Gay With Children (Barf Alert)

New York Metro Magazine ^ | 11/3/03 | David Usborne

[I_Love_My_Husband]

Yes, even twenty years ago, you could find gay parents who, one way or another, had acquired children, but they were the brave few, fighting an uphill battle against skeptical adoption agencies, disapproving teachers, and heterosexual parents who weren’t sure they wanted their offspring having sleepovers with friends whose two daddies would put the kids to bed. Now the mainstreaming of gay life has made adopting simpler, less controversial, and the number of people doing it has reached critical mass. “This issue has reached its tipping point,” suggests Scott Goldsmith, a clinical assistant professor of psychiatry at Weill Cornell Medical College. “Children are a far more visible part of gay culture.”

Inevitably, all these families with two moms or two dads are having a dramatic effect on gay expectations—and gay and lesbian identity. When younger gays begin to consider possible future relationships, they must judge potential partners in a different light—are they parent-worthy and do they have the same feelings about progeny? For older gays, especially those in established relationships, the question of children has arisen suddenly. Across town, gays are debating the pros and cons of becoming, of all things, breeders.

“When I was 24, what your life looked like it could become, for an upper-middle-class white gay guy with cultural aspirations, was a lot of clubbing, a lot of dating, and a lot of fucking and a lot more fucking,” observes the writer Daniel Mendelsohn. “We had some vague idea that if you got lucky, you might find someone to settle with far on the horizon.

“Now people in their twenties are looking at a cultural smorgasbord that includes not only Sunday nights dancing till six in the morning and taking ecstasy but also a time when you might get married and have children. And that is not all that different from the paradigm that all my straight peers were dealing with—that at some time they would settle.”

[I_Love_My_Husband]

Poor kids.

[I_Love_My_Husband]

ping

[tractorman]

It would be better for them if a millstone were hung on their necks and dropped into the sea than harming these children.

[NicknamedBob]

"...heterosexual parents who weren’t sure they wanted their offspring having sleepovers with friends whose two daddies would put the kids to bed..."

But they're not going to indoctrinate the children in any way. Oh, no.

Someone once said that obesity tended to run in families, even when the children were adopted.

[The Great RJ]

I'm afraid that the little Heathers with two mommies or worse yet little Jimmys with two mommies will grow up in a household with rather warped ideas about men. How will little Heather or Jimmy react at about age 12 when they become aware of their own sexuality and all they have seen and heard at home is that men are bastards and scum. Ditto for the little Heathers and Jimmys growing up with two daddies. What kind of sexual identity will they have?

[I still care]

"When I was 24, what your life looked like it could become, for an upper-middle-class white gay guy with cultural aspirations, was a lot of clubbing, a lot of dating, and a lot of fucking and a lot more fucking,” observes the writer Daniel Mendelsohn. “We had some vague idea that if you got lucky, you might find someone to settle with far on the horizon."

Would you give up a child for adoption, knowing it might end up with this man?

Besides which, I'll bet a reason a lot of people like the gay lifestyle is that they never have to settle down, they like the partying. I'll guess that a lot of gays are dismayed that "settling down" might be expected of them.

[scripter]

Thanks for the ping. That's a four-part original article which I'll have to read later.

I have plenty of information to take to the local county about why gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt. Sheesh - it's a behavior that can be changed and yet agencies refuse to acknowledge or are unaware of the facts. It's time to educate the county with what the experts have to say on the matter.

[Luke]

I'm sick and tired of sexual deviates destroying a perfectly good word like "gay".

[joesnuffy]

It was about 30 yrs when I was in college and sudsing my duds in the local laundramat
where I got to witness a thirtish looking couple with their some what defiant 8-10 yr old son..

"The dad" was a leather clad bulky diesel dyke and "the mom" some burnt out looking shell of a thin woman.

I couldnt help but feel for the young boy..and he kept looking over at me..as "the dad" was giving him a tough time about just doing what young boys do while being bored to tears hanging around a laundramat on a nice spring day..

To hear "mom" keep refering to the dyke as "your dad" as in "listen to your dad"...was disgusting..and the little boy was suffering...in severe psychological torment...this was not his dad and he wanted nothing to do with "it" or "them"...but he was a little kid...trapped...no where to hide or run to...

I couldnt imagine this poor kid having to explain the dyke as "dad" to his school chums or to the teacher on parent-teacher night...and the teach who had to accept this with a smile as though it was normal...

Of course our cultural leaders believe that fixing this problem is as easy as accepting the perverse as normal...the problem is with the straight folks not the crooked ones..

