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Is Newt Gingrich's recovery for real?
Yahoo News ^ | 11/17/11 | John A. Tures

Posted on 11/17/2011 9:54:01 PM PST by johnatures

COMMENTARY | Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich's rebound in the polls is real enough. The question is whether conservative Republicans are simply trying him out as the newest anti-Mitt Romney candidate, or whether he is about to be the newest Republican for the 2012 nomination.

Recent polls show the ex-Georgia congressman has made a tremendous recovery in the polls, passing former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and ex-CEO Herman Cain with 23 percent of the vote, according to a Nov. 16 Fox News poll. Other surveys, such as the show a tighter race, but nobody disputes Gingrich's strong recovery from earlier stumbles. The question is how he got back into the nomination race.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Campaign News; Parties; Polls
KEYWORDS: blog; circularfiringsquad; mittromney; newtgingrich; polls; republican
One reason is due to the stumbles of others. Whether it is mangling American history, or being clueless about foreign policy, or forgetting one of three agencies to be cut, the other candidates wilt under the bright lights. In the onslaught of debates, Newt Gingrich has consistently shown a grasp of the facts, the historical context, great one-liners (like buying Greek bonds if Obama wins).

Another factor is experience. Outside of Ron Paul, Gingrich has about as many years in national office or leadership roles as all of the others combined.

Race was a problem for Newt Gingrich early, as he labeled Obama "the food stamp president" while the media saw that as a signal for coded racism. Gingrich was able to neutralize that, at least among Republicans, with those professional Lincoln-Douglas debates with Herman Cain.

Finally, Gingrich has put his early mistakes behind him. Expensive charge accounts and lavish trips aren't smart moves in a slow recovery, but these goofs are not illegal, and now they're old news.

1 posted on 11/17/2011 9:54:05 PM PST by johnatures
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To: johnatures
Everyone seems to have forgotten the Dede Scozzafava issue that happened as recently as 2009.
2 posted on 11/17/2011 9:58:34 PM PST by ThermoNuclearWarrior (Support Herman Cain in the Republican Primary! Donate and Campaign for Herman Cain!)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

And your guy Herman Cain endorsed Romney as recently as 2008. So what?


3 posted on 11/17/2011 10:02:01 PM PST by Josh Painter ("The only thing these 'investments' will get us is a bullet train to bankruptcy." - Palin)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

Cain/Newt ‘12 and then we drop him for Cain/Rubio ‘16 for Cain’s second term.

Rubio/Ryan ‘20 & ‘24


4 posted on 11/17/2011 10:02:42 PM PST by CainConservative
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To: johnatures

Why not just put all the nominees name on a wall and then put a blindfold on somebody and give them a dart?


5 posted on 11/17/2011 10:04:45 PM PST by Eye of Unk (E-Cat is the future, unless we want to live in the past.)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior

Some have, not all.

“Newt is smart, quick on his feet, a good debater, but otherwise is a genuine phony.” 9 posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2011 2:56:09 PM by Jim Robinson


6 posted on 11/17/2011 10:15:25 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

I believe Newt has been a player. He didn’t see the Tea Party strength anywhere near soon enough, but fell in with the standard for Republican DC behavior, and simply supported the (R) behind her name. He wrote his climate book back in the same mind set of trying to do the middle of the road thing and entertained foolishness.

If, he has finally seen the enabling going on of RINO think in Congress in its contribution to the advancement of facism and Marxisim, and the abysmal failure to put a stop to these Leftist movements, we may have someone here who can hoe a row, or two.

Certainly Newt is his own War Room capable of taking care of the opposition and the Left’s drag out of old news smears against him. For sure he is more than capable of taking down Obama in a debate. People need the breather between multiple fails on the ability of the other candidates to keep their loft when they have it.

Anyway, most believe that the actual mission is to beat Romney as soon as possible, and Obama in twelve months. We will be seeing no sure bets for awhile yet. If it’s to be Newt or Romney, Newt will be the man.


7 posted on 11/17/2011 10:38:20 PM PST by RitaOK (Rasmussen is the polling standard who owns the record on accuracy.)
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To: RitaOK

I already saw Newt in action as Speaker. No sale.


8 posted on 11/17/2011 10:39:54 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

You mean when he was the tip of the spear in the historic Republican sweep of Congress?


9 posted on 11/17/2011 10:41:42 PM PST by RitaOK (Rasmussen is the polling standard who owns the record on accuracy.)
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To: RitaOK

No, I mean when he was on the back of Bubba’s plane whining.


10 posted on 11/17/2011 10:47:07 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

“I already saw Newt in action as Speaker. No sale.”

So did I...
I saw he led the 1992 “Republican Revolution”, and the Contract for America.

He led the charge against Bill Clinton and his illegalites, which earned him the hate and ire of the National Media.

He led the charge FOR Welfare reform, passing THREE bills before getting one Clinton was forced to sign, and against HillaryCare.

He shut down the government over the Balanced Budget Plan, and was thoroughly pillaried by the mainstream media for it.

He FORCED Bill Clinton to present a BALANCED Budget, for the first time since 1969. He forced Clinton to sign the Capital Gains Tax Cut, as well.

