CA: Instant immigrant job check in danger

OC Register ^ | 11/1/03 | Dena Bunis

[NormsRevenge]

WASHINGTON – A federal test program that allows employers to instantaneously determine if a new hire has a legal right to work in the United States is in jeopardy of being shut down as Congress debates whether to make the service available nationwide.

[NormsRevenge]

How SAVE works

SAVE, the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements program, allows employers in California, Texas, Illinois, Florida, Nebraska and New York to voluntarily enroll and check new employee's Social Security numbers and immigration status against federal databases. Here's how it works:

Employer inputs employee name, Social Security number, date of birth, hire date, status in the United States and type of identification documents presented into a computer program.

Information is matched electronically against information in the Social Security Administration or Department of Homeland Security immigration databases.

Possible outcomes:

1. The system confirms the information and the employee is authorized to work.

2. The information does not match, and that results in a "tentative non-confirmation." Employer notifies the employee, who can contest it either with the Social Security Administration or immigration officials. The employee has eight working days to correct the record and establish work eligibility.

If an employee is referred to immigration officials, they'll be given a toll-free number and talk to an immigration status verifier, who will try to resolve the case. Then an answer will be sent electronically to the employer within one day.

If an employee is referred to the Social Security Administration, he must go to a local Social Security office. Within 24 hours of the employee going to the local office, the employer must resubmit the case to get a final determination.

[The Old Hoosier]

Democrats see value in the program but say Republicans tried to ram the extension through this past week without enough debate.

Classic stalling tactic. "We need more debate." They do this on every issue. If it were up to them, we'd be debating until doomsday.

[Amerigomag]

I suspect that over 95% of the employers in California aren't even aware of the system. Of that 95% an equally large amount probably wouldn't use the system without some incentive.

[Oatka]

I suspect that over 95% of the employers in California aren't even aware of the system.

On another thread on this, some businessman from Texas said he never heard of it and opined it was geared towards the larger companies, when in fact most of the illegal hiring is done by the smaller operations.

Of that 95% an equally large amount probably wouldn't use the system without some incentive.

Yeah, they would look on it as added bookkeeping overhead. However, if the syetem was available and the company didn't use it, a stiff fine per illegal might be the proper motivator.

[XHogPilot]

Illegal Immigrant Ping

[XHogPilot]

Bump to the Top

[Southack]

Thanks, but I already get WAY too many pings...

[Allegra]

Classic stalling tactic. "We need more debate." They do this on every issue. If it were up to them, we'd be debating until doomsday.

You're right. What's to debate? This seems like a pretty cut and dried issue if you look at it logically (which Dims don't.)

Again, they fail the grasp the simple concept of the word "illegal."

[Scenic Sounds]

A workable program will be absolutely essential to even begin to deal with illegal immigration.

[cyborg]

thanks for the ping... and the problem with this system is what??? It's only a problem for illegal aliens, not legal immigrants with legitimate papers.

[Dr Warmoose]

If it were up to them [the demoncats], we'd be debating until doomsday.

They are trying to create Doomsday.

[Dr Warmoose]

Change "illegal aliens" to "guns" and the Demoncats would do everything in their power to make sure a nationwide system was in place, and mandatory prison sentences were given to all who didn't comply.... Oh wait, there is already a program like that - The Brady Bill.

Yes we can count on the Party of Treason to make sure that illegal aliens and terrorists can roam without fear of prosecution, while American citizens who simply wish to defend themselves against illegal aliens, criminals and terrorists - or simply wish to "put food on the table" are required by Fe'ral Law to check their 2nd Amendment at the door, pay a fee, and wait for the Fe'ral Government to allow one American citizen to sell another American citizen a chunk of metal and polymer.

Since Demoncats hate laws and seem to enjoy their jihad against Western culture, Freedom and Prosperity; I wonder if they wouldn't mind if we elected an illegal alien to replace them in Congress. Can't do any worse.

[XHogPilot]

Could you add to Front Page News?

[NewRomeTacitus]

“...the INS and SSA were not accessible enough to employers," said Rep. Loretta Sanchez, who voted no on the bill. "Thirty-nine percent of employers said that SSA never returned their calls and 43 percent reported that INS didn't return their calls promptly," said Sanchez, D-Santa Ana. If the program went nationwide, she said, businesses would be more frustrated.”

So Ms. Sanchez says the system isn’t perfect so it should be scrapped, yet:

“By January, employers who now must use special software and a modem to access the data will be able to go to a Web site for the same information.”

Problem solved. Round ‘em up, move ‘em out.

[janetgreen]

More PC pandering to hispanics. The "elected ones" who refuse to encourage immigration laws to be enforced should be thrown out on their butts come election time, including President Bush.

