Skip to comments.Where’s Obama’s Birth Certificate? Who Cares?
Posted on 03/30/2011 11:45:29 PM PDT by TLittlefella
Am I just crazy or are we a nation of fools. The birthers, the billboards, a whole host of
others and now Trump seek out the seemingly impossible Obamas Birth Certificate.
The courts wont have anything to do with that quest, nor will people like Karl Rove
engage in any serious conversation about the issue. The issue is now being made fun of
by people like OReilly who seems to have no problem authenticating ones eligibility as
a natural born citizen by using newspaper articles. Too big for his trousers OReilly
continues to squander his credibility with foolish logic like that. I wish fox would wake
up and swap OReillys programming slot with Van Susteren, at least then we could
believe what we hear. If OReilly spent as much time caring about our constitution as he
does trying to analyze body language we would all be very grateful.
The most influential and powerful position in the world is the President of the United
States. And that position is protected and guided by our constitution. Yet damn fools like
OReilly have the audacity to ask questions like do you think Obamas birth place is
important?. OReilly might just as well be asking do you think our constitution is
Assisted by liberal courts and the passage of time the democrats have defused the issue
and now they have managed to brainwash people like Rove into thinking addressing the
issue of a illegitimate president is dangerous to your political career. Let me tell Rove
something failing to address the issue is dangerous to the longevity of our democracy.
It is not only Rove who has tied his own brain into a knot, we now have people willing to
accept the illegitimate Obama because they fear the financial and legal ramifications of
exposing the fraud. You dont run from issues of defrauding our constitution because the
results will be messy and unpleasant. This is the same shallow mindedness that has
created the anarchy now before us where murderers average eight years incarnation. Our
dysfunctional justice system has decided to trade human life for eight years
imprisonment, now the damn fools in our society are attempting to let the next turnip
falling off the truck be eligible for the presidency.
OReilly and Rove, why dont you take your riches and get the hell out of Dodge, the
country is self destructing fast enough, we dont need your national exposure accelerating
The qualifications for Obama to be a natural born citizen requires both of his parents to
be U.S. citizens as well as Obama being born on American soil. Forget about where
Obama was born, we may never know for sure if he was born in America and there is so
much doubt and mistrust in Obama any birth certificate presented would be declared a
We need to concentrate on the requirement of having two parents being U.S. citizens. If
there is any Achilles heel in his defense it is the provable fact his father was born in
Kenya and was not a U.S. citizen when Obama was born. This is the issue we need to
focus on, Im beginning to think the birth certificate issue is merely a deflection by the
ignorant and the evil who secretly support Obama.
We must ask ourselves:
Why are the brilliant constitutionally astute people like Ted Olson not beating down the
doors of the Supreme Court demanding justice?
Where is our republican controlled congress? Why havent they given Obama a choice of
either immediate impeachment or his public announcement not to run again in 2012?
Why are our conservative talk show hosts not making this a daily issue until the turnips
we have in congress finally listen and act?
Why are the individual states that are now under republican control not refusing to put
Obama on the 2012 ballot? And if the dysfunctional liberal courts demand he be put on
the ballot, ignore their order. This will force the Supreme Court to take up the issue and
subpoena his birth certificate and confirm his father fails the U.S. citizen test.
What are we going to do, wait until the brain dead cabbage patch elects Obama again in
2012 and then cry like babies cause we sat on our asses and condoned the greatest fraud
ever to be perpetrated against the constitution? For the second time?
They tell me a good indication of insanity is the act repeating the same process over and
over again and expecting different results. We keep putting career politicians in congress
over and over again and expecting different results, are we all insane?
Trump is not a career politician, if he had thirty three non political candidates for the
senate and four hundred thirty five non political candidates for the house and ran as the
American New Deal he would win. America is absolutely fed up with deceitful
Presidents and a wayward congress.
The American New Deal
If it’s a non-issue, why bother even penning such a diatribe?
These are games children play. The adults need to take away this political ployused to mock opponentsfrom Obama and all future presidential and vice-presidential candidates.
Questions have come up before for candidates from both parties. It isn't going away. Obama, by hiding his records yet frequently referring to the question, has made it into a political weapon to be used to belittle his critics.
Eligibility bills are a must. The People deserve to know the Constitution has meaning and their president and vice president are minimally qualified for the job as specified in the Constitution.
To me, it’s not just the natural born citizen issue. It’s about how obastard has hidden - and spent big money on hiding - virtually every record about his life.
To be blunt, I’m starting to think “Barack Hussein Obama” is an alias. At best.
