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Evidence Points to Dirty-Bomb Plot
Insight ^ | Oct. 29, 2003 | Scott L. Wheeler

Posted on 10/29/2003 9:48:28 AM PST by Tailgunner Joe

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1 posted on 10/29/2003 9:48:28 AM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe
I hope counter-intellgence is on top of this but fear not given the continued fetish with finding boxcutters on planes.
2 posted on 10/29/2003 9:51:29 AM PST by Semper Paratus
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To: Tailgunner Joe
High-grade uranium is not necessary for this project; ordinary, low-grade nuclear waste will be deadly enough.

If it's "low grade," how is it deadly? A bunch of paper booties from a nuclear power plant contaminated with slightly radioactive dust is not something to strike terror into the heart of man, nor is high-grade uranium a particularly dangerous substance for environmental contamination. My in-laws' granite countertop probably gives off more radiation than a uranium-based dirty bomb would.

I wish these reporters would educate themselves before spouting this kind of nonsense.

3 posted on 10/29/2003 9:53:51 AM PST by mvpel
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To: mvpel
Low Grade doesn't mean it's totally impotent - it just isn't suitable for making nukes that go kapow. Drink an ounce of water that is 25% cyanide and you will be just as dead as if it were pure cyanide.
4 posted on 10/29/2003 9:57:17 AM PST by trebb
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To: trebb
If someone was going to make a dirty bomb, we'd be blessed if they used uranium. If they used cesium, found as a radiation source in medical and industrial applications, it would be an entirely different story.
5 posted on 10/29/2003 10:06:59 AM PST by mvpel
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To: mvpel
"I wish these reporters would educate themselves before spouting this kind of nonsense."

I'm no expert in physics or radiation, but I do know 1 thing: Fear sells.

6 posted on 10/29/2003 10:10:12 AM PST by theDentist (Liberals can sugarcoat sh** all they want. I'm not biting.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
How about this message to the terrorists?

If you detonate one dirty bomb in the U.S., we nuke Mecca to the "promised land".
8 posted on 10/29/2003 10:15:11 AM PST by PetroniDE (Kitty Is My Master - I Do What She Says)
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To: PetroniDE
I think they should just go ahead and Nuke Mecca for posterity.
9 posted on 10/29/2003 10:19:56 AM PST by ConservativeMan55 (The left always "feels your pain" unless of course they caused it.)
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To: PetroniDE
we nuke Mecca to the "promised land".

Why waste a nuke on a religious site?

Use it on the home town(s) of the terrorist(s)

10 posted on 10/29/2003 10:22:13 AM PST by ASA Vet (BR 549)
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To: theDentist
Fear sells.

Good point. If an attack occurs that scatters radiological material, the stuff doesn't need to be any more radioactive than watch-dial Radium. Al Q can depend on the American media to do most of the work for them: we'll no choice but to treat it as a full-blown radiologic incident- closing down the affected area and downwind, carting off topsoil, etc.

11 posted on 10/29/2003 10:29:54 AM PST by Riley
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To: ASA Vet
Unfortunately, it wouldn't work, because these terrorists are nihilist and as such, think everyone should fight the good fight for Allah. Of course, who gave them the power to decide for eveyone remains a mystery.

The threat should be toward everyone financing and supporting them. Try threatening Iran & Saudia Arabia. Come to think of it, I believe we have with our move on Iraq. Well done GWB.
12 posted on 10/29/2003 10:33:17 AM PST by playball0 (Fortune favors the bold)
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: playball0
think everyone should fight the good fight for Allah

I'm not interested in their thought processes, (if any.)
My solution was just straight forward simple elimination of the town.
Repeated as often as required.

The Orkin Man doesn't try to convince cockroaches to be nice.

14 posted on 10/29/2003 10:41:45 AM PST by ASA Vet (BR 549)
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To: ido_now; ASA Vet
Hey ASA, is ido_now insulting your tribe here?:

Evidence points to the fact that this story is forAS-HOLES.

