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Ted Cruz’s hard-line stance renders border crisis key 2016 issue
MSNBC ^ | August 1, 2014 | Benjy Sarlin

Posted on 08/01/2014 8:23:05 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

In the short term, the House GOP’s failure to pass an emergency immigration bill on Thursday over tea party opposition was another embarrassing moment for Speaker Boehner in a growing list. But the political damage may be limited: Americans tend to pay little attention to process stories in Congress, and the 2014 elections haven’t been particularly focused on immigration.

Something Americans do pay attention to, however, are presidential elections. Here’s where this week’s border skirmish starts to look more significant.

The key player in this drama is Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, who has been working to corner the market on grassroots conservative support ahead of a likely White House bid next year.

Cruz was never on board with immigration reform, but in recent months he’s gone from throwing the occasional potshot to embracing a starring role in the anti-amnesty wing of the party. While he’s downplayed his role in this week’s affair, House conservatives credited him with helping kill Boehner’s initial bill and revving up demands to undo the White House’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, which protects DREAMers from deportation.

“The only way to stop the border crisis is to stop Obama’s amnesty,” Cruz told Politico ahead of the vote. “It is disappointing the border security legislation unveiled today does not include language to end Obama’s amnesty.”(continued)

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.com ...


TOPICS: Issues; Parties; Polls; U.S. Senate
KEYWORDS: boehner; cruz; illegalsinvasion; immigration; tedcruz
They're aghast. Good.
1 posted on 08/01/2014 8:23:05 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Cruz is the one with the hard-line stance?

Stopping people from walking across our borders by the hundreds of thousands is a "hard-line stance?"

Desiring that immigration laws be enforced is a "hard-line stance?"

2 posted on 08/01/2014 8:29:32 PM PDT by Steely Tom (How do you feel about robbing Peter's robot?)
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To: Steely Tom

Could you elaborate? Your response seems to giving mixed messages.


3 posted on 08/01/2014 8:34:04 PM PDT by doc1019
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Don’t forget Senator Jeff Sessions steely spine!


4 posted on 08/01/2014 8:35:05 PM PDT by Graewoulf (Democrats' Obamacare Socialist Health Insur. Tax violates U.S. Constitution AND Anti-Trust Law.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

1837 - Supreme Court Rules in New York v. Miln That States May Take Precautionary Measures Against the Importation of “Paupers, Vagabonds, Convicts, and Infectious Articles”

http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/36/102/


5 posted on 08/01/2014 8:37:43 PM PDT by BuffaloJack (Unarmed people cannot defend themselves. America is no longer a Free Country.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If Cruz runs on securing the border with a real fence in his first year, and no amnesty, he'll win in a landslide.

Fact: Every dollar spent on a real double border fence will save $100 in the cost of maintaining an illegal alien.


6 posted on 08/01/2014 8:38:59 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Steely Tom
Exactly. Following the written Constitution is now "hard line."

U.S. Constitution, Article IV, Section 4:

The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government,

and shall protect each of them against invasion


7 posted on 08/01/2014 8:40:48 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

and there is a plane carrying the 2 ebola patients here to the US and and a new presidential exec order on quarantine of people with symptoms of respiratory infections diseases. ebola here we come.


8 posted on 08/01/2014 10:32:26 PM PDT by kvanbrunt2 (civil law: commanding what is right and prohibiting what is wrong Blackstone Commentaries I p44)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

and we need to say that there is no reason for an undocumented worker in this country. we are wanting that you be documented, working and protected.


9 posted on 08/01/2014 10:40:02 PM PDT by kvanbrunt2 (civil law: commanding what is right and prohibiting what is wrong Blackstone Commentaries I p44)
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To: Travis McGee

Sorry, but I don’t really think a fence is the answer.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/29/border-fence-knocked-down_n_5631316.html

Everyone lauds the fence in Israel. I do too. But that fence is relatively short and manned 24/7 by military.

We can’t do it now...or won’t.

Cut off the benefits. No free schooling, no access to free medical, no access to government benefits. Fine the employers that hire these folks in a huge way. (=no jobs). NO...NO anchor babies.

As long as there are ladders and shovels to dig tunnels a fence is an illusionary fix.


10 posted on 08/01/2014 11:26:09 PM PDT by berdie
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To: berdie

Cut off the benefits and use the savings to built a fence in the places that need it most.


11 posted on 08/01/2014 11:27:39 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL

OK...I’ll go for that as well.:)


12 posted on 08/01/2014 11:35:39 PM PDT by berdie
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To: berdie

Naturally, a serious double fence would be heavily manned, by today’s current BP. At the present, they must “defend in depth” from the border back 40 miles. 2.000 miles X 40 miles = 80,000 square miles to play hide and seek with coyotes, aliens and drug smugglers.

Question, do you bother to lock your doors and windows when you go on vacation? After all, a cat burglar could pick your locks and disarm your security system. So why bother?

Using your same “logic” the White House and every military base etc should get rid of their fences, because fences are not 100.00% effective at stopping every type of incursion.


13 posted on 08/02/2014 5:55:06 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: GeronL
"Cut off the benefits and use the savings to built a fence in the places that need it most."

I agree 100% about cutting off the benefits, but building a fence "only where it's needed" is as foolish as putting a fence only 10% of the way around a swimming pool, where kids have been usually seen sneaking in. Putting up border fencing only in "high travel areas" just moves the "high travel areas" to another location.

14 posted on 08/02/2014 5:57:11 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

Awesome post!!

Those against the fence typically have some special interest, such as land that might abut the border. No one in their RIGHT MIND can argue that not having a fence is better than having a fence, or that it won’t affect the number of people crossing illegally.