And also, lest ye forget, it was TOM FOLEY and the Republican ESABLISHMENT who led the charge against Gingrich to resign, because they wanted the power to create a Shadow Party money network, just like the DC Dems had.

I am surprised so many Freepers forget how hard he fought against Clinton, and the Radical Democrats.


11 posted on 11/17/2011 11:00:50 PM PST by tcrlaf (Election 2012: THE RAPTURE OF THE DEMOCRATS)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

Yes, the Left used that well and won over fools with a mole hill. I’m not a Newt defender, however, as I am both a fan and a critic and have seen it all with Newt, but I haven’t a clue who among the field will be on top next, or again, or in twelve months. I am not yet a Cain supporter. In fact, where is everyone lately? Posts are very slow coming and nobody I know is on threads? What’s up with that? Maybe my PC is acting up on the slow loads?


12 posted on 11/17/2011 11:06:48 PM PST by RitaOK (Rasmussen is the polling standard who owns the record on accuracy.)
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To: tcrlaf

You can spare me the arguments. Heard ‘em all. I know, I used to defend him, too. I learned my lesson. No sale.


13 posted on 11/17/2011 11:10:02 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: RitaOK; BillyBoy; Impy; Dengar01

I just find it astonishing why I’d have to explain to ANY true-blue FReeper why Newt is a no-go. Unfortunately, we’re going to be treated to a litany of talking points and other rationalizations with respect to his candidacy by his booster club, and it still doesn’t cut the mustard. He had his moment in the sun, he led the GOP to a majority, but he folded in the budget showdown and all but handed Bubba a second term. He then skulked off when he couldn’t even win a third term (despite his repeated panderings to the left of the party).

I’ve been thoroughly repulsed and disgusted by his post-Congressional behavior, his desperation to be loved and accepted by the media/big government establishment**, his personal life shenanigans, his thumbing his nose at the Conservative grassroots and on and on (the Dede Scuzzyfava incident was the final straw for me, and no excuse can be made for it, none). He’s an almost 70-year old man grasping for one final attempt at glory for which he is neither entitled to nor deserving of. Simply put, I do not trust him.

We know the goal is to prevent Slick Willard from getting the nomination... but so is stopping all the other RINO prima donnas who have no business running for President (from Perry to Newt, etc.). Herman Cain is an outside-the-box choice, something truly different, and I’m willing to take a chance on him and give him the benefit of the doubt. Someone from outside the political culture who hails from the business world. He also presents a visceral threat to the political establishment (one for whom is unthreatened by people like Willard, Perry, Newt...), and that is a big plus in my book. It won’t be Newt who finally leads Blacks away from the Democrat Plantation unlike the other lily-White sixtysomethings.

As for your query about postings, I’m not sure what to say. FR seems to be loading fine for me, although you do have a point about these strangers (or infrequent posters, if not n00bs) showing up lately. They have certainly been noticeably absent for many of the vetting periods as of late and in the past.


14 posted on 11/17/2011 11:26:52 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

Well, I must say that I am beginning to wonder if FR has run off everyone, finally, who isn’t in the tank for Cain.
It is just eerily quiet from supporters of Bachman, Santorum, Perry, even Newt. With Cain’s demise and Perry’s demise and Bachman’s, befuddlement must rule. Articles use to come up a half dozen at a time all night long, and there is plenty of news today.

I don’t know about Cain yet. He seems exhausted from the grueling grilling of the Gloria’s girlie garbage gushers.
Maybe he can make a come back. Perry has gotten aggresive but no one seems to be listening, so the news follows the wordy one—Newt. I dunno. Maybe we start all over and keep recycling, in order, Bachman, Perry, Cain and Newt. Whoever comes out on top with perfect timing by election day wins.


15 posted on 11/17/2011 11:54:08 PM PST by RitaOK (Rasmussen is the polling standard who owns the record on accuracy.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
It is rare for someone who objects to Newt Gingrich to actually compare him to another candidate. I credit you for having done so although not persuasively. At least you tacitly recognize a constraint to choose among a finite class of candidates and to make a choice of relative advantage.

You suggest that Herman Cain is superior but you offer no other reason except that he is a businessman and that he is "an outside-the-box choice, something truly different...." In other words, he is an unknown quantity to the degree that we must "take a chance" by nominating him and, God help us, by electing him.

These are not times for indulging whims of this sort. The nation is in the throes of one of its greatest, even existential crises. Herman Cain simply has not demonstrated the breadth of knowledge or the depth of intellect necessary to guide the country through a perfect storm of economic disasters which are imperiling our very capitalist system. Nor is he a man who has demonstrated a capacity to guide the nation through a multigenerational war with fanatical, suicidal, and aggressive Islam determined to put an end to the American culture.

That is why a plurality of the party is unwilling to join you in taking a chance on this man. That is why the party is moving toward selecting Newt Gingrich as the best relative candidate among a finite field of three to take the helm of the ship of state on a tempest tossed sea.

Yes Gingrich is 68, but Cain has had cancer. It is a chimera to believe that Herman Cain will make any significant inroads into Obama's hold on the African-American vote. He will have no more effect than did Michael Steele. That vote is as amenable to reason as is the Arab street. Any compromise away from winning other demographics, especially the Hispanic vote, to gain the African-American vote will only cost us an election so long as Barak Obama is the candidate and probably for a long time thereafter.