15 posted on 10/29/2003 10:56:48 AM PST by Grampa Dave ("If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less.")
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To: ASA Vet
Merry Christmas
16 posted on 10/29/2003 10:58:03 AM PST by I_love_weather
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To: PetroniDE
Oh, the socialist democrats would never stand for that. Too many votes for them over there. Future voters in Kaliforniastan also.
17 posted on 10/29/2003 11:05:15 AM PST by RetiredArmy (We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American Way! Toby Keith)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Is there a picture of this guy available?
18 posted on 10/29/2003 11:11:02 AM PST by jerseygirl
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To: ConservativeMan55
I favor the "self-illuminating, glass-bottomed parking lot" solution, as applied to camel-land generally.
19 posted on 10/29/2003 11:13:42 AM PST by Redbob
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To: Redbob
One of the nice things about your solution is that there's little difficulty
with drilling and pumping oil though a couple feet of glass.
20 posted on 10/29/2003 11:16:44 AM PST by ASA Vet (BR 549)
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To: PetroniDE
If you detonate one dirty bomb in the U.S., we nuke Mecca to the "promised land".

I did not hear anyone say lets bomb the vatican when Tim Mcveigh killed all those people in the federal building.

When Hitler and his Nazi killed millons, nobody talked about blowing up the pope or the queen of England, as head of their respective churches.

When the slaugher was going on in Yugoslavia, nobody wanted to blow up the vatican.

When the child molester priests for the last god only knows how many years have benn molesting children in their care, nobody calls for the end to the church, they do not even call for an excomunication from the church, which is the least they could do.

I did not hear anyone say let ban christian cults when Koresh and his people died down there.

or when Jim Jones killed 638 adults and 276 children. Nobody shouted bomb the vatican, cancel religious TV from the air. ban all cults. HEll NO

But when some News reporter wants to make a name for him/herself they can get instant headlines around the world and everyone want to blow up Mekkah.

There are 1.5 billion muslims, who worship only one God, the same as the christian god, the same as the jewish, god, and they are not all terorists.

If a few of them, compared to the 1.5 billion, calling it a few is still going a little far, want to be terrorists and kill innocents, then they will pay an awful price here and the next life.

Each and everyone one of us will be standing there in our birthday suits and will be judged on all our actions.

21 posted on 10/29/2003 11:18:22 AM PST by John_11_25
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To: Grampa Dave
I don't know if my entire tribe fits that description,
but so many people have told me I'm one
I don't protest anymore.
22 posted on 10/29/2003 11:20:31 AM PST by ASA Vet (BR 549)
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To: ASA Vet
Same here and with my oldest son. Many of the managers and supervisors below him, refer to him as A$$hole, Sir!
23 posted on 10/29/2003 11:22:10 AM PST by Grampa Dave ("If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less.")
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To: Tailgunner Joe
God forbid they get ahold of some cesium or cobalt. They will cause total havoc.. http://www.fas.org/faspir/2002/v55n2/dirtybomb.htm FAS Public Interest Report The Journal of the Federation of American Scientists March / April 2002 Volume 55, Number 2 Dirty Bombs: Response to a Threat
24 posted on 10/29/2003 11:22:36 AM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Two words: Threat Matrix
25 posted on 10/29/2003 11:29:34 AM PST by JustPiper (18 of 19 Hijackers had State issued Driver's License's !!!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Example 1:
Cesium (Gamma Emitter)
Two weeks ago, a lost medical gauge containing cesium was discovered in North Carolina. Imagine that the cesium in this device was exploded in Washington, DC in a bomb using ten pounds of TNT. The initial passing of the radioactive cloud would be relatively harmless, and no one would have to evacuate immediately. However, residents of an area of about five city blocks, if they remained, would have a one-in-a-thousand chance of getting cancer. A swath about one mile long covering an area of forty city blocks would exceed EPA contamination limits, with remaining residents having a one-in-ten thousand chance of getting cancer. If decontamination were not possible, these areas would have to be abandoned for decades. If the device was detonated at the National Gallery of Art, the contaminated area might include the Capitol, Supreme Court, and Library of Congress, as seen if Figure 1.

Figure 1. Long-term Contamination Due to Cesium Bomb in Washington, DC.

