Posted on 06/08/2012 5:28:17 AM PDT by Timber Rattler
In October 2011, the Republican Party of Virginia's State Central Committee voted to nominate its 2013 statewide ticket in a primary. Tuesday's Times-Dispatch reported that the committee might change the rules and opt to nominate candidates in a convention instead. The appropriate response runs to three words: Don't do it.
The Times-Dispatch long has considered primaries the preferred vehicles for nominations — for both parties. Although primaries can compel campaigns to spend more money, they tend to leave less blood on the floor. Caucuses and conventions often turn personal; they open wounds. They also attract activists, ideologues, partisans and crackpots who might not represent a party's mainstream. Primaries broaden the base.
Candidates who have declared their 2013 intentions presumably entered under the assumption a GOP primary would occur. A rules change now would violate an honor code that, although unstated, ought to govern party operations.
The principal candidates for the GOP's gubernatorial nomination are Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling and Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli. A move to a convention likely would boost the latter. Bolling's team urges the committee to stay with its original decision. Cuccinelli's team expresses its confidence it would win in either a primary or convention but adds that it would welcome using the money it would spend in a primary to defeat the Democratic nominee in the fall. If Cuccinelli were to repudiate a rules change, a drive for a convention would collapse. This is a test not of procedure but of character.
We know the current primary system can be abused ~ we saw it happen this year.
Until the underlying legislation can be FIXED there's little utility to a primary ~ except to out of state party bosses.
Any minute now the new defenders of the E will be along to inform us that this is a good thing if it keeps those wacky Paulistinians at bay.
No the GOP-E fears the convention because most activists are Tea Party types and have been taking over the local GOP organizations. I am a delegate and know this to be true.
Just want to make clear to everyone, GOP-e in Virginia go by the names of McDonnell, Bolling and Cantor. Bolling wants the primary system so he can cheat.
AGAIN!
Nope. Conventions are better. Fairer. More democratic. Less affected by the big-money, “bosses”, corporations.
They open wounds, like when the duly elected chairman of the Louisiana caucus was roughed up by the cops at the behest of the man he had just replaced.
These Romneyites in my state will stop at nothing to skew things their way. The sight of Bob McDonnell makes me sick now.
Conventions do not give the MSM as much clout.
This is about statewide candidates not the Presidential nomination, correct?
Virginia had a primary on Mar. 6, 2012 in which Romney won with 59%+ of the vote?
I remember hearing about that. But hey, Romney’s our conservative savior, so let him do his thing! /s
“They open wounds” is a strange metaphor for what happened in Louisiana.
What happened in Louisiana was exposure of a crooked machine that needed exposing.
Now we KNOW.
“-trying to eliminate the primaries there in favor of a centralized boss-controlled convention.”
Quite the opposite, actually. Conventions are exactly when the insiders lose control to “.... activists, ideologues, partisans and crackpots who might not represent a party’s mainstream. Primaries broaden the base.”
The fear here with the RTD and GOP-E is that those crazy ideologues who prefer Cuccinelli will swamp a convention. They saw it happen in ‘94 with Ollie North, and didn’t much like it. It’s what happened when they held the convention that yielded George Allen who went on to serve as governor then senator.
Who do you think voted last year to go for a primary??? Primaries are ridiculously expensive, not only for the candidates, but also for the Commonwealth that has to pick up the tab for the actual running of the primaries. And primaries don’t do a damned thing to “expand the base.” They only attract hard-core partisans and those willing to cross party lines to affect the outcome of the other party’s election. Until there is registration by party in VA, primaries make no sense whatsoever.
Yeah, this is state level politics.
GOP-E. “...honor code...”.
Mutually exclusive.
Howsabout “RINOS DREAD CONSERVATIVE TEA PARTIERS—AGAIN” (?).
"I supported Mitt, but the vote was clearly wrong," Cox said of the Credentials Committee. "It's kind of like Third World voting. We published rules and then we voted to change the rules."
Yep, that's just how Romney and other Democrats do business.
