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Sherman the Pyromaniac
LewRockwell.com ^ | June 21, 2002 | Gail Jarvis

Posted on 06/21/2002 7:41:57 AM PDT by Aurelius

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To: MrNeutron1962
Hey! I don't keep my 3-legged dawg tied up! Watch the stereotypes!
81 posted on 06/22/2002 7:18:00 AM PDT by agrandis
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To: Non-Sequitur
Robert Toombs was a wise and foreseeing man. Hindsight is easy for you. Jefferson Davis had a difficult decision to make: let the Yanks re-arm the fort and begin a slow occupation of the South, or stop them. That makes him a fool, or allowa a silly a** like you to call him a fool from your chair of ease? What other men in history were "fools" in your eyes for making hard decisions that you didn't have to make? Were the leaders of the Boers in South Africa fools, perhaps? Maybe General Macarthur is a fool in your eyes, too?
82 posted on 06/22/2002 7:23:23 AM PDT by agrandis
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To: agrandis
And your quote from Sherman is nice and flowery, and may be a statement in defense of war, but still is not an excuse for war CRIMES. There is never an excuse for war crimes - they are always unjustifiable. Americans used to always understand that, and many northerners used to just deny that Sherman committed them, rather than to try to defend his war crimes.

What a Dark Age this country is experiencing.

83 posted on 06/22/2002 7:27:59 AM PDT by agrandis
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To: Non-Sequitur
Post #83 was supposed to be to you...
84 posted on 06/22/2002 7:31:40 AM PDT by agrandis
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To: Non-Sequitur
I think you need to check your timeline. Chambersburg was burnt in July 1864 while Sheridan went through the Shenandoah Valley in September and October of 1864.

Thanks for the comment. I had seen reference on the web (that I can't find at the moment) that Sheridan had given the order and Hunter's troops complied. Doesn't mean that Sheridan himself was in the Shenandoah Valley himself in this particular instance.

Here are some comments by Confederate General Early on why he ordered the destruction of Chambersburg, as reported in Northern newspapers.

General Hunter in his recent raid to Lynchburg, caused wide-spread ruin wherever he passed. I followed him about sixty miles, and language would fail me to describe the terrible desolation which marked his path. Dwelling-houses and other buildings were almost universally burned; fences, implements of husbandry, and everything available for the sustenance of human life, so far as he could do so, were everywhere destroyed. We found many, very many, families of helpless women and children who had been suddenly turned out of doors, and their houses and contents condemned to the flames; and in some cases where they had rescued some extra clothing, the soldiers had torn the garments into narrow strips, and strewn them upon the ground for us to witness when we arrived in pursuit.

General Hunter has been much censured by the voice of humanity everywhere, and he richly deserves it all; yet he has caused scarcely one-tenth part of the devastation which has been committed immediately in sight of the headquarters of General Meade and General Grant, in Eastern Virginia. For example--in Culpepper County, where General Meade held his headquarters, almost every house and building has been burned; very few have escaped the flames; and utter desolation is seen on every hand. Even a small tannery in sight of General Meade's headquarters, where a poor man tanned a few hides for the neighbors on the shares, to furnish shoes for the poor women and children who were necessarily left there, was burned by the army, and the half tanned skins drawn from the bats and cut into narrow strips to prevent the possibility of their being useful.

Recently they have burned the house of Andrew Hunter, near Charlestown, with all its contents, requiring his family to stand by and witness the destruction of their homes. They did the same with the house of Edmund J. Lee, near Shepardstown, and repeated it on the buildings of Hon. Alex H. Boteler.

Such things of course, cannot be long endured, and must provoke retaliation whenever it is possible. Accordingly I lately sent General McCausland to Pennsylvania. I did not wish to retaliate in Maryland, because we all hope and believe that Maryland will eventually become a member of the Southern Confederacy. I therefore sent him to Pennsylvania, with written instructions to demand of the authorities of Chambersburg, a sum which would be sufficient to indemnify those gentlemen, and also pay some other damages which I specified in the order; and in default of their compliance, he was instructed to burn the town, which I learn was done. I was very reluctant, and it was a most disagreeable duty, to inflict such damage on these citizens; but I deemed it an imperitive necessity to show the people of the Federal States that was has two sides. I hope and believe it has had, and will have a good effect. I saw with much pleasure, since then, an able article in the National Intelligencer, which called upon the north to consider gravely whether such a mode of warfare as they had inaugurated is likely to yield a success commensurate to its cost.

Looks like I have to add Meade and Grant to the Pillage Honor Roll along with Hunter, Wilde/Wild, Sherman, Butler, and Sheridan. The Federals must have decided if we can't beat them in the field, go after their women and children.

85 posted on 06/22/2002 7:43:42 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Another thing the neo-Rebs don't seem to understand is that the South is very important to this country. They have the attitude that the North sees them as second-class citizens. This is not so. Otherwise, the North would have just let them go. The South was worth fighting for and that is why the Union was willing to expend hundreds of thousands of lives in an all-out effort to retain it. Since the Civil War, the South has made very valuable contributions to the success of this great nation. I don't think we would have been able to do it without them.

As Benjamin Franklin once said, "We either hang together or hang separately." I strongly believe that had we allowed this country to split apart in 1860, we would have continued to fragment to the point where we would become a bunch of squabbling nations, constantly warring among each other, much like Europe over the past few centuries. Our strength is dependent upon our unity. There is no way we could have become the premier superpower on Earth and the greatest beacon of hope for freedom in the history of civilization, had we allowed the South to tear away from us.

86 posted on 06/22/2002 8:07:11 AM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: rustbucket
Chambersburg was in retaliation for Union General Hunter's burning of the Shenandoah Valley a month before.

