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HISTORIANS DENY THE PAST (Venona files prove McCarthy, Nixon right about Soviet spies)
NY POST ^ | October 26, 2003 | ERIC FETTEMANN

Posted on 10/31/2003 3:03:28 AM PST by Liz

Edited on 05/26/2004 5:17:16 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

In 1992, Russia's first post-Communist leader, Boris Yeltsin, made a historic decision to open the nation's archives to Western scholars and historians. Yeltsin was anxious to expose the misdeeds of past Soviet leaders, and his decision opened the floodgates on evidence that proved profoundly discomfiting to apologists for the Communist system.


(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: haynes; klehr; mcarthy; mccarthy; venona
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1 posted on 10/31/2003 3:03:29 AM PST by Liz
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To: Liz
More evidence supporting Mona Charen's excellent book Useful Idiots.
2 posted on 10/31/2003 3:06:15 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: nopardons; I_Love_My_Husband
FYI
3 posted on 10/31/2003 3:09:51 AM PST by MEG33
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
FYI
4 posted on 10/31/2003 3:11:06 AM PST by MEG33
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To: Liz
And 3000, or 30 nillion dead on Anerican soil will not deter the pigs. Puke
5 posted on 10/31/2003 3:12:21 AM PST by Waco
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To: Liz
That is no surprise. Why would liberal sleazes ever be willing to admit they were wrong? This is part of what qualifies a person to be a liberal sleaze. It is kind of like claiming a fart in church. The smell is still there and nobody will claim it.
6 posted on 10/31/2003 3:13:12 AM PST by U S Army EOD (Nuke the gay,black, feminist, whales for Jesus)
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To: Liz
not all historians have approached the material with an open mind.

I'm shocked! Truly shocked.

The opponents of real academic freedom, especially in history, have been trying to recreate reality for so many years, they certainly will not sit by and watch all their work crumble without at least a wimper.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."
7 posted on 10/31/2003 3:29:15 AM PST by aardvark1
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To: Liz; AnnaZ
bump
8 posted on 10/31/2003 3:41:22 AM PST by The_Eaglet
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To: Peach
Mona Charen will be on C-SPAN's Washington Journal for an hour, Live, at 0900am Eastern.

http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/fullschedule.csp

Right after some Talk Show Host by the name of Ed Schultz.

9 posted on 10/31/2003 4:01:02 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: leadpenny
Thanks for the heads up; she's terrific and I loved her book Useful Idiots. A must read for all.
10 posted on 10/31/2003 4:04:31 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Liz
Half the Venona spies have not been IDed. I'd love to know the rest of the scum.
11 posted on 10/31/2003 4:46:46 AM PST by Leisler
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To: Peach
>>More evidence supporting Mona Charen's excellent book Useful Idiots.

Not to mention Ann Coulter's Treason.

12 posted on 10/31/2003 4:52:03 AM PST by FreedomPoster (this space intentionally blank)
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To: FreedomPoster; basil; Gracey; DrewsDad; TheSarce
PING
13 posted on 10/31/2003 4:58:07 AM PST by jobshopper
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To: FreedomPoster; Peach
Actually, this book (and the authors' other works) are infinitely more important in the long run than either Charon's or Ann Coulter's works. Theirs are popular works which are not (despite Ann's footnotes) particularly carefully argued or adequately sourced for their main assertions. Ann is great, and she's usually right, but she does play a little fast and loose with the record.

These guys are academic historians who have examined the primary source documents, and have laid out their findings carefully. Over time, their work will have great impact on the rising generation of scholars now undergraduates or in the early stages of grad school, which is probably a little less left wing than the current faculty anyway. In 20 years, it will be as hard to find someone arguing the Rosenbergs were innocent, or that the Communists weren't soviet dupes and spies, as it is now to find a supporter of the Dunning (exceptionally hostile) view of Reconstruction, or someone who doesn't accept (at least in part) Fritz Fischer's Germany's Aims in the First World War.