“seek out the seemingly impossible Obamas Birth Certificate.”
This gave me the idea that someone should remake Monty Python & the Holy Grail, but have the knights be on a quest for the “Sacred Long Form of the Nativity”.
They do seem to come running when the issue comes up. It must be part of the smokescreen Zero is hiding behind. The libtards HAVE to defend Zero on this, because if it becomes a legal fact he is a fraud, everything they have “accomplished” becomes null and void. He goes to jail and anyone who knew and conspired gets dragged in in his wake. It would make Nixon look like a library fine and just about finish the Rats fer good. This is a battle they CAN’T lose.
>If its a non-issue, why bother even penning such a diatribe?<
The entire article was not an attack on birthers but is a question geared towards liberals..
Sorry, I didn’t mean to awake the cabbage patch. Go back to sleep.
Well said - I agree.
Thanks for your reply.
This is a battle they CANT lose.
It’s a battle our constitution cannot afford to lose.
Good article bud. But the title will confuse some Freepers..it actually did LOL.
Why is Obama wearing a wedding ring before he ever met Michelle?
Why is Obama attending the 3rd grade in two different countries?
I started to actually respond ... then I said F*** IT and then I went out side and killed a Possum ... neither is of any note.
The entire article was not an attack on birthers but is a question geared towards liberals..
Here’s a case where the court explored the meaning of “natural born” — in Section B:
916 N.E.2d 678
Steve ANKENY and Bill Kruse, Appellants-Plaintiffs,
GOVERNOR OF the STATE OF INDIANA, Appellee-Respondent.
Court of Appeals of Indiana.
November 12, 2009.
[916 N.E.2d 679]
Steve Ankeny, New Castle, IN, Bill Kruse, Roselawn, IN, Appellants pro se.
Gregory F. Zoeller, Attorney General of Indiana, Frances Barrow, Deputy Attorney General, Indianapolis, IN, Attorneys for Appellee.
Steve Ankeny and Bill Kruse (collectively, “Plaintiffs”), pro se, appeal the trial court’s grant of a motion to dismiss filed by Mitch Daniels, in his official capacity as the Governor of the State of Indiana (”Governor”). Plaintiffs raise nine issues, which we revise and restate as whether the trial court erred by granting the motion to dismiss under Ind. Trial Rule 12(B)(6).1 We affirm.2
[916 N.E.2d 680]
The relevant facts follow. On December 9, 2008, Plaintiffs filed a “PETITION FOR EXTRAORDINARY WRIT OF PROHIBITION” against the Governor3 to prevent the Governor “from issuing a `Certificate of Ascertainment,’ or any other document, to Congress of the United States containing any popular votes for Barack Obama and Joe Biden for the appointment as Chief Electors . . . [or] John McCain and Sarah Palin for the appointment of Electors.” Appellants’ Appendix at 6. On January 30, 2009, the Governor filed a motion to dismiss alleging in part that “the Plaintiffs have failed to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.” Appellee’s Appendix at 1. The Governor also filed a memorandum in support of the motion to dismiss. On February 17, 2009, the Plaintiffs filed their opposition to the Governor’s motion to dismiss. On March 16, 2009, the trial court granted the Governor’s motion to dismiss after a hearing. On April 13, 2009, the Plaintiffs filed their notice of appeal.
The sole issue is whether the trial court erred when it dismissed Plaintiffs’ complaint. A motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim tests the legal sufficiency of the claim, not the facts supporting it. General Cas. Ins. Co. v. Bright, 885 N.E.2d 56, 57 (Ind.Ct.App. 2008) (citing Charter One Mortg. Corp. v. Condra, 865 N.E.2d 602, 604 (Ind.2007)). Thus, our review of a trial court’s grant or denial of a motion based on Trial Rule 12(B)(6) is de novo. Id. at 58. When reviewing a motion to dismiss, we view the pleadings in the light most favorable to the nonmoving party, with every reasonable inference construed in the nonmovant’s favor. Id. A complaint may not be dismissed for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted unless it is clear on the face of the complaint that the complaining party is not entitled to relief.4
[916 N.E.2d 681]
Id. However, a court need not accept as true any “conclusory, non-factual assertions or legal conclusions.” Irish v. Woods, 864 N.E.2d 1117, 1120 (Ind.Ct.App. 2007). “Thus, while we do not test the sufficiency of the facts alleged with regards to their adequacy to provide recovery, we do test their sufficiency with regards to whether or not they have stated some factual scenario in which a legally actionable injury has occurred.” Trail v. Boys and Girls Clubs of Northwest Indiana, 845 N.E.2d 130, 134 (Ind.2006).
