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Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 8 -10
Various | November 7, 2003 | sweetliberty

Posted on 11/07/2003 7:54:47 PM PST by sweetliberty

TERRI'S FIGHT
(Thread 6 - November 8-10, 2003)
(Link back to thread 5 - Nov. 5-7)

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Contained in Thread 4:

Link to article on Michael Schiavo from hometown newspaper, information on death by starvation and dehydration, information on hospice eligibility and hospice and medicare/medicaid fraud, e-mail address for Judge Greer, transcript of Larry King Live interview with Michael Schiavo and George Felos, Terri's address at the hospice and the address for the foundation, to send cards for Terri's birthday (December 3), transcript of O'Reilly interview with Kate Adamson, e-mail addresses for Florida legislature, transcript of Abrams Report interview with George Felos and Pam Anderson, transcription of Terri's bone scan, legalese for dummies version of Gov. Bush's motion to dismiss Sciavo's suit against the Constitutionality of Terri's Law, link to FatherOfLiberty's research on HBOT (Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy), links to ACLJ involvement in Schiavo case and Father Rob Johansen's daily update.

There are four other relevant posts that I want to highlight here in case anyone missed them or didn't get pinged. These are a general Terri thread troll alert, an especially thoughtful post about the sincere effort that FReepers are making in Terri's behalf, the Father's Love Letter , and remarks made by Jim Robinson on this issue and reposted here by lonevoice.

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Click on pic for Terri's website

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This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

There was a tremendous amount of information posted on the previous thread. For anyone who hasn't been following the daily threads, links to relevant posts and information from the previous thread are contained in the body of the present one. I have found that very helpful in trying to find something later. You people are doing a spectacular job of getting information out and also in helping to keep all of us updated here. What a great joint effort. This fight, to me, illustrates beautifully what Free Republic is about and what it means to be a FReeper. Way to go FRiends. Keep up the good work!

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Latest threads On Terri's Case

Pro-Life Group Questions 'Quality of Life' Premise in Schiavo Case

Judge Lets Parents Challenge Custody of Terri Schiavo

Dean blasts governor over Schiavo case

Husband Must Defend His Guardianship of Terri Schiavo

Judge Bans Terri Schiavo's Parents From Legal Battle

Dean 'Appalled' That Florida Lawmakers Saved Schiavo

A Woman's Life Versus an Inept Press (Nat Hentoff on Terri Schiavo

Terri Schiavo Case: Gov. Bush Asks To Meet New Guardian

Terri Schiavo Case: Creditable Witnesses & the 1st Guardian

Judge Rejects Bush Effort in Schiavo Case

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TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: attorneyfromhell; buttout; daily; euthanasia; florida; forcesofevil; georgefelos; guardianfromhell; hino; merchantsofdeath; michaelschiavo; righttolife; schiavo; schiavothread; schindler; terri; terrischiavo; terrischindler
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: daylate-dollarshort

1,151 posted on 11/10/2003 10:27:06 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
Self portrait?....fitting.
1,152 posted on 11/10/2003 10:30:45 AM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: daylate-dollarshort

1,153 posted on 11/10/2003 10:36:11 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: All
Much thanks to all the sleuths that keep the information coming. I follow daily, though I don't comment. I am sure there are many more concerned about Terri's case that do the same. I call and send emails and letters when I can. Please keep the information flowing. It is invaluable when you consider the mainstream media wishes this would go away.
1,154 posted on 11/10/2003 10:38:34 AM PST by a5478 (a5478)
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To: FR_addict
He's quoting Star Trek?(Anyone else reading this- see post 1,099 for reference) And this guy has been given power over life and death? Sheeesh, it's worse than I thought. This just has to be stopped . It's madness.
1,155 posted on 11/10/2003 10:50:17 AM PST by fly_so_free (Never underestimate the treachery of the democratic party. Save the USA-Vote a democrat out of offic)
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To: Budge
My guess would be that Michael and Felos are saying that "the original money" is gone. They (likely Jodi) invested wisely and consider that money THEIRS!
1,156 posted on 11/10/2003 10:56:48 AM PST by UCANSEE2 ("Duty is ours, Results are God's" --John Quincy Adams)
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To: UCANSEE2; Budge
My guess would be that Michael and Felos are saying that "the original money" is gone.

Great point; the principal is gone, not the added-value/interest made off the principal.

1,157 posted on 11/10/2003 11:00:45 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: sweetliberty
Amen,.........More Grace and Mercy,........In Jesus' Precious Name, Amen!!!
1,158 posted on 11/10/2003 11:02:34 AM PST by maestro
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To: Krodg
Oh, I see, so Felos doesn't want "Dr. Death" type people ending terminally ill people's lives, but he advocates more cruelly, just letting them die with no food or water.

I don't advocate either for terminally ill OR disabled. Felos wants this advanced form of population control.


He really is sick. The more I read about him and his "stuff" the more I get the creeps. If Mrs. Browning did make a noise, it wasn't because she was still here, it is because she was suffering at being starved.

