Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Real Sucking Sound
Vanity | 10/31/2003 | Self

Posted on 10/31/2003 10:52:30 AM PST by pgyanke

This is a research request based on a thought inspired by another thread today.

When we look at a map of conservatism vs liberalism in America today (typified by the 2000 election), we see the bulk of the nation represented as conservative with a minority area mainly congregated in urban areas. We also know that these urban areas are well known for their social progressiveness.

It would be fascinating to see a comparison of the producers vs the consumers. Would the map match exactly? This comparison could be made using tax inflow to the Treasury vs pork outflow.

In order to give, someone must have and in order to have, someone must produce. So, in net flow terms, who in America is producing and who is taking?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: economy; socialism; suckingsound; welfare
This could also be interesting at the state level...
1 posted on 10/31/2003 10:52:30 AM PST by pgyanke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: pgyanke
People in New Jersey and Connecticut have the highest per capita incomes, so it stands to reason that the IRS breaks out the biggest shop vac for them.
2 posted on 10/31/2003 10:57:10 AM PST by Jim Cane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pgyanke
The beneficiaries of federal financing

During fiscal 1999, taxpayers in New Mexico benefited the most from the give and take with Uncle Sam. New Mexico residents received $1.97 in federal outlays for every $1.00 they paid in federal taxes. In effect, federal benefits almost doubled the state's tax payment. Other states with high federal spending-to-tax ratios include Montana ($1.73), West Virginia ($1.72), Mississippi ($1.69), and North Dakota ($1.65). Though not comparable as a state, the District of Columbia is by far the biggest winner: in 1999 it received $6.71 in federal outlays for every dollar its taxpayers sent to the U.S. Treasury.

States where taxes exceed spending

The states benefiting the most are those where so much is collected in federal taxes that the federal dollars they receive are overwhelmed. With a high FY 1999 federal tax burden per capita and a lower than average amount of incoming federal funds, Connecticut has the lowest federal spending-to-tax ratio (0.65) and is therefore the nation's biggest net donor to federal fiscal operations. The 0.65 ratio means that Connecticut receives 65¢ in federal spending for every dollar its taxpayers send to Washington. Other states that had low federal spending-to-tax ratios in FY99 are New Jersey (65¢), New Hampshire (69¢), Nevada (73¢), Illinois (73¢) and Minnesota (79¢).

http://www.taxpayfedil.org/fedspend.htm

http://www.taxpayfedil.org/images/fedspend.gif

3 posted on 10/31/2003 10:59:55 AM PST by CO_dreamer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jim Cane
Good point. Still would be interesting to see the net after accounting for welfare programs, et al.
4 posted on 10/31/2003 11:04:49 AM PST by pgyanke ("The Son of God became a man to enable men to become sons of God" - C.S. Lewis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: CO_dreamer
Connecticut has the lowest federal spending-to-tax ratio (0.65) and is therefore the nation's biggest net donor to federal fiscal operations.

All y'all bums in the other states need to get a job. I'm tired of pulling your weight.

5 posted on 10/31/2003 11:07:07 AM PST by Jim Cane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: CO_dreamer
Thanks for the info!
6 posted on 10/31/2003 11:14:02 AM PST by pgyanke ("The Son of God became a man to enable men to become sons of God" - C.S. Lewis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Jim Cane
Well, keep in mind that this map is from 1999. From what I understand, since 2000 federal spending to red states has increased significantly.
7 posted on 10/31/2003 11:14:31 AM PST by CO_dreamer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: pgyanke
It's exactly the opposite. The south and the midwest suck up the money, largely from the north east.
8 posted on 10/31/2003 11:16:59 AM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CO_dreamer
Plus, I think New Jersey has eclipsed CT for top earnings. (Weiker and Rowland, but mostly Blumenthal have chased businesses and industry right out of what was once the
publishing, insurance and manufacturing center of the known universe.)
9 posted on 10/31/2003 11:17:25 AM PST by Jim Cane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: pgyanke
From looking at the chart, it looks like it works backwards from what you'd think it would. The urban states are getting screwed.