14 posted on 10/31/2003 5:31:44 AM PST by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo [Gallia][Germania][Arabia] Esse Delendam --- Select One or More as needed)
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To: CatoRenasci
I pray you are correct
15 posted on 10/31/2003 6:18:55 AM PST by razorback-bert
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To: jobshopper
The Communist Party is alive and well in this country actively organizing protests(ANSWER) and blasting our President and his cabinet in media attacks(moveon.org).
16 posted on 10/31/2003 6:40:57 AM PST by DrewsDad
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To: DrewsDad
Absolutely they are behind ANSWER and Moveon.Beware of the word Progressive,too.It usually means socialism or communism disguised.
17 posted on 10/31/2003 7:00:36 AM PST by MEG33
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To: CatoRenasci
Agreed, to a point. Both are important in the long run. We'd never get the popular impact of the information in this book, without Ann and Mona's efforts at putting that information in a format that will reach a mass audience. With that popular impact, we reduce the chances of the history being effectively re-written via Big Lie techniques, and this book being ignored/marginalized.
18 posted on 10/31/2003 7:01:29 AM PST by FreedomPoster (this space intentionally blank)
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To: FreedomPoster
Your point is fair enough, and well-taken: we need the eyes of the general educated citizen on the academy. My point, however, was more that popularizers like Ann and Mona will never be taken seriously by scholars, and the lasting impact on future scholarship can only come from scholarly exposes such as these by Haynes and Klehr.
19 posted on 10/31/2003 7:11:32 AM PST by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo [Gallia][Germania][Arabia] Esse Delendam --- Select One or More as needed)
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To: U S Army EOD
I once tried to think like a liberal but I couldn't get my head that far up my posterior.
20 posted on 10/31/2003 7:17:00 AM PST by Liz
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To: CatoRenasci
Nice deconstruction.

BTW, Ann Coulter is a social critic, and a good one.

21 posted on 10/31/2003 7:19:04 AM PST by Liz
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To: Ff--150; Brian S; shaggy eel; Donna Lee Nardo; LiteKeeper; agrace; ErinsDaddy; Black Agnes; ...
In 1992, Russia's first post-Communist leader, Boris Yeltsin, made a historic decision to open the nation's archives to Western scholars and historians. Yeltsin was anxious to expose the misdeeds of past Soviet leaders, and his decision opened the floodgates on evidence that proved profoundly discomfiting to apologists for the Communist system. Together with the Venona documents - 3,000 intercepted and decoded cables between Moscow and the Soviet officials in the Unied States regarding espionage - which were declassified in 1997, the new material caused a veritable upheaval in historic research.

For your reading delectation.

22 posted on 10/31/2003 7:22:16 AM PST by Liz
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To: Liz
Makes no differwence to the "true-believer" idiots..they're still out trying to prove that the Rosenbergs were innocent...have you seen all the press the sons have been getting lately, with their new book..
23 posted on 10/31/2003 7:27:21 AM PST by ken5050
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To: DrewsDad
I recall a class taught by an Air Force General from the published minutes of the last (or one of the last) openly held Comminterns (Communist Party International meetings.

The listed declared intentions and goals of their party included most of what I have seen accomplished since but seemed impossible to us in the l960's including racial division, church and seminary infiltration, capturing the highest influential positions in media, education and government, etc.
24 posted on 10/31/2003 7:40:14 AM PST by Spirited
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To: Peach
And this substantiates Ann Coulter's claims in her new book Treason!!!

GO ANN

25 posted on 10/31/2003 7:40:23 AM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: FreedomPoster
Both are important in the long run. We'd never get the popular impact of the information in this book, without Ann and Mona's efforts at putting that information in a format that will reach a mass audience.

Could not agree with you MORE! Too often, the academics are never heard because they write at a level, and in arenas, far beyond the average "voter." Ann and Mona's works are important because they initiate the population to otherwise esoteric areas of interest.

26 posted on 10/31/2003 7:43:51 AM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: Liz
BUMP
27 posted on 10/31/2003 7:47:43 AM PST by Dante3
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To: Liz
Thanks.

I think your characterization of Ann as a social critic is fair and helpful. And, I agree she is good at it. As much as I enjoy her as an appetizer, my preference is for more scholarly main courses, but de gustibus non disputandam.

28 posted on 10/31/2003 7:47:46 AM PST by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo [Gallia][Germania][Arabia] Esse Delendam --- Select One or More as needed)
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To: Liz
I don't know much about this Haynes fellow but I did catch part of his book tour on C-Span 2. He sort of came off as half a loon.

As far as historians being wrong on communism; well, what a shocker! I suspect many of them reside in condo and the commie planned communities (Maybe even this Haynes fellow. Who knows? Commies are everywhere!).

