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Returning Troll Zotted! Capitalism is not even mathematically possible, let alone biologically viabl
http://www.monbiot.com/ ^ | George Monbiot

Posted on 10/25/2003 11:42:31 AM PDT by PushForBush2004

With the turning of every year, we expect our lives to improve. As long as the economy continues to grow, we imagine, the world will become a more congenial place in which to live. There is no basis for this belief. If we take into account such factors as pollution and the depletion of natural capital, we see that the quality of life peaked in the United Kingdom in 1974 and in the United States in 1968, and has been falling ever since. We are going backwards.

The reason should not be hard to grasp. Our economic system depends upon never-ending growth, yet we live in a world with finite resources. Our expectation of progress is, as a result, a delusion.

This is the great heresy of our times, the fundamental truth which cannot be spoken. It is dismissed as furiously by those who possess power today -- governments, business, the media - as the discovery that the earth orbits the sun was denounced by the late mediaevel Church. Speak this truth in public and you are dismissed as a crank, a prig, a lunatic.

Capitalism is a millenarian cult, raised to the status of a world religion. Like communism, it is built upon the myth of endless exploitation. Just as Christians imagine that their God will deliver them from death, capitalists believe that theirs will deliver them from finity. The world's resources, they assert, have been granted eternal life.

The briefest reflection will show that this cannot be true. The laws of thermodynamics impose inherent limits upon biological production. Even the repayment of debt, the pre-requisite of capitalism, is mathematically possible only in the short-term. As Heinrich Haussmann has shown, a single pfennig invested at 5% compounded interest in the year 0 AD would, by 1990, have reaped a volume of gold 134 billion times the weight of the planet. Capitalism seeks a value of production commensurate with the repayment of debt.

Now, despite the endless denials, it is clear that the wall towards which we are accelarating is not very far away. Within five or ten years, the global consumption of oil is likely to outstrip supply. Every year, up to 75 billion tonnes of topsoil are washed into the sea as a result of unsustainable farming, which equates to the loss of around nine million hectares of productive land. As a result, we can maintain current levels of food production only with the application of phosphate, but phosphate reserves are likely to be exhausted within 80 years. Forty per cent of the world's food is produced with the help of irrigation; some of the key aquifers are already running dry as a result of overuse.

One reason why we fail to understand a concept as simple as finity is that our religion was founded upon the use of other people's resources: the gold, rubber and timber of Latin America, the spices, cotton and dyes of the East Indies, the labour and land of Africa. The frontier of exploitation seemed, to the early colonists, infinitely expandable. Now that geographical expansion has reached its limits, capitalism has moved its frontier from space to time: seizing resources from an infinite future.

An entire industry has been built upon the denial of ecological constraints. Every national newspaper in Britain lamented the "disappointing" volume of sales before Christmas. Sky News devoted much of its Christmas Eve coverage to live reports from Brent Cross, relaying the terrifying intelligence that we were facing "the worst Christmas for shopping since 2000". The survival of humanity has been displaced in the newspapers by the quarterly results of companies selling tableware and knickers.

Partly because they have been brainwashed by the corporate media, partly because of the scale of the moral challenge with which finity confronts them, many people respond to the heresy with unmediated savagery. Last week this column discussed the competition for global grain supplies between humans and livestock. One correspondent, a man named David Roucek, wrote to inform me that the problem is the result of people "breeding indiscriminately. ... When a woman has displayed evidence that she totally disregards the welfare of her offspring by continuing to breed children she cannot support, she has committed a crime and must be punished. The punishment? She must be sterilized to prevent her from perpetrating her crimes upon more innocent children."

There is no doubt that a rising population is one of the factors which threatens the world's capacity to support its people, but human population growth is being massively outstripped by the growth in the number of farm animals. While the rich world's consumption is supposed to be boundless, the human population is likely to peak within the next few decades. But population growth is the one factor for which the poor can be blamed and from which the rich can be excused, so it is the one factor which is repeatedly emphasised.

It is possible to change the way we live. The economist Bernard Lietaer has shown how a system based upon negative rates of interest would ensure that we accord greater economic value to future resources than to present ones. By shifting taxation from employment to environmental destruction, governments could tax over-consumption out of existence. But everyone who holds power today knows that her political survival depends upon stealing from the future to give to the present.

Overturning this calculation is the greatest challenge humanity has ever faced. We need to reverse not only the fundamental presumptions of political and economic life, but also the polarity of our moral compass. Everything we thought was good -- giving more exciting presents to our children, flying to a friend's wedding, even buying newspapers -- turns out also to be bad. It is, perhaps, hardly surprising that so many deny the problem with such religious zeal. But to live in these times without striving to change them is like watching, with serenity, the oncoming truck in your path.


