Best beginner rifle (Vanity)

Vanity ^ | 10-18-03 | Me

[archy]

Thanks for the great response. I am a simple kinda guy...

If you're figuring on using a bolt-action rifle, I hope you're also a right-handed sort of guy? The use of a starboard-side bolt action can be learned by a southpaw, and is a little easier if the rifle isn't topped with a telescopic sight over the action, but if there's no difficulty there, there's no need to consider it, beyond the sometimes useful utility of any tool that can be utillized as well ambidextrously over one that cannot.

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[wardaddy]

S.W.F.A., Inc.
420 Century Way, Suite 100
Red Oak, TX, 75154
(972) 617-7056 FAX: (972) 617-1647
Product Line: Binoculars, Rifle Scopes

[archy]

Now that you mention it I am not certain where SWFA is located. Fort Worth is the first name that comes to mind but in the back of my mind I think I am thinking Mesquite, Texas.

Anyway I think it is the Dallas area.

420 Century Way, #100 - Red Oak, Texas 75154. Due south if Dallas on 77, 'bout 10 miles south of the big anthill.

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[Colorado Doug]

Have you caught on to the neat and handy way of carrying a dozen rounds of .50 ammunition for use in the field?

Well now, That is pretty slick.

[archy]

Have you caught on to the neat and handy way of carrying a dozen rounds of .50 ammunition for use in the field?

Well now, That is pretty slick.

Magazines for my old .55 Boys rebarrelled to .50x99 Browning M2 were expensive and hard to come by; accordingly I only had two, and wanted a way to be able to easily pick from my assortment of ball, ARI, spotter tracer and SLAP when I reloaded a just-emptied magazine after replacing it with a filled one. The back-to-back sidesaddles manage that pretty well.

Two loaded 10-round magazines plus two 12-round *.50 speedloaders* plus an extra six on a Tac-star carrier taped to the gun gave me 50 rounds total, about as much of a load as I wanted in addition to the weight of the gun. Beyond that, I could carry boxed or loose rounds in .50 ammo cans.

[Vinnie]

I looked at a binocular a few weeks ago which I think might even be better than the Swarovski. I am saving my money but it is going to take awhile. This one is the Nikon Superior E in 10X42.

I have a pair of Superior E 8x32's. I like porro prism binocs and the Nikon SE's are arguably the best. After using a Wind River 8x40 the Nikon's were like looking through a picture window as opposed to a porthole. Most excellent.
However , I looked through my son's Swavorski's 8x40, I think, and wow. They are truly impressive. Very expensive !!

Have you tried the Canon image stabilized? They may be my next binoc purchased. Any lack of clarity, if any, is easily compensated by the stability of the view.

[yarddog]

I haven't tried any of the image stabilized binoculars tho I have heard that Canon seems to be at the head of the class.

I will probably wait a year or so and hope the price comes down although they really aren't that bad now.

I bought a binocular on ebay a few weeks ago which might be the best binocular I have including the Fuji's and Swarovski's. It was listed as a Swift model 714 7X35 although when I looked up that model it is not the same binocular that Swift currently lists under that number. In the picture it looked like the exact same construction as the Audubon and Kestrel except of course in 7X35. I think I paid all of $35 for it. When it came in I compared it carefully with some others including the other Swifts and it is flat out good. In fact a little sharper than the other highly rated Swift's.

Another real steal is the Russian 7X30's which I think cost just over $100. I knew it was good but didn't like the yellow cast of the view and the general look of it. I put it away and last week was doing some really critical testing. I was putting them on a tripod or box if they didn't have a tripod socket and viewing a telephone box warning sign. This sign is about 200 yards away and has writing of various sizes and colors. That Russian one was as optically sharp as any including the Swarovski.

[PoorMuttly]

Great information, archy. Those boys "invented" khaki too, I heard...because all their clothing was washed out, and blended in with the countryside. Any truth here...?

[archy]

Great information, archy. Those boys "invented" khaki too, I heard...because all their clothing was washed out, and blended in with the countryside. Any truth here...?

They found the well-scrubbed and bright British uniforms a great help in target identification and acquisition and the Brits were smart enough to copy a good idea after they learned the lesson the hard way.

But it was not just in suid-afrika that the Brits learned that lesson, but also in the Afghanistani and other South-West African campaigns of Queen Victoria and Kipling's day. The word *khaki* is said to be derived from the Pushtu word *khaq* for dust, and the Brits had no shortage of tea with which to dye white tropical uniforms and white mess dress to a nicely camoflagued sandy-tan shade.