Sorry, that won't wash. The Confederate leader initially demanded a ransom not to burn the town. When the townsfolks couldn't get the money up in the short allotted time, then the fires were started.

An act of a brigand, not a soldier.

87 posted on 06/22/2002 10:42:52 AM PDT by curmudgeonII
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To: BlueLancer
the tactics and strategy of Sherman (and Grant) were appropriate and necessary acts of warfare.

Stealing gold watches?

88 posted on 06/22/2002 11:00:11 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets
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To: Metal4Ever
count me among the optomistic!

for dixie,sw

89 posted on 06/22/2002 11:51:50 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: BlueLancer
the Law of War had been well-settled international law for over 300 YEARS in 1861. depredations against POWs and innocents/neutrals has always been a WAR CRIME!

lincoln,stanton,butler,sherman and MANY others would be tried TODAY, if they were still alive, imVho.

90 posted on 06/22/2002 11:54:35 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: Non-Sequitur
Had Jackson lived the war may have been prolonged but the outcome would have been the same.

I'll ask you to bite your tongue, sir. Had Jackson lived some of the mindless military blunders made after his death might not have happened and the South possibly could have gotten what she wanted all along. A standoff and lincoln would have had to sue for peace. The South always saw the war as a defensive battle, especially since abe fired the first shot by trying to resupply Sumter. We wanted to be left alone, and I believe in time would have become two powers with relations much closer than even the United States and Britain today

91 posted on 06/22/2002 11:59:44 AM PDT by billbears
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To: BlueLancer
the CSA had EVERY RIGHT under law to hang every rapist, looter,arsonist,murderer of civilians & POW that we could catch and try under international criminal law. the penalty is/was HANGING/FIRING SQUAD. we would have only hanged a very FEW for the word to get out!

MY family had at least 92 elderly men,women & children murdered in SC, during a 3-day drunken orgy of sex crimes,looting, arson & MURDER, for NO other reason than they were Indians AND the damnyankees KNEW that NOBODY in the federal army would CARE!

at least 5 CSA prisoners from my family were MURDERED while a POW at Point Lookout,MD.

these are FACTS!

for dixie,sw

92 posted on 06/22/2002 12:03:10 PM PDT by stand watie
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To: BlueLancer
the OTHER way would have been a vast offensive by partisans & guerrillas. we rebels could have held the wilderness & mountain areas of the country essentially forever;sooner or later the damnyankees would have given up trying to occupy our lands.

for dixie,sw

93 posted on 06/22/2002 12:07:05 PM PDT by stand watie
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To: rustbucket
EXACTLY!

for dixie LIBERTY,sw

94 posted on 06/22/2002 12:11:18 PM PDT by stand watie
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To: Rebelbase
so would STALIN & HITLER!

for dixie,sw

95 posted on 06/22/2002 12:11:54 PM PDT by stand watie
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To: agrandis
YEP!
96 posted on 06/22/2002 12:12:32 PM PDT by stand watie
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To: SamAdams76
Another thing the neo-Rebs don't seem to understand is that the South is very important to this country. They have the attitude that the North sees them as second-class citizens. This is not so

Bullshi#!! Excuse my language but that at least here in NC is an outright lie. We are seen as second class and not 'up to snuff' as we say by them. There were only two reasons the north wanted the South and had to fight. Our money (taxes) and our raw materials(cotton being one). If we hadn't had either, the war probably would not have started.

Today? Almost everyday I hear comments and jokes about Southern culture on television, radio, print media, and even here on FR. How we're all dumb rednecks and you wouldn't want a Southern surgeon or a Southern banker. How we do things differently down here and snide little comments about our culture. Jefferson himself saw us as 13 separate states, the only need for the Constitution was to join in international affairs and a few housekeeping affairs at home, not the Empire we are today

The north and the South are different from culture and belief to just daily living. We have become the dumping ground for 3/4 of the nation as a vacation spot. Somewhere you might want to go for a few years but not stay. To make fun of the slow Southerners. I was born and raised in the South, and God willing I will never leave. I don't know what you might have experienced to make a comment like that about Southern culture, but from someone who experiences it every day you are wrong

97 posted on 06/22/2002 12:14:51 PM PDT by billbears
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To: curmudgeonII
Sorry, that won't wash. The Confederate leader initially demanded a ransom not to burn the town. When the townsfolks couldn't get the money up in the short allotted time, then the fires were started.

An act of a brigand, not a soldier.

See my post 85 for Confederate General Early's explanation of the money demand. It was compensation for the destruction of Southern propery by Union General Hunter. At least the Chambersburg people had a choice -- the Southerners whose houses were burned didn't.

98 posted on 06/22/2002 12:24:13 PM PDT by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket
At least the Chambersburg people had a choice -- the Southerners whose houses were burned didn't.They certainly had more choice than the people living in the hotels in New York City when Confederate agents attempted to incinerate them [with the occupants still inside]. Even a quick scan of the literature reveals acts of vandalism commtted by both sides.
99 posted on 06/22/2002 1:07:25 PM PDT by curmudgeonII
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To: billbears
I don't know what you might have experienced to make a comment like that about Southern culture, but from someone who experiences it every day you are wrong

Actually I get far more flack from the rest of the country about living in Massachusetts than Southerners get about their culture. For example, Massachusetts and the people who live in Massachusetts are always being attacked on Free Republic, but I just have to grin and bear it.

Most of my family live down south (Alabama) and I spend a lot of time there. Even there, I have to take flack about Massachusetts. Unlike you, I just don't let it get to me. (Well, most of the time.)

100 posted on 06/22/2002 1:21:31 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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