Inner Ring: One cancer death per 100 people due to remaining radiation (5% increase)
Middle Ring: One cancer death per 1,000 people due to remaining radiation (.5% increase)
Outer Ring: One cancer death per 10,000 people due to remaining radiation (.05% increase): EPA recommends decontamination or destruction

Figure 2. Example 2:
Cobalt (Gamma Emitter)

Now imagine if a single piece of radioactive cobalt from a food irradiation plant were dispersed by an explosion at the lower tip of Manhattan. Typically, each of these cobalt "pencils" is about one inch in diameter and one foot long, with hundreds of such pieces often being found in the same facility. Admittedly, acquisition of such material is less likely than in the previous scenario, but we still consider the results, depicted in Figure 2. Again, no immediate evacuation would be necessary, but in this case, an area of approximately one-thousand square kilometers, extending over three states, would be contaminated. Over an area of about three hundred typical city blocks, there would be a one-in-ten risk of death from cancer for residents living in the contaminated area for forty years. The entire borough of Manhattan would be so contaminated that anyone living there would have a one-in-a-hundred chance of dying from cancer caused by the residual radiation. It would be decades before the city was inhabitable again, and demolition might be necessary.

For comparison, consider the 1986 Chernobyl disaster, in which a Soviet nuclear power plant went through a meltdown. Radiation was spread over a vast area, and the region surrounding the plant was permanently closed. In our current example, the area contaminated to the same level of radiation as that region would cover much of Manhattan, as shown in Figure 3. Furthermore, near Chernobyl, a larger area has been subject to periodic controls on human use such as restrictions on food, clothing, and time spent outdoors. In the current example, the equivalent area extends fifteen miles.

Long-term Contamination Due to Cobalt Bomb in NYC - EPA Standards.

Inner Ring: One cancer death per 100 people due to remaining radiation (5% increase)
Middle Ring: One cancer death per 1,000 people due to remaining radiation (.5% increase)
Outer Ring: One cancer death per 10,000 people due to remaining radiation (.05% increase): EPA recommends decontamination or destruction

Figure 3. Contamination Due to Cobalt Bomb in NYC - Chernobyl Comparison.

Inner Ring: Same radiation level as permanently closed zone around Chernobyl
Middle Ring: Same radiation level as permanently controlled zone around Chernobyl
Outer Ring: Same radiation level as periodically controlled zone around Chernobyl

26 posted on 10/29/2003 11:30:59 AM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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To: Grampa Dave
Better than "Cleymer" I suppose.
27 posted on 10/29/2003 11:33:40 AM PST by ASA Vet (ssel neve ecnavelerri ekil ot gniog er'uoy, egnahc ekil t'nod uoy fi)
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To: John_11_25
I can't tell whether you agree or disagree with the original post; However, I think some clarification is needed because your comparisons are not equivalent.

It is well understood that one of the terrorists stated missions is "destruction of Israel". Another of their stated missions is for all to be converted to Islam (all else must perish). They don't want to live side by side with Christians, Jews, Buddists, and other religions. Since the United States is the ultimate symbol of religious freedom, we are the target.

Some of your comparisons are more military than religious based. The others were more local in nature and did not place in peril (at least directly) the freedoms we enjoy.

Finally, my post did not explicity say "nuke Mecca". It was meant that the implicit "threat" to their so-called "holy city" would sent the terrorists into fear mode; much the same way the U.S.S. Hornet sent an "implied threat" against the Japanese Emperor on April 16, 1942. While not considered to have a major military impact at the time, it coerced the Japanese into making the greatest military mistake of their history (closing the Midway "keyhole").

28 posted on 10/29/2003 11:34:23 AM PST by PetroniDE (Kitty Is My Master - I Do What She Says)
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To: mvpel
You are wrong.

Not talking of low-grade Uranium, but of low-grade nuclear waste, which is amalgam of toxic substances. Low concentration of Cesium-137, Iodine-131, Cobalt-60, Strontium-90, etc. will do bad things if placed next to explosive, and that is classic definition of dirty bomb.

29 posted on 10/29/2003 11:41:09 AM PST by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: PetroniDE
I disagree with your post.

I have never heard UBL mention any time that he wanted the distruction of Israel. He said until the people/brothers of Palestine are free.

The items I mentioned were all Christian people, but their religion is never mentioned, but when one criminal professes to belive in Islam, then the whole world knows about it.

When a few people are causing a problem, you cannot hold the threat of Nuking Mekkah, because the sort of people you are dealing with would like nothing more than you to Nuke Mekkah, as then they would have 1.5 billion people on there side.

