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Emergency room records show teen prankster shot in back
AP ^ | 11-03-03

Posted on 11/03/2003 3:51:42 AM PST by AAABEST

BOCA RATON -- A 16-year-old boy killed during a seemingly innocent late-night prank was shot in the back, according to emergency room records.

The medical reports were released Saturday by the attorney for the teen's parents, who said they show he posed no threat to the neighbor who shot him.

Mark Andrew Drewes and a friend had been knocking on neighbors' doors and then running away Oct. 25. He was shot by neighbor Jay Steven Levin, 40, who told police he mistook the 6-foot-2 teen for a burglar.

"It shows he was running away," said the Drewes' attorney, Robert Montgomery. "Nobody was coming at (Levin)."

Montgomery announced Friday that he planed to file a wrongful death suit against Levin on behalf of Mark Drewes' parents, Gregory and Luciana Drewes.

Levin has not been charged in the shooting. His attorney, Bo Hitchcock, did not immediately return a phone message Sunday.

Mike Edmondson, spokesman for Palm Beach County State Attorney Barry Krischer, declined to comment on the hospital report.

Information from: The Palm Beach Post, http://www.pbpost.com


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: 2amd; banglist; beach; palm; prank; ringandrun; rkba; shot; teen
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This guy needs to pay a price for this. "I screwed up" doesn't cut it.
1 posted on 11/03/2003 3:51:43 AM PST by AAABEST
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To: Joe Brower; Squantos; harpseal; SLB; pocat; Travis McGee; wardaddy
ping
2 posted on 11/03/2003 3:53:17 AM PST by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST
There was a thread on this about a week ago where I was defending this guy for guarding his property .... allow me to take a minute to say taht this guy should be wired for sound at this point.

Killing criminals is one thing ... shooting them in the back is quite another. Misdemeanors do not rate pursuit and use of deadly force.

3 posted on 11/03/2003 3:56:58 AM PST by Centurion2000 (Virtue untested is innocence)
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To: AAABEST
More
4 posted on 11/03/2003 4:00:36 AM PST by Consort
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To: dansangel
PING
5 posted on 11/03/2003 4:05:54 AM PST by .45MAN ("Less Law More Justice")
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To: Centurion2000
I agree with you 100%. I'm a big 2a guy like you, but this is bad news on many levels including giving responsible gun owners a bad name.
6 posted on 11/03/2003 4:08:04 AM PST by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST
More info needed before I can take sides . What is this kids record? Was this a harrassment attack or a trick or treat prank around Halloween? How many times previously have they screwed around at this guys homes and what were the other incidents about? More Input , More Input.
7 posted on 11/03/2003 4:14:10 AM PST by sgtbono2002 (I aint wrong, I aint sorry , and I am probably going to do it again.)
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To: sgtbono2002
Yeah, did he turn around once he realized he was looking down a barrel? Why would a homeowner answer the door packing? Had he been harassed or worse in the past?
8 posted on 11/03/2003 4:22:23 AM PST by Jacquerie (Democrats soil the institutions they control)
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To: Jacquerie; sgtbono2002
Please state for me a scenario where you have to shoot someone in the back. I've thought about this but the only situation I could think of was if the perp was running off with a family member on his shoulder or something.

I'm all ears.

9 posted on 11/03/2003 4:31:48 AM PST by AAABEST
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To: Jacquerie
Why would a homeowner answer the door packing?

Well...you have been on Free Republic only a month and a half.

The person who was killed was knocking and running [on doors] at 12:30am. Would you answer the door unarmed?

10 posted on 11/03/2003 4:32:11 AM PST by xrp
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To: xrp
Well...you have been on Free Republic only a month and a half.

What does that add to the conversation?

11 posted on 11/03/2003 4:34:40 AM PST by Half Vast Conspiracy (There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?--Dick Cavett)
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To: Half Vast Conspiracy
Well...you have been on Free Republic only a month and a half.

What does that add to the conversation?

What does THAT add to the conversation?

