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Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 8 -10
Various | November 7, 2003 | sweetliberty

Posted on 11/07/2003 7:54:47 PM PST by sweetliberty

(Thread 6 - November 8-10, 2003)
(Link back to thread 5 - Nov. 5-7)


Contained in Thread 4:

Link to article on Michael Schiavo from hometown newspaper, information on death by starvation and dehydration, information on hospice eligibility and hospice and medicare/medicaid fraud, e-mail address for Judge Greer, transcript of Larry King Live interview with Michael Schiavo and George Felos, Terri's address at the hospice and the address for the foundation, to send cards for Terri's birthday (December 3), transcript of O'Reilly interview with Kate Adamson, e-mail addresses for Florida legislature, transcript of Abrams Report interview with George Felos and Pam Anderson, transcription of Terri's bone scan, legalese for dummies version of Gov. Bush's motion to dismiss Sciavo's suit against the Constitutionality of Terri's Law, link to FatherOfLiberty's research on HBOT (Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy), links to ACLJ involvement in Schiavo case and Father Rob Johansen's daily update.

There are four other relevant posts that I want to highlight here in case anyone missed them or didn't get pinged. These are a general Terri thread troll alert, an especially thoughtful post about the sincere effort that FReepers are making in Terri's behalf, the Father's Love Letter , and remarks made by Jim Robinson on this issue and reposted here by lonevoice.


Click on pic for Terri's website


This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

There was a tremendous amount of information posted on the previous thread. For anyone who hasn't been following the daily threads, links to relevant posts and information from the previous thread are contained in the body of the present one. I have found that very helpful in trying to find something later. You people are doing a spectacular job of getting information out and also in helping to keep all of us updated here. What a great joint effort. This fight, to me, illustrates beautifully what Free Republic is about and what it means to be a FReeper. Way to go FRiends. Keep up the good work!


Latest threads On Terri's Case

Pro-Life Group Questions 'Quality of Life' Premise in Schiavo Case

Judge Lets Parents Challenge Custody of Terri Schiavo

Dean blasts governor over Schiavo case

Husband Must Defend His Guardianship of Terri Schiavo

Judge Bans Terri Schiavo's Parents From Legal Battle

Dean 'Appalled' That Florida Lawmakers Saved Schiavo

A Woman's Life Versus an Inept Press (Nat Hentoff on Terri Schiavo

Terri Schiavo Case: Gov. Bush Asks To Meet New Guardian

Terri Schiavo Case: Creditable Witnesses & the 1st Guardian

Judge Rejects Bush Effort in Schiavo Case


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: attorneyfromhell; buttout; daily; euthanasia; florida; forcesofevil; georgefelos; guardianfromhell; hino; merchantsofdeath; michaelschiavo; righttolife; schiavo; schiavothread; schindler; terri; terrischiavo; terrischindler
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To: sweetliberty
The forces of the world are balanced just so perfectly ... a slight mite of a bit to the impulsive side, but that is itself a mark of light and life.
141 posted on 11/08/2003 5:39:42 AM PST by bvw
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To: No More Gore Anymore
#139 -- great idea.

The frenzy of Michael S. to go to any length and to keep fighting to get Terri killed indicates that at best that he is not normal -- more likely he wants to make sure his attempt to murder her will never come to light.

142 posted on 11/08/2003 5:52:24 AM PST by Dante3
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To: Dante3
Oh, I am ceratin he is the one with brain damage. IMO, He is a classic narcistist, with an overly infatled sense of Ego, who is being fed by a anohter ego maniac ( felos) into self dstruction.

It seems to me he believes he is withnin his rights to kill someone who is in his way. There is no remorse. Frenzy is right, he is out of control. The longer he is in the spotlight the more he will show his true colors.