All the legislation favoring illegal aliens seems to pass easily, but anything that might actually help solve the problem gets lost in red tape, and the ones in power continue to vote against what the majority of America wants. They should not be re-elected.

[Major_Risktaker]

These Capitol Hill clowns couldn't even agree on the color of fresh snow.

[Mears]

I'm with you. And if Tancredo ever runs for president I will get very active politically for the first time on my life.

[Mears]

Oops! "In my life"

[YankeeReb]

So Ms. Sanchez says the system isn’t perfect so it should be scrapped, yet:

Let's see by this logic the IRS and federal income taxes should also be scrapped because after 60 years they're still corrupt. Wonder if any democrats would call for that?

[dennisw]

The duplicitous Democrats and the immigration lawyers lobby always talk about it being a problem of employers demanding and hiring illegal aliens. About stopping illegal immigration from the employer's end, instead of the employee's end. The duplicitous Democrats always talk about punishing the employers rather than the poor noble downtrodden Mexicans who just come here to earn money for his starving family in Mexico. (/barf)

Here's a program that helps the honest employer obey the law and the Democrats sabotage it.

[LurkedLongEnough]

Thanks for the ping.

[4.1O dana super trac pak]

Tancredo 2004 and 2008.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

The democrats must be desperate the way they're trolling for votes.

What's even worse is when Republicans like Orin Hatch do the same thing. Closing the borders and enforcing the law is a winner with the electorate, not pandering.

[JustPiper]

"There is no other way for an employer who wants to do the right thing to check and see whether they have an employee who is potentially undocumented labor," said Rep. Ken Calvert

[HiJinx]

There is no other way for an employer who wants to do the right thing to check and see whether they have an employee who is potentially undocumented labor," said Rep. Ken Calvert.

What!?!?!?

Somebody posted links last week to 2 different commercial outfits that do just that! BS!

[HiJinx]

Somebody else posted an article this morning that said the Congress killed this pilot program.

What the heck is going on here?

What's the truth?

[HiJinx]

National Immigration I.D. System Crashes in U.S. Congress from Pacific News Service.

Knew I'd seen this...

[viaveritasvita]

Thanks for the ping. Wish I'd known about this before those boneheads voted -- if nothing else, I always feel better if I make a phone call to the capitol on issues I think are vital such as national security!

I think the 'RATS are setting us up.

<><

[NormsRevenge]

Thanks for the other link. It looks like both nationally and in the 6 states , it is a goner.

[Cindy]

FYI - LINKS Of Interest:

IMMIGRATION American Patrol.com The Stein ReportCenter for Immigration Studies Numbers USA California Coalition for Immigration Reform Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform CensusScope.org U.S. Census Bureau YAHOO! News - Search Articles - Term: "Border" NewsMax.com: "Immigration/Borders" IMMIGRATION.gov: "How Do I Report Suspected Illegal Aliens or Suspected Illegal Immigration Activity?" "Immigrants, Not Americans, Must Adapt"

[NormsRevenge]

Thanks Cindy! Hope all is well with you and yours. :-)

[bjcintennessee]

Because of the rules under which the bill was brought up, it needed a two-thirds majority to pass

Isn't there a way to do an end run around this? Present the same bill under "different rules" so that it only requires a majority?

[texastoo]

Last year at a hospital here in south Texas, employees in all departments were given a piece of paper and told to fill in the blanks and then sign it. If it wasn't handed in and signed that week, the employee faced termination.

My friend who has worked at the hospital for over 10 years showed me this paper as she did not want to sign it. Name, address and ss # were asked. Then there was a statement saying that a credit check would be done by an independent company and if she wanted a copy of it she had to pay for it. It also stated that if there were any questions about her character, then they would go to her neighbors and ask them.

Many of the nurses were upset but were forced to sign or lose their jobs. My friend signed it using the terms "under duress" by her name.

I would like to see a copy of the pilot program to see if it includes what I have told you. Quite possibly the hospital abused the program.

If what my friend signed was for the pilot program then this pilot program is akin to airport security. Harass Americans.

If anyone can find a copy of the pilot program, please post it as I would like to read it.

[Cindy]

re post no.31

Everything's fine Norm.

God bless you sir.

Cindy

[FairOpinion]

I would like to see them implement this instant check system and welfare offices, but I bet they don't do it there.

There is a point I didn't see people make about this, which IMO is important. I don't think it's fair to expect the employers to act as policemen and immigration officers, i.e. the burden of detecting illegal immigrants shouldn't be put on employers.

While employers are expected to check, welfare offices aren't allowed to, and with the driver's licences to illegals, the police won't know and won't check either.

This whole thing is backwards. INS, the welfare department and the police should be the ones doing the checking.

