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Lt. Col. Allen B. West
Washington Times ^ | November 6, 2003 | Stanley SrA. USAF 91-95

Posted on 11/06/2003 6:31:20 PM PST by Calpernia

Letters To Leaders

All messages are published with permission of the sender. The general topic of this message is Defense/Military:

Subject: Lt. Col. Allen B. West

To: Sen. Charles Schumer

November 6, 2003

Sir,

With all due respect, this is the very first time I have ever written to a Senator. With regards to this fine officer and the plight he is in. I have attached the article below if you are unaware of his situation. As an American, and as a veteran myself, I am utterly disgusted, shocked, and ashamed that our Army is harassing this man and is even considering a court martial. These same people who are requesting this mans court martial would probably have something quite different to say if it were their loved ones lives who were saved by this mans actions. I can not express to you how utterly disgusted and extremely angry I am at this outrageous and unjust treatment of an officer who saves lives by using such tender tactics as these to gain information from an enemy who does not abide by, or respect any code, or human right. I mean are you kidding me! So he fired a weapon near his head and made a threat, BIG DEAL! LIVES WERE SAVED!!!! Hello? Is this thing on? Are you hearing me!!! Are we such a nation of weaklings that we would have our interrogators offer prisoners candy popcorn and maybe a comfortable seat on the couch while they decide if they want to cooperate or not! Consider the tactics of our enemy, yeah, I won't even go there as they are too gruesome and inhumane to even mention. This absolutely ludicrous and unjust action being considered against this American fighting man who saves lives and who gave so many years of his life in that effort is an abhorrent black mark on the face of what is increasingly becoming and embarrassing country to have sworn my allegiance to. And no, I am not ashamed of our president and his decision to go to war. I am NOT one of those. No, in fact I LOVE our president and I am all for sending a message to radical religious groups who have committed so many blatant acts of war against our country in the name of their religion. No Sir, what makes me ashamed is to read of our nation treating it's heroes, like this Man Col. West, like a criminal when his only action was to save lives. It sickens me. Absolutely sickens me and almost makes me wish I had never served. Almost. Let me just leave you with this last thought so that you understand. I say almost as I never served in our country's armed services for you, or any fed. No government agenda was ever a motivating factor in my serving. As though I was subordinate to the government and obeyed the orders thereof, my service was to the people who had gone before me and stood and fought and died for my right to impart this to you now. It is for their sake, and for their honor that I did serve. And it is for their sake, and for their honor that I am still proud to be an American and I will still stand and fight should my country call me to do so. I do not know how to make this any more plain to you Sir, this is an injustice that needs to be rectified. PLEASE do what you can on this honorable mans behalf. Also, thank you Sir for having taken the time.

Sincerely Stanley SrA. USAF 91-95

'Heroic' officer clings to faith Facing charges after foiling ambush plot, 'devastating' to be regarded as a criminal

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35447

Guilderland , NY


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: allenwest; colonelwest; ltcolallenbwest; wot
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To: montag813
PRESIDENT BUSH----TELL THAT DIRTBAG J.A.G. TO DROP ALL THE GODDAMN CHARGES NOW!

Well, that's not how the rule of law works.

Better to go to court martial and get a ruling that Lt. Col. West acted appropriately in handling an illegal combatant that had no rights under the Rules of War to POW status or POW rights.

The JAG must be ruled wrong lest this happens again and lest other officers believe that it is their legal duty to handle terrorists with kid gloves.

51 posted on 11/06/2003 8:54:22 PM PST by Polybius
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Here's a bump Tonk.
52 posted on 11/06/2003 8:55:55 PM PST by fatima (Prayers for all our troops,also Karen,4ID,stay safe.)
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To: Calpernia; Ragtime Cowgirl
Thanks for the ping RC.

What have we come to? The military politicians now running things need to all resign and let the warriors take over. LTC West is the type of officer we need leading troops. He obviously learned the basic tenets of leadership, "follow me."

Where are you Jesse, you fraud? What about you Biggal, nothing to say? You both are cowards and frauds. Neither of you could carry LTC West's belt buckle. You finally have the chance to do something good and you run into hiding.

