years ago WE let Turkey bully us into not giving the Kurds a country.”
Since when is all this dependent on the United States? Neither Turkey, Syria, Iraq nor Iran allowed the Kurds to have their own state, and the Kurdish population is indigenous to a contiguous area overlapping all of them, and also a small chunk of Russia, if memory serves, and that “country” was not America’s to give. The British and the French made that call 100 years ago, and it was a bad call. But America was a mere spectator to it, and it was never up to the US, anymore than who controlled Vietnam was up to the US, or whether or not there would be a Jewish State was up to the UK.
But 20 years ago, Dubya was about to have his war in Iraq, and didn’t need to p!ss off Turkey, right next to Iraq and also a NATO member.
How old are you, anyway?
“WE keep choosing this path over and over. And if you can’t admit that you can’t learn from it. And you can’t really set us up for amending actions oriented to the future. We can’t fix problems we don’t take ownership of. So if this: “What do you mean ‘we,’ Kemosabe” is your response to WE, then you’re taking ownership, and you ain’t fixin anything.”
Honestly, I don’t even know if I’ll ever see the US again. I care very deeply about it, having been born and raised there, but I’m here in Israel with two of my sons and seven of my grandkids, and unlikely to visit there again any time soon. But I’ve trained myself to think rationally. What you’re saying is mystical blather. It doesn’t matter what you “own” or don’t “own” about the past. It’s the decisions you make in the present, based on knowledge and experience from the past.
For example, a fellow named Shepherd, shortly after the Revolutionary War, was out on militia duty with his drinking buddies. They encountered some Delaware Indians, all devout Christians. They informed the Delaware that they were endangered from yahoos in the countryside, looking to kill Indians of any kind, and offered to take them back to their reserve. The Delawares consented to this, and also to being tied hand and foot by their fellow Christians for their own safety. Later that night, Mr. Shepherd showed up with his pals and a rival tribe of Indians, all armed with clubs, and they murdered those Delaware in their sleep, which is why there are no more Delaware Indians. Shameful, disgusting thing to do, but neither I nor you had anything to do with it.
This entire question of collective guilt is dealt with in the Talmud. In one verse of scripture it says “Children shall not be put to death for the sins of their fathers”. In another it says “He appointeth the sins of the fathers upon the children”. The sages resolve this contradiction thusly. The second verse refers to where the children (or later generations) take up the sins of their fathers in their hands (i.e., repeats those sins), the other is where they refrain from taking the sins of their fathers in their hands.
So even if you’re Mr. Shepherd’s descendant, don’t go tying up Indians and bludgeoning them to death, even if they let you. Instead, visit their casinos and help yourself to some firewater and cheese doodles while placing your bets. How, Kemosabe.
The purpose of the CIA all along was to look after the interests of the US elites, and to feed them relevant investment information.
You also completely neglect to mention that the US and England allied themselves with Communist Russia against the Nazis, a very cynical, but necessary move, since Hitler was right then in the midst of invading Russia, and he would have had the vast resources of that huge land mass at his disposal, had they allowed Stalin to founder. But Stalin was a mass murdering, evil SOB in his own right, and it behooved them to prop up the one SOB so he could help put paid to the second even worse one. Foolishly, FDR and then Truman trusted Stalin, who had foolishly trusted Hitler, to hold democratic elections in the Baltic, Balkan regions and also Poland and Hungary and their conquests in Germany. And thus Stalin grabbed half of Europe, begetting the Cold War, and the use of Nazis in the CIA in that war. Had Truman heeded Churchill’s warnings and done something about Stalin’s land grabs, and had the Rosenbergs not fed Stalin’s scientists nuclear secrets, things might have turned out differently, and there would have been no employing Nazis as intelligence assets.
But if I had wheels, I’d be a trolly. And despite the dire threat that communism poses to the free world, I still say that the CIA delende est, for whitewashing those Nazis and being career a@@-holes every chance they got from that day to this.