BTW: I'll be painting my house fusia next spring...just because I can.

Live free or die!

J
29 posted on 10/31/2003 8:12:45 AM PST by J. L. Chamberlain
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To: Liz
bump
30 posted on 10/31/2003 8:14:22 AM PST by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: Liz
Ann Coulter justified!!!!
31 posted on 10/31/2003 8:17:05 AM PST by ZULU
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To: CatoRenasci
I read a book written by these two men about the Venona project recently, but would never have tried to find it if Ann hadn't mentioned their work in her book.

You are correct in the impact on future scholars. My son is in grad school in history, starting to teach history so I am trying to funnel some of this stuff to him as fast as possible. Hoping it will have an impact on his future scholarship. He is researching a different historical field, but I've been talking to him about the importance of the Soviet archives as source documents and the Venona Project as source documents. Always better to go to the source than it is to read someone else interpreting the source.
32 posted on 10/31/2003 8:20:10 AM PST by hoosierpearl (One nation under God.)
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To: CatoRenasci
Yeah, right....to each his own.
33 posted on 10/31/2003 8:29:59 AM PST by Liz
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To: ken5050; Registered; Grampa Dave; Libloather; Flurry; BOBTHENAILER; martin_fierro; MEG33; Waco; ...
....."true-believer" idiots..still out trying to prove that the Rosenbergs were innocent...have you seen all the press the sons have been getting lately, with their new book.. ...

Not another (gag) book. Talk about being professional "victims."

E.L. Doctorow wrote the novel, the "Book of Daniel," about these two. The inevitable movie starring Ed Asner and Ellen Barkin was universally panned.

Hollywarped loves these "resurrection cases.

I see the latest travesty made into another movie, a TV series, and serialization in the New Yorker. Maybe the movie theme will even go platinum. (Snicker).

34 posted on 10/31/2003 8:47:41 AM PST by Liz
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To: Liz; risk; Travis McGee; MJY1288; ConservativeLawyer
Thanks for the ping.

The commies in the left wing maggot infested Rat party now call themselves progressives or Enviralists. One of their old commy leaders, Gorby, lives in a mansion in the Presido planning how his Watermelon Enviralists can win the next cold war that he lost as the last official commy leader of the USSR thanks to Ronald Reagan.

They have joined with the Opecker Princes/Thugs, Islamonazis, Islamofacists and Islamokazis in fighting our country and GW in our WOT.
35 posted on 10/31/2003 9:23:20 AM PST by Grampa Dave ("If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less.")
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To: Liz
But, as they note in this work, not all historians have approached the material with an open mind. In fact, they write, "We were most taken aback by the vehemence of the reaction among a large segment of academics who resisted considering new evidence."

Actualy, a large segment of academics/liberals resist considering ANY evidence.

36 posted on 10/31/2003 9:24:05 AM PST by 4CJ (Come along chihuahua, I want to hear you say yo quiero taco bell. - Nolu Chan, 28 Jul 2003)
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To: Grampa Dave
Next summer I think America is going to burn, as a loose unorganized alliance of America haters take to the forests with matches and gasoline.

They will include self-appointed jihadists, communist "class warriors" burning out "the rich", and eco-nuts of the Paul Watson ilk who believe that the "carrying capacity" (population) of America has to be drastically reduced. All of them are insane, all of them hate America and want to destroy it.

37 posted on 10/31/2003 9:45:45 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
I hope that you are wrong, but it would not surprise me as 2004 is an election year. All of the commies, Islamokazis, and Watermelons will do anything to defeat him.
38 posted on 10/31/2003 9:50:12 AM PST by Grampa Dave ("If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less.")
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To: Grampa Dave
What a motley "axis of domestic evil!" But dangerous none-the-less. And the watermelons in govt who have put our forests in peril are equally as guilty as the ones who strike the matches.

I think they knew what they were doing, and if they didn't, they should have. They were certainly warned in explicit terms where their "don't touch nature" laws would take us.

(Said by Matt in San Diego.)

39 posted on 10/31/2003 9:56:36 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
The watermelon senators and congressits, who have enabled the Watermelon Enviralists to have dangerous powers over the nation and us are more guilty.

They are abettors and willing abettors.

The list of the rat senators who voted no on the Safe/healthy Forest Bill is a list of true evil in America.

