Posted on 04/12/2008 1:43:08 PM PDT by lolcap
This is my first post here at Free Republic, I'm sorry if I'm not formatting it correctly!
I realize that you don't agree with my of my views as an anarcho-capitalist. I'm not posting here to troll, get into debates I'll never win, etc., I'm here to beg you to support McCain!
It wasn't until a few months ago that I understand why (as a libertarian) I always viewed the right with respect while viewing the left with disdain. I'll articulate it here:
Leftist programs knowingly create perpetual votes; rightist programs don't create perpetual votes at all. Leftist view government as the solution; rightists view government as a necessary evil.
That's not to mention that leftists are unfailingly smug, elitist, condescending, and self-important.
For me, as a libertarian, there's not a whole lot (anything?) in McCain to support. For you, as conservatives, there's not a whole lot in McCain to support, either.
Here's the problem with voting for a third party (or, in the case of my fellow anarcho-capitalists, not voting at all): the elitist, leftist scum (in this case Obama) might win.
You can't view politics as a back-and-forth game. It's not. The deck is stacked in the leftists' favor. Leftist programs are nearly impossible to dismantle, logistically and electorally! Your programs can be undone in a heartbeat!
The war on drugs could be ended in a week. Just stop enforcing the laws! There would be practically no fallout.
Social Security, on the other hand, is nearly impossible to end (and that scum FDR even gloated about this).
How is it possible to end a system where current workers are funding current retirees? Note only is it logistically difficult, it's electorally impossible! It's a system that creates voters who are dependent upon the system.
How can we wean people off of welfare(and all other social services) when they've become accustomed that money? Ignoring the logistical mess of cutting off millions of people's main source of income (an income to which they've become accustom), it is electorally possible. Not only will those using welfare be opposed to ending it, so will people who feel they might need to use it soon.
A welfare system creates more poverty and more voters who want a welfare system, which in turn leads to an expansion of the welfare system, which leads to more poverty and more voters who want a welfare system, etc.
Even something as simple as a "progressive" tax structure is (electorally) incredibly difficult to flatten (leftists can easily cry "class warfare!" when you try to cut back the top tax brackets). Of course, when elitists like Obama want to raise taxes on the top brackets, it's viewed as compassion.
That, my friends, is part of why this country has been in a steady march to the left. We can't afford any moment where a leftist is in control of us; they'll milk it for all it's worth, setting up programs that we'll never be able to undo.
McCain is not a conservative, I realize this. Still, voting for a third party isn't going to change the fact that either a "moderate" (McCain) or a leftist (Obama) is going to become the next president.
If elected, Obama the elitist (did you hear his comments about people "clinging" to religion and guns?) will cause irreversible damage to this country. While abstaining from voting will certainly send a message, I can assure you as a libertarian that sending messages is tremendously overrated.
You must not allow McCain to lose this!
I’m not sure that having an anarchist endorse McCain helps his cause, but maybe that’s the point?
I agree. At least McCain is a war hero. At least he’s got some issues right. Obama is wrong on everything, and is an America-hating scumbag. He is arrogant enough to think he can fool Americans with his charm all the while despising them.
Forget about candidates, and organize around issues and ideas.
Politicians just say whatever they think will get them elected.
The strategy is to popularize ideas of liberty, so politicians will spout those ideas to get elected.
You’re less anarchist than you seem to think.
But choosing to not enforce laws is not Libertarian, it’s Libertine.
Not a good idea without a moral people.
Technically, I believe there should be a government; it simply shouldn’t initiate the use of force. That being said, I agree with secretagent. Ultimately, it is ideas and policies, not politicians, that matter; Obama’s ideas and policies are infinitely more dangerous than McCain’s.
If you want a particularly depressing way of looking at it: McCain is Obama-lite.
Wow, that may be the most sensible and intelligent newbie vanity I’ve read here.
See my tagline; I think it succinctly sums up what you’re suggesting.
The Republicans are already ruining us. If the Democrats can be even worse, we’ll soon find out.
-- Leftist programs are nearly impossible to dismantle, logistically and electorally! Your programs can be undone in a heartbeat! The war on drugs could be ended in a week.
-- A welfare system creates more poverty and more voters who want a welfare system, which in turn leads to an expansion of the welfare system, which leads to more poverty and more voters who want a welfare system, etc.
-- We can't afford any moment where a leftist is in control of us; they'll milk it for all it's worth, setting up programs that we'll never be able to undo.
This is where our working definitions of Liberal and Conservative come in. Lefists are practicioners of liberalism to the extreme. The problem isn't leftists; it's the LIBERALISM they embrace. McCain is a Republican. He is also a Liberal. All of those issues above; try global warming, acceptance of the concept of "nationalized" (what a euphemism) medicine, forced social acceptance of homosexuality at the muzzle of Federal regulation -- he's a liberal, and liberals do things like enact welfare programs, nominate liberal judges, etc. He's a "government is our solution" Republican, and "Government is our solution" is the antithesis of conservatism. He seeks the U.S. presidency. If that's a Republican, I ain't one.
We know that "if you're 20 and you're a conservative, you have no heart; if you're 50 and a liberal you have no brain." That is where a lot of coservative voters come from. They want less government, that's what they want to vote for because as they get older and wiser, they realize that it's in their best moral and personal interest.
