Skip to comments.The 999 plan – pass the plan and read it later
Posted on 10/13/2011 3:53:13 PM PDT by TLittlefella
Cains website is scant (at best) describing his 999 proposal. Pelosi said pass the plan
and read it later and the damn fools did exactly that. With the scant details provided by
Cains 999 there is little difference between those damn fools and those of us touting the
mysterious 999 plan.
Individual Flat Tax 9%
Gross income less charitable deductions
Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in
Retirement income Is that subject to the 9% tax?
Social Security Income Is that subject to the 9% tax?
Disability Income received by returning disabled war heroes Is that subject to the 9%
Child Support Received - Is that subject to the 9% tax?
Cains website does not say these incomes are exempt so are we to assume they are not?
Gross income less charitable deductions does this mean all charities? I can see a lot of
new charities emerging. Perhaps even charities openly hostile to the American way of
life. It seems odd to me that Cain favors charitable deductions over mortgage interest
deductions. The hell with the American dream of owning a home, lets be a nation of
Empowerment Zone deductions there is little doubt what class of people this will favor
National Sales Tax 9%
Cains website does not list a single exemption from this tax.
Will buying a new home be taxed? Oh, I forgot, we are not buying homes anymore we
have become a nation of renters.
Buying a new car will add 9% to the state sales tax for many of us. Hell if we are renting
we may as well all use cabs for transportation to escape the 9% sales tax. Using a cab will
even save us the added 9% to the $4 a gallon of gas we need for a car. And we wont
need to buy tires, oil changes, etc. all subject to the 9% sales tax.
I just had a yard sale and sold my lawn mower for $100. Who is responsible to collect the
$9 sales tax from the buyer? What form will I use to file the $9 sales tax I owe? Maybe I
could collect the $9 sales tax from the buyer and use that same $9 to pay the income tax I
For sure Cain is aware of the many questions associated with his plan. Yet his website
remains very lacking in details. This is troubling. We dont need verbal details from Cain
on various talk shows, we need written answers on his website.
Cain will often tell us he will surround himself with knowledgeable people to fill the gaps
in his lacking knowledge about any given subject. This is a great concept and I agree with
it 100%. The problem comes when you dont scrutinize those gap filling ideas and that is
what happened with Cain and the Lowrie produced 999 plan. Cain failed to fully
understand the impact on the middle class, he probably saw the impact on the lower class
and threw in the Empowerment Zones exemption as a fix.
The 999 plan is unlikely to ever pass in Congress. It is Cains apparent lack of
understanding the impact of such a plan would have on the average American that troubles
Cain - a great man
with a terrible plan
Art Laffer endorsed 999. Just saying
Art doesn’t hold an economic candle to tlittlefella.
Well, what would one expect from a neophyte...
Yep, forget about Paul Ryan and Art Laffer.
As they say, so goes tlittlefella...
40% of the cost of everything you buy, from a home to a car to a toothbrush is tax upon tax upon tax. When the GNP is 10 trillion dollars and the government spends 4 trillion dollars ...where do you think the 4 trillion comes from?
Buy a car? 40% of the cost is layers of taxes assessed on the earnings of everyone involved from the guys that dug the ore out of the ground to the guy attaching the windshield.
People like you need to get a clue.
The same person who currently collects sales tax for your illicit crack cocaine transactions.
If you don’t know the details of the plan as you have just admittted to everyone then how can you call it a terrible plan?
Back to the drawing board for you. Sheeze...
I don’t think that Cain’s 9-9-9 plan is the center of the attraction for Cain supporters. I think that it’s more the fact that Cain came into this race with a plan and stands by it without waivering, through all the criticism.
If the 9-9-9 plan is unworkable, it won’t pass Congress, but it will force Congress to take a serious look at reforming the tax code.
The draw for Cain is that people think that he is trustworthy. Something they haven’t seen in a politician for a very long time.
We are 13 months away from the election.
The Hermanator is introducing general principles and sparking a debate on whether that is the right direction to go in.