Leftenant Winston Churchill with C96 Mauser pistol, 21st Lancers, Omdurman, Sudan, 1898

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[PoorMuttly]

What significant contributions you make to the Muttly Archive, archy. I am very grateful to you.

BTW...I knew a Jewish fellow who was a kid in the Resistance, and when I showed him my P35 I was carrying...(and he reminded me that the willingness to use it is the most important thing...) he told me a couple of interesting stories.

First...he needed a useable rifle...but they gave him some "long, WWI rifle" which was MUCH taller than he was...so he sawed it down, and his superior thought he had ruined it...until he shot it at a 2x4, and the bullet, evidently being unstable, sawed it in half !

Second...relating to the painting...he said he was too small and weak to rack the slide on a High Power, but snapping a stripper clip into his Broomhandle Mauser was very comforting, in the middle of the night.

Muttly like stripper clips, and has a shoebox full of them for his 8x57 98K's.

Oh yes, I've been meaning to ask you...what is your opinion of the .30 Luger...and getting a barrel/slide for one of my "always with me" HP's, for general ranch chores, small game...perhaps coyote terminating at longer range than my 124's may reach with authority. I had read it penetrated really, really well, shot flat..but was a miserable manstopper. Your thoughts ?

[Squantos]

Ever play with adjusted point of aim with yer P35 ? Coyotes and Sod Poodles at 300 yards is possible. My fodder is 115gr CorBon for my Browning HiPower. Kinda like artillery but none the less fun once ya bracket the varmints........:o)

Hope your days are easy Muttly.....Stay Safe !

[PoorMuttly]

Hey...Tanks !

I always use Cor-Bon 124's for real work...but am now concerned about beating my guns up...so I only carry them.

The 115s may be easier on the equipment. Is it possible to convert a new .40 to 9mm+P+++++++....? Stronger metalurgy and more lugs sound great to me. I should have gotten that Steyer GB when I could, I guess.

[archy]

Second...relating to the painting...he said he was too small and weak to rack the slide on a High Power, but snapping a stripper clip into his Broomhandle Mauser was very comforting, in the middle of the night.

Muttly like stripper clips, and has a shoebox full of them for his 8x57 98K's.

Oh yes, I've been meaning to ask you...what is your opinion of the .30 Luger...and getting a barrel/slide for one of my "always with me" HP's, for general ranch chores, small game...perhaps coyote terminating at longer range than my 124's may reach with authority. I had read it penetrated really, really well, shot flat..but was a miserable manstopper. Your thoughts ?

I actually carried a 7,65mm Luger as my personal handgun while working in Italy for a couple of months a few years back; the law there treated pistols of .32 and smaller calibers as essentially indoor target weapons, those larger offerings in 9mm and above were considered *military weapons* and required tons of paperwork and permits; 9mm Colt Commanders and P.35 Browning GPs in the 7,65 chambering were therefore more popular and widely distributed there than in most other places; I understand that their laws were revised with the coming of the European Alliance and Euro to eliminate that loophole.

The 7,65 Luger was the Finnish handgun cartridge before the 9mm Luger, which is just a 7,65 case with the bottlenech straightened out to 9mm, came along. It's thought to be a bit weak in the full-jacketed bullet configuration, but there are some things that can be done with Sierra JHC or Hornady XTP bullets [including those for the .311 .32 S&W magnum, which are often unwanted and available cheap!] to get okay results. It's usually pretty easy to convert a 9mm gun to use .30, including submachineguns, though since cheap surplus 9mm is around, there's rarely real good cause to do so. But those 9x19mm weapons offering feeding problems can sometimes be cured with the use of the bottleneck .30 Luger round, which feeds a little better; I had a pal with an MP 40 so arranged, and old .30 Springfield barrels removed for sporter projects were a nice source of near-free barrel blanks, as were .30 Browning MG barrels.

I never had the opportunity to try my .30 Luger on another person, though a couple of times it came close, but there was one territorial doggie who thought the muzzle end was a bone and chomped down on it when I put it between him and me. I fired, and he has since refrained from that or any other behavior. Didn't hurt the gun a bit.

A similar quirk in the law makes a C96 my fairly common companion now here in Memphis. Though I have a modest but useful selection of handguins available for carry and the CCH permit that authorizes it, the law here requires rifles and shotguns in a vehicle to be caried unloaded and cased. Accordingly a Garand with ammo in clips in a behind-the-pickup-seat case is about the best option so available to me, and a shotgun would be nice [I've considered a Kalishnikov magazine-fed shotgun].