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: ahole; antibush; anticapitalism; breachbirthanoxia; capitalism; codepinkpinko; communism; dusrupter; lyingliar; notanewbie; ozonealert; pufromdu; reddupe; redstarguardian; returningtroll; sandwichshyofpicnic; socialism; strikeupthebanned; syphilliticdementia; takeyourmeds; thisaccountisbanned; trollpinata; usefulidiot; vikingkitties; zot; zotpinata
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What an idiot
1 posted on 10/25/2003 11:42:31 AM PDT by PushForBush2004
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To: PushForBush2004
Long Live Adam Smith!! Long Live the pursuit of Happiness and Wealth!!


2 posted on 10/25/2003 11:50:08 AM PDT by nwrep
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To: PushForBush2004
I couldn't help but laugh out loud at this:

"As Heinrich Haussmann has shown, a single pfennig invested at 5% compounded interest in the year 0 AD would, by 1990, have reaped a volume of gold 134 billion times the weight of the planet."
3 posted on 10/25/2003 11:51:23 AM PDT by Akira (Blessed are the cheesemakers.)
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To: PushForBush2004
Capitalism has failed? Walk into a Home Depot you idiot!
4 posted on 10/25/2003 11:52:09 AM PDT by Don Corleone
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To: PushForBush2004
Of course I could make a really strong arguement that socialism and tyranny will lead the extinction of human race.
5 posted on 10/25/2003 11:53:48 AM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: nwrep
Adam Smith was a man way before his time. Actually I don't we have reached his time yet. :D
6 posted on 10/25/2003 11:55:00 AM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: PushForBush2004
It beats waiting in line for bread or being hip deep in umbrellas in the middle of a desert.
7 posted on 10/25/2003 11:55:04 AM PDT by kylaka
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To: PushForBush2004
What a maroon!
8 posted on 10/25/2003 11:55:35 AM PDT by coffmg
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To: Akira
"Just as Christians imagine that their God..."

Bravo. I love it when leftists touch all the bases.
9 posted on 10/25/2003 11:55:54 AM PDT by At _War_With_Liberals (Hillary's book tour was a thermometer in the behinds of the Dim sheeple for a 2004 run.)
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To: nwrep
Thanks to overpopulation, we have lost much of our freedom and good places to live.
10 posted on 10/25/2003 11:56:22 AM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Don Corleone
The fact is that things have consistently improved wherever capitalism has been tried. Life expectancy, standard of living, plentiful food, disease control, clean water, nifty gadgets, etc., etc.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1882577973/102-4026031-5020132?v=glance
11 posted on 10/25/2003 11:56:59 AM PDT by zencat
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To: PushForBush2004
Re: Speak this truth truckload of bs in public and you are dismissed as a crank, a prig, a lunatic.

Me thinks the reader get's that a lot. That he or she is a crackpot, a looney, a prig, a nutball.

I would venture a guess that when total strangers inform you you are off your rocker, on a daily basis, over the course of years, that one would seek to apply some wizdom to their views ?

The ignorance of liberalism is blissfull, no doubt, but doesn't their intelectial honesty catch up with them sooner or later?

12 posted on 10/25/2003 11:57:36 AM PDT by ChadGore (Kakkate Koi!)
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To: PushForBush2004
Peaked in 1968? I bet I know why he thinks that!!!
13 posted on 10/25/2003 11:58:06 AM PDT by WinOne4TheGipper (Knock Knock. Who's there? Mary Jane.)
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To: PushForBush2004
If we take into account such factors as pollution and the depletion of natural capital, we see that the quality of life peaked in the United Kingdom in 1974 and in the United States in 1968, and has been falling ever since. We are going backwards.

This is true. In '68, I got Hot Wheels Superchargers and a Strange Change Machine for Christmas.

Top that.


14 posted on 10/25/2003 11:58:06 AM PDT by Sabertooth (No Drivers' Licences for Illegal Aliens. Petition SB60. http://www.saveourlicense.com/n_home.htm)
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To: Admin Moderator
I think we're entitled to know which troll returned, since you put it in the headline. C'mon! Who was it?
15 posted on 10/25/2003 11:58:16 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: PushForBush2004
The reason should not be hard to grasp. Our economic system depends upon never-ending growth, yet we live in a world with finite resources. Our expectation of progress is, as a result, a delusion.

This is the stupidest thing I've read in a while. You can get growth by more efficient use of resources, however 'finite'. My flat-panel monitor uses a fraction of my old crt-based one, meaning I get far more display time for a unit of energy. That's replicated throughout our economy. Not to mention that we get increasingly good at locating and exploiting resources, deep-water oil drilling being one example. Consequently, the costs of those resources keeps going down as Julian Simon's bet with Paul Ehrlich made clear. Disregard anything this dope has to say.

16 posted on 10/25/2003 11:59:00 AM PDT by John Jorsett
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To: PushForBush2004
Logic of the left

The glass is not half full.
The glass is not half empty.