That is exactly what we should be doing now. The parallel you are trying to draw to Obamacare is stupid.
I believe I read the 999 plan doesn’t count used items as taxable. Or maybe I just dreamt it.
Yeah! Cain is a ‘neophyte’!
The real answer is a stuttering, corrupt, imbecilic, ‘expert’ from Texas who can’t string 3 words together into a coherent sentence.
Unfortunately, the only thing Rick Perry seems to be well trained in is taking a great debut and frittering it away into a race with Jon Huntsman for 1%.
Exactly right. I have issues with 9-9-9 myself. I still like Cain though.
I like Cain. But is his 9% sales tax on top of my 7% local sales tax? That’s 17% on everything I purchase...
Cain's proposal is at least a serious attempt to do away with the abomination which is our Federal Tax Code. I think I, nearing retirement, would come out behind. If that's the case, so be it. The country, going forward, would be better off. If we all stick to a "What's in it for me" attitude, we'll never escape the Welfare State the establishment has foisted upon us.
Don’t tell me. Tell TLittlefella.
The “9-9-9” plan is a proposal, not a full-scale legislative bill ready for submission to the US Congress.
It would take years, and a considerable change in attitudes, before this or any similar plan may be accepted by the legislative branch. So far, we have “think tank” appraisal of the merits and flaws of this proposal, and nothing is set in stone.
Before ANY taxation scheme is ever agreed to, a Balanced Budget Act resulting in an amendment to the US Constitution has to be in place. As of now, there is nothing that prevents Congress from making an end run around this or any other tax proposal, and raising or modifying it on a simple majority vote. Requiring a two-thirds concurrence of BOTH Houses of Congress, and Presidential approval, tends to make any changes to the level of spending or assessment of new taxes compliant to a much higher threshhold.
Time we were talking about spreading the burden of supporting the government widely enough so EVERYBODY has “skin in the game”. Paying for government is not only the province of the wealthy, you know, because there is no reliable way of taxing wealth. With the right incentives, great wealth may be harnessed for the benefit of all.
But the “all” have to provide their capability to carry the load too. And a consumption tax falls on the wealthy and less wealthy alike.
My feelings exactly.
999, in the real world, translates to:
1) Pass the national sales tax, while keeping the income tax too.
2) Trust Congress not to raise tax rates anymore.
Hey, what could go wrong?
I am excited about it because FINALLY a wanna-be elected official is talking about serious tax reform again.
Cain's plan may not be perfect--or even doable--but it is certainly the conversation that needs to happen.
You didn’t dream it. If you don’t want to pay the tax for a new car then buy a used one.
“I just had a yard sale and sold my lawn mower for $100. Who is responsible to collect the $9 sales tax from the buyer? “
Nobody because there would be no tax on used items. Only on new, retail items.
As it says on Cain’s page.
“I like Cain. But is his 9% sales tax on top of my 7% local sales tax? Thats 17% on everything I purchase...”
So you’re alright with paying massive taxes as long as they’re hidden and buried in the retail price?
OBVIOUS taxes are the problem?
Because I promise you, you’re paying more then 9% in hidden taxes with every item that you buy.
9% will be less.
9-9-9 will “force Congress to take a serious look at reforming the tax code.” Says who?
I doubt this thing would ever be presented to Congress. It’s a publicity gimmick.
After Congress and Senate get done with it, can you guarantee that this new tax plan won’t include used items?
When the drawing board is blank with details, as is the 999 plan - it is terrible. As Bachmann said "the devil is in the details" and there are no details of the 999 plan.
What about the 34% corporations pay to make products you buy, you don’t think that increases your outgoing expenditures?
Ronald Regan would tell Art Laffer to run around to the other end of the curve and get his ass VERIFYING the 999 PLAN now that Art has TRUSTED it.
Hang on, let me get this straight. You are dissing the plan based on the fact that the Congress and the Senate might add things you don't like. On that basis, how can you approve of any idea from any presidential contender?