I wonder to this day ..what ever happend to that 'little boy' what did they turn him into
or did God have some sort of great grace for him that overode what this insanity might have done to him...


Its 30 some years later...and this 'phenomenon' has increased 1000 fold...and our culture is now replete with sodomite/lesbian apologists..(some even call themselves "conservatives) I imagine millions of these kids now grown up..themselves twisted and believing this to be the norm...and/or the norm to shoot for when defining a culture..leading a nation..and when inculcating 'values' to their own offspring..

We fixed the problem by making or attempting to make the perverse normal..acceptable..desireable...or even simply no big deal...so what..none of your business what others do to each other in the privacy of their own hell holes...(of course it never stays just there...it begins to permeate the culture & shape it's values..)

if America does not experience some miraculous transformation..I cant imagine it being a world power a whole lot longer...

Even the muslims & mexicans sense this...and are moving in to carve up the dying beast...i
as America moves from being the 'land of opportunity' to the 'land of opportunists'...imo

[upchuck]

Thanks for the ping, scripter.

I feel so sorry for these kids. As joesnuffy in #9 said above, they're trapped. But I wonder if they can know they're trapped.

[scripter]

Although I believe the causes of same-sex desire are mostly prenatal hormone conditions, I would agree that same sex behaviors can be changed.

Before I spend valuable time away from my family to engage you in a discussion, and since you became a freeper just today, I'd prefer to wait and see from where you're coming as time allows. You can get a very good idea from where I'm coming by reading my profile and/or clicking on the first link in the top left hand corner, or you can click here.

Your above comments tell me you haven't read the latest on the issue, but that information is readily available right here:

• Can Homosexuals Change? 
• How Might Homosexuality Develop? Putting the Pieces Together 
• Finding a Needle in the Ocean 
• Homosexual Researchers Debunk 'Born Gay' Urban Legend 
• Is Homosexuality Genetic? 
• Is Sexual Orientation Fixed at Birth? 
• Lust, Violence & Genetics 
• Is There a "Gay Gene"? 
• The Gay Gene? 
• The Biological Research on Homosexuality 
• The Fading "Gay Gene" 
• The Gay Gene: Going, Going...Gone 
• The Innate-Immutable Argument Finds No Basis in Science 
• A Change In Thinking 
• What Causes Homosexual Desire and Can It Be Changed? 
• Facing The Truth About Homosexual Behavior 
• What Is "A Homosexual" 
• Gender Identity Disorder 
• Where Did the Gay Gene Go? 
• Born What Way? 

Perhaps you can read some of the above links prior to our future discussion? I certainly hope so.

[Held_to_Ransom]

Every gay family is entirely dependent on the failure of a straight family to provide them the chance to raise kids.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Wonder what happened to the kids?

[N3WBI3]

had acquired children

How pathetic, I hope god grants me the gift of a kid, I do not hope to 'acquire' one as if they are a car, or exotic pet...

[Alouette]

The homosexual adoption advocates make the absurd claim that it is better for a child to be placed with a gay "family" than to languish unloved in some orphanage. This claim makes the assumption that there are millions of unwanted children suffering in gloomy, Oliver Twist orphan asylums.

The reality is that such orphanages no longer exist, and there is a long waiting list of childless, heterosexual couples who want to adopt. The gays just want to be moved to the head of the line ahead of the "breeders".

[Aquinasfan]

To hear "mom" keep refering to the dyke as "your dad" as in "listen to your dad"...was disgusting..and the little boy was suffering...in severe psychological torment...this was not his dad and he wanted nothing to do with "it" or "them"...but he was a little kid...trapped...no where to hide or run to...

Absolutely tragic.

[Aquinasfan]

The reality is that such orphanages no longer exist, and there is a long waiting list of childless, heterosexual couples who want to adopt. The gays just want to be moved to the head of the line ahead of the "breeders".

Good point.

[Houmatt]

Let's not forget the sexual abuse these poor kids will certainly go through as the pedophiles of the world enter and exit their lives.

[hunter112]

Someone once said that obesity tended to run in families, even when the children were adopted.

I suppose in households where there is a family bed, as well as a family dinner table, then the comparison to sexuality would be valid.

I don't have the statistics to back it up, but I'd guess most homosexual people came from heterosexual parents.

[scripter]

Some of the links refer to a gay gene, and still, none have been found. Even Simon Levay admitted his research didn't find any such gene.

Yet you missed my main point, which is the major factor in determining homosexuality is environment. It's as if you didn't read the links, just some of the titles!

