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Darwinian Dissonance?
Internet Infidels ^ | Timeless | Paul A. Dernavich

Posted on 11/06/2003 7:34:45 PM PST by Heartlander

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To: VadeRetro

341 posted on 01/12/2004 8:49:07 AM PST by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: general_re
Your confusion stems from a typo. I'm not really known as "Long Tong Retro."
342 posted on 01/12/2004 8:51:13 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
These are the tongs use when I play with my giant Rubic's Cube I got at Sam's Club:


343 posted on 01/12/2004 8:51:30 AM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: VadeRetro
Your keyboard still have that sticky "D"?
344 posted on 01/12/2004 8:53:33 AM PST by js1138
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To: VadeRetro
I thought it was "Retro the Human Tripod?"
345 posted on 01/12/2004 8:54:02 AM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Bluntpoint
I'd be concerned that a couch like that might suddenly capsize, myself...
346 posted on 01/12/2004 8:55:00 AM PST by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: js1138
No. He washes up afterwards.
347 posted on 01/12/2004 8:55:00 AM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Bluntpoint
Ice tongs. On a summer job back in 1969 I encountered a similar instrument which was at least locally known as "tie dogs." They were used for dragging (by one man) or carrying (by two men) railroad ties around. They had an ingenious but simple design. The handle part was formed as horizontal cross bars. The weight of the railroad tie basically made the points of the tongs bite deeper.
348 posted on 01/12/2004 8:58:34 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: general_re
Capsize? I dunno about that...but it loves the beach!


349 posted on 01/12/2004 9:01:24 AM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: Bluntpoint
If you love something, set it free...


350 posted on 01/12/2004 9:12:16 AM PST by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: general_re
If you love something, set it free...

I have that movie on tape. It always makes me cry!

351 posted on 01/12/2004 9:22:47 AM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: VadeRetro
I'M IN THE PROCESS OF HONESTLY STUDYING THE EVIDENCE.
352 posted on 01/12/2004 10:18:50 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: Concerned
I do find that AiG's use of PhD GEOLOGISTS adds significant credibility to their argument. I would HOPE that a PhD in ANY subject would tend to know "their" subject matter VERY well.

If you're impressed that there are YEC PhDs, then you must also read this poignant article by Glenn Morton, a former YEC author and oil industry geophysicist. Here's a small portion of it:

For years I struggled to understand how the geologic data I worked with everyday could be fit into a Biblical perspective. Being a physics major in college I had no geology courses. Thus, as a young Christian, when I was presented with the view that Christians must believe in a young-earth and global flood, I went along willingly. I knew there were problems but I thought I was going to solve them. When I graduated from college with a physics degree, physicists were unemployable since NASA had just laid a bunch of them off. I did graduate work in philosophy and then decided to leave school to support my growing family. Even after a year, physicists were still unemployable. After six months of looking, I finally found work as a geophysicist working for a seismic company. Within a year, I was processing seismic data for Atlantic Richfield.

This was where I first became exposed to the problems geology presented to the idea of a global flood. ...

By 1986, the growing doubts about the ability of the widely accepted creationist viewpoints to explain the geologic data led to a nearly 10 year withdrawal from publication. My last young-earth paper was entitled Geologic Challenges to a Young-earth, which I presented as the first paper in the First International Conference on Creationism. It was not well received. Young-earth creationists don't like being told they are wrong. The reaction to the pictures, seismic data, the logic disgusted me. They were more interested in what I sounded like than in the data!

... It appeared that the more I questions I raised, the more they questioned my theological purity. When telling one friend of my difficulties with young-earth creationism and geology, he told me that I had obviously been brain-washed by my geology professors. When I told him that I had never taken a geology course, he then said I must be saying this in order to hold my job. Never would he consider that I might really believe the data. Since then this type of treatment has become expected from young-earthers. I have been called nearly everything under the sun but they don't deal with the data I present to them. Here is a list of what young-earthers have called me in response to my data: 'an apostate,'(Humphreys) 'a heretic'(Jim Bell although he later apologised like the gentleman he is) 'a compromiser'(Henry Morris) "absurd", "naive", "compromising", "abysmally ignorant", "sloppy", "reckless disregard", "extremely inaccurate", "misleading", "tomfoolery" and "intentionally deceitful"(John Woodmorappe) 'like your father, Satan' (Carl R. Froede--I am proud to have this one because Jesus was once said to have been of satan also.) 'your loyality and commitment to Jesus Christ is shaky or just not truly genuine' (John Baumgardner 12-24-99 [Merry Christmas]) "[I] have secretly entertained suspicions of a Trojan horse roaming behind the lines..." Royal Truman 12-28-99

... But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.

"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"

That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

See also Morton's page Personal Stories of the Creation/Evolution Struggle

353 posted on 01/12/2004 3:58:42 PM PST by jennyp (http://crevo.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: jennyp
Nice little stories, penned by --whoever. The internet is full of them, topics r us.
354 posted on 01/12/2004 5:11:38 PM PST by Markofhumanfeet
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To: jennyp
Festival of "Tractionless Trolls" memorial placemarker
355 posted on 01/12/2004 6:17:54 PM PST by longshadow
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To: longshadow

356 posted on 01/12/2004 6:51:09 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Everything good that I have done, I have done at the command of my voices.)
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To: Markofhumanfeet
An "ironic" placemarker...
357 posted on 01/13/2004 9:38:36 AM PST by Junior (Some people follow their dreams. Others hunt theirs down and beat them mercilessly into submission)
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To: jennyp
You left out one of the best parts:

 Being through with creationism, I was almost through with Christianity. I was thoroughly indoctrinated to believe that if the earth were not young and the flood not global, then the Bible was false. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist. During that time, I re-read a book I had reviewed prior to its publication. It was Alan Hayward's Creation/Evolution (Triangle, 1985). Although I had reviewed it prior to its publication in 1985, I hadn't been ready for the views he expressed. He presented a wonderful “Days of Proclamation” view which pulled me back from the edge of atheism. Although I believe Alan applied it to the earth in an unworkable fashion, applied differently, his view had the power to unite the data with the Scripture. That is what I have done with my views. Without that I would now be an atheist. There is much in Alan's book I agree with and disagree with, but his book was very important in keeping me in the faith. While his book may not have changed the debate totally, it did change my life.

It was my lack of knowledge that allowed me to go along willingly and become a young-earth creationist. It was isolation from contradictory data, a fear of contradictory data and a strong belief in the young-earth interpretation that kept me there for a long time. The biggest lesson I have learned in this journey is to read the works of those with whom you disagree. God is not afraid of the data.

(Bold mine)

358 posted on 01/13/2004 9:55:23 AM PST by Junior (Some people follow their dreams. Others hunt theirs down and beat them mercilessly into submission)
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To: Heartlander
Eureka! ....now bump for later read.
359 posted on 01/13/2004 12:18:16 PM PST by Varda
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To: jennyp
It is not the fallacy of composition. I see your problem with it, but what is 'consciousness' and on which entities is it located? Scientifically speaking, it does not exist, because it is not observable - it cannot be located anywhere or as the result of the combinations of anything! And yet it does exist, so how does science approach the problem? See below.
360 posted on 01/13/2004 12:40:29 PM PST by PDerna
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