12 posted on 11/03/2003 4:37:27 AM PST by xrp
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To: xrp
Seriously. Why mention that someone has onyl been here a short time?
13 posted on 11/03/2003 4:51:56 AM PST by Half Vast Conspiracy (There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?--Dick Cavett)
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To: Lion Den Dan; AAABEST; Joe Brower; Squantos; harpseal; sit-rep; pocat; Travis McGee; wardaddy
It sure doesn't look good for the shooter if this report is true and I have no reason to believe that it is not true at this time.
14 posted on 11/03/2003 5:01:37 AM PST by SLB ("We must lay before Him what is in us, not what ought to be in us." C. S. Lewis)
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To: xrp
The person who was killed was knocking and running [on doors] at 12:30am. Would you answer the door unarmed?

Myself when I don't know who's on the other side and I'm afraid that it might be someone who would want to hurt my family, I DON'T ANSWER THE DOOR or here's one for you; I ASK WHO IT IS. I never answer the door packing.
15 posted on 11/03/2003 5:14:49 AM PST by Honcho
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To: Centurion2000
Well stated, I am in the same boat. To shoot anyone in the back is a cowardly and disgusting act.
16 posted on 11/03/2003 5:20:55 AM PST by fml ( You can twist perception, reality won't budge. -RUSH)
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To: SLB; AAABEST
My local paper ran an op-ed on this sad event:

Let's see if gun rights advocates really hold the shooter responsible.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

17 posted on 11/03/2003 5:21:30 AM PST by Joe Brower ("If you need a lawyer to tell you what your rights are, you don't have any rights.")
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To: Honcho
In TEXAS, deadly force is allowed to protect property during the nighttime hours. So, if someone is stealing your garden hose at night you can shoot them....even in the back...no, especially in the back since they'll probably will be running away.

You cannot however, use deadly force on an arsonist who has already started the fire....go figure.

A few years back, a guy got his hubcaps stolen at his apartment complex. He bought new ones, but put an alarm on his car. Someone set off the alarm and he saw a car racing away(at night) and his hubcaps missing. He gave chase, caught up with the car and Killed everyone in the car. He was no billed! The hubcaps were in the car.

Now, nothing about this incident suggests that deadly force was appropriate, even in Texas. But, an understanding of case law is necessary to determine if deadly force is allowed. Something you learn in conceiled carry classes.

18 posted on 11/03/2003 5:26:19 AM PST by cb
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To: Centurion2000
I totally agree. Many posters thought the homeowner was protecting his property at night using deadly force only to find out that the boy was unjustly killed.

I am glad to see a post correcting a past comment once the facts are clear.
19 posted on 11/03/2003 5:32:51 AM PST by Orange1998
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To: AAABEST
Emergency room records show teen prankster shot in back

Hmmm ... do those records also indicate how long after he 'turned' (around) he was shot?

A mere fraction of a second?

Or ten seconds?

20 posted on 11/03/2003 5:37:52 AM PST by _Jim ( <--- Resources on Solar effects, effects on satellites, power systems)
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To: *bang_list
Ping.
21 posted on 11/03/2003 5:41:50 AM PST by Joe Brower ("If you need a lawyer to tell you what your rights are, you don't have any rights.")
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To: SLB
if the teen was shot in the back the homeowner will be facing prison.
22 posted on 11/03/2003 5:41:58 AM PST by harpseal (stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: cb
So, if someone is stealing your garden hose at night you can shoot them....even in the back...no, especially in the back since they'll probably will be running away.

I would call that Vigilante style force. I would have a hard time explaining to friends and family that I shot someone in the back "especially" as they were running away over hubcaps. Regardless if the law says you can kill everyone in the car and get no-billed.

I think the shooter was lucky to get no billed. BTW, I am from Texas.

