The Wal-Mart 300--Time to put immigration reform back on the Bush agenda

Wall St Journal ^ | 10-24-063

[SJackson]

Federal agents arrested more than 300 illegal immigrants at 60 Wal-Mart stores across the country yesterday. We'll wait to see if there are terrorists hiding behind those blue smocks, or merely striving Mexicans working for $10 an hour. But we already know the case will demonstrate once again the need to fix our immigration laws.

[banjo joe]

businesses need to be able to import talent they can't always find here.

So we can't find janitors now?
Talent for mopping floors?

[Dustbunny]

I am NOT anti immigration, my family were immigrants. Italian, Irish and Ukrainian.

We need to stop all immigration for a period of at least 5 years in order to clean up the immigration service and those here illegally.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

300 busts at 60 Wal Marts, indictments from a grand jury, etc, etc. Sounds like the Feds have these cheapskates by the short hair...

[txdoda]

Where's the BARF ALERT ???


DEPORT the illegals.....FINE the CONTRACTOR ( & W-MART, if guilty ) & quit WHINING because the gov't FINALLY did it's job & busted a few illegals.

[Mike Darancette]

gov't FINALLY did it's job & busted a few illegals.

Yes, round up all of those Eastern Europeans that are flooding our country.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

ping

[gubamyster]

ping

[litany_of_lies]

The bill also gives illegals already here a way to apply for legal status, but requires them to pay a fine for breaking the law.

I'm usually a WSJ fan, but they are totally out to lunch on immigration.

So the illegals pay a fine, now they're legal, and now they vote. All the people who apply for citizenship the right way are made to look like complete fools.

People who gain citizenship by simply paying a fine to be here (to paraphrase Savage) don't respect our borders, won't make the effort to learn this country's language, and have no idea of our common heritage and culture (or if they do, are often hostile to it).

It's a recipe for disaster only a liberal or a shortsighted businessperson could love.

[JFC]

The left is out to hit Wal-Mart. They are one of the few large companies that is NON-UNION. That is what all of the blame Wal-Mart is about, I can promise you.

[litany_of_lies]

I don't disagree that the left is desperate angry at Wal-Mart. The unions have jumped into this case with both feet.

The people involved appear to be contractors, which mitigates the circumstances a bit. BUT if WM really knows that the contracting firm is recklessly using illegals, they need to be nailed. I doubt that they did, or even that the contractor necessarily did.

Based on my limited knowledge of how things work (discussion with a construction company exec), as long as an applicant provides you with legitimate ID, a Social Security number and a signed statement that he/she is a citizen (part of the "everything on this app is true" statement at the end of every app), the employer is off the hook. Under current law, it's not the employer's job to investigate or verify a person's citizenship status, or even to verify the SSN. You might call it a "don't ask, believe them" policy. This is a common misunderstanding of the extent of employer responsibility.

My opinion is that employers need to be required to verify SSNs. If you want to argue civil liberties and privacy on SSNs, that cat's been out of the bag for 30 years.

[gubamyster]

A recent front-page Journal story noted that stricter policing of the southern border, intended to staunch the immigrant flow, has in fact made matters worse. The price of an illegal crossing has tripled since 1995, and the average U.S. stay of an undocumented Mexican had climbed to nine years by the late 1990s from just three years in the 1980s.

Here is the article:

Tighter Border Yields Odd Result: More Illegals Stay

The title is misleading and thier conclusion is false. It is clear from their own article the illegals are not staying because of tighter border controls but from all the free handouts, lack of enforcement of immigration laws and coddling of the illegals:

One local charity reports that demand for Christmas food baskets has tripled in the past two years

settling here has become easier

"We haven't done workplace enforcement for years," says Robert Logazino, head of the Border Patrol's Northern California sector office in Livermore. "We're in the process of being closed down here." Priorities have shifted in law enforcement.

"The houses violate the city code," says Gary Podesto, Stockton's mayor. "But if we chase them out, they will only go live by the river."

