Skip to comments.Scientists find evolution of life
Posted on 10/30/2003 5:04:39 PM PST by Dales
LIVERMORE, Calif. -- A trio of scientists including a researcher from the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory has found that humans may owe the relatively mild climate in which their ancestors evolved to tiny marine organisms with shells and skeletons made out of calcium carbonate.
In a paper titled "Carbonate Deposition, Climate Stability and Neoproterozoic Ice Ages" in the Oct. 31 edition of Science, UC Riverside researchers Andy Ridgwell and Martin Kennedy along with LLNL climate scientist Ken Caldeira, discovered that the increased stability in modern climate may be due in part to the evolution of marine plankton living in the open ocean with shells and skeletal material made out of calcium carbonate. They conclude that these marine organisms helped prevent the ice ages of the past few hundred thousand years from turning into a severe global deep freeze.
"The most recent ice ages were mild enough to allow and possibly even promote the evolution of modern humans," Caldeira said. "Without these tiny marine organisms, the ice sheets may have grown to cover the earth, like in the snowball glaciations of the ancient past, and our ancestors might not have survived."
The researchers used a computer model describing the ocean, atmosphere and land surface to look at how atmospheric carbon dioxide would change as a result of glacier growth. They found that, in the distant past, as glaciers started to grow, the oceans would suck the greenhouse gas -- carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere -- making the Earth colder, promoting an even deeper ice age. When marine plankton with carbonate shells and skeletons are added to the model, ocean chemistry is buffered and glacial growth does not cause the ocean to absorb large amounts of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
But in Precambrian times (which lasted up until 544 million years ago), marine organisms in the open ocean did not produce carbonate skeletons -- and ancient rocks from the end of the Precambrian geological age indicate that huge glaciers deposited layers of crushed rock debris thousands of meters thick near the equator. If the land was frozen near the equator, then most of the surface of the planet was likely covered in ice, making Earth look like a giant snowball, the researchers said.
Around 200 million years ago, calcium carbonate organisms became critical to helping prevent the earth from freezing over. When the organisms die, their carbonate shells and skeletons settle to the ocean floor, where some dissolve and some are buried in sediments. These deposits help regulate the chemistry of the ocean and the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. However, in a related study published in Nature on Sept. 25, 2003, Caldeira and LLNL physicist Michael Wickett found that unrestrained release of fossil-fuel carbon dioxide to the atmosphere could threaten extinction for these climate-stabilizing marine organisms.
Ok, so you're not asking, but I will give you my perspective anyway.
I initially found these science threads very interesting. I had access as a freeper to many very fine and well-educated minds, and I enjoyed the exchange of information. As time has progressed, however, these threads have been taken over by unnamed individuals with an agenda. The agenda has not been an honest exchange of ideas or viewpoints, but rather an attempt to discredit and hopefully eliminate genuine science from this forum.
As Conservatives, I and my fellow FR scientists are all too aware of the common misperception that highly educated people are by nature, Liberals. By participating and defending our positions within these threads, it is hoped that those misperception can be dispelled.
Unfortunately we, like all other humans, sometimes let emotions get the better of us...thus, the food-fights.
Anything else you wish me to find for you?
If you did not mean Genesis, then I apologize, but the fact remains, that you have stated that those who believe like you do are in fact Christians and those that do not believe like you do are not, and I find that offensive.
Aric, why am I not surprise that you and other read more in the words than what was written.
the fact is there ARE people who call themselves Christian who are not. Do you deny this fact? And I never said that all Christains that do not believe in Gen 1 are not Christians. You just read what you wanted to read. Why am I not surprised?
And what "bait" would that be?
I have lurked these threads for a long time and have seen both sides mock the other. That alone makes me not want to participate. I don't want to be mocked by evolutionists because I question the correctness of their position. I do not wish to be mocked by religious people who cannot accept that others might look for answers in other places than the scripture.
As such, these threads aren't a good place to come for honest discussion. You're going to be mocked if you don't conform to one side or the other. I've seen it.
It's just another form of tribalism. That's all. These great minds you refer to, if even they can be reduced to name calling- what's the point?
I view these threads as a form of exhibit of the uglier bits of the human condition. These discussions reek of the monkey house at your local zoo. Dominance, power displays, group dynamics. I do not see humanity being uplifted on them. I see ugliness and I see both sides being to blame.
For the living, life is supposed to be a process of maturation, and those that don't progress and learn from mistakes are IMHO not truly "alive".