23 posted on 11/03/2003 5:45:25 AM PST by Orange1998
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To: AAABEST
One of the more frightening and potentially dangerous crimes that can occur to a family is a home invasion. A home invasion is when robbers force their way into an occupied home, apartment or hotel room to commit a robbery or other crimes. It is particularly frightening because it violates our private space and the one place that we think of as our sanctuary.

Home invasion is like the residential form of an automobile carjacking and it is on the rise. Like the crime of carjacking, most police agencies don’t track home invasions as a separate crime. Most police agencies and the FBI will statistically record the crime as a residential burglary or a robbery. Without the ability to track the specific crime of home invasion, little can be done to alert the public as to the frequency of occurrence in their community or devise a law enforcement plan of action to control it.

CRIMINAL PROFILE

Residential burglars work mostly during the day and when a residence is more likely to be unoccupied. Most burglars work alone and tend to probe a neighborhood looking for the right residence and the right opportunity. Alarm signs and decals, bars on windows, strong locks and doors, big dogs, and alert neighbors can sometimes deter burglars. Also, burglars will avoid a confrontation and will usually flee when approached. Most burglaries do not result in violence unless the criminal is cornered and uses force to escape.

Home invasion robbers, in contrast, work more often at nights and on weekends when residences are more likely to be occupied. The home invaders will sometimes target the resident as well as the residence. The selection process may include a woman living alone, a senior citizen or a known drug dealer, for example. It is not unheard of for a robber to follow you home based on the value of the car you are driving or the jewelry you are wearing. Many home robbers have been in your home before as a delivery person, installer or repair vendor. Home robbers rarely work alone and rely on an overwhelming physical confrontation to gain control and instill fear in their victims. The greatest violence usually occurs during the initial confrontation and home invaders often come prepared with handcuffs, rope, duct tape, and firearms. Some in-home robbers appear to enjoy the intimidation, domination, and violence and some even claim it’s a "rush."

DANGEROUS TRENDS

The act of committing a home invasion is escalating much like carjacking. The reason for the increase seems to follow a similar pattern. Much like automobiles, the traditional commercial targets for robbers have hardened themselves against criminal attack and have reduced available cash. Technology has allowed commercial establishments to install affordable video surveillance systems, silent alarms, and other anti-crime deterrent devices. A residence can appear as a more attractive choice.

Home invaders know that they won't have to overcome alarm systems when the home is occupied or be worried about video cameras and silent alarms. Home robbers have privacy once inside and don’t have to deal with customers suddenly driving up or security patrols. Once the offenders take control of a residence they can force the occupants to open safes, locate hidden valuables, supply keys to the family car, and PIN numbers to their ATM cards. Home robbers will try to increase their escape time by disabling the phones and sometimes will leave their victims bound or incapacitated. It is not unheard of for robbers to load up the victim’s car with valuables and drive away without anyone in the neighborhood taking notice.

METHOD OF OPERATION

The most common point of attack is through the front door or garage. Sometimes the home invaders will simply kick open the door and confront everyone inside. More common is when the home invaders knock on the door first or ring the bell. The home invader hopes that the occupant will simply open the door, without question, in response to their knock. Unfortunately, many people do just that.

Home invaders will sometimes use a ruse or impersonation to get you to open the door. They have been known to pretend to be delivering a package, flowers or lie about an accident like hitting your parked car. Once the door is opened for them, the home invaders will use an explosive amount of force and threats to gain control of the home and produce fear in the victims. Once the occupants are under control the robbers will begin to collect your valuables.

http://www.crimedoctor.com/homeinvasion.htm
24 posted on 11/03/2003 5:46:14 AM PST by Dallas59
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To: cb
I can see lethal force against those robbing you --- but a teen prankster is only an annoyance. You do have a right to protect your property --- but the knocking and running is different. I bet this guy had run-ins with these kids before and decided this time to just get them good --- kill them.
25 posted on 11/03/2003 5:56:45 AM PST by FITZ
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To: AAABEST
The guy had had windows broken by paintballs and BBs in the past, so he was no doubt ticked off and on a short fuse.