What the hell is wrong with him? Felos lack ANY type of humanity. He is a Nazi doctor!

We need to spread the word about him. I never even knew who he was or what he has been doing until Terri's case came about.

Not only is God keeping her alive and WILL deliver her from her enemies, but I believe one day she WILL tell her story and confront the murderer Felos.

This is also God's way to get the masses (us) to band together to show was Felos and his followers are.

Right do die? Spare me. This is right to murder.
1,159 posted on 11/10/2003 11:03:55 AM PST by atruelady
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To: daylate-dollarshort
Better check this out! Suddenly leaves PA??? Why?? Better check and see what his criminal record is. Check his juvenile record, does he frequent postitutes?? Does he have a drug record.....etc....etc...etc...etc..........

Since try ...

1,160 posted on 11/10/2003 11:06:03 AM PST by Mo1 (http://www.favewavs.com/wavs/cartoons/spdemocrats.wav)
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To: fly_so_free
Look at those people in Rancho Santa Fe in 1997 who committed suicide to catch the "comet". Heavens Gate or something?

They were into sci-fi films and loved Star Trek. Felos is an off shoot.

Let's get the limelight on him. Show what a freak he is. I would love to buy airtime to expose this freak. Or, have a good section in a major newspaper devoted to Felos and his wierdness just to let people know what he is and what he stands for.

HOW DARE HE PLAY GOD!!!!!!!!!
1,161 posted on 11/10/2003 11:07:26 AM PST by atruelady
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To: nicmarlo
Off his/hers meds I guess
1,162 posted on 11/10/2003 11:07:45 AM PST by Mo1 (http://www.favewavs.com/wavs/cartoons/spdemocrats.wav)
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To: nicmarlo
LOL. Is that our friend plus the two other trolls who showed up at almost the same time today on the Terri life insurance thread? (The recreational therapist at the asylum must be letting them use the internet again)
1,163 posted on 11/10/2003 11:09:15 AM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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To: atruelady; Krodg; sweetliberty; Budge
On December 9, 1946, an American military tribunal opened criminal proceedings against 23 leading German physicians and administrators for their willing participation in war crimes and crimes against humanity. In Nazi Germany, German physicians planned and enacted the "Euthanasia" Program, the systematic killing of those they deemed "unworthy of life." The victims included the mentally retarded, the institutionalized mentally ill, and the physically impaired.

The Doctors Trial

1,164 posted on 11/10/2003 11:13:08 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: lonevoice; Mo1
LOL! they definitely have been let out today, I think! : )
1,165 posted on 11/10/2003 11:14:26 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: UCANSEE2
They (likely Jodi) invested wisely and consider that money THEIRS!

Of course. Why else would HINO present evidence from doctors who had examined Terri in the suit for millions who said Terri COULD be rehabilitated?

Then, as soon as the money is safely tucked away in an account, stocks, bonds, Treasury Bills, etc. drawing excellent interest, with HINO the ONLY one with control over that money, would MS "suddenly remember" Terri wouldn't want to "live that way" - hooked to a machine..

Eating and drinking through a tube is a machine?

Plus the fact that Terri was just beginning to actually eat Jello! That suddenly stopped when he started forbidding her parents to see her, when he insisted a DNR be put on her chart.

Please excuse me for going on so, but the stupidity, the wonten disregard for LIFE demonstrated here AND by judges, lawyers, HINO and all just infuriates me!

1,166 posted on 11/10/2003 11:14:39 AM PST by Budge ( <>< .)
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To: Budge
I, too, am outraged at this case. And what a horror to be starved to death. We don't even permit this to the worst of criminals on death row.
1,167 posted on 11/10/2003 11:21:16 AM PST by Dante3
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To: atruelady
Too bad the press hasn't mentioned any of this (Felos and his Star Trek religiousity, and mind-tricks-cause-planes-to-crash- weirdness-see post 1,099 ). But , considering how low quality, and lacking in details, the coverage has been, I guess it's too much to ask. Too bad. All we hear about is Kobe and Scott Peterson.
1,168 posted on 11/10/2003 11:24:03 AM PST by fly_so_free (Never underestimate the treachery of the democratic party. Save the USA-Vote a democrat out of offic)
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To: nicmarlo
Thanks! Here's the updated timeline of the creepy couple's mutual attraction to the legal system:

