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‘It was the wrong choice’: Retired ATF agents question commander’s decision to raid Mt. Carmel; adamant Branch Davidians fired first
kwtx ^ | Feb. 28, 2023 | Gordon Collier

Posted on 03/01/2023 3:42:27 PM PST by PROCON

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To: PROCON

There was no need for a raid. The Texas Rangers could have taken care of any criminal acts with the BDs


21 posted on 03/01/2023 4:07:29 PM PST by SecAmndmt (Cv19 vaccines are Phase 2 of the CCP bioweapon)
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To: PROCON

Robert White and Blake Boteler, accomplices to murder.


22 posted on 03/01/2023 4:08:44 PM PST by MileHi ((Liberalism is an ideology of parasites, hypocrites, grievance mongers, victims, and control freaks.)
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To: All

Remember it was GHW Bush that started all this crap before the end of his term, so it wasn’t all Clintons fault, he merely followed through what was already in the works.


23 posted on 03/01/2023 4:10:40 PM PST by eastforker (All in, I'm all Trump,what you got!)
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To: eastforker

Not a dime’s worth of difference between Bush and Clinton.

Should’ve voted for Perot.


24 posted on 03/01/2023 4:11:22 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: BipolarBob

They wanted the firefight for budget reasons.
Needed a firefight to justify having a paramilitary force on the books.


25 posted on 03/01/2023 4:12:09 PM PST by Reily
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To: PROCON

Since when is it illegal to “stockpile” weapons? Define “stockpile”. How many weapons is a “stockpile”? Why couldn’t they wait them out before resorting to “my gun’s bigger than yours”?


26 posted on 03/01/2023 4:15:11 PM PST by Rowdyone (Vigilence)
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To: PROCON

It started under Bush, just like Somalia.


27 posted on 03/01/2023 4:26:24 PM PST by Theoria
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To: blackdog

Federal forces, of types, must go.


28 posted on 03/01/2023 4:28:44 PM PST by freedomjusticeruleoflaw (Strange that a man with his wealth would have to resort to prostitution.)
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To: Lurker

“Illegally…
…stockpiling…
……weapons…”

Yeah… I remember seeing that in the constitution, where it says you’re not allowed to stockpile weapons…

So that was their excuse to murder a bunch of American citizens.


29 posted on 03/01/2023 4:29:31 PM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: Track9
security detail problems

yep

I also think it was a test to check the general public's reaction

30 posted on 03/01/2023 4:29:54 PM PST by SisterK (the final variant is communism)
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To: PROCON

“...for illegally stockpiling weapons...”

Since when is “stockpiling weapons” a crime? I need to know because I’m a collector.


31 posted on 03/01/2023 4:32:15 PM PST by Bonemaker (invictus maneo)
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To: TalBlack
“knock on the door to talk or send in without any provocation”

It been a while but as I recall David Koresh was a jogger, he went jogging almost daily in the countryside. There was a big deal made at the time, why didn't they take him during one of those runs.

32 posted on 03/01/2023 4:41:10 PM PST by Jolla
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To: NFHale

Kinda like the colonists were “illegally stockpiling weapons”. Leading directly to the battles of Lexington and Concord which were government gun grabs.


33 posted on 03/01/2023 4:48:27 PM PST by Locomotive Breath
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To: blackdog

the feds shot Weaver’s dog in Naples Idaho (I live up here and hunt on Ruby Ridge sometimes), then they continued onto family and Weaver’s friend.


34 posted on 03/01/2023 4:48:38 PM PST by davidb56
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To: Locomotive Breath

Amazing how history repeats itself isn’t it…


35 posted on 03/01/2023 4:50:53 PM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: Atomic Vomit

They could have arrest him on one of his solitary visits to town. They wanted a fight and made sure there was one.


36 posted on 03/01/2023 4:52:40 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet (Biden not only suffers fools and criminals, he appoints them to positions of responsibility. )
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To: NFHale

The ATF fired first and admitted it at trial. They killed the dog on the way in.

L


37 posted on 03/01/2023 4:56:40 PM PST by Lurker (Peaceful coexistence with the Left is not possible. Stop pretending that it is.)
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To: Bonemaker
Since when is “stockpiling weapons” a crime?

I believe in ATF-speak, owning a firearm is 'stockpiling', kind of like a 'cache' (maybe 200 rounds?) of ammunition.

38 posted on 03/01/2023 4:57:01 PM PST by PROCON (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: PROCON
On Feb. 28, 1993, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tabaco and Firearms launched a raid at the Branch Davidian compound near the community of Elk, about 13 miles outside Waco.

This was extensively covered here on FR in the 2000 trial.

The crucial part of the trial not covered were the autopsy reports of those who died.

The autopsy reports paint a very different picture of what happened than the official narrative.

One small example is that everyone of the BDs who were killed in the initial ATF raid all had the projectiles that killed them still in their bodies.

In contrast, none of the people filled in the final assault, who the coroner concluded died of gunshot wounds, had the projectiles that killed them inside their bodies.

Not a single one.

Taking the autopsy reports into account, this looks very much like a false flag operation.

Bottom line is that we don't really know who these people were or what really happened.

39 posted on 03/01/2023 5:04:38 PM PST by Ol' Dan Tucker (For 'tis the sport to have the engineer hoist with his own petard., -- Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 4)
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To: PROCON

I remember seeing analyses of bullet holes as to whether they were entry or exit holes that indicated that the Dravidians might not have fired at all. Even the four ex Clinton guards that were killed were killed by friendly fire because the bullet holes on that roof around them were all entry holes.


40 posted on 03/01/2023 5:08:13 PM PST by arthurus (covfefe )-I-()
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