Since we must pick from among a finite field, that means that we have to judge the relative advantage and disadvantage of the candidates. You express disapproval of Gingrich's "shenanigans" but I for one believe the charges against Herman Cain concerning sexual harassment and I will say that a good part of the electorate will too. Gingrich at least married the gal. If you want a monogamous candidate, and that is your only criterion, Mitt Romney is clearly your man. But Romney is not your man because, relatively speaking, his other disadvantages outweigh that advantage, even in your eyes.

Concededly, we are engaging in a purely subjective exercise. Each conservative will have to examine his heart and, I hope, exercise his brain. There is certainly no scope for excoriating another conservative because his subjective judgment on this matter is different from mine.

A plurality of conservatives and Republicans are moving toward the judgment that Gingrich as the best relative choice. I hope those considerations include three factors: electability, conservative bona fides, and vision. These are the standards upon which I make my choice among these candidates and on these tests Gingrich comes out way ahead.


16 posted on 11/18/2011 12:16:23 AM PST by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: fieldmarshaldj; All
Of course to the 2011 Newt is a NEW man!! Well you see, the 90s era Newt is no more (plus the Dede Scozzafava loving Newt from last year is no more as well), as his fan club has explained. He's reformed himself. This Newt has learned his lesson and cleaned up his act. He'll NEVER cave to liberals again (even though he was sucking up to them as recently as last year). Forget his (endless amount) of past sins. Newt found Jesus and sought forgiveness, and John Paul II is now his role model, and all of this religious conversion has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact he married a Catholic. Speaking of wife Callista (he sure speaks of her every sentence), Newt will never stray on her with a soon-to-be Mrs. Gingrich #4. Nevermind that he did it twice in a row for his first two marriages. Newt has an ace-in-the-hole now. He simply replaced Callista's brain wtih a robot brain so she'll be a good stepford wife! Now he can devout himself full time to serving America. No way will this babe ever give Newt the cold shoulder (unless her batteries need changing):



17 posted on 11/18/2011 12:28:20 AM PST by BillyBoy (Rick Perry, the governor with a heart... for illegal aliens.)
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To: RitaOK; Dengar01; BillyBoy; Clintonfatigued; Clemenza; Impy; darkangel82; campaignPete R-CT; ...

Well, not like I’d complain too much... ;-) I never saw a particularly large contingent here for Bachmann or Santorum (Bachmann I had as a backup choice about tied with Cain if Palin didn’t get in, but she seemed to just lose steam, although I’d readily admit that not having executive business experience or Gubernatorial was a drawback for her, the House is a terrible place to launch a Presidential campaign from — the last Republican to do so was James Garfield in 1880, and he was already a Senator-elect).

The Perry people have gotten noticeably quiet (which I’m certainly not misty over), but the Newt people have been coming out of the woodwork as of late.

I do think Cain was able to handle and disarm the allegations. I tend not to trust most media reports on him, anyway. If he was so easy for Zero to beat, they’d be pimping his candidacy (note how the media fawns all over the career politician White guys in the race, they’ll take any of ‘em — just before they shred them AFTER the nomination). If by some chance Cain genuinely bottoms out, me personally, I’ll offer the same suggestion I did in 2008 after Fred Thompson dropped out... demand a new set of candidates chosen by the Conservative grassroots base to be haggled over at the RNC convention (which used to be done in the old days).

Just as an aside, perhaps it’s time we make it so a candidate CAN’T declare for President... that he/she has to be “drafted” without any links to those doing the drafting. Offer up, say, 500 names to start from, from the business world, military, academia, Governors, Congress, and start a process of elimination until we get down to 10, and then allow those 10 to run in a primary.

Imagine a contest this year with these names:

Herman Cain
Rep. Allen West (FL)
ex-Gov. Sarah Palin (AK)
Justice Clarence Thomas
Gov. Scott Walker (WI)
Prof. Walter Williams
Dr. Thomas Sowell
Sen. Jim DeMint (SC)
Rep. Michelle Bachmann (MN)
David or Charles Koch
Gen. David Petraeus

In almost every instance you could say, “These are good choices, these guys are Conservative.” No matter who wins the nomination, we can live with it and not be disappointed and threaten to refuse to vote for them in the general. No more getting saddled with RINOs, liberals, prima donnas and the like.


18 posted on 11/18/2011 12:28:31 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: nathanbedford; RitaOK; Clemenza; Crichton; AuH2ORepublican; BlackElk; EternalVigilance; Impy; ...
"It is rare for someone who objects to Newt Gingrich to actually compare him to another candidate. I credit you for having done so although not persuasively. At least you tacitly recognize a constraint to choose among a finite class of candidates and to make a choice of relative advantage."

And given that class of subpar choices, it was a very easy one to make. This is very close to a repeat of 2008, which was outrageously execrable.

"You suggest that Herman Cain is superior but you offer no other reason except that he is a businessman and that he is "an outside-the-box choice, something truly different...." In other words, he is an unknown quantity to the degree that we must "take a chance" by nominating him and, God help us, by electing him."

Put it this way, I already know what we'll get with most of the rest. Again, why it was very easy to go with something new and something different. If he turns out to be a terrible President, we can take comfort in the fact that all the other choices will be just as dreadful in their performances.