They know with certainty that they couldn't have afforded the treatment, which ran into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and for which they paid nothing at San Joaquin General.

U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants have access to the country's social safety net. The Silverios get $650 a month in welfare on behalf of Flor and another $319 on behalf of Cristian.

The nonprofit Council for Spanish speakers, known as El Concilio, says the number of baskets with food distributed at Christmas jumped three-fold in the last two years, to about 1,500.

Medi-Cal, the state and federal health-insurance program, covers illegal immigrants only for emergency treatment, prenatal care and some cases of long-term care in nursing homes.

Moreover, when Medi-Cal won't pay, the burden often falls to local health-care systems. San Joaquin General, which faces a $9 million overall deficit this year, last year lost an average of more than $75 for each patient who visited its emergency room. The ER lost $3.7 million.

[texastoo]

The WSJ and large corporations could care less who the burden of illegal immigration falls on. They just want the cheap labor.

[FITZ]

working for $10 an hour.

Now that's a joke ---- why would Walmart pay it's fully legal workers $6 an hour but pay illegals $10 an hour? There would be no reason at all to bring in these illegals if they intended to pay them that well.

[Pa' fuera]

We'll wait to see if there are terrorists hiding behind those blue smocks, or merely striving Mexicans working for $10 an hour. But we already know the case will demonstrate once again the need to fix our immigration laws.

These were mostly Eastern Europeans, so they won't be going back home after "cleaning season" is over anyway. This article is pure BS, implying that enforcement is the problem, and not all the Hispano-pandering politicians.

[Maria S]

"The left is out to hit Wal-Mart. They are one of the few large companies that is NON-UNION. That is what all of the blame Wal-Mart is about, I can promise you."

Thank you, thank you!!!

This was my thinking the second I heard about this. I KNOW that Walmart is causing smaller stores to close because of their lower prices...but why on earth should I buy (for example) a carton of Cool Whip for $1.79 at Albertsons when I can get it for $ .97 at Walmart? (Of course, Albertsons et al have to jack up prices to pay for all of those union employees making $20-$30 an hour.) Of course, IBP (owned by Tyson Chicken) has hired hundreds of Bosnians and Mexicans. I don't know if they're all legals or not, but IBP is union, so they won't be touched. And Tyson's owner being a friend of Bill and Hil doesn't hurt, either.

"So we can't find janitors now?
Talent for mopping floors?"


Sorry, Americans won't work for minimum wage nor hold down two jobs until something better comes along; out of work Americans prefer welfare. Leave the dirty, low-level work to the immigrants.

[JustPiper]

Representatives Jeff Flake and Jim Kolbe and Senator John McCain

These guys are sellouts, where are the names of the 'true' patriots in DC?

[janetgreen]

Moreover, when Medi-Cal won't pay, the burden often falls to local health-care systems. San Joaquin General, which faces a $9 million overall deficit this year, last year lost an average of more than $75 for each patient who visited its emergency room. The ER lost $3.7 million.

Just ONE hospital forced to swallow a 3.7 million deficit! I think it's clear that no one in Washington has the balls to actually deport illegal aliens, but hasn't it become clear that the cost of supporting them (BILLIONS) should fall on the shoulders of Vicente Fox, President Bush's big buddy? Personally I think they should ALL be deported, but there's only one guy in Washington who agrees, and Tom Tancredo's name is mud to Jorge Bush.

[worldcon]

For real patriots, try http://www.house.gov/tancredo/

To join the fight:
http://www.saveourlicense.com (For Californian's)
http://www.fairus.org/
http://www.americanpatrol.com/
http://www.theterryandersonshow.com/ Grassroots radio in L.A.
http://www.steinreport.com/ FAIR directors news blog

[bcor29]

WalMart is just the tip of the iceberg. We need to deport all illegal aliens (9-11 million) and severely punish the employers who entice them to come. Our crooked politicians who give illegal aliens amnesty, benfits and citizens should be removed from office.

