Role of brain death and the dead-donor rule in the ethics of organ transplantation.

Critical Care Medicine ^ | September, 2003 | Truog RD, Robinson WM.

[MarMema]

ping for your thread....which doc was on the show? I am dying to know, so if you can remember, please post to me.
Thanks.

[Humidston]

Ohmygosh! THANKS for pinging me on the other thread!! (I'm going to post a link to yours as soon as I've answered you here.)

No, I don't recall - unfortunately. He was a PhD though, and not a medical doctor. Maybe someone else will have the answer??

[Humidston]

I've been on FNC's website, trying to locate the name of the "doctor" who appeared, but they haven't updated the list yet....

[MarMema]

Boy if you ever find out, I would love to know, as I am keeping track of the right to kill scum in this country.

Once they show their ratlike little eyes on TV, I want to know who they are. Thanks and keep trying, please.

[Humidston]

>>ratlike little eyes<<

Thanks! The first and only chuckle I've had today. And I certainly will keep trying. Maybe someone else may have written it down. (Apparently they brought this guy in at the last minute because he wasn't listed in the Previews. And BTW, it was O'Reilly's show where he appeared.)

I can always wait for the second viewing late tonight. I'll try to stay awake.

[Marie Antoinette]

Just Chilling!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled playoff games...

[BlessedBeGod]

We propose that individuals who desire to donate their organs and who are either neurologically devastated or imminently dying should be allowed to donate their organs, without first being declared dead.

Over my dead body. Literally.

[MarMema]

You might want to see this.....

[MarMema]

We now return you to your regularly scheduled playoff games...

BUZZ! You get the award of the day. The professional medical journals are filled with this stuff today. It is enough to send you packing, which is in fact, what we are considering.

It's like this...what if you lived in Germany in about 1928 and you said, Nah, this can't really be happening...and you stayed.

[MarMema]

Bless you if you make it.

[MarMema]

Well they aren't looking at those who work and pay taxes you see. The disabled like Terri, have good livers still and expecially those brain-damaged kids in the ICU at Boston Childrens, where both of these docs practise.

They're looking at those kids and seeing very young and working organs, hardly used.

[MarMema]

And look at this post I put up a few days ago, as well.....

[MarMema]

here is another thing you have no control over...ties in quote closely to the threads about Terri.

[MarMema]

And how do you feel about this, btw?

[Capitalist Eric]

And how do you feel about this, btw?

I don't particulary like the idea of "harvesting" organs from live donors, but (again) I have discussed such possibilities with my family. And of course, my drivers' license has the donor sticker, as well as the donor card...

But the key sentence here, is "and who are either neurologically devastated" would seem to apply this woman Terri, would it not? After all, her autonomic functions are all intact, but cognitive functions are (from all accounts) destroyed. Did she not suffer from "neurological devastation," to use their term? Food for thought...

I don't know if such "guidelines" are meaningful, from either a moral perspective or legal perspective. In such circumstances....? The legal system follows the guidelines and stare decisis, however repugnant the side-effects may be...

Contrary to accusations on the other thread, I don't really have a firm opinion on how it should be, simply because I'm somewhat familiar with the legal system, and can see both sides... The husband is within his rights, and no person without legal standing can make a credible challenge.

That's the way it is.

Be well,

[MarMema]

You may be surprised that I agree with you. The husband is well within his rights. That is the problem for me, however.

The physician/authors above are pediatricians, if that makes any difference. It seems like a very very slippery slope to agree to take organs before death, especially from ( yet again) a vulnerable population such as injured children.

The problem with the term "neurologically devastated" is that it means nothing, and that may actually be intentional. I am a medical professional and this term is completely meaningless. Therefore it is open to lots and lots of interpretation, of course. Guess who gets to be the interpretor?

Thanks for reading and good luck with medical care in the future, an an organ donor. :-)

[Capitalist Eric]

good luck with medical care in the future, an an organ donor. :-)

ROFLOL!

Thanks- I think! :-P

[First Amendment]

When people have a materialist world view - when they think that the flesh and blood body is their only identity, when they think that their existence ends with the death of the body; when they think that the only goals worth pursuing are money, power, influence, sex and its attendent attractiveness and seductions, even the honing of talents, or any worldly goals - then the extension of bodily existence is worth any cruelty, any unnatural contortions, any amount of money, and any extremist scientific experimentation. Because such people have no conviction in the existence of the eternal Supreme Godhead, His eternal kingdom, and the eternal nature of the individual souls, they grasp like limpets to their own temporary existence, even if it means hastening the bodily death of others.

People who understand that the body is but a shell holding the eternal spirit have respect for the shell - knowing that it is up to the Owner when we come into the world, and it is up to Him when we leave. Only those who understand that "life" doesn't really start with a birthday and doesn't end with a deathday can truly respect the living and the dead, or show true compassion for those who suffer, who are dying (and actually that encompasses each and every one of us) and those who are disabled in some way. Because we understand that the *person inside* is not disabled, just the vehicle is. And if we respect the living soul, we naturally take care of the vehicle, as it is illuminated with the holy light emanating from the soul, and God within each heart.

[nepdap]

pay the parents or family the compensation money

Is there actual compensation money? I thought donors only received a pat on the back. That is, if there's anything left of their back after all their internal organs have been removed . . .

[nepdap]

Have you all seen "Princess Bride"? Sorry to inject a comedy into a very serious subject, but there's this whole plot development when Wesley (hero) is thought to be dead, but then the Billy Crystal character reveals that Wesley is only mostly dead, and Wesley goes on to recover.

Maybe not funny unless you know the movie. But perhaps unwittingly the movie is making "our" point.