"These are not times for indulging whims of this sort. The nation is in the throes of one of its greatest, even existential crises."

True, but we've had many difficult times with an election at a pivotal moment. We have got to change course, that much is certain, but entrusting that change to occur with the same-old, same-old failed political establishment types is sheer folly. I think Cain could pledge to serve a single term, and devote that time exclusively to moving us in a new direction rather than being in perpetual campaign mode.

"Herman Cain simply has not demonstrated the breadth of knowledge or the depth of intellect necessary to guide the country through a perfect storm of economic disasters which are imperiling our very capitalist system. Nor is he a man who has demonstrated a capacity to guide the nation through a multigenerational war with fanatical, suicidal, and aggressive Islam determined to put an end to the American culture."

I disagree. I think he does. In fact, he appeared to be the only candidate to address that latter issue early on. I can tell you that I don't trust any of the others running to do so.

"That is why a plurality of the party is unwilling to join you in taking a chance on this man. That is why the party is moving toward selecting Newt Gingrich as the best relative candidate among a finite field of three to take the helm of the ship of state on a tempest tossed sea."

Again, pure folly. He had his shot and he blew it. He pledged to take on the culture of DC and instead, he all but gave in and has forever sought their approval. Just because he can give a good debate and put on a show doesn't justify willfully ignoring everything else he has been wrong in doing (and that's before we even get to the three marriages). To put it crudely, the thought of Newt running for, let alone serving as, President produces a three-letter response, "WTF ?" This guy left office massively unpopular and is a thorough joke to grassroots Conservatives who have followed his post-Congressional career with slack-jawed bewilderment. Simply put, he has been assimilated by the dark side. I don't care what he says, it's the same kinda "I found Jesus" talk that criminals and RINOs engage in. You know the saying about being fooled twice.

"Yes Gingrich is 68, but Cain has had cancer."

And at last check, it is in remission. McCain battled cancer, too, and he's still with us (for better or for worse). Cheney battled poor health from his 30s onward. We have to presume their physicians gave them the OK to mount a race or would not be doing so. My point about Gingrich, whom is older than Cain, is that (like Perry & Willard), these are yet more of the same stereotypical old (sixtysomething) White guys that the media and pop culture consistently lampoon us over. None of these guys have demonstrated that they have something special within them to alter the current dynamics, either in DC, or with the voting public. Old and predictable. To the media/political establishment, it is only acceptable to them for us to nominate these old White guys. They're terrified if we go outside the box... a woman (Palin) or a Black man (Cain). Terrified to hysterical proportions. They know that those kinds of candidates can break out of the mold and create a new kind of dynamic. The leftist media and political establishment are the ultimate reactionaries against REAL change for the better.

"It is a chimera to believe that Herman Cain will make any significant inroads into Obama's hold on the African-American vote. He will have no more effect than did Michael Steele."

Steele was viscerally incompetent, he was my almost near dead-last choice for party chairman (with Katon Dawson and Ken Blackwell being my top two picks of the time). No one expects Cain to somehow flip a 90%+ Democrat allegiance to an even split in one election. But if he starts to chip away at it, 15%, 20%, 25%, that seemingly small amount starts to have a profound impact for the long run. The Democrats CAN'T lose 20-25%+ of the Black vote. But one thing we know... put up a Gingrich or Willard type, and we'll never begin to make those inroads we will have to make for the long term. With the changing demographics, it is suicide for the Republican Party not to begin to make those inroads.

"That vote is as amenable to reason as is the Arab street. Any compromise away from winning other demographics, especially the Hispanic vote, to gain the African-American vote will only cost us an election so long as Barak Obama is the candidate and probably for a long time thereafter."

You're talking about compromise with respect to moving to the left. I am not. Half the reason we fare so poorly amongst Blacks is simple... we don't ask for their vote, we don't campaign for it, and we don't appear serious in WANTING it. The party has been especially guilty in halfhearted attempts to make inroads. Occasionally, we might put up a candidate with appeal, but we don't give them the support they need to win (money, GOTV, you name it). We can then say we "ran" candidates, but the (Black Community, et al) didn't "want" them. Nonsense. There's a part of the party establishment that doesn't want "those" people in it holding office. I absolutely believe there is an element of the GOP that is racist. I think some of it comes out in the opposition to Cain.

"Since we must pick from among a finite field, that means that we have to judge the relative advantage and disadvantage of the candidates. You express disapproval of Gingrich's "shenanigans" but I for one believe the charges against Herman Cain concerning sexual harassment and I will say that a good part of the electorate will too."

I believe the allegations against Cain are not only without substance, but reflected the above racism I cited, albeit more from the racist left media standpoint (though it is entirely plausible someone from within the GOP wanting one of those establishment candidates, horrified at the notion of a Black man as a standard bearer, was responsible for the "leak"). There is no way in hell the media would've aired such allegations against Obama in 2008 without having been attacked by their own colleagues as racist (nevermind their failure to thoroughly examine the homosexual allegations made). The charges against Cain are already "yesterday's news."

"Gingrich at least married the gal."

