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Scientists find evolution of life
EurekAlert ^ | 10/30/03

Posted on 10/30/2003 5:04:39 PM PST by Dales

LIVERMORE, Calif. -- A trio of scientists including a researcher from the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory has found that humans may owe the relatively mild climate in which their ancestors evolved to tiny marine organisms with shells and skeletons made out of calcium carbonate.

In a paper titled "Carbonate Deposition, Climate Stability and Neoproterozoic Ice Ages" in the Oct. 31 edition of Science, UC Riverside researchers Andy Ridgwell and Martin Kennedy along with LLNL climate scientist Ken Caldeira, discovered that the increased stability in modern climate may be due in part to the evolution of marine plankton living in the open ocean with shells and skeletal material made out of calcium carbonate. They conclude that these marine organisms helped prevent the ice ages of the past few hundred thousand years from turning into a severe global deep freeze.

"The most recent ice ages were mild enough to allow and possibly even promote the evolution of modern humans," Caldeira said. "Without these tiny marine organisms, the ice sheets may have grown to cover the earth, like in the snowball glaciations of the ancient past, and our ancestors might not have survived."

The researchers used a computer model describing the ocean, atmosphere and land surface to look at how atmospheric carbon dioxide would change as a result of glacier growth. They found that, in the distant past, as glaciers started to grow, the oceans would suck the greenhouse gas -- carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere -- making the Earth colder, promoting an even deeper ice age. When marine plankton with carbonate shells and skeletons are added to the model, ocean chemistry is buffered and glacial growth does not cause the ocean to absorb large amounts of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

But in Precambrian times (which lasted up until 544 million years ago), marine organisms in the open ocean did not produce carbonate skeletons -- and ancient rocks from the end of the Precambrian geological age indicate that huge glaciers deposited layers of crushed rock debris thousands of meters thick near the equator. If the land was frozen near the equator, then most of the surface of the planet was likely covered in ice, making Earth look like a giant snowball, the researchers said.

Around 200 million years ago, calcium carbonate organisms became critical to helping prevent the earth from freezing over. When the organisms die, their carbonate shells and skeletons settle to the ocean floor, where some dissolve and some are buried in sediments. These deposits help regulate the chemistry of the ocean and the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. However, in a related study published in Nature on Sept. 25, 2003, Caldeira and LLNL physicist Michael Wickett found that unrestrained release of fossil-fuel carbon dioxide to the atmosphere could threaten extinction for these climate-stabilizing marine organisms.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crevolist
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To: HalfFull
I'm not going to take the bait.
601 posted on 11/02/2003 3:50:48 PM PST by CobaltBlue ( Virtual Ignore is my friend.)
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To: HalfFull
consider this my last post to you.

You promised this to Aric2000, but since you think I'm him, can I go ahead and take that as a promise to me as well?

Thanks
602 posted on 11/02/2003 4:00:54 PM PST by Ogmios (Since when is 66 senate votes for judicial confirmations constitutional?)
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To: HalfFull
So, I guess you are saying those who hold to Gen 1 are not Christians, but "anti-evos"?

False dichotomy. It was never claimed that "anti-evos" cannot also be Christians.
603 posted on 11/02/2003 4:01:37 PM PST by Dimensio (The only thing you feel when you take a human life is recoil. -- Frank "Earl" Jones)
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To: Prodigal Son
I would just like to know what the point of these threads are but will not ask because I will not get an honest answer- from anyone.

Ok, so you're not asking, but I will give you my perspective anyway.

I initially found these science threads very interesting. I had access as a freeper to many very fine and well-educated minds, and I enjoyed the exchange of information. As time has progressed, however, these threads have been taken over by unnamed individuals with an agenda. The agenda has not been an honest exchange of ideas or viewpoints, but rather an attempt to discredit and hopefully eliminate genuine science from this forum.

As Conservatives, I and my fellow FR scientists are all too aware of the common misperception that highly educated people are by nature, Liberals. By participating and defending our positions within these threads, it is hoped that those misperception can be dispelled.

Unfortunately we, like all other humans, sometimes let emotions get the better of us...thus, the food-fights.