07/19/82 Jodi sues Mr. Rask (automobile accident)
09/07/88 Jodi sues Mr. Fletcher (automobile accident)
03/03/89 Jodi sues Mr. Demoney (automobile accident)
02/25/90 MS sues Dr. Prawer
05/22/90 MS sues Prudential Insurance
10/30/90 MS sues Dr. Neuhardt
05/20/91 MS ran stop sign
11/23/92 MS speeding
05/31/94 MS driving w/expired license
05/31/94 MS driving w/expired registration
08/29/96 Jodi speeding
09/21/00 MS sues Dr. Igel
02/05/01 Jodi speeding
08/19/02 MS failure to obey traffic device
1,169 posted on 11/10/2003 11:27:03 AM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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To: sweetliberty
On mxbookfinder.com I found a book titled LITIGATION AS SPIRITUAL PRACTICE by George Felos, Blue Dolphin Press. However, when I checked the authors at Blue Dolphin Press the name of Felos was nowhere to be found. Maybe it is out of print.
1,170 posted on 11/10/2003 11:40:37 AM PST by Dante3
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To: lonevoice
The timeline raises the question of why MS sued Dr. Prawer and Dr. Neuhardt in 1990 but waited ten years before suing Dr. Igel? Anyone know?
1,171 posted on 11/10/2003 11:43:08 AM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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To: Dante3
I don't think it's out of print. You can buy it at Barnes & Noble. I would never do that, of course. No way would I want to line his pockets with any more proceeds. Better to check it out of the library.
1,172 posted on 11/10/2003 11:43:51 AM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: Dante3
In stock at amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-6247329-6829453. The link also allows anyone to write a review and rate the book. Hmmm...maybe we need to FReep some reviews!
1,173 posted on 11/10/2003 11:46:14 AM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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To: lonevoice
I think that must be an error somehow, because he sued Igel in '90 or '91 and got the judgement in Nov. 1992. Maybe someone else sued Igel. I seem to remember an earlier post where he was sued several different times.
1,174 posted on 11/10/2003 11:46:19 AM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: Dante3
Probably trying to make room for his new book, "My Spiritual Journey With Terri," to be released as soon as she's dead. Yes, I know it's sick. It's also true...at least the fact that he is is writing the book and that is it's title. The rest is logical assumption. Here's the link for this one.

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Click on the pic.

1,175 posted on 11/10/2003 11:51:38 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: T'wit
Now THAT is funny (about the kool-aid)!
1,176 posted on 11/10/2003 11:54:49 AM PST by atruelady
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To: All
Anyone have a clue as to when the " guardianship hearing" will be heard in Judge Greers' court? ( the hearing he granted Terri's parents contesting MS as guardian?)

I believe last I heard, Judge Greer asked MS several questions that must be answered.

1,177 posted on 11/10/2003 11:55:14 AM PST by pollywog (Psalm 121;1 I Lift mine eyes to the hills from whence cometh my help.)
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To: fly_so_free
"This book could be called 'God in the Courtroom.' It is a wonderful and amazing step on the path that our legal system must take if it is to truly heal and resolve the differences that arise between us. This book is a miracle. I am going to call George Felos God's Lawyer from now on." Neale Donald Walsch, author of Conversations with God

I've seen that book "Conversations with God" and thought about picking it up. I'm glad I didn't. I don't see how anyone reading some of the excerpts from the book can agree with Felos, obviously a new-age guru.

Here's another review:
"Here is a masterful blend of spiritual awareness and legal expertise. I am deeply impressed by George J. Felos' dedication to serving and bringing healing and well-being through the legal profession. I wish every lawyer would read this inspiring book, as well as those seeking to empower themselves in their personal lives. This is a breakthrough!" Alan Cohen, author of Wisdom of the Heart

Nowhere do these review let you know he's trying to kill someone off in the courtroom and claims to have some sort of spiritual link to that brain-dead person.

Felos wraps his evil stories in new-age mumbo jumbo and the elitist fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

1,178 posted on 11/10/2003 11:55:54 AM PST by FR_addict
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To: All
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA
SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT


In re: The GUARDIANSHIP OF Theresa Marie SCHIAVO, Incapacitated.
Michael SCHIAVO, as Guardian of the person of Theresa Marie Schiavo,
Petitioner,
v.
Robert SCHINDLER and Mary Schindler, Respondents.

No. 90-2908-GB-003.

Nov. 22, 2002.

ORDER

THIS CAUSE came on to be heard for an evidentiary hearing on the Motion for
Relief from Judgment filed by Robert and Mary Schlinder ("Respondents") pursuant to
the Mandate issued by the Second District Court of Appeal on October 17, 2001
("Mandate"). Before the court were Patricia Fields Anderson, Esquire, attorney for
Respondents; and George J. Felos, Esquire, attorney for Michael Schiavo, as Guardian
of the Person of Theresa Marie Schiavo ("Petitioner"). The evidentiary hearing
commenced on October 11, 2002 and concluded on October 22, 2002 during which time
the court heard testimony on separate days from the treating physician of Terry
Schiavo and five board- certified expert physicians, two selected by the Petitioner,
two selected by the Respondents and one selected by the court since the parties
could not agree upon an independent fifth expert. This procedure was pursuant to the
Mandate. The court also received into evidence numerous exhibits including copies of
published medical articles, copies of summaries of published medical articles, CT
Scans and videos of medical examinations. The court also had the opportunity to
observe the witnesses when they testified, to note body language, pauses,
inflections and other non-verbal factors utilized in determining credibility which
would not appear in a transcript of these proceedings. The court also heard
excellent closing arguments from the attorneys who were well prepared and quite
knowledgeable in this area of the law. Based thereupon, the court makes the
following findings of fact and conclusions of law.