The glass is too big.
17 posted on 10/25/2003 11:59:04 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: PushForBush2004
"Speak this truth in public and you are dismissed as a crank, a prig, a lunatic."

And rightly so, you enviro-socialist moron.

There is no common ground upon which response to Monbiot's assertions is possible. It's like arguing with a demented juvenile.

18 posted on 10/25/2003 11:59:09 AM PDT by okie01 (www.ArmorforCongress.com...because Congress isn't for the morally halt and the mentally lame.)
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
Right on. I can't believe the author was unable to work in an anti-gun position in there somewhere. Clearly a novice at work here...
19 posted on 10/25/2003 11:59:20 AM PDT by Akira (Blessed are the cheesemakers.)
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
"The reason should not be hard to grasp."

(Unless you are a stupid, greedy, exploitative American capitalist)

Sorry, pal, we cannot all be as noble as columnists.
20 posted on 10/25/2003 11:59:30 AM PDT by At _War_With_Liberals (Hillary's book tour was a thermometer in the behinds of the Dim sheeple for a 2004 run.)
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To: PushForBush2004
Our expectation of progress is, as a result, a delusion.

The stupidity of this article astounds me.

Name one other country under another economic system that is richer than the U.S. and it's capitalist system?

21 posted on 10/25/2003 11:59:39 AM PDT by sirchtruth
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
"Just as Christians imagine that their God..."

That's very cute, but will these liberals ever say anything like "Just as Muslims imagine their Moon Devil God Allah"?

22 posted on 10/25/2003 11:59:49 AM PDT by Pubbie (Vote "No" On Recall, "Yes" On Bustamante)
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Of course I could make a really strong arguement that socialism and tyranny will lead the extinction of human race.

Oh please do. I would love to read it.

23 posted on 10/25/2003 12:00:33 PM PDT by expatguy
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To: PushForBush2004
Dear George Monbiot -

In rural Texas Panhandle parlance, you, Sir, are full of prunes.

24 posted on 10/25/2003 12:00:35 PM PDT by Maria S ("When the passions become masters, they are vices." Pascal, 1670)
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To: PushForBush2004

25 posted on 10/25/2003 12:03:36 PM PDT by expatguy
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To: PushForBush2004
quality of life peaked in the United Kingdom in 1974 and in the United States in 1968

I would say in may senses this is true.

Though some things are better now, I would still find it better to live in the United States and world of 1968 than today.

26 posted on 10/25/2003 12:04:19 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Age of Reason
Still beating the same drum, eh?
27 posted on 10/25/2003 12:04:19 PM PDT by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: PushForBush2004
Time for the Viking Kitties -- Orange Furball Division.

TAKE THAT !!!! TROLL !!!!


28 posted on 10/25/2003 12:06:41 PM PDT by PetroniDE (Kitty Is My Master - I Do What She Says)
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To: PushForBush2004
The letters of "George Monbiot" also spell "Booger Emoting".
29 posted on 10/25/2003 12:06:48 PM PDT by John Jorsett
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To: metesky
Still beating the same drum, eh?

Better than dancing to someone else's.

30 posted on 10/25/2003 12:07:23 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Age of Reason
But that same repetitive note...
31 posted on 10/25/2003 12:08:27 PM PDT by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: sirchtruth
Name one other country under another economic system that is richer than the U.S. and it's capitalist system?

Richer in what?

32 posted on 10/25/2003 12:08:50 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Admin Moderator
Viking Kitties Catch another Troll.....
Here is a photo of them as they determine the fate of the captured troll.


33 posted on 10/25/2003 12:09:52 PM PDT by PetroniDE (Kitty Is My Master - I Do What She Says)
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To: PushForBush2004
Just for you, these kittens are more your type.
34 posted on 10/25/2003 12:11:00 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: longtermmemmory
The glass is too big.

The glass belongs to Evil White Males who had it created by Minority Slave Labor and blown in GlassBlowing Sweatshops where other Evil White Males stand Guard, Whips In Hand, over Persons Of Color who Toil In Flames while The Man laughs over Martinis in His Air Conditioned Office, Paid For By the Rightwing Tax Refunds To The Rich

The Glass Has Holes In It because That is The Only Way to hold the Victims of The System down.

Clearly, Reparations are Needed to Redress this Opression.

35 posted on 10/25/2003 12:11:10 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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To: Age of Reason
How old are you? I LIVED in 1968 and it was no picnic, let me tell you!

Riots in every capitol and on every American campus, everyone angry or fearful, assasinations of major political figures (RFK and MLK), loss of confidence in America, etc.

It was not a good time to have a baby, an yet that was the year my son was born, which is the ONLY good thing I can say about 1968.