604 posted on 11/02/2003 4:03:30 PM PST by Aracelis
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To: Ogmios
Not all who call themselves "Christian" are truly Christian. .Just as there are RINO's, likewise there are Christians in name only. Those who deny much of scripture are questionable Christians. -Me

Anything else you wish me to find for you?

If you did not mean Genesis, then I apologize, but the fact remains, that you have stated that those who believe like you do are in fact Christians and those that do not believe like you do are not, and I find that offensive.

Aric, why am I not surprise that you and other read more in the words than what was written.

the fact is there ARE people who call themselves Christian who are not. Do you deny this fact? And I never said that all Christains that do not believe in Gen 1 are not Christians. You just read what you wanted to read. Why am I not surprised?

605 posted on 11/02/2003 4:10:45 PM PST by HalfFull
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To: CobaltBlue
I'm not going to take the bait.

And what "bait" would that be?

606 posted on 11/02/2003 4:13:09 PM PST by HalfFull
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To: HalfFull
:)
607 posted on 11/02/2003 4:14:53 PM PST by CobaltBlue ( Virtual Ignore is my friend.)
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To: Ogmios
Works for me. :-)
608 posted on 11/02/2003 4:16:33 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Piltdown_Woman
Personally, I am not a religious person. I have little patience for religion. But I see both sides as being involved in the animosity. I see both sides as having a personal stake in the matter. Once you have a personal stake in being the "winner" it is no longer about truth but about besting the other guy.

I have lurked these threads for a long time and have seen both sides mock the other. That alone makes me not want to participate. I don't want to be mocked by evolutionists because I question the correctness of their position. I do not wish to be mocked by religious people who cannot accept that others might look for answers in other places than the scripture.

As such, these threads aren't a good place to come for honest discussion. You're going to be mocked if you don't conform to one side or the other. I've seen it.

It's just another form of tribalism. That's all. These great minds you refer to, if even they can be reduced to name calling- what's the point?

I view these threads as a form of exhibit of the uglier bits of the human condition. These discussions reek of the monkey house at your local zoo. Dominance, power displays, group dynamics. I do not see humanity being uplifted on them. I see ugliness and I see both sides being to blame.

609 posted on 11/02/2003 4:16:38 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Ogmios
Evolution...(((>>>)))blinded by f. Christian----Dipodomys Compactus
>>>>>:( dos mil---DI ME LA VERDAD.
610 posted on 11/02/2003 4:24:09 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: Prodigal Son
These great minds you refer to, if even they can be reduced to name calling- what's the point?

For the living, life is supposed to be a process of maturation, and those that don't progress and learn from mistakes are IMHO not truly "alive".

Cyberspace is no different from the real world. You've still got your turkeys, no matter how smart or well educated they may be. You've also got some really fascinating people who haven't had the benefit of higher education. The trick (and the "point"), if you're so inclined, is to excercise discrimination...throw out the bad and keep that which is worthwhile.

611 posted on 11/02/2003 4:26:59 PM PST by Aracelis
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To: Piltdown_Woman
The trick (and the "point"), if you're so inclined, is to excercise discrimination...throw out the bad and keep that which is worthwhile.

And if we did that with these threads, would we be left with anything other than a blank HTML document? I wonder.

And who gets to decide what is good and bad?

612 posted on 11/02/2003 4:30:26 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
And who gets to decide what is good and bad?

You do...as a sentient creature.

613 posted on 11/02/2003 4:31:53 PM PST by Aracelis
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To: Piltdown_Woman
Hmmm. That's what I thought. I see nothing worthwhile being accomplished here. Two factions both wanting to prove the other side wrong.

I am not impressed.

614 posted on 11/02/2003 4:34:29 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
I am not impressed.

Then excercise your powers of discrimination.

615 posted on 11/02/2003 4:36:17 PM PST by Aracelis
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To: Piltdown_Woman
I am.
616 posted on 11/02/2003 4:36:40 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: I got the rope
What, is it some sort of virus and it's catching?