Doncha mean "gals" ? We know Newt's track record of marital fidelity is decidedly lacking. I think the public might be forgiving of once, but when it goes multiple, that looks bad. Giuliani went through three marriages, too, and I similarly assailed him for how that looked to the base of the GOP (worse, yet, as Giuliani is a Catholic and Newt a convert, that will really rub those constituencies who adhere to doctrine on marriage the wrong way). But that's just the icing on top.

"If you want a monogamous candidate, and that is your only criterion, Mitt Romney is clearly your man. But Romney is not your man because, relatively speaking, his other disadvantages outweigh that advantage, even in your eyes."

His immorality manifests itself in other ways, as we have seen.

"Concededly, we are engaging in a purely subjective exercise. Each conservative will have to examine his heart and, I hope, exercise his brain. There is certainly no scope for excoriating another conservative because his subjective judgment on this matter is different from mine."

Well, the question must be asked, "Are they Conservative ?" I was "corrected" some weeks ago in a discussion of Hollywood politics when I pointed out that decades ago, Warner Bros. was considered the "Democrat" studio under Jack Warner... Warner claimed to be a Republican I was told. Yet Warner consistently supported Democrats (and left-wingers at that) and in only one instance could be shown as having supported a Republican, only to then turn around and pander to the Democrat victor. People can call themselves whatever they want, but their actions determine if they truly are what they claim to be.

"A plurality of conservatives and Republicans are moving toward the judgment that Gingrich as the best relative choice. I hope those considerations include three factors: electability, conservative bona fides, and vision. These are the standards upon which I make my choice among these candidates and on these tests Gingrich comes out way ahead."

And it is, for reasons I've cited above and elsewhere, why Gingrich is simply unacceptable as a Presidential candidate, and that there is virtually nothing he can do to change that perspective. His choices and actions are why that conclusion is the only one that can be reached. The rest can be dismissed out of hand as "just talk."

19 posted on 11/18/2011 1:23:58 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: BillyBoy

Yeeeeoww. Forgot to ping you to post #19...


20 posted on 11/18/2011 1:25:52 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
Good points. Cain is still my first vote, although I do think he has hurt himself badly with some of his foreign policy comments. Again, this is where Newt, the bookworm, shines, so the comparison is stark.

Cain has to constantly reaffirm two things: CONSERVATISM and anti-Obamaism. And I think DJ this is what rubs you about Newt. Whether you like him or not, he has been the most consistently outspoken anti-OBAMA candidate, at every debate even singing the praises of his GOP competitors over Obama---something all of them have been loathe to do. I think that has earned him a lot of credibility and affection in the eyes of the tea party types.

It's not to late for Cain, just as prior to the last two weeks it wasn't too late for Perry (it is now). But Herman absolutely has to make more sense when it comes to foreign policy and apply basic conservative values: al-Qaeda is worse than an impotent dictator; no one who doesn't pose a direct threat to us or our troops is worth new military adventures; finish the wars we have strong; all options on the table with Iran, especially supporting Israel.

21 posted on 11/18/2011 2:10:40 AM PST by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: johnatures

Obama and the media are performing their own version of Operation Chaos. As soon as anyone takes a lead they attack them back to the pack, thus assuring that the R candidates themselves, and their willing accomplices in the conservative movement, will continue to tear each other to shreds. Nice job. peeps...


22 posted on 11/18/2011 3:33:44 AM PST by ez ("Abashed the Devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." - Milton, "Paradise Lost")
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To: fieldmarshaldj
The polls are telling us that Herman Cain was a bright, shiny new thing which has lost its luster. That is largely unfair, I think, and somewhat due to the use of scurrilous charges of sexual harassment. I call the charges scurrilous not because I disbelieve them but because I disapprove of law and the culture which has imposed this kind of political correctness on us and given us over to a witchhunt which we now see played out against Herman Cain. Of course, a physical touching is another matter and that has been alleged against Cain. My problem is that no one now should be heard 15 years later to allege a crime against someone when they failed to come forward at the time.

Nevertheless, we are not here to debate the fairness of the sexual-harassment laws we are here to select a candidate one of whom has been damaged in the area of electability by application, fairly or unfairly, of the culture created by this law.

Gingrich on his part faces much the same unfair dilemma. His first wife was six or seven years his senior and few should be surprised that that marriage did not work out. His second marriage evidently broke up because of his infidelity, or was his infidelity the result of the deterioration of the marriage? In any event, he married the gal with whom he dallied. Nevertheless, Gingrich election chances are haunted by an urban legend of the bogus scene in the hospital room. I did not expect the electorate to be knowledgeable enough to dismiss this urban legend entirely. I am not naïve, I know that smears work.

Herman Cain just found out the same truth applies to him.

Additionally, there is the ineffable matter of repentance. Christian conservatives almost by definition are committed to the doctrine of repentance and forgiveness, a subject I have explored on my about page. Conservatives will have to judge for themselves whether Gingrich has made a genuine repentance. If they assume that he has, we must then ask ourselves can you sell it to the rest of the world that does care about the necessity for repentance. Presumably, there are many independents who do not care about where Newt Gingrich put his pee pee 15 years ago. But there might be a substantial number of women, especially single women, who do care and we conservatives must calculate that on the issue of electability. The same applies to Herman Cain.