Initially, the Mandate required the court to hear testimony from five expert
medical witnesses to determine whether or not "new treatment offers sufficient
promise of increased cognitive function in Mrs. Schiavo's cerebral
cortex--significantly improving the quality of Mrs. Schiavo's life--so that she
herself would elect to undergo that treatment and would reverse the prior decision
to withdraw life-prolonging procedures". The Mandate provided that the evidentiary
hearing was "only for the purpose of assessing her current medical condition, the
nature of the new medical treatment and their acceptance in the relevant scientific
community, the probable efficacy of these new treatments and any other factors the
trial court deems relevant". Based thereupon, this court declined to take lay
testimony and also declined to consider other factors inasmuch as the focus of the
Mandate was with new medical treatment and its probable effect upon Terry Schiavo.

In response to the Mandate, the court directed that a physical examination of Terry
Schiavo be done by her treating physician. The court then directed Dr. Victor
Gambone, M.D. testify, essentially to set the stage and provide a basis for the five
experts to begin their examinations and ultimately provide their testimony. The
court does not consider the testimony of Dr. Gambone to be relevant to the ultimate
decision this court is required to make, confining itself instead to the testimony
of the five experts for that purpose. Additionally, the video examinations which
formed a part of the evidentiary hearing and which the court viewed in their
entirety at the requests of both parties, contained conversations between the
parties and various doctors. Some of these conversations could be considered
probative as either admissions against interests or bolstering of positions.
Nevertheless, the parties were not under oath at that time and, as a consequence,
the court has not and will not consider those statements except to assess any
response or non-response that Terry Schiavo may have had thereto.

All of the five expert medical physicians have very impressive credentials and
resumes. The record documents those credentials so they need not be set forth
herein. All are board-certified which was a requirement of the Mandate. Several
teach or have taught in medical colleges, several are prolific writers for medical
journals, some are young and some are not so young but, by and large, the court
heard five days of excellent medical testimony concerning the issue of persistent
vegetative state, possible treatment options and how these may or may not have an
effect on Terry Schiavo. They were all well prepared, generally having reviewed all
of the available medical records, videos, etc. That is not to say, however, that
some of the testimony was more credible than other testimony as set forth hereafter.

The majority of the testimony before the court dealt with the current medical
condition of Terry Schiavo. Of course, it was important to determine that in order
for there to be valid opinions as to new treatments and its probable efficacy upon
her. Incidentally, the court early-on defined "new treatment" to include any
treatment that had not been attempted since it did not seem appropriate to foster a
debate as to whether or not a treatment discovered five years ago was in fact "new".
The video tapes reviewed by the court and which were featured prominently in the
testimony of the doctors were obviously directed to her present physical condition.

Three of the five doctors testified that Terry Schiavo was in a persistent
vegetative state, although Dr. Cranford felt it more appropriate to phrase it
permanent vegetative state which meant that the condition was irreversible. Two of
the doctors felt that she was not in a persistent vegetative state. These two sets
of opinions had little in common. Those who felt she was not in a persistent
vegetative state placed great emphasis upon her interaction with her mother during
Dr. Maxfield's examination and the tracking of a balloon. Those who felt that she
was in a persistent vegetative state felt that her actions were neither consistent
nor reproducible but rather were random reflexes in response to stimuli. However,
the court has not and will not make its decision or a simple head count but will
instead consider all factors.

At first blush, the video of Terry Schiavo appearing to smile and look lovingly at
her mother seemed to represent cognition. This was also true for how she followed
the Mickey Mouse balloon held by her father. The court has carefully viewed the
videotapes as requested by counsel and does find that these actions were neither
consistent nor reproducible. For instance, Terry Schiavo appeared to have the same
look on her face when Dr. Cranford rubbed her neck. Dr. Greer testified she had a
smile during his (non-videoed) examination. Also, Mr. Schlinder tried several more
times to have her eyes follow the Mickey Mouse balloon but without success. Also,
she clearly does not consistently respond to her mother. The court finds that based
on the credible evidence, cognitive function would manifest itself in a constant
response to stimuli.

Dr. Hammesfahr testified that he felt that he was able to get Terry Schiavo to
reproduce repeatedly to his commands. However, by the court's count, he gave 105
commands to Terry Schiavo and, at his direction, Mrs. Schindler gave an additional 6
commands. Again, by the court's count, he asked her 61 questions and Mrs. Schindler,
at his direction, asked her an additional 11 questions. The court saw few actions
that could be considered responsive to either those commands or those questions. The
videographer focused on her hands when Dr. Hammesfahr was asking her to squeeze.
While Dr. Hammesfahr testified that she squeezed his finger on command, the video
would not appear to support that and his reaction on the video likewise would not
appear to support that testimony.

The record is replete with the doctors disagreeing over what the videotapes
appeared to portray. For instance, was it a visual orienting reflex or was it
tracking. Was it a cognitive focus of the eyes or was it a startle response looking
to the sound. Perhaps the most compelling testimony was that of Dr. Bambakidis who
explained to the court the agony and soul-searching which he underwent to arrive at
his opinion that Terry Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state. He concluded
that all the data as a whole supports permanent vegetative state. While the others
may have gone through such an analysis, their testimony does not indicate that.