Letters written
Petitions signed

FREE LTC WEST NOW!!!!!!
53 posted on 11/06/2003 8:58:41 PM PST by Hondo1952 (Tomkow6 come out of the closet.)
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To: Calpernia
I was hoping we could discuss/debate this like adults. So, I'd appreciate if we could keep this civil.

First, I assume there is a whole lot we do not know about the case, so I am uncertain as to your first question. As I see it, many here seem to think they have all the info necessary to make a judgement and render a recommendation to the SECDEF. As one who has done military investigations, we know about 10%-25% of what happened.

Second, does not your tagline have a touch of irony in it in this whole episode?

Third, I hope he is found not guilty, because it would reflect poorly on how we try to educate and train our officer corps to behave in high stress situations. Recommendations from the Division Staff Judge Advocate to the CG like this are not made lightly, especially for so senior an officer.

Fourth, as one who is likely to face similar dilemmas shortly, I can honestly say that I do not know how I would react in the same circumstance.

I think you'll see that if he is found guilty, it will have less to do with the discharge of his weapon and more to do with the use of some soldiers (who have since been charged and convicted under a lesser form of military justice than the General Court-Martial) to rough up the prisoner.

This is not going to be an easy case. And the results will have serious ripples throughout the theater of operations, whatever they are.
54 posted on 11/06/2003 9:03:39 PM PST by A Simple Soldier
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To: Hondo1952
Thank you Hondo!
55 posted on 11/06/2003 9:07:46 PM PST by Calpernia (Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
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To: Calpernia
bump.

I have written. Hope to hear back from them.
56 posted on 11/06/2003 9:10:03 PM PST by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Bookmarking for an e-mail in the am. Thanks, this is extremely important.
57 posted on 11/06/2003 9:16:22 PM PST by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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exonerate Col. West from this grossly misguided criminal prosecution

Bump

58 posted on 11/06/2003 9:19:11 PM PST by flutters (God Bless The USA)
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Evening to you VHAW! Thank you!
59 posted on 11/06/2003 9:21:21 PM PST by Calpernia (Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; MeeknMing; mosby; Old Sarge; JohnHuang2; mhking
I'll be on this in the morning. Thanks. I've been steamed about this crap for a while. Glad to be helping. Thanks guys and gals. :o)

Now I feel like I can do something besides be upset about this. Lets pass this stuff on to our e-mail addy's with the story and the links for helping. That is my plan tomorrow.

I'm gonna sleep a heck of a lot better knowing I can do something.



60 posted on 11/06/2003 9:21:43 PM PST by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: flutters
Thanks flutters. I hope you find the link I sent you informative.
61 posted on 11/06/2003 9:22:20 PM PST by Calpernia (Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
The best I can do for these men (having a brother in the 101st)is fight their enemies here at home. Anyone who challenges this man is an enemy to our liberties.
62 posted on 11/06/2003 9:23:57 PM PST by DanielLongo
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; Calpernia
Signed petition...and have e-mailed until my fingers are getting a little sore.

Will do more tommorrow....1st person to contact is Sen. Hatch.

redrock

63 posted on 11/06/2003 9:29:19 PM PST by redrock (Say a Prayer tonight.....for we have 'boots on the ground'.....)
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To: redrock
Thank you Redrock!
64 posted on 11/06/2003 9:30:55 PM PST by Calpernia (Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
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To: Calpernia; Ragtime Cowgirl; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
If he retires, he falls short of his benefits. He is just shy of his 20 years. NO BENEFITS. He should NOT accept a retirement, as he will not recieve benefits from all I've read. This is not acceptable. He has done nothing WRONG.

I hope he fights this all the way!! He has done everything right. He saved his men. He "should" be getting pinned with a medal. Considering how we are losing our troops by snipers, we shouldn't be discouraging our troops from this kind of interrogation techniques. In fact, they should be able to be a heck of a lot rougher without fear of ANY consequences. This is WAR. I could care less if the prisoner had LOST an ear in the interrogation. If it saved ONE of ours it would have been worth it!