I don't believe there is a ethical argument outside of specific religious traditions.

There are a myriad of health reasons:

• Cure for AIDS: Abstinence  FR 
• Hazardous to Your Health - The Risks of Homosexuality  FR 
• The Health Risks of Gay Sex 
• Researcher Warns of Homosexuals Seeking HIV Infection  FR 
• Modelling the Impact of HIV Disease on Mortality in Gay and Bisexual Men 
• The Negative Health Effects of Homosexuality 
• Scientific Evidence on Condom Effectiveness for Sexually Transmitted Disease (STD) Prevention 
• Health and Homosexuality  FR 
• Unsafe healthcare "drives spread of African HIV" 
• African sexual health programmes "misguided" 
• African Women and AIDS 
• Rise of Internet Fuels Fears of AIDS Resurgence 
• Kinsolving: "Will Bishop-elect Robinson and his male lover be tested for HIV-AIDS?"  FR 
• Homosexual AIDS Claims Cause Controversy  FR 
• Bug Chasers: The men who long to be HIV+  FR 
• Acting Up  FR 
• U.S. sees HIV cases rise among gay, bisexual men  FR 
• The American Journal of Public Health Highlights Risks of Homosexual Practices  FR 
• Many HIV positive don't tell 
• Anal Sex Largest Cause of HIV in Africa  FR 
• Gay health statistics 
• Gay Men Meeting Online Contracting Syphilis Faster 
• Syphilis Cases On The Rise In Bay Area  FR 
• New Skin Infection Concerns Doctors, Activists  FR 
• Anal Cancer and YOU 
• Compassionate Society Should Discourage Deadly Homosexual Behavior 
• Anything But Gay: The Deadly and Dangerous Homosexual Lifestyle  FR 
• Desensitizing America, Part I: AIDS Sensitivity Training  FR 
• Homosexuals Demand Legalization of Sex With Strangers...  FR 
• Is This Gay Behavior Sick? 
• Just the Facts: AIDS & the Homosexual Lifestyle! 
• Modelling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay and bisexual men 
• Sharing Disease is Not a Civil Right 
• Sodomy: A Public Health Risk  FR 
• Syphilis in gay men raises AIDS concern 
• Syphilis outbreak among L.A. gay men in 2002 leads to... 
• The Many Myths of AIDS 
• The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS: A Nine-Year Retrospective of Fear and (Mostly) Loathing  FR 
• The plague abettors 
• U.S. HIV and AIDS cases reported through December 2000 
• Why Isn't Homosexuality Considered A Disorder On The Basis Of Its Medical Consequences? 
• With Fears Fading, More Gays Spurn Old Preventive Message 
• World AIDS Day: Reflections on the Pandemic  FR 
• California to track HIV cases by code AIDS-delaying drugs mask disease's spread 
• SF doctors report "startling" increase of syphilis 
• Homosexual behavior increases risk of AIDS 
• Sexual Politics And Scientific Logic: The Issue Of Homosexuality 

That's all of my time you'll get for now.

[scripter]

Let's not forget the sexual abuse these poor kids will certainly go through as the pedophiles of the world enter and exit their lives.

Worth repeating.

[NicknamedBob]

"I don't have the statistics to back it up, but I'd guess most homosexual people came from heterosexual parents. "

Sure. So naturally, homosexuals, being unable to propagate, will disappear in a generation or two, (unless there's some other way that homosexuality happens?)

[GulliverSwift]

Not to mention psychological, biological, and societal implications.

The fact that homosexuality is not only non-natural but directly in opposition to nature is an important factor, too.

[whereasandsoforth]

""Again the primary question is "Why should they?"
I don't believe there is a ethical argument outside of specific religious traditions.""


Why should they? I don't suppose they should deny themselves anything that makes them happy and doesn't hurt others. There's the rub. Don't bring children into the mix. My ability to admire and accept homosexuals is greatly thwarted by their inability to accept their lot in life an go on about their business. By definition, their existance is defined solely by one thing and that is sex. That is not a healthy thing, as facts explain. Just leave the children alone.

[hunter112]

...homosexuals, being unable to propagate, will disappear in a generation or two, (unless there's some other way that homosexuality happens?)

I don't know how homosexuality happens. I can imagine that if there is genetics involved, it could be some sort of recessive genes, just the way that traits that do not contribute to survival keep appearing in a population. It might be that environmental circumstances produce homosexuality, and it might be a combination of these things.