It is true that Herman Cain's cancer appears to be in remission but I recall we were told the same thing by a candidate named Paul Tsongas and, sadly, that prognosis was wrong.

I revert to your reasons for picking Cain over Gingrich and I simply cannot believe that the bulk of the Republican Party will be convinced that the man who can bring change is Herman Cain and not Newt Gingrich. We know what Gingrich has done, balanced budgets, reformed an entitlement, reduced taxes, shut down the government and engendered a revolution named after himself, just as had Ronald Reagan. To believe that Gingrich will take office and continue business as usual seems to me to represent the triumph of animosity over history.

As to the threat of militant Islam and the assertion that Herman Cain was early off the mark, Newt Gingrich was preaching on this issue long before the world heard much about Herman Cain. Indeed, Gingrich authored the report which warned of domestic attacks on the heartland which proved regrettably only two prophetic on 9/11.

We are clearly in an evolving inflection point. If Obama is reelected, the country likely will founder and we will see massive defaults, massive unemployment, massive misery. If Mitt Romney is elected he will be in the words of Newt Gingrich, a competent manager. I don't think that will be enough. If Herman Cain is elected, we will no doubt see gaffes, missteps, and an aura of incompetence that fails to inspire. The failure to inspire is absolutely critical because if the country is to survive it has to pull together under conservative leadership and undertake massive and painful reforms. We are in this mess because it was the easier way and recovery will be the harder way. We need a leader who has more to tell us about sacrifice than we must "eat our peas." Gingrich can do it, Cain cannot.

More, we face an inflection point in the political world. If we win the presidency we will likely also win the Senate, but not a filibuster proof majority. Gingrich is a proven leader who can get a program through-he did that brilliantly as Speaker of the House. If Gingrich is the president with the decent majority in both houses he can set the country on a new course which is something qualitatively different from merely undoing the harm that Obama has done. If that is the best we can muster, demographics tells us that where only one election away from the next Obama.

We need a man of Gingrich's vision who can fundamentally alter the entire course of our political adventure and to keep the within the Constitution. Neither Romney nor Cain show any promise whatsoever compared to Gingrich. If we do not fundamentally change our political system and keep it within the Constitution, the Democrats will come back and they will simply give us more of the same and the Republic will crumble.

At the end of the day it is more than a matter of electability and conservative bona fides, it turns on the matter of vision. I believe it is hard to argue that any candidate can compete with Newt Gingrich and offer a more innovative and compelling vision.


23 posted on 11/18/2011 4:04:28 AM PST by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

Thanks for the quote from Jim Robinson! He sees through Newt! I don’t want Newt!

Sarah, where are you?


24 posted on 11/18/2011 4:52:33 AM PST by Buddygirl
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To: johnatures
I'm an Herminator and this week sent Herman another donation, but if Herman fades after the first five states actually vote and Newt is the one that is standing {besides mittens} then Newt becomes my new guy.

I've supported so many candidates and non-candidates that I'm starting to feel like a teenaged girl with a new boyfriend every couple of months.

Well, the voting dates are almost here and we will soon see some clarity and formation of the field.

25 posted on 11/18/2011 5:57:26 AM PST by USS Alaska (Nuke The Terrorist Savages)
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To: nathanbedford
Superb comments from a reasoning and reasonable mind (and heart). I share your thoughts, and regret their likely limited impact. "To those who wish to believe (something), no proof is necessary, and to those who wish to disbelieve (something), no proof is sufficient".

Am reproducing a comment I made several days ago, as they relate to your posts:

"Yes. Simply regurgitating the same, over-used stump talking points doesn’t do any good, or change many minds. What we need to do is reclaim some of the empty space between many people’s ears. Reintroduce some of the ideas, principles, history, civility, morality, loss for many of self-reliance that has been so lacking in much of our educational institutions, and, too often, from one generation teaching the next."

"Simply hurling out our position and then arguing about it does not serve the larger and necessary requirements of redirecting this country back toward our formative values."

"We need people who understand our past greatness to teach those principles to ensuing generations. Otherwise, all we have is a bickering, downward-spiraling, uncivil society bent on each component getting what it can at the expense of someone else."
26 posted on 11/18/2011 6:55:42 AM PST by JimInMO
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To: Josh Painter

Cain also partly endorsed Obama in 2008. But nothing about that is being presented much around here. Had it been any other candidate, it would be thread upon thread, 24/7.


27 posted on 11/18/2011 7:05:14 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (If you come to a fork in the road, take it........)
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To: Buddygirl

Thank you for that subliminal prompt on how we are expected to think and believe. But most of us will decline. This is not our first day on the forum.


28 posted on 11/18/2011 7:13:03 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (If you come to a fork in the road, take it........)
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To: fieldmarshaldj; BillyBoy; Impy
if Mitt gets smashed worse than Dole NH '96, and Cain fades ... and it becomes a marathon primary race ... with several candidates chasing Newt, perhaps Perry winning some states.

It is not out of the question that a new candidate could enter the race. Thune, Ryan or somebody prominent.
What then, oh field marshal?


29 posted on 11/18/2011 8:20:05 AM PST by campaignPete R-CT (I will go back to New Hampshire to campaign.)
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To: LS; fieldmarshaldj; Impy; Clintonfatigued; AuH2ORepublican
Whether you like him or not, he has been the most consistently outspoken anti-OBAMA candidate, at every debate even singing the praises of his GOP competitors over Obama---something all of them have been loathe to do. I think that has earned him a lot of credibility and affection in the eyes of the tea party types.