Cyberspace is no different from the real world. You've still got your turkeys, no matter how smart or well educated they may be. You've also got some really fascinating people who haven't had the benefit of higher education. The trick (and the "point"), if you're so inclined, is to excercise discrimination...throw out the bad and keep that which is worthwhile.
And if we did that with these threads, would we be left with anything other than a blank HTML document? I wonder.
And who gets to decide what is good and bad?
You do...as a sentient creature.
I am not impressed.
Then excercise your powers of discrimination.
Interesting. I seem to recall asserting you are in denial, and f.christian is vitrolic and hypocritical. I could care less about political correctness. As for proving his posts are vitriolic, that is self-evident, even to you. You mat as well challenge me to prove the sky is blue.
As far as your being in denial: given your reasoning, it would be up to you to proove that you are not. Good luck.
Indeed, Jesus taught all of those things and we ought to give them our earnest attention. Most importantly, we ought to live by the Great Commandments, because all of the Law and the Prophets hang on them - namely to love God absolutely and to love our neighbor as ourself.
Christ also said that He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets (Matthew 5:17) - thus we also ought to study the Old Testament and see how this is so - to know Him better. I believe the first verse of prophesy which points to Christ is Genesis 3:15
I do understand the interpretation of Scripture which underscores this view; my brother and many in his side of the family have the same view. I consider all who hold that view to be co-equal Christians and fully expect to see all of you in heaven!
Truly, I wish you could return the favor and accept those of us who see Adam as the first ensouled man as co-equal believers.
Christs death on the cross and His resurrection did not just ensure us a resurrection from mortal death. All men will be resurrected in the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20). Christs sacrifice saves us from the second death, the judgment and restores us as members of Gods family.
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. - I Corinthians 15:20-28
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. - Revelation 20:11-15
And it is true that the Adam was the first ensouled man point of view leads to the conclusion that there were and are men who are not ensouled.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Ephesians 1:4-6
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Romans 8:29-30
IMHO, the differences ought to give us a much wider reach for spreading the Word - not set us against each other.
Indeed, I have spent a great deal of time with my brother speaking of Christ. He does not demean my point of view, nor do I demean his - nor do either of us demean the view of other Christians.
We are both Christian, our witness is just a bit different - which is o.k. according to Scripture. Thanks for mentioning Apollos, the difference between Apollos and Paul is a good example:
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who [is] Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? - I Corinthians 3
Your posts have always been in good will and respectful. I've never taken them any other way.
In our discussion I was only hoping that we could see one another's views as differences and not errors. That is the attitude with which my brother and I discuss such things. Neither of us is ever offended, nor am I offended by your attempts to "correct" my understanding of the Word.
Perhaps if we could spend more time rejoicing our similarities, instead of fuming about our differences, we could persuade others to consider the Lord. Personally, I don't believe it matters one whit to God when or under what circumstances we believe the first ensouled man was created. That is not His point. The whole focus of the Bible is to demonstrate that ALL of us fall short, but that God desires above all else to be reunited with His creation...so much so, that He sent us Christ because none of us can ever be perfect. Perfection can and will only be attained by reunification with Him.
Until then, as I suggested before, let us rejoice in our similarities and ultimate destination.
That depth necessitates complexity, which in turn creates a hunger for meatier fellowship with God. It is a JOY to seek His face in the Holy Spirit inspired and preserved revelation of our Creator, as well as in prayer and meditation.
6...Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
4...Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungered, and they that were with him;
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
6...Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
41 Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word.
42 So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.
43 And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.
44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.
47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.
48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.
God's Grace is unfathomable. He has provided a remedy for our continued failures in His Son Jesus Christ.
I have been walking with the Lord for better than 43 years now. When I was young in the Lord, I was deeply concerned with studying the Bible exhaustively and making sure that I understood all the details to the best of my mortal ability. I spent many hours with different translations, lexicons, encyclopedias, ancient texts, maps and such. I prayed and I meditated at length.
The following passage always seemed impossible, but as time passed I came to understand it:
I should have seen it from the beginning. In Hebrews 1:3 we read the Christ is the express image of the Father. Christ is so fully surrendered to the Father that I cannot tell where He ends and the Father begins! And it was there all along in Christs prayer for us:
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. John 17:20-23
Thus, although I truly am interested and care what others may think - no mans interpretation of the Bible carries weight with me. Paul had the same attitude for the same reason:
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. - Galatians 2:20-21
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