36 posted on 10/25/2003 12:12:09 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: PetroniDE
Eat it!
37 posted on 10/25/2003 12:12:35 PM PDT by WinOne4TheGipper (If you build it, city council will change zoning on you.)
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To: Age of Reason
1968 no FR life not so good
2003 yes FR life muuuuuch better
38 posted on 10/25/2003 12:12:38 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: will1776
"Peaked in 1968"

The zenith in the history of civilization, no doubt.

All due to the thought of the greatest intellectuals the world has ever known.

39 posted on 10/25/2003 12:14:15 PM PDT by At _War_With_Liberals (Hillary's book tour was a thermometer in the behinds of the Dim sheeple for a 2004 run.)
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To: Akira
Whatever happened to the 70's socialist warning about water running out and the human race becoming extinct?
40 posted on 10/25/2003 12:17:43 PM PDT by At _War_With_Liberals (Hillary's book tour was a thermometer in the behinds of the Dim sheeple for a 2004 run.)
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To: longtermmemmory
That's about right.
41 posted on 10/25/2003 12:20:07 PM PDT by WinOne4TheGipper (If you build it, city council will change zoning on you.)
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To: PetroniDE
Uh-oh, it looks like we're about to see Democracy in action.
42 posted on 10/25/2003 12:21:46 PM PDT by Erasmus
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To: PushForBush2004
"The economist Bernard Lietaer has shown how a system based upon negative rates of interest would ensure that we accord greater economic value to future resources than to present ones."

supercalifragalisticexpialidoshous

I'll let the author go first. I stand ready to borrow money from him and have him pay me for the privilege.

43 posted on 10/25/2003 12:21:47 PM PDT by groanup (Whom the market gods humble they first make proud.)
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To: Pubbie
Islam is now the religion de jour... no doubt about it .

Liberals here and abroad have adopted the position of philosophically supporting Islam over Christianity.

The message is clear in many respects. Christianity must be destroyed at all costs, even if it means an alliance with Islamists. Leftists are the self declared allies of Islamists, and therefore our enemies.
44 posted on 10/25/2003 12:22:12 PM PDT by At _War_With_Liberals (Hillary's book tour was a thermometer in the behinds of the Dim sheeple for a 2004 run.)
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To: Miss Marple
that was the year my son was born, which is the ONLY good thing I can say about 1968.

'68 was also a great year for cars and rock n' roll records.

45 posted on 10/25/2003 12:23:29 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: PushForBush2004
OK. Who is this idiot?

Who I am

George Monbiot is the author of the best selling books The Age of Consent: a manifesto for a new world order and Captive State: the corporate takeover of Britain; as well as the investigative travel books Poisoned Arrows, Amazon Watershed and No Man's Land. He writes a weekly column for the Guardian newspaper.

During seven years of investigative journeys in Indonesia, Brazil and East Africa, he was shot at, beaten up by military police, shipwrecked and stung into a poisoned coma by hornets. He came back to work in Britain after being pronounced clinically dead in Lodwar General Hospital in north-western Kenya, having contracted cerebral malaria.

In Britain, he joined the roads protest movement. He was hospitalised by security guards, who drove a metal spike through his foot, smashing the middle bone. He helped to found The Land is Ours, which has occupied land all over the country, including 13 acres of prime real estate in Wandsworth belonging to the Guinness corporation and destined for a giant superstore. The protesters beat Guinness in court, built an eco-village and held onto the land for six months.

He has held visiting fellowships or professorships at the universities of Oxford (environmental policy), Bristol (philosophy), Keele (politics) and East London (environmental science). He is currently visiting professor of planning at Oxford Brookes University. In 1995 Nelson Mandela presented him with a United Nations Global 500 Award for outstanding environmental achievement. He has also won the Lloyds National Screenwriting Prize for his screenplay The Norwegian, a Sony Award for radio production, the Sir Peter Kent Award and the OneWorld National Press Award.

back to George Monbiot's website

It's too bad the hornets and the maleria didn't finish him.

46 posted on 10/25/2003 12:23:45 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: PushForBush2004
What's with the cries to ban this? I think it's useful to see what the other side is up to. If we just sit around here and post things that we agree with, we run the danger of being blindsided when this sort of crap starts getting traction with the public. We need to know it's out there so that we can counter it.
47 posted on 10/25/2003 12:26:31 PM PDT by John Jorsett
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To: Sabertooth
This is true. In '68, I got Hot Wheels Superchargers and a Strange Change Machine for Christmas.

I got laid.

48 posted on 10/25/2003 12:27:03 PM PDT by VRWC_minion (Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and most are right)
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To: PushForBush2004
Please return his meds to him, he is suffering.
49 posted on 10/25/2003 12:29:06 PM PDT by paolop
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To: groanup
supercalifragalisticexpialidoshous

Supercalifragilisticexpialidoshouscious

50 posted on 10/25/2003 12:29:30 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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