All I know for sure is, that outlawing homosexuality has never worked. There are those here who think that taking every civil right away from gay people, and stuffing them all in prison will make their own kids think twice about it. It's just never happened, its only a question of how deeply underground homosexuality has to hide itself. I'd rather know that my kid's teacher is openly gay, rather than find out some other way.

[NicknamedBob]

"...leaders believe that fixing this problem is as easy as accepting the perverse as normal..."

People call it a lot of things. The most most insidious component is perversion. (If Homosexuality is okay, what's wrong with NAMBLA?, et cetera.) Once you start down this path, there's no limit to the human degradation you can find.

I remember examining a book once titled Perversion, I believe the writer's contention was that a certain amount of unnatural interest in children, etc. was okay for the Human Species, as it kept us from disintegrating into the kind of society that lions have. (The new male kills the offspring of the previous male, as in 'her live-in boyfriend.')

Disturbing thought, but even if true, it only proves equally true that this tendency needs to be controlled.

[EdReform]

"... and certainly the testimonial evidence from lesbians and gays is overwhelming."

Yes, let's consider What Homosexuals Say About Homosexuals - (Is This Gay Behavior Sick?):

"Let´s look at gay behavior as defined by two gays, Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen Ph.D., authors of After the Ball: How America will Conquer its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90´s (1989).

In Chapter Six, they outline “ten categories of misbehavior,” drawn from their own experiences, wide reading and thousands of hours of conversation with hundreds of other gays. Their contention is that the gay lifestyle, not gay sexuality mind you, “is the pits.” They want gays to improve their image by addressing “what is wrong with a lot of gays.” (276)

What follows are some highlights. As you read this, ask yourself if there is another human community, including the Mafia that could make these generalizations about itself. Ask yourself if we haven´t caught this disease, or at least the sniffles.

•  The authors say “a surprisingly high percentage” of pathological liars and con men are gay. This results from a natural habit of self-concealment, and leads to a stubborn self-deception about one´s own gayness and its implications.

•  They say gays tend to reject all forms of morality and value judgments. Gay morality boils down to “If it feels good, I´ll do it!” If a gay feels like seducing a trusted friend´s lover, he´ll do it, justifying it as an act of “sexual freedom” and the friend be damned.

•  They say gays suffer from a “narcissistic” personality disorder and they give this clinical description: “pathological self absorption, a need for constant attention and admiration, lack of empathy or concern for others, quickly bored, shallow, interested in fads, seductive, overemphasis on appearance, superficially charming, promiscuous, exploitative, preoccupied with remaining youthful, relationships alternate between over idealization and devaluation.”

•  As an example of this narcissism, the authors say “a very sizable proportion of gay men” who have been diagnosed HIV positive continue to have unprotected sex.

•  They say the majority of gays are extremely promiscuous and self-indulgent. They must continuously up the ante to achieve arousal. This begins with alcohol and drugs and includes such “forbidden” aspects of sex as wallowing in filth (fetishism and coprophilia) and sadomasochism, which involves violence.

•  They say many gays indulge in sex in public bathrooms and think it is antigay harassment when it is stopped. Many think they have a right to importune straight males, including children.

•  Many gays are “single minded sexual predators” fixated on youth and physical beauty alone. When it comes to the old or ugly, gays are “the real queerbashers.” Disillusioned themselves, they are cynical about love.

•  “Relationships between gay men don´t usually last very long.” They quickly tire of their partners and fall victim to temptation. The “cheating ratio of ‘married´ gay males, given enough time, approaches 100%.”

•  Even friendships are based on the sexual test and hard to sustain. Unattractive gay men find it nearly impossible to find a friend, let alone a lover.

•  The authors say gays tend to deny reality in various ways: wishful thinking, paranoia, illogic, emotionalism and embracing crackpot ideas."

[NicknamedBob]

"Once you start down this path, there's no limit to the human degradation you can find."

• They say gays tend to reject all forms of morality and value judgments. Gay morality boils down to “If it feels good, I´ll do it!” If a gay feels like seducing a trusted friend´s lover, he´ll do it, justifying it as an act of “sexual freedom” and the friend be damned.

Like I said.

[hunter112]

My question is why should monongamous same sex behavior be changed?

Biggest reason for most posters on the homosexuality threads is the current interpretation of their religious texts. All of the "health" issues are window dressing over the religious issues, and the "ick" factor.

Thanks for being a voice of moderation and reason on this thread.

[EdReform]

Ping

[whereasandsoforth]

Well, in that case your existance is defined solely by sex as well, after all what is the definition of "heterosexual"?

What in the world makes you think I am a heterosexual? Aren't gays allowed to think clearly about the issue?