The best part is that Saul Anuzis lost his national committee chair at the state convention. LOL
Of course, since Virginia has no Party Registration and Open Primaries, it allows Libs and Dems to sabotage the process by throwing votes towards the candidates they think are most beatable. . . .
Closed primaries, with all states having one on the same day, is the way to go.
A convention is actually the best way to go. The Establishment doesn’t like it. Here in VA, we had a convention a few years ago that resulted in the defeat of the Establishment nominee for the Chairman of the Party and Gov. Gilmore won narrowly the nomination for the Senate in 2008.
“Closed primaries, with all states having one on the same day, is the way to go.”
That would solve nothing. Regular people participating in the convention system is the way to go.
I agree with everything you said except “Until there is registration by party in VA, primaries make no sense whatsoever.”
With party affiliation pre-registration you still have the effects of the big-money, corporate, out-of-state special interests on masses of malleable voters, plus the voter fraud factor.
Grassroots-organized precinct-level elected delegates partcipating in the convention system is the only way for the producer-class of citizens to get their country back.
Closed primaries would interfere with your agenda of nominating left-wingers, gnat.
More importantly (to them), conventions mean you don't have multi-million dollar advertisment buys.
Remember folks, when the media is yelling about "money in politics", the vast majority of this money goes directly to them. Political campaigns are propping up the lamestream media in a major way. That's why it is in their best interests to keep the nation so evenly divided. It makes more money for them.
To be fair, to the degree the establishment is the people who are currently in power, Cuccinelli would also be part of the GOP-E, as a statewide elected candidate who has his own powerful allies on the state committee.
If he didn’t have a lot of power over the establishment, there’d be no chance of changing to a convention, and as the report says, if he tells his people no, it won’t happen.
I prefer primaries to conventions. We have conventions of course in part because we don’t have political party registration, so all of our primaries are open. We need to get that fixed, so we can do closed primaries.
But, having attended several conventions, I much prefer the 10 minutes to go vote in a primary over the hours of wasted effort to make my voice heard in a convention.
If there is a convention, I might well go and vote against whoever it was that forced me to go through that again.
I happen to like both Ken and Bill very much, but I will be supporting Ken, and expect he will win a primary without too much trouble (Bill is just too “nice” — I wish he’d have run for the senate seat this year, he’d kill Kaine, and be a better senator than George Allen will be).
Of course, to the degree GOP-e is used as a derogatory, I reject the notion that any of the three statewide leaders are a problem. They have all served conservatives well over the past decade. Any victories we have had can be attributed to their hard work, including Bill Bolling casting the tie-breaking votes in the Senate.
True but it is another symptom of the disease of cronyism which affects the GOP in Virginia (and elsewhere). It was the GOP-e cronyism in Virginia that made sure that Mitt's two biggest rivals weren't on the ballot. The GOP-e doesn't want a fair race if their candidate isn't going to win. This is nothing more than an attempt to make sure a Tea-Party candidate can't get in.
Doufous McDonnell chose the wrong path as well. Cantor has his own problems ~ actually too many problems.
Cooch is still OK.
Now, regarding the need to run Cooch for higher office, whatever it takes!
And, BTW, as long as the primary system is so corruptable, particularly by outsiders, I suggest we cannot afford to use it. It's gotta' be fixed.
When 0bama couldn't break 60% folks here said it was a disaster.
OK .. but please understand that in VA, the state conventions were open to anyone willing to pay a (minimal) registration fee, not locally elected precinct level delegates. The delegates have been self-selected, and that is what is so intimidating to the in-crowd.
Who would locally selected delegates be, if not part of the power structure. I find them more easily intimidated by the powers that be than the rabble who’ll fork over $25 to go to convention for their favored candidate.
It’s been my experience in VA, at the County level broken down by magisterial district, that the same old cronies (oh, and I DO mean “OLD”) sit around at monthly meetings accomplishing not a damned freakin’ thing. But they become buddies and there’s a group think that evolves. One dare NOT say a single thing that might be construed as ‘anti’ a cherished pol. So, ask me ....do I want those folks picking the delegates who pick the nominee at convention? I’ll take the rabble who might or might not have been influenced by advertising.