But the C96, legally and technically for the purposes of the state law, is a *pistol* and remains so even with the broomie stock-holster attached. [Good thing: I have to take the accessory 20-round extension magazine off to put the handgun in the *holster*] so it mostly sits beneath the seat with the buttstock afixxed and a puuch with two extra 10-shot broomie clips taped on the starboard side, giving me 40 rounds before resorting to other assorted containers and pouches.

Funny story: another quirk here is that if you qualify with a revolver you're *revolver certified* but using a semiauto covers *all weapons* and I happened to be wearing and using a nice S&W M37 Brazilian .45 revolver reworked to .357 magnum when I went down to shoot when I was told of that interesting limitation. *Why I just happen to have a semiauto in the truck* says I, *perhaps I should use it instead....*

I asked to make sure there was no caliber limitation, and was told that even a .22 would have been okay. Figures. THe silhouette target at 15 feet or so was not much of a match for the broomie, and after my target had been scored, I asked if it'd be okay if I emptied off the rest of the magazine [having fired two groups of six and six] I think they figured there was one or two shots left.

Well, I had the slide locked open anyway, and had those two strippers handy, so popped one in for a top-up that wasn't noticed. I had eight left out of the original load, and had added ten more. And the lights downrange [indoors] kickedc on. bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangitybang.

I had shot out the center ring of the scoring rings in the chest area before, so I went for the face with those following eighteen. Had the target been an unsociable character he would have required extensive dental work after our noisy encounter....

Archy like stripper clips too, but usually calls them *chargers* unless around those who don't know better. TFA is working on getting the state law on carry of loaded shotguns/rifles by CCH permit holders legalized.

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[PoorMuttly]

Improved again. Chargers.

Hope I don't need to try that muzzle-feeding technique...though I may "get" to, perhaps. Guess there's nothing really to be gained by the conversion, so I stay with my present equipment. Concerned about encountering larger, nastier critters...as I almost did a few days ago, but didn't need to fight..so it's stock configuration for me, as is.

Any thoughts on durability with hotter loads in my HP, like Cor-Bon 124's ? I'd like to use hotter rounds...but perhaps should go as far as I can with standard velocity...perhaps even 115's, which I've hardly even fired.

[archy]

Any thoughts on durability with hotter loads in my HP, like Cor-Bon 124's ? I'd like to use hotter rounds...but perhaps should go as far as I can with standard velocity...perhaps even 115's, which I've hardly even fired.

In 9mm, or 7,65? In 7,65, you might want to try the lead SWC bullets for .32 revolver cartridges, maybe even a HBWC load like the .38 Special and .38S&W reversed wadcutter loads. In the 7,62x25mm broomhandle/Tokarev I've used the .30 carbine tracer bullet, though it's probably a bit heavy [109 or 111 grains] for 7,65 Luger.

In a 9mm, you might want to think about a Glaser safety slug as the first one up the spout. I've done that more than once, particularly when I figured to be working inside under crowded circumstances. And I've been known to have a spare GP magazine loaded all-Glasers, though I've never had to resort to that somewhat expensive possibility [at $2 to $3 per shot!]

I had access to Super-Vel ammo back in the early 1970s and put more than 20,000 rounds of Lee Jurras' 115-grain HPs through my favoured 68C- GP. Nowadays, mostly ball, whatever I'm putting in a 9mm buzzgun [mostly Lapua and Norma, this past decade] or Cor-bon, depending on what I have on hand.

I've also been looking at the 9mm Federal and Lapua CEPP FMJ hollowpoints. I don't have enough experience yet to come to any conclusions, but I've had good results from both manufacturers in the past.

[archy]

had access to Super-Vel ammo back in the early 1970s and put more than 20,000 rounds of Lee Jurras' 115-grain HPs through my favoured 68C- GP.

Correction on that last. Checking my log for the GP [over 100,000 rounds through it now, on its third barrel] I notice from my 1970s entries that the SV hollowpouint load was a 90-grain JHP.

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[PoorMuttly]

I guess I'll be sticking with my stock Hi Powers, and load Glasers first too, as I usually do, unless forseeing the need for penetration. We found Federal Ball to do a good job into sheet steel, probably the pointed bullet, and lower velocity discouraging ricochet...or something !

Should I switch to Silver from Blue Glasers...having never tested them in anything living...?