65 posted on 11/06/2003 9:31:01 PM PST by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: Calpernia
See ya in the morning. Thanks again. Goodnight FRiend!!
66 posted on 11/06/2003 9:31:36 PM PST by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
http://www.army.mil/contact.htm

I can not find Army senior staff contact info at that url.
67 posted on 11/06/2003 9:34:58 PM PST by Yehuda
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
>>>If he retires, he falls short of his benefits.

He has a wife recovering from cancer and two young daughters too.

68 posted on 11/06/2003 9:35:55 PM PST by Calpernia (Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
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To: Calpernia
This seems so grossly unfair.May the Army do the right thing by Col. West. eventually.
69 posted on 11/06/2003 10:01:03 PM PST by MEG33
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
To ROB Lt. Col. Allen B. West of his retirement and other military benefits would truly be criminal!

God bless this man for his service to our country!
70 posted on 11/06/2003 10:25:30 PM PST by Fawnn (Official Canteen wOOhOO Consultant ... and www.CookingWithPam.com person)
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To: Calpernia
Thanks Cal..

I am most of the time so very proud of our military....

but other times..

ugh, well, you know!

God's strength & help to this great man & his family
71 posted on 11/06/2003 11:25:19 PM PST by DollyCali (Authenticity: To have arrived !)
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To: sultan88
BUMP for Col. West
72 posted on 11/07/2003 3:12:17 AM PST by putupon (Newbie FR abbreviation lesson of the day---pIAR----putupon Is Always Right)
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To: Levante
thay would have to defend Bush's War to help this man.
73 posted on 11/07/2003 3:25:17 AM PST by RaceBannon
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Bump for later action!
74 posted on 11/07/2003 4:05:43 AM PST by F-117A
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To: sultan88
This whole thing is PC. There is no place for PC in war if lives are at stake. This man did a smart thing and should be rewarded, not punished. Let's go to the PC Pentagon and kick some A.
75 posted on 11/07/2003 4:30:49 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: Calpernia
I've looked at Weinie's site but I haven't tried to sign the guest book yet. Maybe this weekend. I look a lot.

TO myself I said, "You look so familiar! Have we met before?" LOL...........

76 posted on 11/07/2003 4:58:04 AM PST by lonestar (Don't mess with Texas)
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To: sultan88
This isn't my best poem because I get too mad to flow with it but here is as close as I'll get.

Weenies hate Heroes

Just what the hell you thinking,
Your head is up your butt.
This punishment you’re seeking,
Makes you, look like nut.
He didn’t harm a single soul,
He only saved some lives.
A few more soldiers, who’ll go home,
And grow old with their wives.
How can you drag him through the dirt,
While sitting in your chair?
I, for one am glad that he,
Not you, was over there
Our soldiers fight our nation’s wars,
And this man is the best.
Stop your persecution of,
Lieutenant Colonel West

Flurry 11/7/3

If any Pentagon Weenie wants to talk about this, I’m ready!!!
77 posted on 11/07/2003 5:13:29 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: Flurry
What's your take on "Do as I say, not as I do" leadership?
78 posted on 11/07/2003 5:17:03 AM PST by Poohbah ("Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?" -- Major Vic Deakins, USAF)
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To: Flurry
That was a good poem. Thanks!
79 posted on 11/07/2003 5:18:30 AM PST by sultan88 ("the man from the magazine said I was on my way, somewhere I lost connection...")
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To: Poohbah
My take is that it is not leadership. Leadership is "follow me".
80 posted on 11/07/2003 5:28:06 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: sultan88
Thanks. I'm mad as hell about this.
81 posted on 11/07/2003 5:28:35 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: Calpernia
While I would like to see more facts before making a judgement, I am appalled by the attitude of so many, that an officer disobeying orders is of no consequence. When this officer's soldiers disobey his orders, just what will he say to them?

There are times--especially in wartime--when a soldier must disobey, because of conditions his superiors are unaware of. But in those cases said soldier must then take responsibility for that decision. Not in the modern way that so many of our "leaders" do, saying "I take responsibility" while accepting no consequences.

82 posted on 11/07/2003 5:28:46 AM PST by alpowolf
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To: Flurry
My take is that it is not leadership. Leadership is "follow me".