I find it absolutely amazing that Bolling is so stupid he thinks we didn't notice how he fixed the primary for his boy Romney.
We need to make sure he knows that we know ~ for sure Cooch knows!
I think Bolling has spent entirely too much time visiting with the committee folks such as you described, and not eough time visiting with real people who don't have to drag oxygen bottles with them! (not that there's anything wrong with oxygen bottles, but all of them?)
You give Bolling too much credit. The presidential primary fiasco was due to each and every one of the candidates whose campaigns didn’t have their acts together enough to qualify to be on the VA ballot. Perry. Gingrich, Santorum, Bachmann managed to screw up all on their own. Romney didn’t even need Bolling’s help.
Second, Bolling and his MIttbot cronies were clever ~ they simply changed the standard of validation for nominating petitions at the LAST MINUTE ~ only MItt had claimed enough to meet that additional LAST MINUTE CHANGED standard of 15,000.
Ron Paul was the only candidate who claimed 10,000 signatures and validated 10,000 signatures. Romney didn't have his signatures validated. We don't even know if they qualified ~ nothing but his claim for it.
Whatever the failings of the other candidates, with Bolling on the job the FIX WAS IN.
Whether Bolling himself is the Sith Lord, or someone in Mitt's camp is the Sith Lord, and Bolling is just another doufous like Aniken Skywalker, somebody cheated.
“There were 16 candidates registered with the DNC.”
Sorry, but I don’t know what that means. There was no Dem presidential primary in VA in ‘12. The Dems opted out of the primary altogether for ‘12.
The law for being on the ballot, passed by the legislature, has been the same since well before the ‘12 nominating season began. My memory is Paul claimed close to 10K but not at or over the 10K, so his would have been validated vs. Romney who did claim in excess of what was required or even suggested to meet the threshold.
That is a battle not worth refighting at this point, but how the ‘13 state candidates are selected IS worth our time. Just minutes ago got this email from Bolling:
“Dear Friends,
“I’m writing to ask you to join Governor McDonnell and me in supporting a Republican primary in 2013. You can show your support for a primary by signing our online petition.
“A primary will allow many more Republicans to participate in the nomination of our candidates for Governor, Lieutenant Governor and Attorney General. If we want to grow our party we have to involve more people in the nomination of our candidates, and a primary will enable us to do that.
“A convention would effectively disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of Virginia Republicans from participating in the nominations process, including active duty military personnel, who are prohibited from participating in a party convention.
“Finally, eight months ago the Republican Party of Virginia voted to hold a primary in 2013. Since then, numerous candidates have spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars putting together primary campaigns. It is extremely unfair, and possibly illegal, to change the rules in the middle of the game. We must be a party that stands for consistency and the rule of law.
“Will you stand with Governor McDonnell and me in supporting a Republican primary in 2013? If so, you can let us know of your support by clicking here to sign our online petition.
“Thanks for your support.
Very Truly Yours, Lieutenant Governor Bill Bolling”
EXCUSE ME, RNC ~ mistake on the editing. Thanks for calling it to my attention. I still miss those loop things hooked to a pole ~ (now to read the rest of your piece and see if you fell into the business of thinking Democrats don’t do crossover around here just to screw us up. This used to be a one party state and there are plenty of Democrats who’d like to go back to those days).
But see how the guy uses active duty military as one of his reasons to force the question to a primary ~ where he can cheat again ~ that's downright unpatriotic!
Romney has to live with it ~ as long as Bolling is a public man this will be brought up time and time again.
Conventions give over the party nomination to the people who have the least else going on in their lives, and therefore the most time to give up to go to conventions. They exclude anybody who works on saturdays, anybody who has a job that takes them overseas, all active duty military personnel. They exclude people who can’t afford the convention fee (unlike a primary, you can charge people to attend a convention). They exclude people who don’t have good transportation. They exclude a lot of people who live in southwest Virginia, since conventions are generally held in Richmond.