But the durability issue is with a good old (early 80's vintage) 9mm HP, and hot Cor-Bons. Will I damage my gun with continued use. I suppose 115's would be less stressful, or wearing...but would they be effective "stoppers," as far as the ctg goes. I use 158gr. LHP's in my .38, and like heavier bullets. There are some hairy possibities looming, and I sure don't want to be undergunned. I was considering Nyclad 124 H.P's too, for good expansion at lower velocity...if Cor-Bon JHPs are bad for the gun. Yikes...what a menu of questions. I just don't want to beat-up my gun...but have no desire to carry what will not work well, and really get the job done. May have determined adversaries, now and then. I have been coming close.

[Squantos]

Dunno ?? The 40 Short & Wimpy version should handle the heat I just don't think the angles and dangles are right for that caliber. I recently asked a bunch of questions regarding using the 357SIG in the 40 version of the BHP. Whole bunch of folks said walk away from that idea. So I think the 40 S&W is all the BHP will digest. Remember the 9x23 ? Wasn't that a dillon inc bastardized conflagration ?

Have ya played with the CZ52 and the 224 er 223 Timbs (?).....my new project. Why ? Because it's there......:o)

http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=248

Stay Safe !

[archy]

Should I switch to Silver from Blue Glasers...having never tested them in anything living...?

I use blues. Or blacks, which I do not think are generally available.

But the durability issue is with a good old (early 80's vintage) 9mm HP, and hot Cor-Bons. Will I damage my gun with continued use. I suppose 115's would be less stressful, or wearing...but would they be effective "stoppers," as far as the ctg goes.

Depends, of course, on what you're trying to stop. I've had no great problems with Federal 9BP or Remingtons 115 grain FMJ-hp

Also to be considered: muzzle flash should you need to use it at night. Try it some evening or in an indoor range with the lights turned down. You do not want to be surprised should such use be required in the wee hours.

I use 158gr. LHP's in my .38,

AKA *Metros*. Me too.

and like heavier bullets. There are some hairy possibities looming, and I sure don't want to be undergunned. I was considering Nyclad 124 H.P's too, for good expansion at lower velocity...if Cor-Bon JHPs are bad for the gun.

I've loaded 158-grain bullets in 9mm cases for my Uzi-semi, and found they worked well in my GP too. My GP will feed empty cases, and so the reversed 148-grain lead wadcutters I load for .38-200 S&W Victory models, #2 Mark1* Enfields and old H&R snubbies sometimes go in my GP too. I keep the velocities low enough that flash and leading aren't serious problems, but they're spectacular on filled 1-gallon jugs at 10 feet or so; it's one way to impress new shooters with what a handgun can do.

I'd hardly tell you to beat up a good GP with hot loads all the time. The Brits noted slide failures before anything else, and the Belgian two-piece barrel I replaced after around 20,000 rounds with a Stainless Bar-Sto tube, not because it needed it but before it did. I retired that barrel after some 80,000 rounds again, not because it really needed it, but I got a good deal on a new one, and that gave me both the old one and the original as spares. But if yours has the external pined and pivoting extractor, keep a close watch around that area for stress crack development. And avoid the British military 9mm ammo, really +P+ loaded by Hirtinberger and really meant for use in the L4A3 Sterling and H&K SMGs.

Yikes...what a menu of questions. I just don't want to beat-up my gun...but have no desire to carry what will not work well, and really get the job done. May have determined adversaries, now and then. I have been coming close.

If it really comes to that, have more than a handgun. If legalities or impracticality make that impractical, at least have a second handgun available; you may be able to fire shots from seperate locations and get the other folks wonderinng if you've acquired a friend or two on your side.

And if you know hostilities are about to commence, you could probably pick up a couple of FReeper visitors for the duration of your interesting times.

You got Kevlar undies? If not, what size are you.

-archy-/-

[archy]

Have ya played with the CZ52 and the 224 er 223 Timbs (?).....my new project. Why ? Because it's there......:o)

http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=248

Stay Safe !

The *Timbs/Tokarev* works in the Soviet TT-33 *Tokarev* pistol, too, the one I've got was Polish made and is of very nice quality, and also suitable for rework to 9x21/ 9x23, .38 Super, or 9mm Largo. The 9x23 case are a good deal stronger in the case web area, a nice touch that makes them a top choice.

And possibilities for the Timbs in a PPS-43 or CZ-26 SMG or PPSh-41 SMG [71 round drums!] are there, too. The velocities of the Timbs/Tokarev out of longer 10-12-inch barrels offer interesting possibilities, as does using the heavier 62-grain bullets of the M855 5,56mm round for better penetration with a 1:9 twist barrel.

You ever noticed that the barrel locking lugs of a TT-33 Tokarev go clear around the barrel? They look like something out of a bank vault design.

-archy-/-