143 posted on 11/08/2003 5:58:06 AM PST by Diva Betsy Ross ((were it not for the brave, there would be no land of the free -))
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To: No More Gore Anymore
I agree - hearing him state on LKL that the only reason her parents are doing this is to make his life "hell" makes it pretty obvious what he is: a malignant narcissist. I would think that that statement had a lot of people cringing. He has no empathy.
144 posted on 11/08/2003 6:06:47 AM PST by Bluebird Singing
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To: sweetliberty
The only "Panzer" that I have heard of was Hitler's tanks. How do we get this Panzer report? I will be working on Veterans' Day.
145 posted on 11/08/2003 7:01:50 AM PST by Theodore R.
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To: pollywog
I posted that info
146 posted on 11/08/2003 7:03:11 AM PST by tutstar
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To: Ohioan from Florida; FL_engineer; sweetliberty
Ohioan: There's an insurance company with Jodi's name, run from their house, yet Michael is one of the directors for the agency and Jodi is not. Smell a little fishy here?

Most definitely! I didn't realize she ran her own insurance business out of her house.


FL_engineer: Oh, yea! And EVERY time MS or FELOS 'says' there is NO INSURANCE POLICY on Terri, remember they are not under oath when they say so. I don't believe it for one second!

Good point. Something Gov. Bush can ask on cross-examination; this might be an allowed question to ask because it would go toward motivation [to kill Terri]--a relevant question.

Why... even TERRI was employed at an INSURANCE company! [So she probably got a VERY GOOD deal on a whole life policy!]

Highly probable.

And even if she did NOT, I wouldn't put it past MS & Jodi to back-date a policy in Terri's name somehow with this company! As DIRECTOR of this agency, MS would certainly know HOW to do this!

Yes; I think it's a simple matter of "back-dating" a policy.....if you've got the secret codes or whatever necessary....and since its her own agency, she probably has the means, method, AND motivation to do so.

147 posted on 11/08/2003 7:04:06 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Ohioan from Florida
HEY all us blondes aren't bimbos.....LOL
148 posted on 11/08/2003 7:04:23 AM PST by tutstar
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To: msmagoo
This is one of the most ridiculous assessments of Terri's fight that I have ever read. I suspect that the author is either deceitful, naive, or just plain lacking in critical thinking. One thing for sure, she does not incorporate the facts of the case in her "death" analysis. Her shedding of tears over "separation of powers" is laughable. I suspect that his author believes in judicialy tyranny and will use "separation of powers" to bolster that view.
149 posted on 11/08/2003 7:08:25 AM PST by Theodore R.
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To: FL_engineer; msmagoo; sweetliberty
And G. ALRED of all people, even came out FOR Terri! I will transcript it soon.

I'm guessing: this is because her father was in a similar situation, as far as being helplessly ill. When asked her position on living wills, she said it's very important that people follow an individual's request about artificially keeping someone alive against the living will. When asked about would she/did she remove her father's feed tubes, she said NO, she wouldn't remove feeding tubes from her father. (I couldn't figure out if he was actually hooked up to them or not).

150 posted on 11/08/2003 7:11:51 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Wampus SC; cyn; sweetliberty

this site has a lot of info on the parties involved in Terri's case,,,check it out
151 posted on 11/08/2003 7:13:13 AM PST by tutstar
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To: daylate-dollarshort

Schiavo's wishes recalled in records

In court, family members on both sides recounted what Terri said she wanted.

By WILLIAM R. LEVESQUE, Times Staff Writer
Published November 8, 2003


It was a somber family gathering in the days after Michael Schiavo's grandmother died in 1988. Doctors had tried to revive the woman despite her written directive that she not be resuscitated.

As family talked at a luncheon after her death, someone recalled Terri Schiavo speaking her mind.

"Terri made mention at that conversation that, "If I ever go like that, just let me go. Don't leave me there. I don't want to be kept alive on a machine,"' Scott Schiavo, Michael Schiavo's brother, told lawyers years afterward.

As lawyers and the public debate Mrs. Schiavo's life, a look back at hundreds of pages of court transcripts reveals testimony largely forgotten in the national debate about her right to die.

That testimony helped a judge decide in 2000 that Mrs. Schiavo, left severely brain damaged after collapsing in 1990, would not want to be kept alive by artificial means.

Like almost everything in the case, recollections about Mrs. Schiavo's words are disputed. Some remembrances are called outright inventions.

For a woman who left no living will, all that is left are memories, many of which were not revealed until a decade after her collapse.