Another issue involved the piano music played via cassette tape in her room during
Dr. Hammesfahr examination. Dr. Maxfield testified she related to it and "tried to
sing". However, this music was played markedly louder than any other music or voice
commands of the doctors. It was probably louder than the handclasp or dropped
objects that always seemed to produce a startle reflex. Dr. Greer testified that the
length of the reflex depends on the direction of the stimulation.

Dr. Maxfield also felt that '02 CT Scan showed improvement in the quality of the
remaining brain matter and that one reason Terry Schiavo was not in a persistent
vegetative state was that she could swallow her own saliva and breathe on her own.
These views were not supported by any of the other doctors and Drs. Greer,
Bambakidis and Cranford strongly disagreed with his '02 CT Scan opinion. Dr.
Cranford further testified that saliva handling is from the brain stem, a reflex.

Viewing all of the evidence as a whole, and acknowledging that medicine is not a
precise science, the court finds that the credible evidence overwhelmingly supports
the view that Terry Schiavo remains in a persistent vegetative state. Even Dr.
Maxfield acknowledges that vegetative patients can track on occasion and that
smiling can be a reflex.

The real issue in this case, however, deals with treatment options for Terry
Schiavo and whether or not they will have any positive affect so as to
"significantly improve her quality of life". The treatment options essentially were
the vasodilatation therapy offered by Dr. Hammesfahr and the hyperbaric therapy
proposed by Dr. Maxfield. While none of the doctors are really involved in stem cell
therapy, it was discussed at great length by each of them. Perhaps one of the few
agreements between these experts is that stem cell research is currently at the
experimental stage and is years away from being accepted either medically or
politically. It would not appear from the testimony that this is a viable treatment
option at this time.

Hyperbaric therapy has been in use for more than a century. It is used abroad
far more than it is used domestically. Medicare recognizes only eleven procedures
involving hyperbaric therapy while Russia recognizes almost seven times that many.
Dr. Maxfield felt there was an 80% chance of improvement in Spect Scan results from
hyperbaric therapy. He has seen such with similar patients. Also, he felt there was
a significant probability Terry Schiavo would improve cognitive ability with
hyperbaric treatment. Drs. Greer, Bambakidis and Cranford have all referred patients
for hyperbaric therapy but none for this type of brain injury. They felt that such
therapy would have no affect on Terry Schiavo. It is interesting to note the absence
of any case studies since this therapy is not new and this condition has long been
in the medical arena.

Dr. Hammesfahr feels his vasodilatation therapy will have a positive affect on
Terry Schiavo. Drs. Greer, Bambakidis and Cranford do not feel it will have such an
affect. It is clear that this therapy is not recognized in the medical community.
Dr. Hammesfahr operates his clinic on a cash basis in advance which made the
discussion regarding Medicare eligibility quite irrelevant. A lot of the time also
was spent regarding his nominations for a Nobel Prize. While he certainly is a
self-promoter and should have had for the court's review a copy of the letter from
the Nobel committee in Stockholm, Sweden, the truth of the matter is that he is
probably the only person involved in these proceedings who had a United States
Congressman recommend him for such an award. Whether the committee "accepted" the
nomination, "received" the nomination or whatever, it is not that significant. What
is significant, however, and what undemises his creditability is that he did not
present to this court any evidence other than his generalized statements as to the
efficacy of his therapy on brain damaged individuals like Terry Schiavo. He
testified that he has treated about 50 patients in the same or worse condition than
Terry Schiavo since 1994 but he offered no names, no case studies, no videos and no
tests results to support his claim that he had success in all but one of them. If
his therapy is as effective as he would lead this court to believe, it is
inconceivable that he would not produce clinical results of these patients he has
treated. And surely the medical literature would be replete with this new, now
patented, procedure. Yet, he has only published one article and that was in 1995
involving some 63 patients, 60% of whom were suffering from whiplash. None of these
patients were in a persistent vegetative state and all were conversant. Even he
acknowledges that he is aware of no article or study that shows vasodilatation
therapy to be an effective treatment for persistent vegetative state patients. The
court can only assume that such substantiations are not available, not just
catalogued in such a way that they can not be readily identified as he testified.