Please, say it ain't so!! ;)

617 posted on 11/02/2003 4:44:45 PM PST by Ogmios (Since when is 66 senate votes for judicial confirmations constitutional?)
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To: Prodigal Son
Actually, you would be wise to note that there are plenty of other, non-biological-in-nature science posts which get a good 100 or so replies to them, which never once mention creationism.

And that's fine with me. No food-fights, no name-calling, no religious mentions whatsoever.

Believe it or not, it IS possible.
618 posted on 11/02/2003 4:53:40 PM PST by whattajoke (Neutiquam erro.)
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To: Ichneumon
He sure threw a little hissy fit though.

But he wanted confrontation, no matter what I would have said or done to tone it down, he would still have been offended and thrown a hissy fit.

Sounds like a personal problem, but he has promised not to post to me again, so anytime I see his name at the bottom of a post to me, I will assume that he made a mistake and skip it.
619 posted on 11/02/2003 5:00:41 PM PST by Ogmios (Since when is 66 senate votes for judicial confirmations constitutional?)
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To: gore3000
since all I see from you is a Clintonite type tactic of accusing someone of being politically incorrect

Interesting. I seem to recall asserting you are in denial, and f.christian is vitrolic and hypocritical. I could care less about political correctness. As for proving his posts are vitriolic, that is self-evident, even to you. You mat as well challenge me to prove the sky is blue.

As far as your being in denial: given your reasoning, it would be up to you to proove that you are not. Good luck.

620 posted on 11/02/2003 6:05:30 PM PST by Shryke
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P L A C E M A R K E R
621 posted on 11/02/2003 7:16:50 PM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
placemarker placemarker.
622 posted on 11/02/2003 7:23:53 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
Maceplarker
623 posted on 11/02/2003 7:44:19 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: CobaltBlue
Thank you so much for your post!

Indeed, Jesus taught all of those things and we ought to give them our earnest attention. Most importantly, we ought to live by the Great Commandments, because all of the Law and the Prophets hang on them - namely to love God absolutely and to love our neighbor as ourself.

Christ also said that He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets (Matthew 5:17) - thus we also ought to study the Old Testament and see how this is so - to know Him better. I believe the first verse of prophesy which points to Christ is Genesis 3:15

624 posted on 11/02/2003 7:53:44 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: VadeRetro
Yeah, that's it.... what you said...
625 posted on 11/04/2003 8:36:28 PM PST by Ogmios (Since when is 66 senate votes for judicial confirmations constitutional?)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Forgive me for such a delayed response to your post.

Let us start each idea with what you imply or believe, then show what the Bible says.

You believe that Adam was the first “ensouled” man, which leads most to believe you think there were other men before Adam who weren’t “ensouled”. Thus leaving the implied Scriptural room for the evolution from animal to man.
The Bible says regarding Adam:

1 Cor 15:47-49
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Gen 3:23
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Gen 2:8
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

For what you say to be true the Bible would need to say:
The first man that God placed a soul into was Adam. Prior to Adam God created soulless men.
Adam was other than dust prior to the fall, after the fall he became earthy in order that Jesus could become an earthy man and die on the Cross.
God did not breath life into the men prior to Adam for they were like unto animals.

You imply there was death on the earth before Adam.
The Bible says:

Rom 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

1 Cor 15:21
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Isa 11:7-8
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den.

Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

For what you say to be true the Bible would need to say:
Animals have been killing one another before Adam. The death of “ensouled” man came by Adam’s sin, but death and the shedding of animal blood by other hungry animals on earth was part of God’s original creation prior to the fall. Without sin there is death of non-ensouled creatures. The wages of sin is death, only applies to accountable “ensouled” creatures.

I haven’t seen that in there. As you well know, we need to take the clear areas of scripture to help us understand the fuzzy areas. The sacrificial shedding of the blood of an animal is significant for the covering of sin, as you know God preformed the first sacrifice to cover Adam's shame (nakedness because of sin). God needed to kill an animal, because He didn’t have any naturally dead carcasses tanning on a tree branch. Abel understood that the death of an animal was potent. For without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sin.

Take away the choice of death that Adam made and make it a natural occurance of creation seperate from sin and you remove the greatest significance of Christ’s death on the cross.
626 posted on 11/07/2003 1:28:08 AM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: bondserv; betty boop; Piltdown_Woman; Nakatu X
Thank you so much for sharing the theology involving Adam being the first mortal man!