In that light, what's your take on the two soldiers who beat this Iraqi getting an Article 15 from West, followed by West pulling this stunt?

This came to light during an IG investigation. The Army doesn't kick off IG investigations for giggles & grins.

83 posted on 11/07/2003 5:31:15 AM PST by Poohbah ("Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?" -- Major Vic Deakins, USAF)
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To: alpowolf
While I would like to see more facts before making a judgement, I am appalled by the attitude of so many, that an officer disobeying orders is of no consequence. When this officer's soldiers disobey his orders, just what will he say to them?

West apparently gave two enlisted soldiers Article 15s for beating this Iraqi.

He who cannot command himself cannot command others...

84 posted on 11/07/2003 5:32:38 AM PST by Poohbah ("Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?" -- Major Vic Deakins, USAF)
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To: Polybius
The colonel should be promoted. The JAG should be fired. The JAG's time would be better spent finding out who raped Jessica Lynch, that is if they run out of terrorists to represent ...
85 posted on 11/07/2003 5:33:37 AM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: Poohbah; alpowolf
Another?

Our numbers are growing. Maybe there will be less emotion and more sense brought to this discussion.

I doubt it.
86 posted on 11/07/2003 5:36:57 AM PST by Ispy4u
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To: montag813; Ispy4u
Large fonts do not make your argument more valid.

PRESIDENT BUSH----IF YOU CONVICT THIS PATRIOT OF THIS RIDICULOUS CHARGE, YOU WILL LOSE MY VOTE IN 2004. PERIOD.

The executive branch does not run the judicial branch; they are co-equal branches of government.

TELL THAT DIRTBAG J.A.G. TO DROP ALL THE GODDAMN CHARGES NOW!

And the JAG would be absolutely right to refuse to do so, and such attempted interference in the functioning of the judiciary would be impeachable.

87 posted on 11/07/2003 5:39:04 AM PST by Poohbah ("Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?" -- Major Vic Deakins, USAF)
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To: Poohbah
I haven't seen that yet. Beating is physical versus firing a gun and making a threat is mental. So I guess we need to release all the folks at Gitmo then?
88 posted on 11/07/2003 5:47:26 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: Flurry
They are both considered crimes under UCMJ.

So why is it ok to punish one crime and reward another?
89 posted on 11/07/2003 5:49:42 AM PST by Ispy4u
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To: Ispy4u
I'm very aware of the UCMJ. Neither should be rewarded but I maintain that a court marshall is over punishment. Are you a vet? ROE and UCMJ are standards of behavior and should be followed, but a court marshall for saving lives without taking any is too severe. Should we release the folks at Gitmo?
90 posted on 11/07/2003 5:54:54 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: Poohbah
He who cannot command himself cannot command others...

Exactly. Which raises another issue, which we here can't know the truth of yet: was this a calculated act, or did this guy let his rage control him? We can't know which it is, but the Army needs to find out.

91 posted on 11/07/2003 5:57:40 AM PST by alpowolf
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To: Calpernia
The only "sin" or crime committed by
Col. West is that he made a couple of
female miliary Interrogrators that had
worked on the Iraqi for several hours without
results and Col. West comes in and makes
him talk. He made the females look bad.
The Pentagon Feminists want his hide and
we should defend Col. West against this attack
92 posted on 11/07/2003 5:59:21 AM PST by twowilliam (twowilliam)
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To: Flurry
It is important to remember that a court-martial is a judicial proceeding, not a punishment. In some cases the serviceman will actually choose this proceeding in order to clear his name.

Maintaining discipline in our armed forces and releasing the detainees at Gitmo are two entirely different questions. If we disciplined servicemen in Gitmo that would not lead to the release of the prisoners.

93 posted on 11/07/2003 6:01:32 AM PST by alpowolf
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To: Flurry
Assault is not a minor offense and therefore is not subject to Article 15 proceedings.

The JAG in this instance had evidence that a crime (assault UCMJ Art. 128)had been commited. Therefore the JAG had to recommend court martial.