On the night in question, if there was only one "ring and run" on his house, the ringer would have been way down the street before the home owner awakened and made it to his front door.

If this incident happened at close range, say under 20 feet, I think the ringer was doing it repeatedly, that is, wait for the lights to go back out, and then sneak back to the door and do it again. This is a really sick level of harrassment, coming after windows broken with paintballs etc.

I'm guessing that after the first or second ring and run, the home owner armed himself, turned out the lights as if he had gone back to bed, and then waited just inside by his front door, burning with rage.

The kid came back for another ring and run, and didn't run far.

Would this be homicide, no matter how angry the home owner was, no matter the level of provocation by the neighborhood punks? Yes.

But you have to wonder about how many times he had called the cops for help, and gotten no help at all.


26 posted on 11/03/2003 6:37:06 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: FITZ
This guy is going to go to jail, and he should.

But I hope that the parents of the local affluent neighborhood punks and creeps and jerks also do some soul searching, about their little angels shooting out windows with paintballs and BBs, and doing repeated ring and runs after midnight to the targets of their special mental torture.

The home owner will go to jail, but the teenage paintball punks (and their parents) are guilty too.

27 posted on 11/03/2003 6:42:10 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
I think parents should be very careful and talk with their kids about this kind of thing. There are too many scared people out there who are jumping at their own shadows. Plus loonies who can't tolerate kids. Kids have always pulled pranks --- but times are changed.
28 posted on 11/03/2003 6:44:32 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Travis McGee
I would also blame the police for probably being less than helpful when the homeowner called them before on the neighborhood pranksters. Here we have a curfew on kids ---11pm and it's strictly enforced --- parents have to pay a pretty steep fine if their kid is picked up after 11pm.
29 posted on 11/03/2003 6:49:46 AM PST by FITZ
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To: xrp
Well...you have been on Free Republic only a year and a half.

I guess that is a substitute for a real point.

30 posted on 11/03/2003 7:17:53 AM PST by TankerKC (Member since before you! I win!)
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To: TankerKC
Well...you have been on Free Republic only 5 years.

I guess that is a substitute for a real point.

31 posted on 11/03/2003 7:25:39 AM PST by xrp
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To: Centurion2000
There was a thread on this about a week ago where I was defending this guy for guarding his property .... allow me to take a minute to say taht this guy should be wired for sound at this point.

Killing criminals is one thing ... shooting them in the back is quite another. Misdemeanors do not rate pursuit and use of deadly force.

Same here. I believed this fellow's story before, but now it's starting to stink. If it's true that he shot the kid in the back, I hope he rots in prison.

32 posted on 11/03/2003 8:31:22 AM PST by Frunabulax ("If the truth will kill them, let them die.")
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To: AAABEST; SLB; ConservativeLawyer
I'm gonna wait for the "official" medical report that will "prove" facts before I confirm the shooters a sinner or saint. My initial read on this is that the homeowner "wasn't arrested" at the scene thus evidence at the scene that night made first responders believe the man acted in self defense. Based on my experience as a deputy.... that he walks free still has merit as to who ,what and when versus a little-gators "statements" from a hospital report.

A hospital report can relate the entry and exit wounds thus the kid did have a bullet hole in his back and that alone reported will drive the sympathy/outrage of the community which in turn will drive a DA to do something...anything......at least charge the guy with highway mopery , jaywalking er somethin.

Interesting case indeed. Keep me posted if ya will when ya see more AAA.

Just my "opinions" from my couch, a hunnered miles away....Stay Safe !

33 posted on 11/03/2003 8:33:05 AM PST by Squantos ("Ubi non accusator, ibi non judex.")
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To: AAABEST
Don't forget it was 1;30 in the morning. People are groggy just rousted out of sleep after a long days work, and in my neighborhood, no one stranger has ever knocked on the door after 9 PM in the last 50 years. Besides, in the dark under a porch roof it's hard to see.