[NormsRevenge]

Per the article, House Rep. Calvert from CA isn't dropping the issue and will continue to push for its implementation, meanwhile the Senate has a version of the same legislation in the pipeline, hopefully some action will be forthcoming "soon". (Don't bet your retirement on it.)

[m18436572]

Ahhh... I think you forgot to check your common sense, logic, and reasoning at the door. ; )

[NormsRevenge]

This whole thing is backwards. INS, the welfare department and the police should be the ones doing the checking.

---

Agreed. The business of business IS business. This imposes an additional burden that, in a well-orchestrated society, should not be thrust on the employers as just one more cost of doing business. Open borders and lax law enforcement only make it more of a mess.

[JustPiper]

If what my friend signed was for the pilot program then this pilot program is akin to airport security. Harass Americans.

Texas, this is horrible!

[lainde]

bttt

[texastoo]

It was terrible to be forced to sign something like that. We need to find out more about that program before supporting it.

[mrustow]

"In the evaluation, they said the INS and SSA were not accessible enough to employers," said Rep. Loretta Sanchez, who voted no on the bill.

Gee, what a surprise! Loretta Sanchez, who won election to Congress through the illegal votes of alines, opposing anything that would help crack down on illegal immigration. Who'd'a thunk it?!

[blaze]

What a joke! So, based on this logic, I should throw away my car, because the water pump went out. I guess we should just abandon the borders cause they'll just get in anyway! And why fight the drug war, the drugs will just get in no matter what! I say.... Why have these stinkin politicians in office anyway, they'll just screw things up worse than they are!!!! I am fed up with the crap they keep dishing out to us. The pres should have decared war on terrorism, then we could legally haul half of the RATS off to JAIL!!!

[Madame Dufarge]

According to the evaluation, done for immigration officials by Temple University, about 87 percent of the time, employee numbers are immediately verified by the computer and employers never need to speak to anyone. But in 13 percent of the cases, some follow- up is needed. And sometimes employers have general questions about the program that must be answered by immigration officials.

A success rate of 87% doesn't seem too shabby to me for a pilot program.

And don't Loretta Sanchez's percentages refer to those in the 13% category?

Not that I would ever doubt statistics from Ms. Sanchez (/sarcasm).

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

Thanks for the other link. It looks like both nationally and in the 6 states , it is a goner.

Good. Such a database may be fine for separating illegal immigrants from other workers, but in the future, its use could be expanded to idle dissidents and troublemakers.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

What a joke! So, based on this logic, I should throw away my car, because the water pump went out. I guess we should just abandon the borders cause they'll just get in anyway!

I don't want to abandon our borders. If the INS and the Border Patrol would be more diligent, there would be no perceived need for a "right-to-work" database that basically tracks ALL workers and could be used to idle "undesirables", "defectives", dissidents, etc. And why fight the drug war, the drugs will just get in no matter what!

Why indeed? My grandfather lived through prohibition and saw how useless and corrupted THAT was. Perhaps heavily-regulated, legalized drugs would be a better solution. I say.... Why have these stinkin politicians in office anyway, they'll just screw things up worse than they are!!!!

I agree! Most of them are probably sociopaths, anyway. Know of any good candidates? I am fed up with the crap they keep dishing out to us.

Oh, they excel at that. The pres should have decared war on terrorism, then we could legally haul half of the RATS off to JAIL!!!

War can only be declared by Congress, as if that stops anybody anymore...

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

Repost for people who believe in literacy...

What a joke! So, based on this logic, I should throw away my car, because the water pump went out. I guess we should just abandon the borders cause they'll just get in anyway!

I don't want to abandon our borders. If the INS and the Border Patrol would be more diligent, there would be no perceived need for a "right-to-work" database that basically tracks ALL workers and could be used to idle "undesirables", "defectives", dissidents, etc.

And why fight the drug war, the drugs will just get in no matter what!

Why indeed? My grandfather lived through prohibition and saw how useless and corrupted THAT was. Perhaps heavily-regulated, legalized drugs would be a better solution.

I say.... Why have these stinkin politicians in office anyway, they'll just screw things up worse than they are!!!!

I agree! Most of them are probably sociopaths, anyway. Know of any good candidates?

I am fed up with the crap they keep dishing out to us.

Oh, they excel at that.

The pres should have decared war on terrorism, then we could legally haul half of the RATS off to JAIL!!!

War can only be declared by Congress, as if that stops anybody anymore...

[Blue Collar Christian]

Me thinks the vote record will show just who has illegal nannies raising their kids and cleaning their houses.

[Blue Collar Christian]

"Here's a program that helps the honest employer obey the law and Democrats sabotage it."

And we're all shocked?