Neither Dr. Hammesfahr nor Dr. Maxfield was able to credibly testify that the
treatment options that they offered would significantly improve Terry Schiavo's
quality of life. While Dr. Hammesfahr blithely stated he should be able to get her
to talk, he admitted he was not sure in what way he can improve her condition
although he feels certain her can. He also told the court that "only rarely" do his
patients have no improvement. Again, he is extremely short of specifics. Dr.
Maxfield spoke of a "chance" of recovery although he stated there was a significant
probability that hyperbaric therapy would improve her condition. It is clear from
the evidence that these therapies are experimental insofar as the medical community
is concerned with regard to patients like Terry Schiavo which is borne out by the
total absence of supporting case studies or medical literature. The Mandate requires
something more than a belief, hope or "some" improvement. It requires this court to
find, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the treatment offers such sufficient
promise of increased cognitive function in Mrs. Schiavo's cerebral cortex so as to
significantly improve her quality of life. There is no such testimony, much less a
preponderance of the evidence to that effect. The other doctors, by contrast, all
testified that there was no treatment available to improve her quality of life. They
were also able to credibly testify that neither hyperbaric therapy nor
vasodilatation therapy was an effective treatment for this sort of injury. That
being the case, the court concludes that the Respondents have not met the burden of
proof cast upon them by the Mandate and their Motion. Accordingly, it is

ORDERED AND AJDUDGED that the Motion for Relief from Judgment filed herein by
Robert and Mary Schindler, Respondents, be and the same is hereby denied.

In the event the Motion for Relief from Judgement is denied, the Mandate also
requires this court to follow the dictates of the prior Mandate of the Second
District Court of Appeal and "enter an order scheduling the withdrawal of life-
support". Accordingly, it is

FURTHER ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that Michael Schiavo, as Guardian of the Person of
Theresa Marie Schiavo, shall withdraw or cause to be withdrawn the artificial
life-support (hydration and nutrition tube) from Theresa Marie Schiavo at 3:00 p.m.
on January 3, 2003.

1,179 posted on 11/10/2003 12:00:05 PM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: Dante3
I don't have any trouble getting to it. Try the links below directly:

http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/Litigation.htm

The first one has the excerpts and reviews.

http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/Felos.htm

1,180 posted on 11/10/2003 12:00:41 PM PST by FR_addict
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To: nicmarlo
Note this from that newspaper article just above:

>> "For a few years, her family and husband, Michael, worked toward recovery. Then, he changed his mind. It was hopeless, he contended. She would not have wanted to live like this."

Read it again. HE changed his mind. So much for his preposterous, self-interested lie that she said she wanted to die. Michael made it up. His ENTIRE case for trying to kill her rests on this lie.

Michael is not exactly swift, but it didn't take him more than two or three months to figure out that he was the sole heir to more than a million dollars if he could get rid of Terri. From that moment he was overwhelmed with compassion towards her "wish" to die a horrible death by dehydration. One of the nurse's affidavits quoted his sentimental, tender feelings for his wife: "I'm going to be rich!"

1,181 posted on 11/10/2003 12:05:12 PM PST by T'wit
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To: Ohioan from Florida
Thanks! Fixed it...

07/19/82 Jodi sues Mr. Rask
09/07/88 Jodi sues Mr. Fletcher
03/03/89 Jodi sues Mr. Demoney
02/02/90 MS sues Dr. Igel
02/25/90 MS sues Dr. Prawer
05/22/90 MS sues Prudential Insurance
10/30/90 MS sues Dr. Neuhardt
05/20/91 MS ran stop sign
11/23/92 MS speeding
05/31/94 MS driving w/expired license
05/31/94 MS driving w/expired registration
08/29/96 Jodi speeding
02/05/01 Jodi speeding
08/19/02 MS failure to obey traffic device
1,182 posted on 11/10/2003 12:20:25 PM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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To: pickyourpoison
Your post piqued my curiosity about the facts of the Estelle Browning case (which family members were trying to kill her off), and I did a Google search. I haven't found the details I was looking for yet, but I did find this very interesting commentary by the Florida Catholic Conference written about the Browning ruling handed down on Sept 13, 1990. (Remember, Felos was Ms. Browning's attorney). Much of their concern over this ruling is being evidenced in Terri's case.
LINK: http://www.flacathconf.org/Publications/Comment/Comm1290.htm

The following are some excerpts:

The court depicts a glowing stereotype of the medical decision-making process in these cases. It recognizes the possibility of improper activity under the guidelines but says "we are loath to impose an cumbersome legal proceeding at such a delicate time in those many cases where the patient neither needs nor desires additional protection". The decision "is being made painfully by loving family members, concerned guardians or surrogates, in conjunction with the advice of ethical and caring physicians or other health care providers". No mention is made of the uncertainty of diagnosis; fiscal pressures on or antisocial attitudes of caregivers or families; bureaucratic and legal restrictions on what used to be good medical practice; or the growing bias for death in our society. In fact, the court says: "We are satisfied that the states interests [in prolonging life] do not out weigh the right of an individual to forego life sustaining measures".

==>SNIP

The court does not discuss the rules applicable to cases where the patient has never been competent, or while competent has never made any expressions of intention. The expansiveness of this decision, however, must give advocates of the disabled cause to be concerned about both extrajudicial decision-making and future rulings of both lower courts and this court.

==>SNIP

Where do we go from here? The Florida Supreme Court has in recent years construed the right of privacy to extend to the terminally ill "on the threshold of death", to minors and now to the mentally and physically incapacitated. This case seems to withdraw that protection the state formerly provided under the doctrine of parens patriae. It is said that this court is exercising a "new federalism" in order to protect the people of Florida from any moderating influences that might develop on the U.S. Supreme Court. The decision seems to exhibit a philosophy of excessive individualism that ignores any social action or societal role in the protection of unborn children, teenagers, the elderly, senile or the infirm. without a doubt, a patient's autonomy has to be protected, but this opinion ignores threats that incompetents or debilitated patients face in society today. There is almost an assumption that certain patients are better off dead than alive, and that if able to speak, would choose death.