You have to make it a criminal offence and go after them like criminals, you make it political or religious, then its like you are killing them for thier religious views or political views, which you should not do.

You go after them for the crimes they have commited or for threatening to kill people, this is also a crime.

With regard to wanting to convert everyone to Islam, I do not know if that is their extrem views, I just think they want nothing to do with western culture, or should we say lack of culture the way things have been going in the last few years, where it seems anything goes to please the liberals of this world.

30 posted on 10/29/2003 11:58:34 AM PST by John_11_25
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To: mvpel
"If it's "low grade," how is it deadly?"

low grade = not weapons grade.

Both are stil very deadly.
31 posted on 10/29/2003 11:58:52 AM PST by jbstrick (Behold the Power of CHEESE!)
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: Tailgunner Joe; PetroniDE
Heh AQ you call that a bomb??? See that mushroom cloud where MECCA used to be? NOW THAT'S A BOMB!!!!!!
33 posted on 10/29/2003 12:02:41 PM PST by BiteMedems (Proud Voter of GWB)
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To: John_11_25
...the same as the jewish, god...

Utter B.S.

34 posted on 10/29/2003 12:08:02 PM PST by tubavil
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Not to worry, the 1.3 Billion "moderate muslims" will take care of their own 25 "extremists" and save the U.S.
35 posted on 10/29/2003 12:11:27 PM PST by tubavil
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To: John_11_25
There are 1.5 billion Muslims, who worship only one God, the same as the Christian God, the same as the Jewish, God, and they are not all terrorists.

There is a difference between an Islamist and a Muslim.
An Islamist wants to kill you.
A Muslim merely wants you dead.


and they are not all terrorists.

I guess it's the 99% of the violent hateful Muslims that spoil it for the other 1%.

36 posted on 10/29/2003 1:32:31 PM PST by Bon mots
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To: John_11_25
Well, I disagree with some of your points. At least we can disagree respectivefully (unlike other disagreements elsewhere in the world).

I have never heard UBL mention any time that he wanted the distruction of Israel. He said until the people/brothers of Palestine are free.

He mentioned in one speech the Balfour declaration (which eventually led to the creation of Israel). Unfournately, the terrorist definition of a "freed Palestine" is NO ISRAEL. If the muslims from the beginning tried to negotiate with the Jews instead of "drive them to the sea", the Middle East would not be the powder keg it is today.

The items I mentioned were all Christian people, but their religion is never mentioned, but when one criminal professes to belive in Islam, then the whole world knows about it.

I don't see Christian Taliban murdering their people for not following the religion according to their interpretation. They may have done that in the Middle Ages. Even if there are recent examples, that does not constitute a threat to our freedoms.

When a few people are causing a problem, you cannot hold the threat of Nuking Mekkah, because the sort of people you are dealing with would like nothing more than you to Nuke Mekkah, as then they would have 1.5 billion people on there side.

Here you have a point. The Japanese analogy would still hold if the "rank and file" muslim responds differently from the suicide mentality. Even the Japanese didn't follow their Moshido code to the letter in WWII. Which theory is correct? Let's call that question even.

You have to make it a criminal offence and go after them like criminals, you make it political or religious, then its like you are killing them for thier religious views or political views, which you should not do. You go after them for the crimes they have commited or for threatening to kill people, this is also a crime.

These two comments go together. This is WAR. You could make an argument that war itself is a crime. Here you have a point since throughout history most wars are fought over religious or politicial views. However, on September 11, 2001 happened, they attacked our innocent civilians. At that point, we have no other choice but war.

With regard to wanting to convert everyone to Islam, I do not know if that is their extrem views, I just think they want nothing to do with western culture, or should we say lack of culture the way things have been going in the last few years, where it seems anything goes to please the liberals of this world.

The mainstream doesn't think that way, but the extreme elements do. The extreme elements of Islam hate Christians as much as they hate Jews, but for some reason they see the Jews as a bigger threat. They want nothing to do with western culture because they see how backwards theirs has become.

37 posted on 10/29/2003 1:37:56 PM PST by PetroniDE (Kitty Is My Master - I Do What She Says)
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To: John_11_25
If the poor Muslims want everyone to leave them alone, then maybe they should tell their Imams to stop issuing fatwas calling for the "death of all infidels."