This has been Newt's strategy from the very first debate, and it's been such an obviously cynical political ploy on his part that I wish so many people hadn't been falling for it.
1.) Avoid talking about the issues in any way that forces you to have to speak about your past crappy positions. When pressed on an important issue, like where you stand on Romneycare, do one or both of:
1a.) Attack Obama!
1b.) Attack the media!
Doing this gets you a lot of cheap pops and you get to soak up the adulation. Any candidate that tries to point out your crappy positions will look like a jerk: 'hey, don't you want to see Obama defeated?!'

2.) Since you have no following, suck up hard to the followers of all the other candidates by constantly praising all the candidates. Over time as some of those candidates falter, you'll siphon off enough support from them to actually have a following of your own.
Newt talks a good game, but where's the beef? Remember a few weeks ago when @#$^! Romney made him look like a lying fool at the debate? And this is the guy some people want to be the anti-Romney?
30 posted on 11/18/2011 8:51:23 AM PST by MitchellC
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To: MitchellC
Well, sorry. that's not a "ploy" it's exactly what we have been waiting for SOME Republican---ANY Republican to do for three years.

If everyone does that, guess what? Then the next question is "Ok, what is your plan?" But since everyone else is so busy attacking other GOP candidates, Barry has been getting a free ride.

31 posted on 11/18/2011 9:17:39 AM PST by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

Sarcasm duly noted. If you want a wishy-washy man like Gingrich, fine. Just be prepared to read, “I told you so” on this web site.


32 posted on 11/18/2011 9:54:21 AM PST by Buddygirl
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To: JimInMO; nathanbedford
"Yes. Simply regurgitating the same, over-used stump talking points doesn’t do any good, or change many mind

I'm sorry but that exactly why many of us are resisting the Newt bandwagon. We here an awful lot of Cult of Personality American idol style talking points about Newt, but almost no actual argument why to support Newt. We keep hearing "Newt did this, Newt did that". Unfortunately, those of us who part of the 1994 reovolution know better. Newt has done a very good job of claiming credit for what other men like Tom Delay and John Kasich accomplished. Newt is very very good at putting himself at the head of a parade. He is very very bad at actually leading the parade. Too many of us remember Dole 1996 and McCain 2008. We keep hearing the hard sell personality PR about what a great talker and thinker Newt is. We are being told "just ignore all the facts about Newt's record, just worship at the shrine of his genius". Sorry heard this all before. Not falling for it again.

33 posted on 11/18/2011 11:07:04 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
Again, shamelessly lying about Cain. You been given the actual quote and continue to lie about it anywhay

Don't you ever get sick of lying? Don't you ever feel any shame at all for your reckless childish behavior?

34 posted on 11/18/2011 11:09:13 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: BillyBoy

I realize you’re being sarcastic, but regarding Newt’s personal life...if I’m going to support him, I’m more concerned about the relationship/divorce with Newt’s SECOND wife than his first. There was an Esquire article last year, about how Newt asked for the divorce while Marianne was told she had MS...and, unlike his first wife, I think she actually DOES have MS and has said some rather nasty things about Newt.


35 posted on 11/18/2011 11:56:35 AM PST by RockinRight (The circular firing squad among conservatives has Romney smiling.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

I think that Newt is more suited to White House Chief of Staff or Chief Domestic Policy Advisor than for President. That being said, he might not be that bad a nominee. It could be that he’s mellowed since the 1990’s and has learned from his mistakes. Meanwhile, Herman Cain may not be ready for prime time.


36 posted on 11/18/2011 3:28:41 PM PST by Clintonfatigued (Illegal aliens collect welfare checks that Americans won't collect)
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To: nathanbedford; Clintonfatigued; BillyBoy; Impy
Since I doubt either of us will convince the other, I'll just confine myself to addressing a few points here...

"Gingrich on his part faces much the same unfair dilemma. His first wife was six or seven years his senior and few should be surprised that that marriage did not work out. His second marriage evidently broke up because of his infidelity, or was his infidelity the result of the deterioration of the marriage? In any event, he married the gal with whom he dallied."

Unlike Cain, who faces allegations from nefarious individuals, there is no doubt regarding Newt's life. Aside from the peculiar point about an age difference between himself and his first wife -- given they were together for 18 years, he was 37 and she was 44, and had children -- I can't see how it is "not a surprise" that it didn't work. It so happens his mistress for the first marriage was, yup, the second wife. While married to the second wife, he cheated on her with, yup, the third wife. Worse yet, during the Lewinsky business, he was engaged with that full-on affair with the "much younger" woman, for which had it come to light, would've painted the ENTIRE GOP as a party of hypocrites. That kind of shameful, reckless behavior while holding office demonstrates a serious lack of moral judgement and common sense/reason.

"Nevertheless, Gingrich election chances are haunted by an urban legend of the bogus scene in the hospital room. I did not expect the electorate to be knowledgeable enough to dismiss this urban legend entirely. I am not naïve, I know that smears work."