Two years after Mrs. Schiavo's heart stopped - due to a suspected potassium imbalance - causing the brain damage, her husband fought a medical malpractice battle in Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Court.

At the trial, nobody discussed Mrs. Schiavo's wish to die.

Michael Schiavo, fighting tears, told jurors that he wanted to care for his wife as long as he could.

"I believe in the vows that I took with my wife, through sickness, in health, for richer or poorer," Schiavo told jurors. "I married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that."

In the end, Schiavo and his wife received a total of about $1-million in a verdict against one doctor who treated Mrs. Schiavo and from a settlement with another doctor.

"Michael didn't say to the jury, "Oh, by the way, I intend to kill my wife next year,"' said Pat Anderson, an attorney representing Mrs. Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler.

George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, said, "It's true Michael never affirmatively said Terri would never want to be kept alive if there was no hope. Then again, he didn't lie. Nobody ever asked him the question."

In 1993, the year after the verdict, Michael Schiavo's wishes for his wife took a turn.

Schiavo said he had a conversation with a physician about continued infections his wife battled. Schiavo said a doctor, convinced Mrs. Schiavo couldn't regain consciousness, told him to leave a urinary tract infection untreated, allowing her to die.

Schiavo ordered the nursing home where his wife lived to stop treating her, but the nursing home refused and Michael Schiavo backed down.

Schiavo was later asked by lawyers representing his wife's parents, then seeking to remove him as his wife's guardian, why he tried to stop treatment.

"I was trying to make decisions on what Terri would want," Schiavo said in late 1993, adding, "She was my wife. I lived with her. We shared things. We shared a bed. We shared our thoughts. And one incident in particular ..."

He then recounted his memory of a train trip.

The couple traveled to Florida from Pennsylvania for vacation in the mid 1980s. But Mrs. Schiavo was reluctant to go because her grandmother was near death.

The grandmother helped care for Mrs. Schiavo's disabled uncle, a man who suffered severe brain damage in an accident.

On the trip, Michael Schiavo said his wife told him that she didn't want to live like the uncle, dependant on others.

"I would never want to live like that. I would want to just die," Schiavo recalled his wife saying.

Within days of that testimony, a doctor first presented him the idea of pulling his wife's feeding tube.

"This woman died four years ago," Schiavo said a doctor who examined his wife told him.

Schiavo recoiled at pulling the tube. "I couldn't do that to Terri," he said.

Felos said Schiavo still struggled with the idea.

By 1995, Schiavo began setting in motion a plan to have his wife's feeding tube removed, according to his testimony.

But the real catalyst, Schiavo said, was his mother's death in July 1997. His mother wanted no medication or food near the end of her life.

"She gave me that gift that it was okay to die," Schiavo later testified.

The next year, Schiavo filed the petition to remove his wife's feeding tube, leading to an inevitable courtroom showdown with Mrs. Schiavo's parents. A trial came in January 2000.

Schiavo opened the trial by recounting the train trip. Two or three other times in their marriage, Schiavo said, she made her opinions known to him.

"We would be watching TV ... a documentary would come on," he testified. "It would depict, you know, adults, children that are being sustained and kept alive by parents at home. People that had to be on ventilators. People getting tube feedings. Medications throughout. IVs.

"She made the comment to me that she would never want to be like that. Don't ever keep her alive on anything artificial," he said.

Then came Scott Schiavo, his brother, who recounted Mrs. Schiavo's words at the luncheon in Pennsylvania after her husband's grandmother died.

Joan Schiavo, the wife of Michael Schiavo's oldest brother, William Schiavo, was next to take the stand.

Joan and Terri Schiavo had become close friends in the mid 1980s. Joan Schiavo said she told her sister-in-law about a friend who was forced to end life support to an infant after health problems.

Terri Schiavo told her that she would have done the same thing for the baby if its life could not otherwise be saved, Joan Schiavo testified.

Joan Schiavo also heard other comments after she and Mrs. Schiavo saw a movie about someone who had an accident and was in a coma.

"We had stated that if that ever happened to one of us, in our lifetime, we would not want to go through that. That we would want it stated in our will we would want the tubes and everything taken out.