We, conservatives, practically every day, make the (correct) argument that ANYTHING that drives up the cost (or hassle) of gun ownership will drive down the number of gun owners. Yes, maybe there is some way to breech the fence with ladders or tunnels, but then what? You’re on the other side with no transport, unless a collaborator tries to meet you...and then he has to hope to not be seen going there.

By the way, the $8B is on the high side, as there are areas that don’t need the fence, at least initially - maybe half of the border can use it. If people still manage to get around it, then finish the job.


15 posted on 08/02/2014 6:37:32 AM PDT by BobL
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To: Travis McGee

“I agree 100% about cutting off the benefits, but building a fence “only where it’s needed” is as foolish as putting a fence only 10% of the way around a swimming pool, where kids have been usually seen sneaking in. Putting up border fencing only in “high travel areas” just moves the “high travel areas” to another location. “

I just responded to that...I’m cool building the entire fence too - just not sure it’s needed. In any case, definitely build out from the high-traffic areas - drive the cost of crossing up and up.


16 posted on 08/02/2014 6:39:13 AM PDT by BobL
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To: doc1019

You’re kidding doc; right? Or did you forget the “sarcasm” symbol? Tom’s comments in Post #2 were perfectly clear to me.


17 posted on 08/02/2014 6:46:03 AM PDT by Din Maker (I've always been crazy, but, that's the only thing that has kept me from going insane.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; Jarhead9297; COUNTrecount; notaliberal; DoughtyOne; RitaOK; MountainDad; ...
Ted Cruz Ping!

If you want on/off this ping list, please let me know.

Please beware, this is a high-volume ping list!
18 posted on 08/02/2014 11:44:35 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: Travis McGee

“only where needed” is the trick part.

Eventually it will need to be all the way across


19 posted on 08/02/2014 12:08:05 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Cruz will make the finest candidate and President this country has seen since even long before Reagan.

Cruz has the facts right at the tip of his mind and knows very well how to articulate them, every one from the Rino’s, the Demonrats and the Lameist Meanstream Media are frustrated by him, they have no idea how to assault, demean, mis-characterize, lie about or otherwise destroy his honesty, integrity, determination and good will.

As evil is in full bloom, God will raise up a man to stand in the gap.

Cruz Control 2016!!!


20 posted on 08/02/2014 12:16:05 PM PDT by PoloSec ( Believe the Gospel: how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again)
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To: All; PoloSec

Read his bio:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Cruz

Then remember that he’s only 43!!


21 posted on 08/02/2014 12:18:39 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: GeronL

It’s simpler to just build to a set pattern and go all 2,000 miles at one go. Break it into 20 sections of 100 miles, bid it out, and apply bonuses for early completion and severe penalties for being late. It would be finished in less than one year.


22 posted on 08/02/2014 12:55:35 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: BobL

A half a fence is not much better than no fence. A half a fence around a swimming pool will not keep neighborhood kids out, they will just walk around it.


23 posted on 08/02/2014 12:56:51 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

I agree. I like the double fence idea with the road in the middle patrolled by Humvee’s and hungry Rottweilers.


24 posted on 08/02/2014 1:01:33 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Travis McGee

“A half a fence is not much better than no fence. A half a fence around a swimming pool will not keep neighborhood kids out, they will just walk around it.”

It’s a LOT EASIER to walk around 20 feet of fencing than it is to walk (or drive) around 100 miles of fencing in an inhospitable region - LET’S GET STARTED ON IT. And if they do get some Russian ATVs to get through those areas, then FINISH THE FENCE.

That’s all I’m saying...right now, I hear NOTHING regarding a fence.


25 posted on 08/02/2014 1:42:53 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Travis McGee

Great text and picture comment! Thanks!


26 posted on 08/02/2014 2:35:38 PM PDT by Graewoulf (Democrats' Obamacare Socialist Health Insur. Tax violates U.S. Constitution AND Anti-Trust Law.)
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To: BobL

I agree in principle, but history teaches that a bill to build 750 miles of fence gets downgraded to 100 to 50 to “congress certifies the border is secure.”

Only an ironclad bill to build all 2,000 miles, or nothing, will mean a damn in the end.


27 posted on 08/02/2014 4:20:40 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

I can tell that you are very passionate about a border fence. The same way I am about other measures to curb illegal immigration. Sadly, I doubt that either of our solutions will be enacted given the present political and societal climate.

A fence might be a deterrent...no doubt. But using your “locking the house” analogy...of course I lock my house. But if I put a huge sign in the front yard that says I have electronics and a million dollars inside and I won’t prosecute you if you break in and rob me? People will tear the roof off in order to get in.

I have wondered why illegal immigration has risen. I have wondered why this recent influx did not migrate to South America where most border fences are a strip of barbed wire. If they are indeed in danger (which I don’t believe), going to one of those countries would be closer and they could understand the language and culture. There is no benefit to going there.

There a whole host of reasons as to why this is happening. We can debate the value of our ideas until the cows come home...but it really won’t make any difference in the long run. The powers that be aren’t going to do jack squat.


28 posted on 08/02/2014 6:22:47 PM PDT by berdie
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To: Travis McGee

“Only an ironclad bill to build all 2,000 miles, or nothing, will mean a damn in the end.”

You’re on to something. One you add fuzz, as in not quite a complete fence, then you give discretion to whoever is president. If we get another Bush-type in office, that will mean 600 miles of fencing in areas so remote that no one crosses there anyway, while simultaneously hanging out a big “WELCOME ALL” sign at the easy points to cross.


29 posted on 08/02/2014 6:50:16 PM PDT by BobL
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