In their complaint, the Plaintiffs appear to suggest that the Governor has a duty to determine a person’s eligibility to become President in issuing the “Certificate of Ascertainment” “officially appoint[ing] the electors” who cast the State of Indiana’s votes in the Electoral College, the body which decides the election for the President of the United States (”President”). Transcript at 13. Specifically, Plaintiffs appear to argue that the Governor did not comply with this duty because: (A) neither President Barack Obama nor Senator John McCain were eligible “to be appointed `Elector in Chief’ in violation of Article II, Section 1, Clause 2’s prohibition that no United States Senator currently holding that office shall be appointed Elector for any State,” and (B) neither President Barack Obama nor Senator John McCain were eligible to hold the office of President because neither were “born naturally within any Article IV State of the 50 United States of America. . . .” Appellants’ Appendix at 11-12, 16-18.
Initially, we note that the Plaintiffs do not cite to any authority recognizing that the Governor has a duty to determine the eligibility of a party’s nominee for the presidency. The Plaintiffs do not cite to authority, nor do they develop a cogent legal argument stating that a certificate of ascertainment has any relation to the eligibility of the candidates. However, we note that even if the Governor does have such a duty, for the reasons below we cannot say that President Barack Obama or Senator John McCain was not eligible to become President. We will handle each of Plaintiffs’ arguments in turn.
A. Sitting Senator
First, Plaintiffs argue that “[t]he Constitution of the United States enumerates qualification for the Office of Presidential and Vice-Presidential Electors, and no `sitting Senator,’ such as Senator Barack Obama and Senator Joseph Biden, or Senator John McCain, was qualified.” Appellants’ Brief at 8. We hold for the reasons stated below that Plaintiffs failed to state a cognizable legal claim upon which relief can be granted.
In evaluating Plaintiffs’ claim, one need not go further than compare their framing of the electoral process in the State of Indiana with Indiana’s electoral process as constructed by state and federal statute, and indeed by the U.S. Constitution itself. Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution sets forth how the President is chosen; the mechanism used is called the
[916 N.E.2d 682]
Electoral College. See 3 U.S.C. § 4. Article II, Section 1 describes how the Electoral College is filled as follows:
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.
U.S. CONST. art. II, § 1, cl. 2. Much of the rest of Article II, Section 1 was changed by the Twelfth Amendment which was ratified in June 1804. The Twelfth Amendment directs:
The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President . . . and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President . . .
U.S. CONST. amend. XII.
Thus, the U.S. Constitution vests in the various state legislatures the authority to determine how their state chooses their Electors. The Indiana Legislature acted on this authority when it enacted Ind.Code § 3-10-4-4, which allows voter ballots to carry the name of the “nominees for President and Vice President of the United States of a political party,” and that such votes for each nominee “is a vote cast or registered for all of the candidates for presidential electors of the party. . . .” By virtue of its nine members of the House of Representatives and its two Senators, Indiana was entitled to eleven electors in the November 4, 2008 election.5 Both the Democratic and Republican party nominated eleven individuals who were residents of the State of Indiana to serve as their party’s electors in the 2008 presidential election.6 See Ind.Code § 3-8-4-2 (”[a] political party shall conduct a state convention to . . . nominate candidates for presidential electors and alternate electors . . . .”); see also Appellants’ Appendix at 21-22. Neither President Barack Obama nor Senator John McCain were nominated as electors for their respective parties in the 2008 election. Appellants’ Appendix at 21-22.
“Not later than noon on the second Monday following an election, each circuit court clerk shall prepare a certified statement
[916 N.E.2d 683]
. . . of votes received by each candidate for: (1) federal office. . . .” Ind.Code § 3-12-5-6(a). These certified statements are sent to the election division of the Secretary of State. Ind.Code § 3-12-5-6(b). Once the election results have been tabulated, “not later than noon of the last Tuesday in November,” the Secretary of State “shall certify to the governor the candidate receiving the highest number of votes for each office.” Ind.Code § 3-12-5-7. The Governor must then execute a certificate of ascertainment which officially appoints the winning presidential electors; a copy of the certificate of ascertainment is then sent to the Archivist of the United States.7 3 U.S.C. § 6.
The presidential electors assemble “in the chamber of the Indiana house of representatives on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December as provided by 3 U.S.C. 7, or on another day fixed by the Congress of the United States, at 10 a.m. to elect the President and Vice-President of the United States.” Ind.Code § 3-10-4-7. The electors then furnish copies of the “certificates so made by them and the lists attached thereto”8 to the Vice President, the Indiana Secretary of State, the Archivist of the United States, and “judge of the district in which the electors shall have assembled.” 3 U.S.C. § 11. The votes of the electors of each state are then tallied by the Congress of the United States and the new President is announced. 3 U.S.C. § 15.