The same God, huh? The Christian God is the triune God of the Bible (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). The Muslims believe that Jesus (the Son) is a prophet and inferior to Mohammad. Seems like Jesus got a pretty serious demotion in the Muslim view of things.
38 posted on 10/29/2003 1:50:03 PM PST by CommerceComet
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To: ASA Vet
"One of the nice things about your solution is that there's little difficulty with drilling and pumping oil though a couple feet of glass."

Egg-zackerly!

39 posted on 10/29/2003 2:23:26 PM PST by Redbob
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To: Tailgunner Joe
LINKS of Interest:


NY POST.com: "NEW FBI SECTION FOCUSES ON WMD" (October 22, 2003) (Read More...)

On The Net...FBI.gov - "CONGRESSIONAL STATEMENTS" (Read More...)

WorldNetDaily.com: "UNCLE SAM WANTS YOU -- TO SHOOT DOWN MISSILES Pentagon Solicits Ideas on Best Plan to Protect America" (October 19, 2003) (Read More...)

WASHINGTON TIMES.com: "AL QAEDA PURSUED A 'DIRTY BOMB'" by Bill Gertz (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Adnan El Shukrijumah is being sought by the FBI and CIA in connection with a plot to detonate a dirty bomb -- a conventional explosive laced with radioactive material.") (October 17, 2003) (Read More...)
FBI.gov - Seeking Information: "ADNAN G. EL SHUKRIJUMAH" (View Photos;Read More...)

40 posted on 10/29/2003 2:31:57 PM PST by Cindy
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To: backhoe; HAL9000; piasa; Alamo-Girl; F14 Pilot; Marine Inspector; Dog; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ...
INFO Ping
41 posted on 10/29/2003 2:52:08 PM PST by Cindy
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To: JohnHuang2; kattracks; Jeff Head
INFO Ping
42 posted on 10/29/2003 2:54:50 PM PST by Cindy
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To: Tailgunner Joe
...as well as the university hospital that routinely generates nuclear waste.

Practically every hospital routinely generates nuclear waste.

43 posted on 10/29/2003 2:55:24 PM PST by Timesink
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To: Cindy
Radioactive substance seized in Latvia is strontium: official (can be used for dirty bombs)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1010805/posts
44 posted on 10/29/2003 3:13:59 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: Angelus Errare; Peach; Coop
Adnan El Shukrijumah........has turned up.... Insight in field interviews has obtained evidence that he was spotted several times last year on the campus of McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario. Now, subsequent to Insight's field investigation, news reports are saying that "an FBI source" has confirmed El Shukrijumah's presence.
45 posted on 10/29/2003 4:41:32 PM PST by Dog
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To: Dog
Now, subsequent to Insight's field investigation, news reports are saying that "an FBI source" has confirmed El Shukrijumah's presence.

Does that mean the FBI is tracking him?

46 posted on 10/29/2003 4:48:46 PM PST by aristeides
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To: aristeides; Angelus Errare
I'm not sure Angelus can anwer that question......but I'll tell you .....this is worrying....because he will not give up until he complete's his mission.
47 posted on 10/29/2003 4:57:03 PM PST by Dog
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To: John_11_25
All Muslims might not be terrorists, but all the countries run by Muslims are complete screw-ups at the moment. Except maybe Turkey, due to its highly secular military.

There are no countries in the world right now where Biblical law is the end-all of all laws. There are some nutty things in Deuteronomy by today's standards. But there are lots of governments that rigorously apply the Koran. Total subjugation of women. No interest. So following the Koran makes your country a complete basket case, unless you happen to have your country on the same place where a couple million dinosaurs happened to die, so you can hire some infidels, have them pump out the oil, and sell it to other infidels who use it to create consumer goods that you can buy.

48 posted on 10/29/2003 5:11:00 PM PST by Koblenz (There's usually a free market solution)
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To: ASA Vet
we nuke Mecca to the "promised land".

Why waste a nuke on a religious site?

Use it on the home town(s) of the terrorist(s)

Or just dirty bomb Mecca and have the psyops boys stress the need for all good terrorist muslums to continue their pilgrimages to Mecca. 72 virgins and all that, you know

49 posted on 10/29/2003 8:44:05 PM PST by Colorado Doug
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To: Cindy
Thanks for the information!
50 posted on 10/29/2003 8:54:02 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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