How aware of that were you?
94 posted on 11/07/2003 6:07:26 AM PST by Ispy4u
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To: alpowolf
I know what a court marshall is and I don't think he would have a chance. I wasn't with him when he did what he did but I'd rather be alive due to his action than dead due to his compliance. He is being made a poster child for lesser wrongs than I'm sure have been unreported. Conventional war vs what we now face in Iraq are so different that there needs to be two different sets of rules. THAT IS MY OPINION.
95 posted on 11/07/2003 6:08:20 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: Flurry
know what a court marshall is and I don't think he would have a chance.

Why not?

Conventional war vs what we now face in Iraq are so different that there needs to be two different sets of rules.

In other words, only follow rules and principles, and maintain military discipline, when it is easy and convenient to do so. We in the US pride ourselves on being different from the rest of the world, but if we use our difficulties as an excuse to sink into barbarity we are not different at all. That is my opinion.

96 posted on 11/07/2003 6:14:55 AM PST by alpowolf
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To: Ispy4u
JAG = Lawyer = Lawyer. Inaction by West = Dead US Soldiers.

We are not going to agree so I choose to stop. My comments stand as my feelings about the whole thing and I am entitled to my feelings and I am no longer in the military therefore USMJ can not surpress my feelings. See ya later on a thread where we might agree.
97 posted on 11/07/2003 6:17:35 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: A Simple Soldier
>>Furthermore, does it not bother anyone else that his wife played the race card immediately? Go back and read some of the initial articles. <<

Yes, indeed it does bother.

>> The Army is an institution that prides itself on being as close to color blind a place in America.<<

Not really, in a way. Back in 1996, when speaking with a neighbor that was a Colonel in the Army, he mentioned that promotion boards make their selection and then, if the lowest guy on the list is a white male, the promotion board then starts going down the list below the cut-off, looking for a minority that didn’t make the cut. When they find a minority they then would then compare the lowest white male select with the highest minority non-select. This “second look” may sound “fair” to some, but is actually a message that if you are a minority you get a second chance, a better chance at being promoted because the white males does not get a second look if he is a non-select, whereas a minority to get a second chance. It also tells the promotion boards they better use race as a factor in their selections. (You don’t want the boss to second guess promotion decisions purely because he is using race as the motivating factor.)


As far as responding to the media, you have a point that the media hardly ever get things right in their reporting, especially when it involves military-related items. However, given what Col West has written, and given the charges and public release statements of the Army, it is clear the Army is trying to impose a PC agenda.

The fact remains that Col West and his troops were in contact with the enemy, were facing a direct and lethal threat, and intimidation is a proven, and legal, method to extract information.

The “Rules of Engagement” movie does depict a similar situation where difficult choices on a bloody and dangerous and dirty battlefield do not necessarily allow easy decisions regarding methods and technique. I highly recommend this movie for those interested in ethical dilemma’s on the battlefield, and when said dilemmas do not necessarily track with legal requirements.

Now, let’s say Col West was part of a group that was looking for a nuke in Iraq, and said nuke is programmed to go off within an hour. They capture one of the main plotters and this bad guy knows where the nuke is. Now, do you play paddy-cake with the bad guy, respecting his “rights,” or do you use extreme measures, to include torture, to make him talk? Of course, every sane person would endorse extreme measures to extract the information. Now, change the scenario some and we have Col West in Iraq, knowing his troops are under threat, an ambush is planned and the bad guy is not talking, do you endorse the use of extreme methods (intimidation only)? You should.

If the situation was where the battle was over and the troops were in garrison, and the threat was not immediate, then let the slow, drip-drip of relentless questioning take its toll. However, this was not the case. Immediacy of the situation required affirmative action to protect his troops.

Difficult situation, but clearly Col West did the right thing at the right time.
98 posted on 11/07/2003 6:19:42 AM PST by Gunrunner2
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To: alpowolf
You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. Good day.
99 posted on 11/07/2003 6:20:09 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Living fast is fine as long as you steer well and have good brakes.)
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To: Calpernia
Signed petition and bttt ! ...


100 posted on 11/07/2003 6:30:25 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Check out the Texas Chicken D 'RATS!: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/keyword/Redistricting)
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