The Plaintiffs have a different view of the electoral process in the State of Indiana. In their complaint, the Plaintiffs allege that:
By allowing the name of Barack Obama upon the ballot for appointment of Electors, the Governor of the State of Indiana has allowed Barack Obama to be appointed “Elector in Chief” in violation of Article II, Section 1, Clause 2’s prohibition that no United States Senator currently holding that office shall be appointed Elector for any State. Appellants’ Appendix at 16. The Plaintiffs make a similar charge against Senator John McCain’s name appearing on the ballot. In essence, Plaintiffs argue that because President Barack Obama and Senator John McCain were United States Senators on November 4, 2008, they were constitutionally ineligible to be appointed as presidential elector (or, as Plaintiffs put it, “Elector in Chief”).
Plaintiffs do not state a meritorious claim. Notwithstanding the fact that it is unclear what Plaintiffs are referring to by the phrase “Elector in Chief,” Plaintiffs’ characterization of the electoral process in the State of Indiana simply is not consistent with the applicable laws. The fact that the names “Barack Obama” and “John McCain” are the ones that appeared on the ballot does not change the fact that they were in fact candidates for the presidency, not any of Indiana’s electors.
This distinction between a candidate and an elector is readily ascertainable throughout Title 3 of the Indiana Code. As an example, we examine Ind.Code § 3-8-1-6, titled “President or Vice President; electors.” That code section states:
(a) A candidate for the office of President or Vice President of the United States must have the qualifications provided in Article 2, Section 1, clause 4 of the Constitution of the United States.
[916 N.E.2d 684]
(b) A candidate for the office of elector for President and Vice President of the United States must have the qualifications provided in Article 2, Section 1, clause 2 of the Constitution of the United States and Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
Ind.Code § 3-8-1-6 (emphasis added). Thus, Ind.Code § 3-8-1-6 expresses a dichotomy between the presidential and vice-presidential nominees and the slate of electors appointed by each political party to serve in the Electoral College. See also Ind.Code § 3-10-4-1 (stating that the names of the “electors of President and Vice President of the United States may not be placed on the ballot,” but that “[t]he names of the nominees for President and Vice President of the United States . . . shall be placed . . . on the ballot . . .”).
Thus, we conclude that Plaintiffs’ argument that the Governor has allowed President Barack Obama and Senator John McCain to be appointed “Elector in Chief” in violation of Article II, Section 1, Clause 2’s prohibition against sitting Senators being appointed Elector for any State fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.
B. Natural Born Citizen
Second, the Plaintiffs argue that both President Barack Obama and Senator John McCain are not “natural born Citizens” as required for qualification to be President under Article II, Section 1, Clause 49 of the U.S. Constitution, and that therefore because neither person was constitutionally eligible to become President, “[t]he Governor . . . should [have been] prohibited by order of [the trial court] . . . from issuing any certificate of ascertainment, or any other certified statement, under the State Seal of the State of Indiana. . . .” Appellants’ Appendix at 13.
Before addressing the Plaintiffs’ specific arguments, we think it helpful to point out the context in which this claim arises. Leading up to the 2008 Presidential Election and in the ensuing months after, a number of lawsuits were filed nationwide challenging both President Barack Obama and Senator John McCain’s10 status as “natural born Citizens” under Article II of the U.S. Constitution. See, e.g., Berg v. Obama, 574 F.Supp.2d 509 (E.D.Pa.2008);
[916 N.E.2d 685]
Hollander v. McCain, 566 F.Supp.2d 63 (D.N.H.2008); Cohen v. Obama, No. 08-2150, 2008 WL 5191864 (D.D.C. Dec.11, 2008), aff’d by 332 Fed.Appx. 640, 2009 WL 2870668 (D.C.Cir. Sept.8, 2009); Wrotnowski v. Bysiewicz, 289 Conn. 522, 958 A.2d 709 (2008). As to President Obama’s status, the most common argument has been waged by members of the so-called “birther” movement who suggest that the President was not born in the United States; they support their argument by pointing to “the President’s alleged refusal to disclose publicly an `official birth certificate’ that is satisfactory to [the birthers].” Rhodes v. MacDonald, No. 409-CV-106CDL, 2009 WL 2997605, at *1 (M.D.Ga. Sept. 16, 2009), reconsideration denied by 2009 WL 3111834 (M.D.Ga. Sept.18, 2009).
