Posted on 04/29/2024 4:50:00 AM PDT by MtnClimber
If we are to reach the lofty goals of windmill and solar farm driven energy sufficiency by 2030 or 2050 or whenever, battery storage of sufficient size to at least power a small city for days or weeks would have to be at least in a demonstration mode to show the feasibility of battery back supported grid. So far we haven’t seen anything bigger than Musk’s huge battery farms that supposedly could provide an hour or two of backup to the grid. In Australia one of these battery farms caught fire and burned for three days before being contained. The current capacity and reliability of the best battery technology is far from meeting these lofty goals in the even not too distant future.
“If we get to that point it is going to be mass starvation.
If we can’t get food to markets, and people don’t have money to buy that food, that is exactly what is going to happen.
I don’t think that is hyperbolic. People don’t realize how close we are to that in this country of 330 million people. They won’t be able to grow food.
Personal electricity consumption is going to be the least of anyone’s worries. It is going to be food and potable water.”
Yep, exactly right. This is where we are headed very soon and everyone is going to get caught with their pants down.
And Chikensoup, to answer your question we should be worried, we should be discussing this reality. But there are two problems. One half this country believe the lies about how a perfect utopia is being created, and the other half still insist “It will never happen here” like most of this board here.
Both are going to get caught with their pants down... Right now the folks who are ahead of the game are moving to the RV lifestyle with small scale solar and portable wind power. They will be able to live a better lifestyle than most, and will be able to chase resources as needed.
If one reads that article, and there is little in it that is surprising to me-it is there for all to see.
Everyone wants to kick it down the road.
Next election cycle.
Until their fat income stream disappears.
Until their lives end.
I am hoping my life ends before we see the fruit this insanity is going to bear, but unfortunately, unless I suffer trauma or get an unexpected health issue, I will probably live to see it.
It isn’t that I want to die. It is just that my time left on earth is likely a minor fraction of the life I have been fortunate enough to have lived to this point.
Oops! No gas at the gas stations because it isn't being produced, and the gas can't be transported there because there is no gas for the trucks. And no money to buy the gas when it gets there, unless you have gold or can barter.
I don't know if they are going to be able to chase the resources, though I like the idea.
I am beginning to wish I were more familiar with horses.
Maybe Biden could just get a law passed....or something.
“Oops! No gas at the gas stations because it isn’t being produced, and the gas can’t be transported there because there is no gas for the trucks.”
Yes you are right. It will indeed come to that point. But it will get bad for a long time before it gets to that point and you will still fare better than most. When it does come to that point we will be in caveman stage again anyhow. That is when you find a safer place to park with natural resources available for personal survival. You will still have shelter and minimal power at least and won’t have to live in a cave. And the industrius with mechanical knowledge will know how to make the vehicle run such as wood gas. Or even steam power. Just like third world countries there will be no EPA or Government regulations to worry about being enforced anymore anyhow.
Here is the perspective about horses. A small steam engine adapted into a vehicle is still enough power to move it along at 15 miles an hour in low gear. 15 miles an hour is still better than only 20 miles a day for a horse. :)
Here is a vehicle with only a 6.5 horsepower engine and it gets a hundred miles to the gallon. But it doesn’t go fast of course, but it goes...
A small wood fired steam engine could be adapted to do the same thing in any vehicle. I know your capabilities and knowledge so it would be no problem for those like us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSc9CVyje5Y
“...about storage in GW instead of GWh.”
In responding to a thread I did some research regarding the amount of energy from windmills vs. nuclear vs. dams. The windmill output was either in peak MW or “supply X amount of homes”. The nuke and dams was usually in MWh or number of homes.”
I think that is to show wind power in a better light and/or to make direct comparisons difficult. One article I read said that it takes 5 times as much wind power MW to equal the same MW output of a dam. Probably estimating an annual average, factoring in that the wind isn’t blowing all the time?
I will check out the links, thank you!
It works better in a 4X4 that has a low range transfer case option. :)
I agree. My solar panel array could be advertised as 20kW and be 100% true -- but you have to factor in that I get an average of 5 peak solar hours per day. So on average I get 100kWh of solar power which is awesome --- as long as:
1. I have need for no more than 20kW to utilize it during the daytime hours (i.e. my home has so many appliances running and lights on at the same time to consume the 20kW of power coming in at high noon),
2) Or have battery storage capacity to store it for later.
Another factor is DC to AC conversion. Because dams and coal plants are always considered part of the grid, they're stated in AC power. With solar it's often stated in DC power to inflate the #'s -- there's a conversion loss they hope you overlook. In my case, there's about 5% to 10% conversion loss when going from the DC power generated by solar to AC power supplied to my home's electrical panels. If I have major appliances running while charging my EV -- the most continuous AC power my inverters can produce is 18kW (anything over that and my inverters have to pull the difference from the grid). When that happens, I'm pulling close to 20kW from solar and/or battery stack (10% loss during the DC to AC conversion). But in reality I'm getting only 18kW of useful power (AC power) that my home needs.
Heh, that guy looked like a critter...all the better! I have to watch it in depth later!
I have Krell Class A power amplifiers (& some tubes) in my audio system. Wind/solar is not going to work for me - I need a nuke plant in the vicinity.
Right, deep cycle batteries are old school. Big heavy thick plates. Automotive start batteries, traditional lead acid or calcium “maintenance free” batteries are constructed differently, with many more thin plates. This increases surface area to allow for greater instantaneous current supply necessary for cold cranking frozen engines. But they will be destroyed in short order if placed into steady drains and deep discharges.
These deep cycle batteries, coming from an automotive guy takes some getting used to. I never let my truck batteries get down to 12.0 volts! I’d have a coronary, that just ain’t done.
Thing with long series strings, each individual cell always has to be on the same sheet of music in terms of temperature, state of charge, internal resistance, age, and preferably lot #’s.
Those 3 year old used batts, 4 12V in series mentioned - means 24 individual cells, without a history I’d not try that. If they were brand new and commissioned correctly it should work. It may be required to boost charge them in pairs, I seem to remember some manufacturers don’t recommend charging that many cells in series, probably for reasons mentioned.
“Those 3 year old used batts, 4 12V in series mentioned - means 24 individual cells, without a history I’d not try that. If they were brand new and commissioned correctly it should work. It may be required to boost charge them in pairs, I seem to remember some manufacturers don’t recommend charging that many cells in series, probably for reasons mentioned.”
Huge problem with batteries hooked up in series is they need to be rotated in the bank pretty regularly. They never charge or discharge at the same rate in that series. More batteries in a series the more often they need to be rotated. 4- 12v in a series would need to be rotated every month to keep from killing two of the four pretty quickly.
This is why when we lived off grid I would only have a 12v parallel system. And... The hookups have to be correct for proper evenly distributed charge/draw on each battery. Even then they still need to be rotated around in the bank every couple months as regular maintenance.
And it has the advantage of being able to hook up your vehicle to the bank and shove some juice in it in an emergency. I made a portable charger with a small 6.5 Hp engine and car alternator that I could use to put some in my bank if needed or jump cars with, and it doubled as a portable DC arc welder. You can only have this redundancy with a 12v system.
“Heh, that guy looked like a critter...”
Yeah they are swamp critters. lol
Those are short, but if you dig around more for that 6.5 hp towtruck there are some others. :)
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