==>SNIP

The Florida Supreme Court got this ball rolling with the Browning Case. Felos rejoiced in their decision. Michael Schiavo is more than happy to help keep that ball rolling. God help us.
1,183 posted on 11/10/2003 12:20:40 PM PST by iowamomforfreedom (Why is it illegal to starve an animal but not a human being?)
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To: iowamomforfreedom
God IS helping us. Everyone has to believe that!
1,184 posted on 11/10/2003 12:24:09 PM PST by atruelady
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To: daylate-dollarshort
Hey, DL & $$$..This got your attention.




Listen, everybody..we have enough ammo ((Informations))
to go on the attack, we need to get out friends in the media,radio, newspapers. Christian & Jewish, and all other religions that is against evil and Darkest to spread the word, via internet to other forum sites, and churches, we
need to email Congress (And remind them, election is less
than 11 months away...) play hard-ball....We need to Email
the White House, and DEMAND a full INVESTIGATION into M$, and this NEW WITC* WIFE, and there High Warlock Leader Felo$ & Felon$, Tell people at work,school,church,anywhere
and ask for there help....spread the news....

He haves 4 childrens, with 2-3 women , He kills little cats, He melted Terri wedding rings, He committed purjury,
....to start with.......

It's time we attack !!! Attack !!...
I will do this today...in my area....vet out
1,185 posted on 11/10/2003 12:30:21 PM PST by Orlando ( Don't call her Schiavo (Slave) anymore,please.)
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To: lonevoice; sweetliberty; Budge; Mo1; T'wit; Theodore R.; Chocolate Rose; Republic; Humidston; ...
Model Husband :

1. Prevents wife from receiving appropriate rehab/medical care.
2. Isolates wife from her family and friends.
3. Spends her money on lawsuits rather than for rehab/medical care.
4. Commits adultery.
5. Fathers illegitimate children.
6. Shacks up with new family....so he's only a pseudo-bigamist.
7. He put both of her cats to sleep.
8. He melted down her wedding rings in order to make himself a nice ring.

"Model Citizens" :

07/19/82 Jodi sues Mr. Rask (automobile accident) 
09/07/88 Jodi sues Mr. Fletcher (automobile accident) 
03/03/89 Jodi sues Mr. Demoney (automobile accident) 
02/25/90 MS sues Dr. Prawer 
05/22/90 MS sues Prudential Insurance 
10/30/90 MS sues Dr. Neuhardt 
05/20/91 MS ran stop sign 
11/23/92 MS speeding 
05/31/94 MS driving w/expired license 
05/31/94 MS driving w/expired registration 
08/29/96 Jodi speeding 
09/21/00 MS sues Dr. Igel 
02/05/01 Jodi speeding 
08/19/02 MS failure to obey traffic device 

1,186 posted on 11/10/2003 12:31:08 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Budge
Budge I sent you a private e-mail jsut now
1,187 posted on 11/10/2003 12:31:45 PM PST by Lone Voice in the hinterlands
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To: nicmarlo
Good job nic! Lord, spare me from model citizens! LOL!
1,188 posted on 11/10/2003 12:33:21 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
LOL!!!
1,189 posted on 11/10/2003 12:34:33 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: sweetliberty
Please check your e-mail I will be sending you a private e-mail as soon as this is posted.
1,190 posted on 11/10/2003 12:42:42 PM PST by Lone Voice in the hinterlands
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To: daylate-dollarshort
Maybe you haven't read the findings of fact in the Dept of Health and Florida Board of Medicine's investigations of Dr. Hammesfahr?

Death ghoul Felos couldn't have been too happy that an appeals court overruled his stooge, blind Judge Greer, and ordered Terri's feeding tube to be restored the first time Michael tried to starve her to death. Blind Judge Greer was forced to consider new evidence that Terri might not be in a PVS and could possibly benefit from therapy.

Just a mere few weeks before Blind Judge Greer would be hearing the new evidence, George Felos announced to the media that Hammesfahr "engaged in false, deceptive or misleading advertising" involving "a treatment that is contrary to current neurological knowledge" and had been charged by the Department of Health in an administrative complaint. "I can't see how anyone could believe that Dr. Hammesfahr's treatment could help Terri Schiavo when the state of Florida in essence considers it to be bogus," said attorney George Felos. But, what extremely relevant information did Death Ghoul Felos leave out of his media smear of Dr. Hammesfahr? How about the little fact that the complaint against Dr. Hammesfahr was pending investigation? There had been no decision and Felos saying that "the state of Florida in essence considers Dr. Hammesfahr's treatment claims bogus" was a bold faced lie? http://www.sptimes.com/2002/10/22/TampaBay/Schiavo_case_doctor_t.shtml