The Plaintiffs in the instant case make a different legal argument based strictly on constitutional interpretation. Specifically, the crux of the Plaintiffs’ argument is that “[c]ontrary to the thinking of most People on the subject, there’s a very clear distinction between a `citizen of the United States’ and a `natural born Citizen,’ and the difference involves having [two] parents of U.S. citizenship, owing no foreign allegiance.” Appellants’ Brief at 23. With regard to President Barack Obama, the Plaintiffs posit that because his father was a citizen of the United Kingdom, President Obama is constitutionally ineligible to assume the Office of the President.
The bases of the Plaintiffs’ arguments come from such sources as FactCheck.org, The Rocky Mountain News, an eighteenth century treatise by Emmerich de Vattel titled “The Law of Nations,” and various citations to nineteenth century congressional debate.11 For the reasons stated below, we hold that the Plaintiffs’ arguments fail to state a claim upon which relief can be granted, and that therefore the trial court did not err in dismissing the Plaintiffs’ complaint.
Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution governs who is a citizen of the United States. It provides that “[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States . . . .” U.S. CONST. amend XIV, § 1. Article II has a special requirement to assume the Presidency: that the person be a “natural born Citizen.” U.S. CONST. art. II, § 1, cl. 4. The United States Supreme Court has read these two provisions in tandem and held that “[t]hus new citizens may be born or they may be created by naturalization.” Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. (21 Wall.) 162, 167, 22 L.Ed. 627 (1874). In Minor, written only six years after the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified, the Court observed that:
The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts.
[916 N.E.2d 686]
Id. at 167-168, 22 L.Ed. 627. Thus, the Court left open the issue of whether a person who is born within the United States of alien parents is considered a natural born citizen.12
Then, in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 18 S.Ct. 456, 42 L.Ed. 890 (1898), the United States Supreme Court confronted the question of “whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who at the time of his birth are subject to the emperor of China . . . becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States, by virtue of the first clause of the fourteenth amendment. . . .” 169 U.S. at 653, 18 S.Ct. at 458. We find this case instructive. The Court in Wong Kim Ark reaffirmed Minor in that the meaning of the words “citizen of the United States” and “natural-born citizen of the United States” “must be interpreted in the light of the common law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the constitution.” Id. at 654, 18 S.Ct. at 459. They noted that “[t]he interpretation of the constitution of the United States is necessarily influenced by the fact that its provisions are framed in the language of the English common law, and are to be read in the light of its history.” Id. at 655, 18 S.Ct. at 459 (quoting Smith v. Alabama, 124 U.S. 465, 478, 8 S.Ct. 564, 569, 31 L.Ed. 508 (1888)). The Wong Kim Ark Court explained:
The fundamental principle of the common law with regard to English nationality was birth within the allegiance-also called `ligealty,’ `obedience,’ `faith,’ or `power’-of the king. The principle embraced all persons born within the king’s allegiance, and subject to his protection. Such allegiance and protection were mutual,-as expressed in the maxim, `Protectio trahit subjectionem, et subjectio protectionem,’-and were not restricted to natural-born subjects and naturalized subjects, or to those who had taken an oath of allegiance; but were predicable of aliens in amity, so long as they were within the kingdom. Children, born in England, of such aliens, were therefore natural-born subjects. But the children, born within the realm, of foreign ambassadors, or the children of alien enemies, born during and within their hostile occupation of part of the king’s dominions, were not natural-born subjects, because not born within the allegiance, the obedience, or the power, or, as would be said at this day, within the jurisdiction, of the king.
This fundamental principle, with these qualifications or explanations of it, was clearly, though quaintly, stated in the leading case known as `Calvin’s Case,’ or the `Case of the Postnati,’ decided in 1608, after a hearing in the exchequer chamber before the lord chancellor and all the judges of England, and reported by Lord Coke and by Lord Ellesmere. Calvin’s Case, 7 Coke, 1, 4b-6a, 18a, 18b; Ellesmere, Postnati, 62-64; s. c. 2 How. St. Tr. 559, 607, 613-617, 639, 640, 659, 679.
The English authorities ever since are to the like effect. Co. Litt. 8a, 128b; Lord Hale, in Harg. Law Tracts, 210, and in 1 Hale, P.C. 61, 62; 1 Bl. Comm. 366, 369, 370, 374; 4 Bl. Comm. 74, 92; Lord Kenyon, in Doe v. Jones, 4 Term R. 300, 308; Cockb. Nat. 7; Dicey, Confl. Laws, pp. 173-177, 741.