If they just disappeared, America, Americans and the world would be far better off.
40 posted on 10/31/2003 11:32:33 AM PST by Grampa Dave ("If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less.")
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To: Liz
How is it possible to think and be a liberal at the same time??
41 posted on 10/31/2003 4:58:41 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Nuke the gay,black, feminist, whales for Jesus)
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To: Liz
Thanks for the ping.
42 posted on 10/31/2003 5:24:52 PM PST by Joseph_CutlerUSA ("It is generally inadvisable to eject directly over the area you just bombed. " -USAF Manual)
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To: Liz
Thanks Liz! It must be frustrating to be a Liberal in the 21st Century. They were so successful at re-writing and "spinning" political interpretations to their whims in the latter portion of the 20th (like silly putty on crack).

This new-fangled Internet "thingie" and those dadgum independent thinkers keep screwing it up!

43 posted on 10/31/2003 8:52:54 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: U S Army EOD
The wily know-nothing liberal scum are adept at getting into positions of power -- they use the buddy system to help one another. Their power perches are in media, academia, govenerment so that they can control the debate.
44 posted on 11/01/2003 2:11:40 AM PST by Liz
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To: SkyPilot
It must be frustrating to be a Liberal in the 21st Century......

And I intend to make it practically impossible. LOL.

45 posted on 11/01/2003 2:14:50 AM PST by Liz
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To: Liz
Basically the key ingrediants to being a successful liberal are slightly above the average IQ, ruthless ambition, and above all, absolutely no consense. With those attributes, you can be president twice or have a husband who was president twice and be a senator.
46 posted on 11/01/2003 5:02:38 AM PST by U S Army EOD (Nuke the gay,black, feminist, whales for Jesus)
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To: U S Army EOD
The Liberal Credo
In the name of the Clintons, Hollywarped, the ACLU and all that is unholy, we believe that:

1. Capitalism creates oppression; government creates opportunity.

2. Traditional gender roles are artificial but feminism, homosexuality, and metrosexuality are government-protected lifestyles.

3. Self-esteem is paramount; government must undertake to guarantee each citizen-victim self-esteem with as many billion dollar programs as it takes.

4. The ACLU is good, because destroying religion and silencing believers are protected by the Constitution and the First Amendment; The NRA is bad because it defends the Constitution;

5. Standardized IQ tests are racist; racial quotas and affirmative action are not.

6. Conservatives are racists; everybody knows that black people can't make it on their own without big-buck government assistance programs and Hollyweirdos to to proselytize the message 24/7.

7. Normal sex is perverted. Threesomes, bestiality, necrophilia, homosexuality are just new ways to get a thrill and abortion at all stages of conception with the government picking up the tab is our consitutional right to rid ourselves of an inconvenient pregnancy.

8. Moral indignation is the standard strategy for endowing our output with superiority.

9. Victimization is the basic belief by which we blame and find others responsible for our own personal failures, then expect taxpayers, deep pocketed individuals, or the courts to bail us out. It feels good to be in the throes of "victimization" and either A) causing victims, B) concocting victims, C) playing victim, D) commiserating over victims, or E) creating another class of victims to bleed over.

10. It's our duty to treat people in the manner of raising mushrooms, that is to say, keep them in the dark and feed them lots of horse manure.

47 posted on 11/01/2003 5:42:28 AM PST by Liz
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To: U S Army EOD; Grampa Dave; Libloather; SierraWasp
......key ingredients to being a successful liberal are (1) slightly above-average IQ, (2) ruthless ambition, and above all, (3) absolutely no conscience. With those attributes, you can be president twice or have a husband who was president twice and be a senator.......

Love, love, love it. Says it all so precisely and succinctly. #2 is my fave.
Libs have proved to be rank opportunists who will do or say anything to achieve their goals.

We might have to add (4) the necessity of abysmally stupid people (who vote for and put
liberals in power -- without morons to vote for them, who would liberals have to sucker?).

48 posted on 11/01/2003 5:51:13 AM PST by Liz
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To: Liz
I remember reading a really good book many yrs. ago. "The Implosion Conspiracy".

It deals with the Rosenberg, Greenglass case.

Don't know if it's still available.

49 posted on 11/01/2003 6:16:29 AM PST by Vinnie
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To: Liz
No doubt a lot of 4's have to be there.
50 posted on 11/01/2003 8:33:48 AM PST by U S Army EOD (Nuke the gay,black, feminist, whales for Jesus)
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