Only an idiot harrasses people who are asleep. No, he didn't deserve to be shot, but if only his idiot parents had taught him even the most rudimentary forms of courtesy, this would never have happened.
34 posted on 11/03/2003 8:37:29 AM PST by Held_to_Ransom
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To: Dallas59
Good Post.........Stay Safe !
35 posted on 11/03/2003 8:41:12 AM PST by Squantos ("Ubi non accusator, ibi non judex.")
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To: AAABEST
From Article:"It shows he was running away,"

That is a lie. How can it show he was running? He may have been running away, and if he was half way to the street and was then shot in the back, then the homeowner would be in the wrong. On the other hand, if he was hiding in the bushes with something in his hand, and spun around just a fraction of a second before being shot, then that is a different situation. Not enought information so far to know which is the case.

By the way, does anyone know whether the kids friend can be charged with murder, or is that just for people in the act of committing felonies? I know there was a case of a father shooting a robber holding up a Blockbuster where his son was getting off work. Robber B was charged in the Robber A's murder since they were robbing the store together when the father killed Robber A in self-defense.

36 posted on 11/03/2003 8:51:09 AM PST by On the Road to Serfdom
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To: AAABEST
In my concealed carry class last year, the instructor gave us an example of when it would be justified to shoot someone in the back. An intruder into your home, if armed with a firearm, can be shot even if his back is turned to you. The reason is he could get off an unaimed snap shot, which at close range, could very well hit you, or go through a wall and hit your kids or wife in the bedroom. Of course, before shooting, it might be a good idea to tell him to halt, drop the weapon, lie down flat on the floor and don't move, etc., while waiting for the cops to arrive.

I defended this guy last week, saying I would wait for more info before finding him guilty. Well, if it's true that the kid was shot in the back, he should be taken to meet Old Sparky. Defending your life (and property if you live in a state with sane laws) is one thing, but shooting a kid just because he's an annoying punk is a different story.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

37 posted on 11/03/2003 8:51:27 AM PST by wku man
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To: AAABEST; lifacs; CobaltBlue; Chancellor Palpatine; harrowup; eno_; longtermmemmory; Polybius
Ping... More info on prank shooting story.
38 posted on 11/03/2003 8:53:22 AM PST by demlosers
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To: Travis McGee
News reports that the shooter dialled 911 after he shot the kid.

The story that's told in the local news is that he saw a shape outside the window, picked up his gun, opened his door, fired, then dialled 911.

The kid who was with the dead boy said they saw the homeowner come out the door brandishing his weapon, and tried to run.

Someone who lives in the neighborhood posted last night, and said the kid was running towards home, he lived about ten houses away, and that he was many feet from the house at the time of impact.

Ain't no way this guy skates.
39 posted on 11/03/2003 8:59:08 AM PST by CobaltBlue
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To: CobaltBlue
How was the point of impact established? That seem to me to be the most critical information.
40 posted on 11/03/2003 9:07:21 AM PST by On the Road to Serfdom
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To: xrp
"The person who was killed was knocking and running [on doors] at 12:30am. Would you answer the door unarmed?"

I do not answer the door at all at 12:30 AM. I arm my self, then shout, "Who is it?" If an answer is not forthcoming, I call 911 and remain armed in a defensible location. If it's a neighbor, they identify themselves and I come to their assistance. That's the only situation that has ever been the case when someone has knocked on my door late at night. I can think of others, where the Police or Fire department might be knocking late. In all of those cases, my demand for identification would be answered.

I don't go to the door, armed, then open it. That's just stupid.
41 posted on 11/03/2003 9:10:17 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: AAABEST
WOW! Levin shot the kid in the back!!

This kid must have seen the gun and ran for his life.

42 posted on 11/03/2003 9:25:50 AM PST by Major_Risktaker
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To: Honcho
Myself when I don't know who's on the other side and I'm afraid that it might be someone who would want to hurt my family, I DON'T ANSWER THE DOOR or here's one for you; I ASK WHO IT IS. I never answer the door packing.