[916 N.E.2d 687]
* * * * * *
Lord Chief Justice Cockburn . . . said: `By the common law of England, every person born within the dominions of the crown, no matter whether of English or of foreign parents, and, in the latter case, whether the parents were settled, or merely temporarily sojourning, in the country, was an English subject, save only the children of foreign ambassadors (who were excepted because their fathers carried their own nationality with them), or a child born to a foreigner during the hostile occupation of any part of the territories of England. No effect appears to have been given to descent as a source of nationality.’ Cockb. Nat. 7.
Mr. Dicey, in his careful and thoughtful Digest of the Law of England with Reference to the Conflict of Laws, published in 1896, states the following propositions, his principal rules being printed below in italics: “British subject’ means any person who owes permanent allegiance to the crown. `Permanent’ allegiance is used to distinguish the allegiance of a British subject from the allegiance of an alien, who, because he is within the British dominions, owes `temporary’ allegiance to the crown. `Natural-born British subject’ means a British subject who has become a British subject at the moment of his birth.’ `Subject to the exceptions hereinafter mentioned, any person who (whatever the nationality of his parents) is born within the British dominions is a natural-born British subject. This rule contains the leading principle of English law on the subject of British nationality.’ The exceptions afterwards mentioned by Mr. Dicey are only these two: `(1) Any person who (his father being an alien enemy) is born in a part of the British dominions, which at the time of such person’s birth is in hostile occupation, is an alien.’ `(2) Any person whose father (being an alien) is at the time of such person’s birth an ambassador or other diplomatic agent accredited to the crown by the sovereign of a foreign state is (though born within the British dominions) an alien.’ And he adds: `The exceptional and unimportant instances in which birth within the British dominions does not of itself confer British nationality are due to the fact that, though at common law nationality or allegiance in substance depended on the place of a person’s birth, it in theory at least depended, not upon the locality of a man’s birth, but upon his being born within the jurisdiction and allegiance of the king of England; and it might occasionally happen that a person was born within the dominions without being born within the allegiance, or, in other words, under the protection and control of the crown.’ Dicey, Confl. Laws, pp. 173-177, 741.
It thus clearly appears that by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country, and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign; and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.
III. The same rule was in force in all the English colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the constitution as originally established.13
[916 N.E.2d 688]
Id. at 655-658, 18 S.Ct. at 459-460.
Also, as quoted in Wong Kim Ark, Justice Joseph Story once declared in Inglis v. Trustees of Sailors’ Snug Harbor, 28 U.S. (3 Pet.) 99, 7 L.Ed. 617 (1830), that “Nothing is better settled at the common law than the doctrine that the children, even of aliens, born in a country, while the parents are resident there under the protection of the government, and owing a temporary allegiance thereto, are subjects by birth.” Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. at 660, 18 S.Ct. at 461 (quoting Inglis, 28 U.S. (3 Pet.) at 164 (Story, J., concurring)). The Court also cited Justice Curtis’s dissent in Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. (19 How.) 393, 15 L.Ed. 691 (1856):
The first section of the second article of the constitution uses the language, `a natural-born citizen.’ It thus assumes that citizenship may be acquired by birth. Undoubtedly, this language of the constitution was used in reference to that principle of public law, well understood in this country at the time of the adoption of the constitution, which referred citizenship to the place of birth.
Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. at 662, 18 S.Ct. at 462 (quoting Dred Scott, 60 U.S. (19 How.) at 576 (Curtis, J., dissenting)).
The Court in Wong Kim Ark also cited authority which notes that:
All persons born in the allegiance of the king are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is the common law of this country, as well as of England. We find no warrant for the opinion that this great principle of the common law has ever been changed in the United States. It has always obtained here with the same vigor, and subject only to the same exceptions, since as before the Revolution.
Id. at 662-663, 18 S.Ct. at 462 (quotations and citations omitted). The Court held that Mr. Wong Kim Ark was a citizen of the United States “at the time of his birth.”14 Id. at 705, 18 S.Ct. at 478.