[MeekOneGOP]

[MeekOneGOP]

barf alert!

MICHAEL STUPARYK/TORONTO STAR

Michael Stark, left, and Michael Lashner pop champagne
and kiss after their wedding ceremony yesterday.
Leshner called the ruling, "Day One for millions of gays
and lesbians around the world."

Gay couple married after ruling
(Toronto, Canada)

B.C. court OK's gay marriage -
first gay couple legally married in British Columbia

Gays Flock to Divorce Court

Same-sex unions in 'News' -
Dallas Morning News to publish FREE
same sex unions announcements

The Media's Gay Mafia "Queers" the News

Useful Idiot Caption-A-Rama: Special Gay Pride Edition!

Sexual Suicide: The Rebellion of Homosexuality Causes Untold Suffering

Gay frat seeks approval from UT-San Antonio
(See #39 for some humor)

[ArGee]

Yes, even twenty years ago, you could find gay parents who, one way or another, had acquired children,

At that time you would have been supported if you rescued the children from the destructive home. Today you would be villified.

Shalom.

[scripter]

Biggest reason for most posters on the homosexuality threads is the current interpretation of their religious texts.

You're going to ignore what I say anyway, but it has to be said:

You're wrong.

Most posters on the homosexuality threads are well informed of the issues and we don't post and run, like you keep doing.

As I keep saying and folks like you try to ignore, thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle. The experts state the major factor in determining homosexuality is environment and the above links go into some detail on the issue. The environment factor is supported by the fact that thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle.

Those are the facts. Again, if you have any information from reputable scientists or researchers that haven't already been debunked and they state otherwise, then post them. Otherwise you're just supporting the gay agenda.

Homosexuals need true friends willing to help, not folks who are always encouraging a very destructive lifestyle

[scripter]

All of the "health" issues are window dressing over the religious issues, and the "ick" factor.

You don't speak for me, hunter112. Do you deny the reality of the health issues surrounding the homosexual lifestyle? They are listed in post 23.

[scripter]

Argh! Not those pics again! :-)

[gcruse]

Thanks for being a voice of moderation and reason on this thread.

From the looks of his profile, ie, no such poster, it looks
like moderation and reason are no match for ideologues.

[scripter]

From the looks of his profile, ie, no such poster, it looks like moderation and reason are no match for ideologues.

Unfortunately for those pushing the gay agenda, they are no match for those pushing just the facts. Every time somebody comes along pushing the gay agenda, trying to argue against the facts, they just end up misrepresenting what was said or trying to act like they read what was posted.

If I'm wrong in my position I want somebody to show me with something other than "I think this or that," because my position is based on the latest research and I won't change my position based on what's currently politically correct.

[scripter]

I don't know how homosexuality happens. I can imagine that if there is genetics involved, it could be some sort of recessive genes, just the way that traits that do not contribute to survival keep appearing in a population. It might be that environmental circumstances produce homosexuality, and it might be a combination of these things.

If you read the latest research you'll have a really good idea how it happens. If genetics were, somehow involved, do we then accept and allow any behavior that can be traced back to genetics? Do we just let everyone do whatever they want to anyone, all in the name of, "Hey I can't help it, it's genetic."

[gcruse]

If I'm wrong in my position I want somebody to
 show me with something other than "I think this or that,"

Well, here, we just ban your account.  How's that?

[scripter]

From what I understand, you push the gay agenda you get banned. You try to come back as somebody banned, you get banned again. You have more than one account on FR, you get banned. Again, if somebody cares to present facts or research on this issue that wasn't debunked within hours of it's release, I'm interested in reading it.

[gcruse]

I don't know that any of that was the case. I got here too late to read any of the bannee's posts. All I saw was someone complimenting him/her on their moderation and reasonableness. Naturally, that not only gets you banned,apparently, but all your posts get nuked.

[scripter]

I believe the posts get nuked because of their content. That is, making statements that are known to be false and pushing an agenda. The account was possibly banned for any of the reasons I mentioned above or some other reason... dunno.

If folks are interested in open debate with just the facts without pushing any agendas, then fine. That's kinda hard to do for those who already broke the rules and got banned, and it's really hard for them to come back if they covertly keep trying to do so. I don't know if that was the case today, but I know it's previously been the case.

[gcruse]

If folks are interested in open debate with just the facts without pushing any agendas, then fine.

I think you are being too noble.  The choice
of facts one presents in debate are determined
by his agenda.  The fact that you seem to think
you are not pushing an agenda is kinda funny.