[mtbopfuyn]

The left is out to hit Wal-Mart.

Of course it's all about knocking Wal-Mart down a peg or two. They were not Wal-Mart's employees, but employees of a subcontractor. The media isn't all over the subcontractor but they are certainly condemning Wal-Mart. Although I'm glad they finally rounded up a few dozen illegals, there's millions still out there working for nationally known businesses. I'll be greatly impressed when/if we ever hear about another round up associated with other big businesses.

[Missouri]

where are the names of the 'true' patriots in DC?

Tancredo's name comes to mind.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

The Wal-Mart 300?

Sheeoooot. I thought this was a NASCAR thread.

[Lurking Libertarian]

We'll wait to see if there are terrorists hiding behind those blue smocks, or merely striving Mexicans working for $10 an hour.

The reports I read said they were Eastern Europeans.

[usadave]

Based on my limited knowledge of how things work (discussion with a construction company exec), as long as an applicant provides you with legitimate ID, a Social Security number and a signed statement that he/she is a citizen (part of the "everything on this app is true" statement at the end of every app), the employer is off the hook.

Unfortunately, you're correct about this. All that an illegal alien has to do is provide a fraudulent ID card, a fraudulent Social Security number, and lie on his employment application about being either an American citizen or a foreigner with a legal right to work here, and the illegal alien gets the job.

[litany_of_lies]

You stated it more accurately.

I can understand why companies don't want to become immigration police, but in this day and age it doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to verify a SSN for every applicant, even on an after-hired basis if necessary. I know it smacks of Big Brother, but GMAB, everybody's Social Security Number is not exactly a secret any more.

[traditionalist]

I agree with you about Wal-Mart, which is a great American Company that has done more to improve the living standard of the average rural American than any politician. I doubt they're a guilty party because they were not the ones who hired the illegals.

However, I have to take issue with you here:

Sorry, Americans won't work for minimum wage nor hold down two jobs until something better comes along; out of work Americans prefer welfare. Leave the dirty, low-level work to the immigrants.

Pure BS. There are plenty of low-skill, low intelligence Americans out there who are more than happy to do do dirty jobs. Do you know what the unemployment rate is for high-school dropouts?

[traditionalist]

I can understand why companies don't want to become immigration police, but in this day and age it doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to verify a SSN for every applicant, even on an after-hired basis if necessary. I know it smacks of Big Brother, but GMAB, everybody's Social Security Number is not exactly a secret any more.

Absolutely right. The only trouble is that Wal-Mart could not do this since they were not the employer.

[Maria S]

"Do you know what the unemployment rate is for high-school dropouts?"

Haven't a clue; please tell me. I probably generalize too much; however, when I see 'high-school dropout', I assume (ass of you and me)that said dropout probably isn't interested in finding even low-paying work.

[litany_of_lies]

I indeed realize that WM was subcontracting, and that it really isn't WM's job to verify the immigration status of subcontract employees.

A company I do work with through another person requires HER to get an I-9 from all of HER subcontractors (NOT employees), and to attest that she has done so. I don't think they audit her, but they have it on record that she uses only citizens. If WM did the same with this subctractor, I think they're home-free, except for a bit of bad publicity that isn't their fault. The only exposure is if it can be proven that WM managers knew the sub was using illegals and did nothing-a long shot at best, IMHO (suspected doesn't count, as they are not required by law to verify the immigration status of subcontracter's employees).

The subcontractor, however, would appear to be burnt toast.

[traditionalist]

Haven't a clue; please tell me. I probably generalize too much; however, when I see 'high-school dropout', I assume (ass of you and me)that said dropout probably isn't interested in finding even low-paying work

Unemployment among those who do not finish high school runs about 8%. Among blacks its around 11%. Their average earnings are $18,793 per year. Most of these people need to find low-paying work because they need some sort of work. Most are single, without children, and thus cannot live on welfare. Their families tend to be poor, which means they can't live off their parents. Most are NOT immigrants.