Based upon the language of Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 and the guidance provided by Wong Kim Ark, we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born Citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. Just as a person “born within the British dominions [was] a natural-born British subject” at the time of the framing of the U.S. Constitution, so too were those “born in the allegiance of the United States  natural-born citizens.”15
[916 N.E.2d 689]
The Plaintiffs do not mention the above United States Supreme Court authority in their complaint or brief; they primarily rely instead on an eighteenth century treatise and quotations of Members of Congress made during the nineteenth century. To the extent that these authorities conflict with the United States Supreme Court’s interpretation of what it means to be a natural born citizen, we believe that the Plaintiffs’ arguments fall under the category of “conclusory, non-factual assertions or legal conclusions” that we need not accept as true when reviewing the grant of a motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim. Irish, 864 N.E.2d at 1120. Thus, we cannot say that the trial court erred when it dismissed the Plaintiffs’ case.16 See generally McCalment v. Eli Lilly & Co., 860 N.E.2d 884 (Ind.Ct.App. 2007) (holding that the plaintiffs’ arguments had been sufficiently addressed by Indiana Supreme Court precedent and therefore the trial court did not err when it granted the defendant’s motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted); see also, e.g., Diaz-Salazar v. I.N.S., 700 F.2d 1156, 1160 (7th Cir.1983) (noting in its recitation of the facts that despite the fact father was not a citizen of the United States, he had children who were “natural-born citizens of the United States”), cert. denied 462 U.S. 1132, 103 S.Ct. 3112, 77 L.Ed.2d 1367 (1983).
For the foregoing reasons, we affirm the trial court’s grant of the Governor’s motion to dismiss.
CRONE, J., and MAY, J., concur.
Since others on this thread have pointed out that this is a fight that team Obama cannot afford to lose and since the article points out that the any birth certificate offered at this point would probably be fraudulent, you have overlooked their best strategy.
If forced to produce a document, then why should they feel constrained about who would be listed as the birth father? All they have to do is print in the name of a convenient American citizen and they solve two problems at once!
Naturally, there would then be no question about the father being a British subject AND it would provide a ready explanation of why team Obama had gone to such great lengths to guard this “original” document. The MSM would drum up the sympathy to no end for poor Obama who was forced by those heartless conservatives to reveal his tragic family past.
if you don’t care about whether or not the person holding the office of the president is Constitutionally eligible... then you don’t care about the Constitution
if you don’t care about the Constitution, then you can toss out all the laws in the United States. every single one. as they are ALL based on that founding document.
so, do you want to uphold the Constitution or just toss it?
i know which the progressives, and 0bama, would pick
Really? I wonder why?
Here is some more information and links
Hmm…An AP story from 2004 entitled Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate has been discovered on archive.org by many sites (and twitter where I got this). Does this mean now that the AP is nothing but a bunch of birthers?
Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations. ...
See the whole Obama 1964 divorce on Scribd.com or as 13 individual images below (in proper order):
I immediately called the clerk in Hawaii and asked where the extra page was. She looked, and counted, and said that there must be some mistake in the records she counted only 13 pages that are available for reprint. I pointed out to her that the page count she sent skipped from page 10 to page 12 page 11 was missing. To that, she suggested that perhaps the pages were simply misnumbered before they where archived into the microfiche.
I accepted her answer, not thinking much about it at the time. Perhaps it was just a clerical error in the 1960s, when hand-filed paper records and IBM punch cards were how court documents were tracked and maintained.
I have since come to learn that Obama and his team of lawyers have been working to sanitize his records since he announced that he’d run for President circa November 2004. Now in the White House, hes still ACTIVELY blocking subpoenas for such documents as his Cambridge and Occidental College records TODAY the same type of documents promised to be made available during his campaign. Obama and his lawyers are exceedingly adept at exploiting loopholes in Hawaiian birth certificate law to keep Obamas past hidden from the American people.
This missing page page 11 very likely is a copy of the original birth certificate, based upon the prima facie timeline of the 1964 divorce. The Kenya birth certificate was likely requested on Jan 23, 1964 by either Judge King (to award custody on the next trial date), or recommended to Ann Dunham by her attorney for the ex parte divorce, where only one parent was expected to be present.
The missing page, 11, should be chronologically-numbered as all other pages were in the original docket file, by the court clerk at the time. Starting at page 8, Exhibit A is placed where it would have occurred by date in the paperwork (and appeared on microfiche), even denoting an erased, yet barely-readable “8″ on both pages of the returned notification sent to Obama SR. The missing page, numbered as page 11, would likely be a page that would have been admitted to the divorce file sometime in mid- to late-February 1964 almost as if it were an undocumented Exhibit B.
Heres a very plausible timeline merging the 1964 Obama Divorce papers and new Kenya birth certificate:
Jan 20 (Mon) divorce request is filed by Stanley Ann D. Obama
Jan 23 (Thur) divorce orders for trial are given by Judge King at chambers
In Hawaii, birth certificates are not Public Record. If the Kenya birth certificate was a part of the divorce decree, it may have been pulled out at the end of the trial, or more recently by a watchful archivist or attorneys wishing to remove unfavorable information about Obama.