I do understand the interpretation of Scripture which underscores this view; my brother and many in his side of the family have the same view. I consider all who hold that view to be co-equal Christians and fully expect to see all of you in heaven!

Truly, I wish you could return the favor and accept those of us who see Adam as the first ensouled man as co-equal believers.

Take away the choice of death that Adam made and make it a natural occurance of creation seperate from sin and you remove the greatest significance of Christ’s death on the cross.

For the Lurkers with regard to the ”Adam was the first ensouled man” point of view:

Christ’s death on the cross and His resurrection did not just ensure us a resurrection from mortal death. All men will be resurrected in the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20). Christ’s sacrifice saves us from the second death, the judgment – and restores us as members of God’s family.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. – John 5:28-29

Some of us who believe Adam was the first ensouled man see Genesis 1-3 describing events which happened in both heaven and earth, that Adam was created to be a spectator of the physical realm, but by his disobedience was banished to mortality to suffer physical death and then the judgment, the second death.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. - Hebrews 9:27-28

Physical death continues and will continue until Christ delivers the kingdom to God the Father and that’s when death will die.

But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. - I Corinthians 15:20-28

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. - Revelation 20:11-15

Indeed, we see Eden as Paradise – in the spiritual realm (Gen 2 and Rev 2). As with the temple and the ark of the covenant, there are earthly parallels for such spiritual things. The dust from which Adam was made may have been in the spiritual realm.

And it is true that the ”Adam was the first ensouled man” point of view leads to the conclusion that there were and are men who are not ensouled.

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. - John 10:26-28

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. – Ephesians 1:4-6

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. – Romans 8:29-30

In sum, the difference in our views is one of emphasis. On the one side, the emphasis is placed on the physical realm – the other, the spiritual realm. Those who emphasize the physical realm will embrace Young Earth Creationism or Last Thursdayism, etc. …. those who emphasize the spiritual realm may embrace those or Intelligent Design or Theist Evolution.

IMHO, the differences ought to give us a much wider reach for spreading the Word - not set us against each other.

627 posted on 11/07/2003 9:32:18 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Acts 18:24-36
24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

I like to think of you more like Apollos. You could spend more time with your brother.
628 posted on 11/07/2003 12:39:16 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: bondserv
Thank you for your reply!

Indeed, I have spent a great deal of time with my brother speaking of Christ. He does not demean my point of view, nor do I demean his - nor do either of us demean the view of other Christians.

We are both Christian, our witness is just a bit different - which is o.k. according to Scripture. Thanks for mentioning Apollos, the difference between Apollos and Paul is a good example:

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who [is] Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? - I Corinthians 3


629 posted on 11/07/2003 3:39:38 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
If your brother were witnessing the truth of the scripture using the scripture, (especially since his views need no twisting of the scripture) would you interject and contradict everything he had said, with things that flew in the face of a straightforward reading of the passages. I believe he might be offended.

I chose to try and correct you in a respectful way. Please take it as such.

I have never questioned your salvation or attempted to demean you in any way. I am surprised that you read that into my posts.

Forgive me if you misread my post, hopefully I have been able to clarify my statements.
630 posted on 11/07/2003 4:24:54 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: bondserv
Thank you for your reply!

Your posts have always been in good will and respectful. I've never taken them any other way.

In our discussion I was only hoping that we could see one another's views as differences and not errors. That is the attitude with which my brother and I discuss such things. Neither of us is ever offended, nor am I offended by your attempts to "correct" my understanding of the Word.

631 posted on 11/07/2003 9:24:27 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: bondserv; Alamo-Girl
I like to think of you more like Apollos. You could spend more time with your brother.

Perhaps if we could spend more time rejoicing our similarities, instead of fuming about our differences, we could persuade others to consider the Lord. Personally, I don't believe it matters one whit to God when or under what circumstances we believe the first ensouled man was created. That is not His point. The whole focus of the Bible is to demonstrate that ALL of us fall short, but that God desires above all else to be reunited with His creation...so much so, that He sent us Christ because none of us can ever be perfect. Perfection can and will only be attained by reunification with Him.