[Aetius]

Whenever the WSJ does a story or editorial on immigration you should remember a few things.

1. Its editor Paul Gigot, while trying to point out why the GOP should become Democrats on immigration, said (in 2001 I think) that the 60% of the white male vote GWB got in 2000 was some sort of ceiling, a mark that they couldn't realitically surpass. This proved the guy is clueless. 60% of the whitle male vote is pathetic for the GOP considering that the Dems actively promote anti-white (esp male) policies. 60% should be seen as a minimum. For a prominent 'conservative' to not see this only proves that they would rather spend more effort to get votes from people not naturally inclined to vote for them (Most immigrants), than to spend a little effort to get the votes of people who are naturally inclined to vote for them (whites). The 54% of the overall white vote that GWB got was also pathetic.

2. Also, whenever someone at the WSJ (or Michael Barone, Fred Barnes, Grover Norquist, Karl Rove, most Senators, ethnic-group lobbies, imm lawyers, media, etc) speaks of fixing or addressing the immigration problem there should be no doubt as to what they really mean: Grant amnesty to illegals and massively increase already mass levels of lega immigration.

3. The McCain/Kolby/Flake Guest Worker Bill is a deceptively titled, disingenuous piece of legislation. It allows the 'guests' to become permanent residents, thus massively increasing legal immigration, and it offers amnesty to illegals aleady here.

[snickeroon]

Traditionalist makes some very important observations, my rant is geared toward the irrational notions which appeared in the WSJ.

First of all, in the state I'm in, (TN) illegals no longer NEED a social security number to obtain a driver's license, food stamps, medical care and/or welfare. Many of them work off the books and get all availabe welfare as well. Most have "families" in excess of 6 people. Do the math. No wonder this state is going down the financial tubes. But it DOES explain how the almost 10% sales tax is INCREASING this year. And NOW I see why the push is on for us to head toward a NATIONAL sales tax.

This article just totally DISGUSTS me. The action needed is a complete moratorium on any sort of amnesty for ILLEGALS. We need to immediately start deporting. In fact, we can deport them to Iraq, maybe they would like to take the place of our troops who are being paid next to nothing for jobs that have a great deal more life and death risk than a janitorial gig.

While my son-in-law's technical job (along with hundreds of others) is being moved to India, our area media is too busy doing stories about how the poor, downtrodden "ILLEGALS" need and yearn for amnesty to notice.

Personally, there is nothing more UNPATRIOTIC than the roster of businesses in this nation which is padding the quarterly financials by using ILLEGALS under the table, shipping out jobs in the name of GATT and NAFTA, and destroying the future of the United States of America in the name of profits. With this sort of acceptable practice endorsed by politicians on both sides of the aisle the terrorists have all the help they need to take this nation down.

Some how, some way, we MUST take back this country before it is too late. But increasingly, I fear we passed the point of TOO LATE years ago.

[traditionalist]

You're absolutely right. My only point is that I don't think we have a basis, YET, to condemn Walmart, which by my estimation is one of the few large corporations whose top management is patriotic.

Of course, I could be wrong. It is possible that Walmart did have a hand in the hiring of illegals, but I seriously doubt it.

[traditionalist]

You're absolutely right. My only point is that I don't think we have a basis, YET, to condemn Walmart, which by my estimation is one of the few large corporations whose top management is patriotic.

Of course, I could be wrong. It is possible that Walmart did have a hand in the hiring of illegals, but I seriously doubt it.

[traditionalist]

You're absolutely right. My only point is that I don't think we have a basis, YET, to condemn Walmart, which by my estimation is one of the few large corporations whose top management is patriotic.

Of course, I could be wrong. It is possible that Walmart did have a hand in the hiring of illegals, but I seriously doubt it.

[kokosanka]

banjo joe! if you can find 5-10-20- janitors now for 5 wm stores wolling to work 7 nights per week ,360-365 days a year for $7.00 per hour let's start buisnes.we'll be rich.only on one term -legal workers.Find them and notyfid me best whishes