To date, despite other honest attempts to refute the Kenya birth certificate, such as dealing with when the Republic of Kenya came into existence as a republic have been un-bunked. Dishonest alterations of the Kenya birth certificate have been maliciously created by sites such as Democratic Underground, designed to discredit the Kenya birth certificate theyve been un-bunked as well.
Having not actually seeing the Kenya birth certificate, and its chain of evidence, no intellectually-honest person can say if its real or not. By the same token, none of us have seen or touched the short-form Certification of Live Birth that has appeared on Obamas Fight the Smears or FactCheck.org websites.
No one can confirm the chain of evidence of Obamas Certification of Live Birth that has appeared online, which is the abbreviated-version of Obamas true, 1961, original long-form(s) Certificate of Live Birth and associated vital statistics records. Even the Hawaii Department of Health directly refuses to verify Obamas online COLBs.
The Eighth Witness, Lucas Daniel Smith,
Thank you, I can see that now.
I sure as hell care about his birth certificate but it fails to yield results and is
now being mocked by our own people.
I also realize defining natural born seems almost as elusive as fetching his
birth certificate. To my knowledge our Supreme Court has never clarified that
definition. Pressing the issue may force them to do so.
I yield to your technical expertise. Now what do you think about the issue at hand?
Boy oh boy you have it it out of the park.
Now what the hell can we all do about it.
An odd comment; given your FR name. . .save you no doubt made it; in the same spirit, the 'non issue' was offered.
I knew BOR had nothing. He researched it....pfttt. Jerk.
The newspaper announcements mean nothing.
The Rove’s fear the constitutional crisis that would erupt when the Kenyan Impostor is exposed. The damage the Manchurian Candidate Kenyan is doing, its worse.
My irritation is that Congress, when told of the facts (openly admitted by the candidate), does not so much as make an open inquiry into the effect on eligibility, of having a non-citizen parent, and for at least some formative years, being raised in a foreign country.
Never questioned, is a dual citizen at birth, eligible?
NOT EVEN QUESTIONED?
It's a farce alright. And one reason the birther bills are apt to die is that the bills raise the point the OP did - dual citizenship at birth is a disqualifier. Obama does not possess the qualifications; and NONE of the people in Congress even asked themselves, or saw to it that an inquiry was held. Contrast, a Senate Resolution for McCain; which, incidentally, focused on the citizenship of his parents.
Congress spits on the constitution, I spit on Congress, and the president. Illegitimate. Void.
Asked and answered! Yes, YOU are crazy!
People like Trump or OReilly who only bring up the Birth Certificate are Phonies who do it for the Publicity. If you dont talk about the Lack of records for Obama his Mother his so called father ,his Grandparents etc. then forget it you are a Fraud. Why would someone pay lawyers Millions to cover up Benign Records
Obama lied, possum died.
YOU BET this can of worms needs to be opened.
The dims have put up progressively worse and worse human beings as candidates. They got away with getting baraq into the White House with all his records sealed and his questionable background. The next dim candidate could be anything maybe an outright fanatical islamist born in kenya or something. makes ya think.
His birth certificate is only the tip of the iceburg. Did he give up his citizenship when he became an Indonesian citizen? Is he a dual citizen? Why the multiple SSNs? This needs to be settled in court but the judges are bending over backwards for rectalcranial inversion to avoid it.
They could; but they won’t. It would doom Obama.
I’ll be HAPPY to answer yer question.
“Only those who think LAWS and the CONSTITUTION and the RULE OF LAW have meaning anymore!”
You didn't read the whole thing did you?
A good definition of insanity -
Hmmm... so we keep electing Republicans over and over again and expect different results ....
My expectation is that this will be the Swiftboat issue for 2012. The politicians won’t touch it but some credible organization will rise up and start collecting money including some of mine and start running ads. There is no way this will not be an issue in 2012. It will up to the American people to decide if O is a fraud and they are going have the information they need to make that decision.
muddler wrote: "Obama lied, possum died." ROTFLOL
0bama and his cronies have done a good job of putting the burden of proof on everyone else.
He should be the one to demonstrate that he is eligible for the office. Anything less should warrant his removal. He has been able to get away with this by playing on the weaknesses of the scotus and congress, the two branches that should be leading the investigation.
ping for later digestion
Has anyone produced an actual copy of either newspaper announcement? I've only seen the microfiche copies which mean what? That someone altered the fiche?
I'd need to see the 'real deal' newspaper before I'd accept the validity of the birth announcement.
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