“Look at reality. The Dems keep harping on the past, slavery, Jim Crow, etc.”
The position of the Democratic party on slavery was “For.” Democrats legislated Jim Crow laws. Democrats segregated the races in America.
Shifting the blame, it’s as old as Adam (she gave me the apple) and Eve (the serpent misled me). The stupid party allows the Democrats to shift the blame for their sins onto America.
I would have made the same decision.
“You know who else pushed for “National Socialism”? Joe Stalin. He rejected Lenin and Trotsky’s Internationalism in favor of “Socialism in One Country”, he only used COMINTERN to advance the traditional geopolitical goals of the Czars, which was Russian dominance. That’s why he regularly purged the members of Communist Parties throughout Europe.”
That is very interesting.
I view Stalin as a Georgian who was in charge of the Russian communist empire. That creates a little cognitive dissonance for me. I get over it by remembering that people and history are more complicated than the simple concepts that many people hold.
A funny story. Stalin murdered millions of people for Lenin, with Lenin’s approval. Stalin got his legitimacy by being one of Lenin’s lieutenants. Lenin’s health declined. Stalin consolidated power. Lenin complained that Stalin “had been rude to him.” By that time, it was too late for Lenin’s complaint to matter. One mass murderer could afford “to be rude” to another mass murderer.
Brennen?
And therefore, the Democrats are not exploiting the whole slavery thing by obsessing on the past in order to grab power? The remedy for obsessing on the past to grab power is not to obsess more on the past. The past that they’re obsessing on is mythological. Slavery was not such a cut and dried issue even back then. The civil war was not fought in order to end slavery, either. That was the result a few years later, but nobody put on a blue uniform in order to free slaves.
Jamhuri Day Special: Jomo Kenyatta talks to White Settlers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dyeaTk8S-Y
I agree that the future should be our major focus. However, we must also rebut Democratic charges today. Their attacks on America give them an unwarranted moral legitimacy. It must be undermined immediately, not decades from now. The truth will not win out, if it is always decades late in arriving.
We must recognize the Democratic party’s modus operandi of accusing others of their own sins. When they make an accusation, as recent as an accusation of a coup, we should recognize that they committed a coup and/or intend to commit a coup. When they fault America for slavery, their role in maintaining it should be immediately thrown in their face.
Sometimes the only way to sensitize a bully is to bloody his nose. The next time a liberal utters the words “conspiracy theorist” I will ask if they ever called Hillary a conspiracy theorist, and if not, why not. (Reminder, Hillary Clinton held press conferences detailing “a vast right-wing conspiracy.”)
“First thing is, get rid of the intelligence community’s culture, that... believes that the ends justify the means. If that means demolishing the old intelligence edifice and starting over, so be it.
It would really mean getting rid of an intelligence apparatus at all, at least as we know it. You can’t have a modern intelligence operation unless it’s filled to the gills with people who believe the ends justifies the means.
Who else would lie to their allies, lie to the public, and lie to all their friends and family, day after day, for years, and decades? People with a conscience can’t do it.
The thing that scares me about the present set up is that it seems to view the public that they’re supposedly protecting as the enemy. They’re interfering in elections, surveilling people who make a ruckus at school board meetings, censoring information, spreading mis-information, and criminalizing protestors. But mass shootings at schools and in malls? They do the three-monkey shuffle and let it happen. Deadly new diseases? They just can’t seem to figure out where they come from even when the answer’s staring them in the face.
I get it that spooks are in the business of doing nasty stuff. But they’re doing it to the American people! Not the Chinese, or terrorists, or Russia. And Nazis embedded in their culture from way back would explain a lot of it.
As for ends justifying means, there are fuzzy edges to that where it is acceptable, but they’re not fuzzing any edges. They’re doing it wholesale all the time to the American People. Brandon’s just the tip of the iceberg.
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