That's going to cost you some day. Maybe more than you can bear. There is a vast difference between answering the door with a gun held discretely behind your back, or still in its holster and your hand on the butt, and coming out shooting.

I once opened my door, as I turned on the floodlights, to find a cop in my fenced back yard! Turns out he was responding to a strange noise complaint. The noise was me knocking my garage door back into alingement, but it was pretty late when I got home with the tool for the job. The cop never saw the gun, we exchanged explanations, and that was that.

43 posted on 11/03/2003 10:26:14 AM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: cb
In TEXAS, deadly force is allowed to protect property during the nighttime hours.

Not only during the night. It's just that a specific crime, theft, can only be responded to with deadly force during the night. You can also use deadly force to stop someone fleeing with your property, night or day, if a reasonable person would determine that it was the only way to recover your property. Better to let the cops handle recovery in most cases, if only because of civil liability problems, either from you shooting and hitting the thief or shooting and hitting your neighbors' dog.

44 posted on 11/03/2003 10:32:20 AM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: Dallas59
Residential burglars work mostly during the day and when a residence is more likely to be unoccupied. Most burglars work alone and tend to probe a neighborhood looking for the right residence and the right opportunity. Alarm signs and decals, bars on windows, strong locks and doors, big dogs, and alert neighbors can sometimes deter burglars. Also, burglars will avoid a confrontation and will usually flee when approached. Most burglaries do not result in violence unless the criminal is cornered and uses force to escape.

The main reason they act this way is that they are afraid of getting shot. Home invasion robbery is much more common where the residents are less likely to be armed. Like DC, New York, or the United Kingdom.

45 posted on 11/03/2003 10:35:00 AM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: cb
A few years back, a guy got his hubcaps stolen at his apartment complex. He bought new ones, but put an alarm on his car. Someone set off the alarm and he saw a car racing away(at night) and his hubcaps missing. He gave chase, caught up with the car and Killed everyone in the car. He was no billed! The hubcaps were in the car.

I remember that. They weren't hubcaps, they were some particularly expensive custom wheels. I don't think he chased the kids down, but he did fire into their vehicle, with an SKS. Some of them died, but I don't think it was all of them. He was indeed no billed, by a Dallas grand jury.

46 posted on 11/03/2003 10:37:49 AM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: xrp
I'm sure that you think you are real funny. Find another site for funny guys.

You commented on someone's tenure here rather than what they were saying. Is there a point to that? If so, let us know what it is. Otherwise, continue with your Pee Wee Herman debate style. I'll ignore it.

47 posted on 11/03/2003 10:41:25 AM PST by TankerKC (Member since before you! I win!)
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To: El Gato
Do you believe the shooter had the legal right to use deadly force in this case? And if so, was it morally correct?
48 posted on 11/03/2003 10:48:03 AM PST by demlosers
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To: AAABEST
I agree with you 100%. I'm a big 2a guy like you, but this is bad news on many levels including giving responsible gun owners a bad name.

Thank you to you and Centurian2000 for recognizing this is not a good 2a case. I participated in a thread last week where a bunch of psychos were defending this guy, facts be damned.

One nut-bucket was alluding they would come to my house to demonstrate how flawed my philosophy of not answering the door with a loaded gun was.

I am also an anti-gun control person. We have many guns and my husband, children and I enjoy shooting all of them. We took a van load of kids out on Earth day and had a blast, literally.

I also know there are psycho weirdos who give gun ownership a bad name and this guy is obviously one of them. Now all gun owners will be demonized. This creep really set back our right to bear arms.

49 posted on 11/03/2003 10:50:20 AM PST by Zevonismymuse
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To: xrp
Would you answer the door unarmed?

I don't answer a door unless I think it is safe to do so. If I suspected a danger outside I would leave the deadbolt on and call 911. If I felt I was in danger I might get out a loaded gun while I waited for the police to arrive. I cannot imagine unlocking my door if I thought the situation required being armed.

50 posted on 11/03/2003 10:57:31 AM PST by Zevonismymuse
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