When the Republican party manifests the Perfect Storm that is McCain, then future voters are left high and dry. They have no party to vote for. The damage to the Republican party would be tremendous. It's not about McCain, it's about LIBERALISM. When you ask me to vote for McCain, you're asking me to endorse Liberalism as a good calculated risk because McCain carries the Republican name and that should count for something, right?
Not any more. Now it stands for the Big Daddy brand of big government Liberalism, instead of the Mommy brand that Democrats offer.
McCain's VP choice will be key for me, and I'm not holding my breath. If that VP is someone like Romney, whose Massachusetts government health care plan is now really starting to hurt, there's a high probability that a McCain victory would do more damage for sabotaging the Repulican identity of conservatism, the fount of future voters. I fear Obama and Hillary less because of another risk I'm willing to take: I think they'd become pariahs quickly. They're divisive, flawed, and weak -- their popular support is illusion, and they'd be fought from many sides through, I'm gambling, a rocky four-year presidency. Republicans would gain in Congress and the image of the Democrat party would be in shambles. I am also mindful that if McCain wins, it's the Republican party that would be in shambles.
To have that in the White House would be weatherable and horrible -- for the U.S. and especially for the Democrat party if Obama or Hillary win. The Democrat party bears the principles and identy of Liberalism. Liberalism is the cause of our ills, NOT the Democrat party. LIBERALISM. McCain may not be a Democrat, but he's a Liberal captaining the Republican ship into Liberal shoals.
Did you really mean:
While abstaining from voting for McCain will certainly send a message, I can assure you as a libertarian that sending messages is tremendously overrated.
Understand that "sending a message" is off my radar. This is a ship asail heading for a reef and its sails need to be changed now. To refrain from supporting McCain and risking the outcome as the least destructive is a calculated gamble, an attempt to change the set of the sails of the Republican party. There is no "message," only the excercise of power to direct outcomes.
I’m not sure how you differentiate between McCain and the leftists.................
That said I’ll vote to oppose Hillary or Obama even if it means I have to vote for that lying leftist McCain.
“From an anarcho-capitalist: Please Support McCain!”
No. If yer lucky I MIGHT vote against Obama IF McBackstabbers’ VP is a conservative.
What do you gain by allowing Obama to win?
“What do you gain by allowing Obama to win?”
I am not allowing anyone to do anything. I did not nominate the backstabbing POS. I have NO obligation to vote for it.
Then by all means, please sell out what principles that you may have in order to reward the little backstabber for his behavior of the last 7-8 years. You know that is how he will look at it. A gift from his abused spouse, hoping to avoid another bludgeoning at his hands. You go for it, I’ve left him.
[I just noticed an annoying typo in my OP. Is it possible to edit on here Free Republic?]
Neither of us are going to change our minds. I’ll simply hope for both of us that Obama doesn’t win! :)
“Neither of us are going to change our minds. I’ll simply hope for both of us that Obama doesn’t win! :)”
I do not fear the neophyte. Of the three he is likely to do the least damage.
Good post, on the issue of fiscal conservatism alone Mccain is streets ahead of the rest and that includes the other Republican contendors. I have no issue is supporting McCain 100% for the Presidency.
I find it to be at the least disingenuous of lord McCain to be bashing Obama for being elitist after taking inventory of lord McCain's legislative agenda.
Excellent post, Finny.
“McCain won’t get away with raising taxes...remember Bush Sr.?”
He’s 72. What does he care about consequences?
99 out of 100 anarchists choose McCain.....
Good campaign slogan. The amnesty you get today will be anarchy for tomorrow.....
Welcome to FR....
The situation that dedicated Conservatives are faced with is, if we support McCain, we will most likely ruin our future chances for ever having an influence on this government for many years to come.
Under McCain, the economy will tank. we will be up to our armpits in millions of illegals, who will vote Democrat anyway, not to mention his alliance with the most Liberal legislators in history of the Senate and House but mostly, he will grow government as fast if not faster than the Democrats will.
At least the Democrats will have their hands full trying to fight the serious opposition we will give them and they will busy trying to figure out why their Socialist policies are destroying our economy.
We can undo taxes, and legislation much easier than we can undo the ruined reputation that Republicans will have after McCain passes the blame on our side. After which, it will be decades before any Republican ever sits in the Oval Office again.
Losing is not such a bad thing. We proved that in ‘80 when Reagan took over after the mess Carter created. It was fixed in very short order afterward. The Democrats will make a real mess of things once again, and the public will blame them for it instead of us.
“Neither of us are going to change our minds. I’ll simply hope for both of us that Obama doesn’t win! :)”
Does that mean you are OK with a hillary clinton win?
(not using caps in her name is intentional)
“a conservative Congress”
We lost Congress in 06 because of the ‘I’ll show you’ vote.
That really worked, ya, it sure did!
WEll I keep hearing it was because of the no shows, however, in my state Missouri the ballot was loaded up for the UNIONS and they got their people out in force. How I know this was because the initiative to raise cigarette taxes failed 'big time', yet the 'Union' initiatives passed with flying colors.... also Talent was not an inspiring candidate to counter the get out the Union required for work votes.
Also on the ballot was the 'stem cell' initiative which played to the medicaid crowd big time and whenever liberals can inspire their base there really are not enough conservatives to stop them.
You’re forgetting one thing- the Supreme Court.
Poppycock. Idiots may fall in love with Obama's European welfate state and permanently lurch the country left.
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