"She did not like the movie. Just the whole aspect of family and friends having to come and see their son or friend like that, she thought it was horrible."

Mrs. Schiavo's parents fought back. Her mother, Mary Schindler, said she discussed with her daughter the famous right-to-die case of Karen Ann Quinlan, back when the legal fight to take Quinlan off a ventilator was front-page news.

"If they take her off, she might die. Just leave her alone and she will die whenever," she said her daughter told her.

Felos introduced newspaper stories showing that the Quinlan case was front-page news when Terri Schiavo was 11 or 12 years old.

Mrs. Schiavo's former friend, Diane Meyer, recalled watching a movie about Quinlan in the summer of 1982 after they graduated high school.

"I remember one of the things she said is, "How did they know she would want this? How did they know she wouldn't want to go on?"' Meyer testified.

Circuit Judge George Greer later ruled that Mrs. Schiavo's feeding tube could be removed.

The judge said he was persuaded by testimony by Michael Schiavo. He said that testimony, combined with statements of other family members, was "clear and convincing evidence."

He discounted things Mrs. Schiavo might have said as a child about Quinlan.

In the eyes of the law, Mrs. Schiavo has already instructed family about her wish to die.

"I don't know if that is Terri's intent," Mary Schindler told Greer. "I would like my daughter to live until it's - she dies when God is ready for her."

152 posted on 11/08/2003 7:13:47 AM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: bvw; sweetliberty
a slight mite of a bit to the impulsive side, but that is itself a mark of light and life.

This reminds me of little children...very impulsive, but something that must be taught to be placed under self-control. Unfortunately, the hippie/feel good movement/psychobabble that ruled in the 70's, 80's, and 90's threw common sense out the window and we see, IMO, more and more young people/adults without this self-control.

153 posted on 11/08/2003 7:16:46 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Theodore R.
What is the definition of a "troll" on FreeRepublic? I don't think I've ever trolled but I might have without knowing it. LOL! But seriously, what's the official definition of a FR troll? Inquiring minds want to know.
154 posted on 11/08/2003 7:18:20 AM PST by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Saundra Duffy
I started hearing the word "troll" here a few weeks ago. It refers to liberals who come on board to discourage, thwart, and belittle conservatives from continuing with their battle to reverse the liberal political climate in the USA. We have seen some of these arguing for the starvation/dehydration of poor Terri Schindler.
155 posted on 11/08/2003 7:19:44 AM PST by Theodore R.
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To: Theodore R.

He sent a letter to the Gov (I believe) when they were considering Terri's Law...there are many things on the site about corruption of Terri's hospice and lots has been posted on Terri threads 'somewhere'.
156 posted on 11/08/2003 7:21:25 AM PST by tutstar
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To: sweetliberty
don't know if you saw this before, either, sweetliberty (you probably did...I'm just catching up still, I think):
From The Tampa Tribune
April 28, 2001

her husband believes she hears, sees and feels nothing.

Michael Schiavo's position goes against comments Brashers made when she called the Carrie Kirkland Show on WMTX, 101.7 FM, on Tuesday.

``I was the first girl that Michael Schiavo dated after his wife had her heart attack,'' Brashers said. Before he filed a lawsuit over his wife's condition, Brashers said, ``He was really into taking care'' of Terri Schiavo.

``He was a real loud guy, and as he would go through the nursing home he said immediately, as soon as he got near the door, her head was already looking at the door because she would recognize his voice.'' Brashers said.

She also said that Michael Schiavo told her his wife ``would start crying when he got ready to leave.''

But Brashers described another side to Michael Schiavo, saying he told her that his wife had ruined his life.

Brashers said she dated him about a year and that after the relationship ended, he stalked her at her workplace.

Robert Schindler, Terri Schiavo's father, said he learned of Brashers' comments Wednesday and hired a private investigator to track her down.

157 posted on 11/08/2003 7:21:40 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Theodore R.
Thanks for the info on trolling. That's something I wouldn't even know how to do. LOL! God bless you. By the way, I was busy yesterday and even into the wee hours with a political project and I missed Larry King Live. Were Terri's parents on? Thanks.
158 posted on 11/08/2003 7:25:56 AM PST by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: sweetliberty
And here's another, with a second woman involved with Michael; also talks about his fathering two children, as of 2001.