So, did the state of Florida's board of medicine investigation determine that Dr. Hammesfahr's treatment claims were "bogus", as Felos claimed? Here's what Death Ghoul Felos and Blind Judge Greer would rather you didn't know: Not only is this a lie, but the administrative judge, Susan Kirkland, in her 90 page findings of fact concluded that: "Dr. Hammesfahr is the first physician to treat patients successfully to restore deficits caused by stroke". Further, in her findings of fact, Judge Kirkland that Dr. Hammesfahr's treatment protocol and claims had been extensively peer reviewed by:

A. Diane Hartley, court recognized expert in Physical Therapy, testified that of the 242 that she and Dr. Alex Gimon were asked to analyze and evaluate, 221 had improved with their only treatment being that of Dr. Hammesfahr that was challenged in this complaint as "bogus".

B. Dr. Alex Gimon, court recognized expert in Neuropsychology and Brain Injury, testified that of the total study group of 332 of Dr. Hammesfahr's patients that Dr. Gimon evaluated, "most had marked imprvoement within the first 15 days of treatment" that the complaint had challenged as "bogus".

C. Judge Kirkland evaluated a published peer reviewed article about Dr. Hammesfahr's first 67 patients treated for stroke, most who had no improvements for over a year using conventional therapy. Yet, after undergoing treatment with Dr. Hammesfahr, "over 80% showed major improvement with the ability to do new activities around the house and in life that did not exist before starting treatment with Dr. Hammesfahr".

Contrary to the "bogus" claims made by the Felos trolls, the Florida state board of medicine and the Dept. of Health found absolutely no evidence that Dr. Hammesfahr's claims of treatment successes were anything other than astonishingly effective! Apparently Blind Judge Greer considers himself more of an expert in medicine than the Dept of Health and the Florida board of medicine.

1,191 posted on 11/10/2003 12:43:27 PM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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To: iowamomforfreedom
Well, this explains why the FL Supreme Court never heard the appeal from the Schindlers. It had already made up its collective mind in favor of "death with dignity" -- Schiavo-style. Now, though if the Schindler are appealing a unfavorable ruling from Baird and the appeals court to the Supreme Court, we know that the Supreme Court will reject the case again, thereby ruling against Terri and the governor. This FL Supreme Court is primarily against any Bush first and foremost. The fact that the Bushes have tried to help Terri is all they need to know. This court will say that Terri must die NOW. Then, can another law be written to address what the court striked down. Doubtful.

Were Terri to win before Baird and the appeals court, probably impossible in FL now, the Supreme Court would take the case and strike down Terri's Law. Will three more FL Supreme Court judges be voted on in 2004 -- yes and no plebiscites?
1,192 posted on 11/10/2003 12:46:47 PM PST by Theodore R.
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To: nicmarlo
Oh my. Too funny! Thanks for the much needed laugh today.
1,193 posted on 11/10/2003 12:47:31 PM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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To: sweetliberty
anyone ever catch Montel Williams show?
1,194 posted on 11/10/2003 12:50:10 PM PST by pickyourpoison
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To: Budge
I think FL has a higher birth rate than most state. However, it is No. 3 in rate of abortion, behind only CA and NY.
1,195 posted on 11/10/2003 12:52:48 PM PST by Theodore R.
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To: pickyourpoison
"anyone ever catch Montel Williams show?"

When is/was it on? I thought it was a late afternoon show.

1,196 posted on 11/10/2003 12:54:20 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Theodore R.
Baird is hearing proceedings in Terri's case today in Pinellas Co. The Bush attorneys say that the case should be in Tallahassee to accommodate the governor's schedule. It could be that Baird is looking for potentially national publicity for himself. Maybe he wants to be the new "Judge Ito." I believe that Baird, despite his "Republican" label will rule against Terri and Bush. Then the media will saw that "even a Republican judge" found the Republican governor in error!
1,197 posted on 11/10/2003 12:55:44 PM PST by Theodore R.
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To: All
House speaker Byrd defends law keeping brain-damaged woman alive

http://www.twincities.com/mld/tallahassee/news/breaking_news/7228703.htm
1,198 posted on 11/10/2003 12:57:25 PM PST by Chocolate Rose
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To: pickyourpoison; Budge; Pegita; cyn; Ladysmith; Calpernia; Babalu; floriduh voter; dandelion; ...
Never mind. Montel is starting right now. Seems to be on miraculous recoveries rather than specifically about Terri. Still should be worth watching.
1,199 posted on 11/10/2003 1:00:15 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Chocolate Rose; All
Thanks for posting this link, CR. From the article:

"Last week, Baird denied a motion by Bush's attorney, Kenneth L. Connor, to throw out Felos' suit. Connor contended that it was invalid because Bush had not been personally served and because it was not filed in Tallahassee where the governor is based.

Connor appealed Baird's decision Wednesday, triggering an automatic stay in the case until the issue is settled. A brief from the governor defending the constitutionality of the law was due Monday, but Connor filed the appeal instead."

1,200 posted on 11/10/2003 1:06:18 PM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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