There wouldn’t be tax on used items. The tax was collected when it was new.
What don’t you understand about the fact 40% of the cost of everything you buy is tax upon tax. The 9/9/9 plan would reduce the total tax you pay. As an example, 40% of the cost of a new car represents costs of taxes passed on at every stage of building the car, from digging the ore out to putting the windshield on. Cain’s proposal is to reduce that 40% to at most 27% of the cost. When the GDP is 10 trillion and the government collects 4 trillion, where do you think that 4 trillion is hiding in the economy? It is right there in front of your nose - 40% of the cost of everything you buy.
The itialized part of my post, the part that says - I just had a yard sale and sold my lawn mower for $100. Who is responsible to collect the $9 sales tax from the buyer? was from TLittlefella's vanity article. I was quoting his material.
Either you intended your comment for TLittlefella or you are posting while on a crack binge. You should really go back to rehab.
I hope this helps.
Didn’t you post this same stuff a few days ago?
Im not a moron. I just wanted clarification.
Do you pay any federal income tax? What percentage of your income do you turn over to the feds without ever getting a chance to make a decision on how to spend it?
Here’s one for ya. I also went to the site and saw little of nothing for such a grand plan.
Good post. You may get some heat. But perhaps some will settle down and put on their thinking caps.
Yes, I posted something similar - today I'm looking for the facts - facts that I thought the last debate would bring forward - but the other candidates did not go there, they let Cain escape with general non specific answers.
That is a very good point. An excellent one, in fact. I've been worried that Cain has tied himself too closely to this plan for exactly the reason you bring up. But I've been thinking too many steps ahead.
Thanks. You've changed my mind, and that's a rare occurrence.
Just how many specifics did you expect out of that stupid debate format? "Mr. Cain, please lay out all the specifics to every single aspect of your 999 plan. You have thirty seconds."
How about these three questions for a simple 30 second answer:
Mr. Cain, What income if any will be exempt from the 9%
Mr. Cain, What sales (homes, etc) if any will be exempt
Mr. Cain, What are Empowerment Zones?
Not anything like a 9% sales tax. For a typical American business the federal corporate income tax is less than 5% of their gross revenue. So even if the business was able to set the price of the goods in the market (rare unless they are a monopoly) and they passed all of their savings on to the consumers, you'd see something in the order of a 5% price reduction. But you'd have to pay the 9% sales tax.
Most of your rant is about things that have nothing to do with the 9-9-9 proposal. The sales taxes is on new item sales only; it's been stated and written many times in many venues. Sell your lawn mower? No sales tax. Buy an older home? No sales tax. Buy a pre-owned car? No sales tax.
I heartily agree more detail needs to be posted to the site. Clearly there's a more detailed version than outlined because Cain said he had it independently scored.
You're attacking him on something you say will never get passed anyway. Obviously you oppose Cain so who are you for?
Who is the moron that wrote this piece? He doesnt even know there is no tax on used stuff and proposes to tell us about the plan? Oy!
No tax on used items.
When the car manufacturers start complaining about the unfair advantage of purchasing used cars, you bet that there will be a sales tax on used cars shortly after this plan, god forbid, would ever by made law.
Then used clothes, books, etc. You know, just like states with sales tax have.
Yeah, and you dont pay when corporate taxes are increased either right?
This is not stated on Cain's website - forget about verbal guesses - Cain needs to state in writing on his website no sales tax on used items. Until he does so it is just rumors and speculation.
Obviously you oppose Cain so who are you for?
To the contrary, I was impressed with Cain in the early stages, but the longer time goes on without details on his website about the 999 plan the more I distrust him.
May I respectfully ask that you propose something better? I think if we want to save this country from the coming economic disaster we need to do something about the current repressive job killing redistribution scheme that Congress uses to enslave us and reward their cronies. I know that Cain’s plan is by no means perfect and stands little chance even in a Republican controlled Congress, but I’d rather not elect another smug politician willing to nibble at the edges of the problem and tell us that kicking the can to our children is a much better plan.