May 10, 2001

2nd Schiavo friend speaks

of The Tampa Tribune

CLEARWATER - A nurse who says she was close friends with Michael Schiavo has emerged as the latest witness in the fight over his wife's right to die. Trudy Capone's sworn statements echo those of a former girlfriend of Schiavo's who surfaced last month. But Schiavo's attorney contends neither woman is talking about Terri Schiavo's right to die when they quote her husband as having doubts about what to do for her.

Instead, both Capone and Cyndi Brashers Shook are referring to details of Terri Schiavo's care, according to George Felos, who represents Michael Schiavo.

``If Trudy Capone could say, `Michael Schiavo told me he didn't know what Terri's wishes were regarding life support,' don't you think it would be in her affidavit?'' Felos asked Wednesday.

But attorneys fighting on behalf of Terri Schiavo's parents to keep her alive contend Capone's statements bolster the argument that Schiavo has lied in court, first to obtain more than $700,000 for his wife's continued care in a 1992 medical malpractice case, and then to get permission to disconnect her feeding tube in a January 2000 trial.

Both Capone and Shook have said Schiavo's personality changed after he won money in the suit, including about $300,000 for losses connected to his wife's condition, according to court records.

She has been in a vegetative state since suffering a heart attack in 1990 at age 26.

Her husband has testified that prior to the heart attack, she spoke of not wanting to be kept alive if she were incapacitated with no hope of recovery.

Terri Schiavo's brain is gone, and she sees, feels and hears nothing, according to Michael Schiavo's doctor. But her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, say their daughter reacts to them during visits and could improve if provided therapy.

Both sides have accused the other of coveting an approximately $700,000 inheritance.

In a sworn affidavit filed Wednesday, Capone states, ``Michael confided in me all the time about Terri,'' and goes on to say, ``Michael never knew what Terri wanted.'' The affidavit does not state the context in which Schiavo
did not know his wife's wishes, and it does not specify when Capone and Schiavo, who are both nurses, shared what Capone characterizes as a close friendship.

Both women speak of being harassed by Schiavo after breaking off their relationships, and both state that Terri Schiavo seemed aware of her surroundings during the time they knew her.

Felos would not comment on Capone's statement that, since Terri Schiavo's illness, Michael Schiavo has fathered two children with another woman. Schiavo has acknowledged that he has, for years, been engaged to his current fiancee.

Bob Schindler said he and his wife are heartened that Capone came forward. In her affidavit, Capone said she wishes she had offered testimony sooner.

``I feel guilty because I did not want to get involved,'' the affidavit states.

Schindler said his family is also happy about a 2nd District Court of Appeal order Wednesday that virtually guarantees the appeals court will not give Schiavo permission to remove his wife's feeding tube for at least several weeks. The court said it will hear oral arguments June 25 on three cases regarding Terri Schiavo's fate.

Joseph Magri, one of a team of volunteer lawyers helping the Schindlers, said the court order not only gives the Schindlers time, but also in effect denies Felos' request for immediate permission to disconnect the feeding tube.

The court had allowed the tube to be disconnected last month. But a local judge ordered feeding resumed after the Schindlers sued Schiavo alleging intentional infliction of emotional pain.

159 posted on 11/08/2003 7:27:59 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Theodore R.
...but none of the articles has addressed a more troubling situation for our state and for our nation: that of imposing a personal belief on all the citizens of the state. Gema Hernandez

And that personal belief would be what? The right to life as so clearly stated in the Declaration of Independence? My thoughts on that.

Once a man and a woman get married, in the words of the church, the IRS and all civil institutions, a family is formed, “for this man this woman will abandon her parents.” Dr. Gema G Hernandez

Is that codified in civil law, Gema, or are you quoting the Bible? I thought you were against imposing personal beliefs on 'all the citizens of the state'?

What a crackpot!

160 posted on 11/08/2003 7:32:38 AM PST by TigersEye ("Where there is life there is hope." - Terri Schiavo)
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