Why is that?

My guess is that there is a great deal of fedgov spending on large projects like dams, military bases, etc.

And do those charts take into account money going to Social Security and military retirements? Those folks don't live in urban areas (too expensive).

It'd be more interesting if you could build a chart of income taxes (only a small part of fedgov income) vs. social welfare programs.

10 posted on 10/31/2003 11:20:53 AM PST by narby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pgyanke
Here in New York, the rich vote tend to vote for the Dems because of a need to be socially "progressive." Then again, the RINOs here don't represent much of an alternative. Pataki would make a fine Democrat down in Florida...
11 posted on 10/31/2003 11:54:22 AM PST by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pgyanke; dead
Problem we have here in the northeast is that the female majority vote OVERWHELMINGLY Democratic, while men split their votes. The South and West usually have substantial numbers of female Republican voters. The gender gap KILLS us up here.
12 posted on 10/31/2003 11:55:58 AM PST by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pgyanke
What? 13 posts and no Monica reference yet. Maybe it's true, Free Republic is slipping.
13 posted on 10/31/2003 11:58:44 AM PST by Hillary's Folly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hillary's Folly
What? 13 posts and no Monica reference yet.

Correction: 13 posts was all it took.

14 posted on 10/31/2003 12:55:02 PM PST by pgyanke ("The Son of God became a man to enable men to become sons of God" - C.S. Lewis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: dead
Apparently so. Interesting...
15 posted on 10/31/2003 12:57:50 PM PST by pgyanke ("The Son of God became a man to enable men to become sons of God" - C.S. Lewis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: pgyanke


16 posted on 10/31/2003 1:09:14 PM PST by AdamSelene235 (I always shoot for the moon......sometimes I hit London.- Von Braun)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: pgyanke
This is best illustrated at the individual level, not the state or region. The people who earn and produce the most pay a disproportionately larger amount of taxes than the people who earn the least. The people who earn and produce the most recieve the least from the government, while the people who earn the least recieve the most. Location has very little to do with what individual earns what and what individual recieves what. The entrepreneurial folks who make this country work go where there is a niche to fill, so they are all spread out. The abundant parasites who produce nothing are already scattered about the country and they suck from the nipple of whomever they happen to be existing amongst.
17 posted on 10/31/2003 1:09:45 PM PST by Voice in your head ("The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." - Thucydides)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AdamSelene235
Based on your map, 18 states are subsidizing the rest.

Random Thoughts on Taxation.

18 posted on 10/31/2003 1:16:44 PM PST by PsyOp ( Citizenship ought to be reserved for those who carry arms. - Aristotle.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: PsyOp
Based on voting patterns, most of those are happy to do it.
19 posted on 10/31/2003 4:51:34 PM PST by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: AdamSelene235
I studied your maps. I noticed that DC gives over $6 in taxes for every $1 taken. I find that hard to believe considering the place is basically a welfare state run by the Fed government.

I think the flaw in the numbers is that it doesn't take into account government salaries. Since there are so many in DC on the taxpayer dole (and many sizeably), they are paying taxes at a proportionate rate. The flaw is that their salaries are our dollars at work too!

Just a thought. Thanks for your input!
20 posted on 11/04/2003 11:52:25 AM PST by pgyanke ("The Son of God became a man to enable men to become sons of God" - C.S. Lewis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: pgyanke
I studied your maps. I noticed that DC gives over $6 in taxes for every $1 taken.

You have it backwards. DC gets 6 for every 1 it gives.

21 posted on 11/04/2003 1:37:07 PM PST by AdamSelene235 (I always shoot for the moon......sometimes I hit London.- Von Braun)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: AdamSelene235
Ahhhhh... makes better sense now. Thanks again.
22 posted on 11/05/2003 6:00:15 AM PST by pgyanke ("The Son of God became a man to enable men to become sons of God" - C.S. Lewis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson