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Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 8 -10
Various | November 7, 2003 | sweetliberty

Posted on 11/07/2003 7:54:47 PM PST by sweetliberty

TERRI'S FIGHT
(Thread 6 - November 8-10, 2003)
(Link back to thread 5 - Nov. 5-7)

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Contained in Thread 4:

Link to article on Michael Schiavo from hometown newspaper, information on death by starvation and dehydration, information on hospice eligibility and hospice and medicare/medicaid fraud, e-mail address for Judge Greer, transcript of Larry King Live interview with Michael Schiavo and George Felos, Terri's address at the hospice and the address for the foundation, to send cards for Terri's birthday (December 3), transcript of O'Reilly interview with Kate Adamson, e-mail addresses for Florida legislature, transcript of Abrams Report interview with George Felos and Pam Anderson, transcription of Terri's bone scan, legalese for dummies version of Gov. Bush's motion to dismiss Sciavo's suit against the Constitutionality of Terri's Law, link to FatherOfLiberty's research on HBOT (Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy), links to ACLJ involvement in Schiavo case and Father Rob Johansen's daily update.

There are four other relevant posts that I want to highlight here in case anyone missed them or didn't get pinged. These are a general Terri thread troll alert, an especially thoughtful post about the sincere effort that FReepers are making in Terri's behalf, the Father's Love Letter , and remarks made by Jim Robinson on this issue and reposted here by lonevoice.

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Click on pic for Terri's website

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This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

There was a tremendous amount of information posted on the previous thread. For anyone who hasn't been following the daily threads, links to relevant posts and information from the previous thread are contained in the body of the present one. I have found that very helpful in trying to find something later. You people are doing a spectacular job of getting information out and also in helping to keep all of us updated here. What a great joint effort. This fight, to me, illustrates beautifully what Free Republic is about and what it means to be a FReeper. Way to go FRiends. Keep up the good work!

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Latest threads On Terri's Case

Pro-Life Group Questions 'Quality of Life' Premise in Schiavo Case

Judge Lets Parents Challenge Custody of Terri Schiavo

Dean blasts governor over Schiavo case

Husband Must Defend His Guardianship of Terri Schiavo

Judge Bans Terri Schiavo's Parents From Legal Battle

Dean 'Appalled' That Florida Lawmakers Saved Schiavo

A Woman's Life Versus an Inept Press (Nat Hentoff on Terri Schiavo

Terri Schiavo Case: Gov. Bush Asks To Meet New Guardian

Terri Schiavo Case: Creditable Witnesses & the 1st Guardian

Judge Rejects Bush Effort in Schiavo Case

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TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: attorneyfromhell; buttout; daily; euthanasia; florida; forcesofevil; georgefelos; guardianfromhell; hino; merchantsofdeath; michaelschiavo; righttolife; schiavo; schiavothread; schindler; terri; terrischiavo; terrischindler
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To: Theodore R.
An attorney can do his/her very best, with all conviction of their heart, but still be out of their league as pertains either to a particular type of case or opposing counsel (and, in this case, I think both). We all have our limitations.....some are just naturals, others have to work harder to even come close. And I'm not slamming the attorney's intentions, just my observations from what I read in that opinion.
201 posted on 11/08/2003 9:12:23 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
And there are plenty of doctors who have testified in contradiction to the "one" neurologist.

One look at the videos of Terri would tell anyone of average intelligence that this neurologist's conclusions are wrong. The BS about setting up a situation to make her 'involuntary' movements appear responsive is ludicrous. You couldn't come up with tape like that from someone who was truly incognizant if you filmed for a thousand years.

202 posted on 11/08/2003 9:12:28 AM PST by TigersEye ("Where there is life there is hope." - Terri Schiavo)
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To: TigersEye
...and this......

Almost as soon as the procedures were discontinued, the Schindlers were informed of new evidence that they believe establishes that their daughter would either not have made that decision fourteen months earlier at the time the original order was entered, or that she would make a different decision at this time. On April 26, 2001, the Schindlers filed a motion for relief from judgment in the guardianship proceeding. That motion alleged that the Schindlers had discovered new evidence in the form of testimony from a new witness. According to the motion, this witness was a former girlfriend of Mr. Schiavo. She allegedly would testify that Mr. Schiavo told her that Mrs. Schiavo and Mr. Schiavo never discussed what Mrs. Schiavo's wishes would be in her present condition. The motion alleged that this testimony was contrary to Mr. Schiavo's testimony at trial, and that it might prove Mr. Schiavo committed perjury in the proceedings.

The Schindlers attached two affidavits to the motion. Neither of these affidavits was executed by the witness.Instead, the affidavits were given by Mr. Schindler and by a private investigator hired by Mr. Schindler, and contained hearsay allegations regarding what this potential witness told them.

[FN2] Technically, the notary stated in each affidavit that the witness "acknowledged" the "foregoing instrument." The notary did not use the normal language "sworn to or affirmed and signed before me."

Hmmmmmm......

203 posted on 11/08/2003 9:15:27 AM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: TigersEye
I completely agree with you, TigersEye....completely. I keep seeing that clip play, looking for a "vegetable." I see none. I see a person who's trapped in a body that only minutely reacts to her wishes...and that's enough to show she's not a brain-dead vegetable. I am now overcome with grief for her....she's in a prison in her body.
204 posted on 11/08/2003 9:17:04 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Calpernia
bump for later.
205 posted on 11/08/2003 9:19:25 AM PST by Calpernia (Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
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To: daylate-dollarshort; TigersEye
and now, perhaps, Gov. Bush will be given the opportunity to examine those witnesses and these gross errors in the "technicality" of law will not be overlooked. We must have every "t" crossed and every dot in its proper place, otherwise, the Schindlers' and their witnesses are not given the same benefit of the doubt as has been afforded MS, whose "word" is the Bible.
206 posted on 11/08/2003 9:20:05 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: daylate-dollarshort
It's interesting that the only hearsay evidence the court found admissable was Michael Schiavo's seven years late recollection that Terri said "she wouldn't want to live like that" after watching a tearjerk movie.
207 posted on 11/08/2003 9:22:15 AM PST by TigersEye ("Where there is life there is hope." - Terri Schiavo)
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To: nicmarlo
Most definitely! I didn't realize she ran her own insurance business out of her house.

The records show that she worked for Jerger & Sons 1999-2000 and remained employed there under the new name of Liberty American Ins Co in 2001. In 2002 she is no longer listed, however the same year Richard and Catherine show up as directors for Jerger & Centonze. Why would a 'big' family like this agree to lend their name and support to a new company with few assests unless it was family related?

http://www.sunbiz.org/corpweb/inquiry/corinam.html

Type in Jergers under Corporation Inquiry. Then click on Jergens & Sons and read the documents listed.

BTW....I'm aware that the name on the records is misspelled but the address is the same as those on the Real Estate records in an earlier post.

208 posted on 11/08/2003 9:23:11 AM PST by Krodg
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To: nicmarlo
Please list the other neurologists that have testified other than Maxfield and Hammesfahr who agreed with the above posted opinion as far as the damage to the cerebral cortex.
209 posted on 11/08/2003 9:24:25 AM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: nicmarlo; Budge; Pegita; cyn; Ladysmith; Calpernia; Babalu; floriduh voter; dandelion; ...
Y'all be sure and see this post of Ethan's on the old thread.

Co-sponsor of Terri's Bill in the House, Frank Attkisson, authored this article on the legal reasons for the need for intervention ofn Terri's behalf

210 posted on 11/08/2003 9:26:30 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: supercat
She also didn't say "No tubes for me!" as asserted by Felos in the Oct. 10th court hearing before Lazarra. Anyone know how to get a hold of these transcripts of the hearing typed up by the court reporter? Please help.
211 posted on 11/08/2003 9:28:09 AM PST by pc93 (A good site to visit is http://www.terrisfight.org . Oct. 15th 2pm death order must be stopped)
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To: Admin Moderator
Thank you.
212 posted on 11/08/2003 9:28:11 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: floriduh voter
The family takes stuff to Terri when they visit her.

I thought that cards and gifts were prohibited by MS?? no?

213 posted on 11/08/2003 9:30:04 AM PST by pollywog (Psalm 121;1 I Lift mine eyes to the hills from whence cometh my help.)
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To: nicmarlo; TigersEye
Don't feed the troll.
214 posted on 11/08/2003 9:30:50 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
I would like to see the complete article by Attkison
called As I See It.. Please refer me the link or provide me the article.

Regards.
215 posted on 11/08/2003 9:31:37 AM PST by pc93 (Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
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To: sweetliberty
bump
216 posted on 11/08/2003 9:35:55 AM PST by countrydummy
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To: daylate-dollarshort
Let's look at it this way....get a doctor on the stand who will testify concerning if any of their patients were ever able to do something in contradiction to what an x-ray or exam shows they should have be able to do. Ask the doctor, based on that "evidence," isn't it possible that that could ever happen to other patients in the future, despite what an x-ray/scan says? Hmmmmm.
217 posted on 11/08/2003 9:37:33 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: T'wit
68 - Great catch, T'wit!

Wouldn't you love to ask felos that?

218 posted on 11/08/2003 9:38:32 AM PST by Budge ( <>< .)
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To: Ethan_Allen
Ethan, can you respond to PC's post #215?
219 posted on 11/08/2003 9:38:37 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
I saw read that article....most excellent!
220 posted on 11/08/2003 9:38:43 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
Ethan's or the one by Attkisson? I would like to read the complete article by Attkisson.. please.
221 posted on 11/08/2003 9:39:47 AM PST by pc93 (Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
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To: Krodg
Will do.....and very interesting.
222 posted on 11/08/2003 9:39:50 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: TigersEye; daylate-dollarshort
It's interesting that the only hearsay evidence the court found admissable was Michael Schiavo's

Most interesting, isn't it, daylate? I'm so very glad you posted that opinion.

223 posted on 11/08/2003 9:41:26 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: floriduh voter
A "Judge" didn't step in and resume the feeding. IT WAS THE FLORIDA HOUSE, SENATE AND GOVERNOR BUSH. Just thought I'd correct the record on that very important point.

The comment about the judge was about the first removal.

224 posted on 11/08/2003 9:41:51 AM PST by Krodg
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To: pc93
I'm positive it was Atkinson's....I'll go look for the link.
225 posted on 11/08/2003 9:42:54 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: sweetliberty
But it's hungry! Have you no compassion? ;^)


226 posted on 11/08/2003 9:43:50 AM PST by TigersEye ("Where there is life there is hope." - Terri Schiavo)
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To: nicmarlo
It's not at the link anymore, but it was posted on FR, here: law shouldn't be used to take away life
227 posted on 11/08/2003 9:47:00 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: pc93
I inadvertently posted to myself, the article by Atkinson, see my post #227
228 posted on 11/08/2003 9:47:53 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
Apparently you didn't read it too closely. This opinion is from the Second District Cout of Appeal- not the Florida Supreme Court.

Actually, I believe that Ms. Anderson has done well with what she had to work with.

It is obvious from the case that the Schlinders' witnesses would not make their statements under oath and pain of perjury. It would have been a very simple matter for the Schlinders to subpoena them to testify rather than attempt to submit affidavits from Mr. Schindler and his PI.

If you are truly interested in the legal history of this case read the opinion of the fourth appeal in this matter issued June 6, 2003. It might very well change your opinion of the courts involved in this tragedy.
229 posted on 11/08/2003 9:48:17 AM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: TigersEye; sweetliberty
lol!
230 posted on 11/08/2003 9:49:11 AM PST by nicmarlo
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Comment #231 Removed by Moderator

To: Theodore R.; All
Thanks for the reminder, TR:

>>>"Bob Schindler has been having some heart and blood pressure problems in the last couple of weeks (one might guess as to the cause ...) .. So his doctors have ordered him to do nothing for a week. The Schindlers have tentatively rescheduled their Larry King appearance for next Friday, November 14." ~ Daily Update from Fr. Rob Johansen, posted 11/07/03<<<

Heavenly Father, we return to give You thanks that Mr. Schindler's doctors have prevailed .. grant rest unto Terri's Dad this week .. restore him with renewed vigor and encouragement as he and his family continue to seek the release of this mother's child from imprisonment. Protect the health of this family, I pray, O God, that they yet might celebrate the joy of Terri's victory over her torturous journey back to freedom. In the Name of Jesus, I pray, Amen ...

232 posted on 11/08/2003 9:50:57 AM PST by Pegita ('Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus, just to take Him at His Word ...)
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To: TigersEye
ROTFL!
233 posted on 11/08/2003 9:52:37 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: daylate-dollarshort
I believe that Ms. Anderson has done well with what she had to work with.

You would. She, through inadvertence and error, helped out your cause.

It is obvious from the case that the Schlinders' witnesses would not make their statements under oath and pain of perjury...

Is it? Do you know this as fact, or was there possibly error involved with the notary and others? I, for one, know that unintentional errors occur frequently and regularly in legal documents. Or are you now making assumptions based on what you perceive as "fact?"

Gov. Bush may now be able to ensure that these numerous legal errors are not repeated....and that, is doing very "well with what [one] has to work with." P.S., nothing will change my opinion of the Florida courts. They got too much press to sway my opinion to think anything good generally comes out of them, much as the Circus Court in California, which repeatedly gets its decisions overturned and handed back to them for gross errors in their opinions.

234 posted on 11/08/2003 9:56:42 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: patriot40068
That would be in the court records....darn, I wished I lived near there. I'd be trying to get as much info. as I could (and I'd buy a scanner, and post it all! : )
235 posted on 11/08/2003 9:57:40 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: pc93
On this page, but I don't know how to link to the specific post, which is #791. I noted in a later post that Felos made the whole thing up. He even put it in the present tense -- as if Terri were fully cognizant right now and able to make a reasoned choice to die horribly by dehydration. Remember, Felos has supernatural powers. He peers deeply into people's eyes and reads their innermost wish to die. Somehow, when he reads their mind and soul, none of them replies, "Up yours, George, I'm alive and want to stay that way." No, they all want to die. George says so.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1015038/posts?q=1&&page=751

236 posted on 11/08/2003 10:04:36 AM PST by T'wit
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To: supercat
But if the intention were simply to stop giving food and water, why not leave the tube in place?

As long as the tubes in place it would be easier to try to slip terri even some water. You could do it with anything like a turkey baster baby enema syring etc
237 posted on 11/08/2003 10:09:18 AM PST by fiesti
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To: nicmarlo
Don't follow your point.

Terri's brain scans indicate that her cerebral cortex no longer exists and has been replaced with spinal fluid. The Schlinder's neuological experts agreed with this.

The cerebral cortex is essential for consciousness, sight, hearing, coordinated movement, thought, emotion, perception, cognition and the concept of person and being.

238 posted on 11/08/2003 10:13:28 AM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: daylate-dollarshort
"In the initial adversary proceeding, a board-certified neurologist who had reviewed a CAT scan of Mrs. Schiavo's brain and an EEG testified that most, if not all, of Mrs. Schiavo's cerebral cortex--the portion of her brain that allows for human cognition and memory--is either totally destroyed or damaged beyond repair. Her condition is legally a "terminal condition."

Actually, this may not be true.

Please the study that I posted several weeks ago regarding recent research into the brain activity of those in a PVS.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1005899/posts

239 posted on 11/08/2003 10:15:30 AM PST by KosmicKitty (There are no atheists in the foxholes!!)
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To: nicmarlo
"GREAT FIND"

Trudy Capone, and Cyndi Brashers Shook, and Jodi Centzone

so far, that's 3 relationships, he said 2....

Under Oath....

"Both said MS changed AFTER the 1992 case..."

"Both WOMEN speak of BEING HARASSED BY MS after breaking off their RELATIONSHIPS"

"MS has FATHERED TWO (2) Children with another women."

May 10th, 2001.....

MS new child was born was borned on Oct 31st, @(approx)
2003.....




HMMMMMM !!!!?

240 posted on 11/08/2003 10:16:06 AM PST by Orlando (* Dec. 3rd is Theresa M. SCHINDLER Birthday * Don't call her Schiavo anymore,please.)
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To: fiesti
As long as the tubes in place it would be easier to try to slip terri even some water. You could do it with anything like a turkey baster baby enema syring etc

Yes, but do you agree that the real purpose of "removing the tube" is because withholding food and water from someone otherwise able to receive it would be too obviously barbaric?

241 posted on 11/08/2003 10:17:36 AM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: Theodore R.
"Peter, Dan, Tom, and Katie............... But then again the "trolls" are proud, stubborn people who believe in the false "right-to-die."


Yes, the "right to die." They certainly agree that the unborn, and even partly born have every "right to die."
Their values are so skewered.
242 posted on 11/08/2003 10:19:10 AM PST by Sasha152 (Sasha)
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To: TigersEye
Oh good grief! LOL
243 posted on 11/08/2003 10:20:42 AM PST by Ladysmith (Low-carbing works!! (223.0 (-37.6)))
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To: Budge
Felos makes a career of twisting words. Watching him for lies and misstatements is like following a horse around with a dust pan and a broom.
244 posted on 11/08/2003 10:21:33 AM PST by T'wit
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To: supercat
Yes, but do you agree that the real purpose of "removing the tube" is because withholding food and water from someone otherwise able to receive it would be too obviously barbaric?




Ya know its hard to say. You have to project yourself into MS and Felos's mind and I find it hard to do that
245 posted on 11/08/2003 10:21:46 AM PST by fiesti
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To: sweetliberty
Ellen Ratner?
246 posted on 11/08/2003 10:23:04 AM PST by Sasha152 (Sasha)
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To: T'wit
I was meaning does anyone know how to get the court reporter transcript of the Oct. 10th court hearing before judge Lazarra at the Federal Courthouse in Tampa.
247 posted on 11/08/2003 10:25:22 AM PST by pc93 (Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
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To: T'wit
I was meaning does anyone know how to get the court reporter transcript of the Oct. 10th court hearing before judge Lazarra at the Federal Courthouse in Tampa.
248 posted on 11/08/2003 10:25:54 AM PST by pc93 (Please visit http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/c/pc93/terri_schindler_life_ribbon_campaign.htm)
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To: Sasha152
Nope. Someone got her name, I think, and posted it last night. Jane, something or other maybe? (No, not Jane Hall).
249 posted on 11/08/2003 10:26:01 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Ohioan from Florida
Janie Weintraub. Oh yes. The criminal defense lawyer who never met a murderer she didn't love. It's one thing to defend someone, but when mainpulating the law, perverting justice, and above all, smearing victims, is praised as "doing their job" as a defense lawyers, it is disgraceful.
250 posted on 11/08/2003 10:26:18 AM PST by Sasha152 (Sasha)
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