The problem is in having to deal with this is that, even if false, given Newt's unfortunate moral record, it seems completely within his character to do something like that. The media and the pop culture (regardless of their own moral hypocrisy) will be unrelenting in illuminating Newt's personal life. Too many Conservatives will find this enough justification to pass on supporting him in the general. Exactly what Zero's supporters are counting on.

"I revert to your reasons for picking Cain over Gingrich and I simply cannot believe that the bulk of the Republican Party will be convinced that the man who can bring change is Herman Cain and not Newt Gingrich. We know what Gingrich has done, balanced budgets, reformed an entitlement, reduced taxes, shut down the government and engendered a revolution named after himself, just as had Ronald Reagan. To believe that Gingrich will take office and continue business as usual seems to me to represent the triumph of animosity over history."

"At the end of the day it is more than a matter of electability and conservative bona fides, it turns on the matter of vision. I believe it is hard to argue that any candidate can compete with Newt Gingrich and offer a more innovative and compelling vision."

Unfortunately, the rest of this reads too much like a press release and exhibits the same kinds of rah-rah boosterism reflected far too often by the rather quiet (at present) Perrywinkles. The Newt you want and believe in is not the Newt of reality and in practice. If he was such a candidate possessing all these qualities, it would be hard to argue that that would be the best candidate... But the problem here is that that's not the Newt I and other Conservatives know. As JimRob well put it, when you get right down to it, he's phony. I've had quite my fill of phonies.

37 posted on 11/18/2011 8:02:03 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: campaignPete R-CT

Aside from being a pretty face, why would Thune be seen as Presidential ?


38 posted on 11/18/2011 8:08:45 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: Clintonfatigued

The one thing when it comes to Gingrich... I always trust Newt to be Newt. One big reason I’d never vote for him to be President.


39 posted on 11/18/2011 8:12:09 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

if Dole failed in ‘96, the party would not have nominated Buchanan or Forbes. Kemp was the backup plan.

if Mitt fails, the Istablishment would prob be fine with Perry or Newt. But I wouldn’t want to assume a certain crowd would not fish around for another alternative. One of these guys who already opted not to run.

Maybe not and they would quickly do the coronation with Newt.

Or Mitt could lose everything through FLA ... and make a comeback in the next 4 states: NV ME MN CO
He currently would seem unbeatable in all 4. Caucuses in all 4. And mitt figures fight to the death like Hillary did, as it is his last chance.

Perhaps the conventional thinking on NV is wrong. Mormon strength for MITT. COL: sees mitt as western candidate and borders on UT. MN? not sure why they went for Mitt so big over Huck and McCain. Perhaps Mitt was the only one with the $$ to organize it.

Back to the original question, if Newt wins all 4 of IA NH SC FL, what happens next? As soon as MITT drops out, it gives somebody like Cain an opportunity for a surge. Cause voters like a choice. So Mitt’s presence is what is killing Cain. Many are deciding beating Mitt is more important than promoting a conservative.


40 posted on 11/18/2011 8:37:46 PM PST by campaignPete R-CT (I will go back to New Hampshire to campaign.)
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To: campaignPete R-CT

If Newt wins those 4, we can rest assured that Zero need not worry about leaving office until January 20th.... 2017.


41 posted on 11/18/2011 9:05:51 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

if newt wins all 4, voters will resist a coronation. Somebody will take advantage of being the anti-Newt and slog along until March 6th. That is, if Mitt drops out.

Some of Newt’s coalition is anti-Mitt people. If Mitt drops out, Newt would lose that crowd. MITT being in the race has created NEWT.


42 posted on 11/18/2011 9:21:50 PM PST by campaignPete R-CT (I will go back to New Hampshire to campaign.)
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To: campaignPete R-CT

I so loathe this primary crap. At least with the Democrats, their base can be assured in almost every instance that a Marxist moonbat will get the nod, but we’ve got to work extra hard on our side to keep a f’ing Socialist from similarly capturing the nod. Makes me sick. Slick Willard, La Raza Rick, Naughty Newtie... ugh.


43 posted on 11/18/2011 9:33:47 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Rick Perry has more red flags than a May Day Parade)
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To: nathanbedford

We had nothing but “politically experienced” people at helm in DC. And the country is in worst financial shape I have ever seen. And I am on Medicare, so I have seen a lot.

I am ready to try a non-political business type who has not only balanced his budgets but had to create surpluses (also called profits) in order just to survive.

Gingrich & Santorum have zero experience in running a real world large outfit. Perry is ditto, but I like his attitude of coming to DC with a wrecking ball, not a scalpel. Bachmann would make a great president but has no traction lately. Romney has business experience, but no way to tell which Romney shows up, with his major flip flops. Newt has no problem feeding at the trough of tax payer supported Freddie Mac. So that leaves Cain.

Libya or Uzbekistan is not the problem. It is 22 million unemployed, millions of foreclosures, Trillion+ dollar annual deficits and the gargantuan national debt.


44 posted on 11/20/2011 10:12:25 PM PST by federal__reserve (What matters in 2012 is jobs, jobs, jobs! Jobs kill unemployment, foreclosures & deficits)
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To: johnatures

Not anymore!


45 posted on 11/23/2011 7:58:17 PM PST by Iron Munro (Ben Raines For President)
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