Until then, as I suggested before, let us rejoice in our similarities and ultimate destination.

632 posted on 11/08/2003 12:14:38 AM PST by Aracelis
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To: Piltdown_Woman
Thank you so much for your post! Very well said, Piltdown_Woman!

Let us rejoice in our similarities and ultimate destination

Amen!

633 posted on 11/08/2003 10:20:05 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Piltdown_Woman
Thank you for your input. We can all have scriptural misconceptions. I have been corrected by God and other Christians many times over the years. Praise God for the depth of His revelation, for meditating on His precepts brings deeper intimacy with our source of salvation.

That depth necessitates complexity, which in turn creates a hunger for meatier fellowship with God. It is a JOY to seek His face in the Holy Spirit inspired and preserved revelation of our Creator, as well as in prayer and meditation.

Matt 15:6-9
6...Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matt 19:4
4...Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Matt 12:3
3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungered, and they that were with him;

Matt 22:31-32
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Matt 12:16
6...Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?

Matt 12:5
5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Psalm 119:41-48
41 Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word.
42 So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.
43 And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.

44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.
47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.
48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.

God's Grace is unfathomable. He has provided a remedy for our continued failures in His Son Jesus Christ.

634 posted on 11/08/2003 5:59:11 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: Alamo-Girl
OOps,

Meant to include you in the above Post.

Peace be with you.
635 posted on 11/08/2003 6:01:10 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: bondserv; Piltdown_Woman
Thank you so very much for sharing your testimony and some supporting Scriptures for your walk with the Lord! You have inspired me to share my testimony and some supporting Scriptures for my walk, too! So here goes:

I have been walking with the Lord for better than 43 years now. When I was young in the Lord, I was deeply concerned with studying the Bible exhaustively and making sure that I understood all the details to the best of my mortal ability. I spent many hours with different translations, lexicons, encyclopedias, ancient texts, maps and such. I prayed and I meditated at length.

The following passage always seemed impossible, but as time passed I came to understand it:

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. – Matthew 5:48

He was telling me to be perfect, not to think, say or do perfect things. Suddenly, all of the admonitions in Romans 1-8 became very clear. No one can live up to the Scriptures (the Law) – if they could, then Christ died for nothing. However, if I wanted to keep trying to do it, He would let me and I would fail, be frustrated and out of fellowship with Him. The solution was clear. The only way to be perfect is to abide in Him:

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. – John 15:4

Freedom was so simple and it was there all along. All I had to do was surrender unconditionally to Christ – pour contempt on my ego, pride and vanity. The result was instantaneous; I was overwhelmed with His love and have become an altogether new person. It is exhilarating to love Him absolutely and my fellow man, unconditionally.

I should have seen it from the beginning. In Hebrews 1:3 we read the Christ is the “express image” of the Father. Christ is so fully surrendered to the Father that I cannot tell where He ends and the Father begins! And it was there all along in Christ’s prayer for us:

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. – John 17:20-23

And there was a bonus. Because while my eyes read the Bible as always, now the Spirit within me reads the Word. The Word is alive, the Scriptures are alive, the Spirit is alive. In this way, He reveals Himself continually to me and guides me to Scriptures according to His will and my need from moment to moment.

Thus, although I truly am interested and care what others may think - no man’s interpretation of the Bible carries weight with me. Paul had the same attitude for the same reason:

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. - Galatians 1:10-12

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. - Galatians 2:20-21

There is such glorious liberty in being fully surrendered to Christ, I would never change a thing.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord. - II Corinthians 3:17-18

I pray for God’s abundant blessings and peace for both of you!

636 posted on 11/08/2003 9:26:58 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: bondserv; Alamo-Girl
And after all the testimony I think

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
637 posted on 11/09/2003 12:29:16 PM PST by Markofhumanfeet
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To: Markofhumanfeet
Indeed! Thank you for your post!
638 posted on 11/09/2003 1:38:24 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Dales
Self bump
639 posted on 04/12/2004 12:48:40 PM PDT by Stone Mountain
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