And they are easily corrupted — it’s easier to pay off a few hundred people to attend a convention, than tens of thousands of people to throw a primary.
Bill did support Romney, in 2008 and in 2012. Romney is now our nominee, and there was nobody else competing in Virginia. Jim DeMint endorsed Romney in 2008 as well, so Bill Bolling was not alone in this supposed “apostasy”.
It’s silly to dismiss a solid conservative record over an endorsement, but you are free to do so if you wish. Just so people understand the basis for your opinion.
He can go find some other state to squat.
You people can't defend him so why do you want to run him for higher office?
That's a lot closer than just an endorsement!
He was the “honorary chair” for Romney here in Virginia.
Too bad Rick Perry and Newt Gingrich didn’t have someone who knew what they were doing to file their paperwork — maybe I would have had a reason to show up for the primary.
BTW, Romney contacted me 3 times to collect signatures. And even though I wrote multiple e-mails to the Perry, Santorum, and Gingrich campaigns, none of them ever responded to ask me to give a signature, much less collect them, until 3 days before the due date when Gingrich announced we should all drive into another county to sign forms for him.
That is an excellent point.
Regular people have obligations- and cannot usually just take off on a trip, and in many cases cannot choose when they can do so. In short, regular people generally don’t go to conventions. Closed primary systems screen out Democrats from selecting Republican candidates, and will have the further advantage of suppressing GOP-e left-wingers. Having all the states have their closed primaries on the same day will give those of us in conservative states a real voice in selecting the candidate instead of having to rubber-stamp some northeastern gungrabbing liberal.
Newt could have collected thousands of signatures himself just while waiting for Calista to get done shopping at the Michaels across the way.
The primary being discussed here is for state offices, i.e., Governor, Lt. Gov. and AG. Next year in VA there will be a contest between the current Lt Gov and the current AG to run for Gov. So the argument is = do we nominate our GOP candidate for Governor of VA in ‘13 through a primary or convention system? One state office, one party.
VA doesn’t have a closed primary. No registration by party. Last March I worked as an election official at the Republican-only presidential primary, and saw voters in that one-party primary exit the polling place, and get into their cars with Obama/Kaine/Moran/Visualize Peace bumper stickers. Yep .. expanding participation, that’s the ticket!
Back in the early 90s, as ‘regular people,’ we went to Richmond for two conventions. Both were packed, literally to the rafters, with ‘regular people.’ It’s quite possible to be both ‘regular people’ and politically engaged.
There is plenty of notice - months - so alternate plans can be made to one’s normal Saturday obligations. Cost was all of $15 to register. Charter buses are available. Maybe voting should be made more difficult, more of a commitment, than it’s become in recent years.
The one exception is, in fact, military. But, let’s be honest here: How many military request and return their ballots, especially for a primary? Most military are not willing to request a Republican or a Democrat ballot, which they must do to vote in a primary.
To run a primary costs the taxpayers. Every polling place is staffed with an average of 6 election officials. Not much money for each official but overall the cost is high when you factor in the number of polling places (2500 +/-) statewide. The various electoral boards are also staffed; there are printing and personnel costs. All this for what % of people who actually vote? In March, 265,570 voted statewide in the Republican presidential primary. Granted those were unique circumstances in ‘12, but in ‘08 with 6 on the ballot and no controversy the GOP turnout was only 489,152.
Huh? What are you talking about?
To participate in the convention system, you do not have to “take off on a trip”.
In the Convention System regular people are fully represented by the delegates they elect to represent them at the conventions. There is no “trip” necessary.
The “closed primaries” voting rules do nothing to correct the failures of the “primary system” I described in my post. Primaries are what prevent the voices of regular people from being heard and have proven to be of such great harm to the party and convention system that we should do away with them.
It is hard to believe anyone is so naive that they actually believe primary elections of any kind give them a “real voice”. What they do give you is the ILLUSION of having a “real voice”.
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