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Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 8 -10
Various | November 7, 2003 | sweetliberty

Posted on 11/07/2003 7:54:47 PM PST by sweetliberty

TERRI'S FIGHT
(Thread 6 - November 8-10, 2003)
(Link back to thread 5 - Nov. 5-7)

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Contained in Thread 4:

Link to article on Michael Schiavo from hometown newspaper, information on death by starvation and dehydration, information on hospice eligibility and hospice and medicare/medicaid fraud, e-mail address for Judge Greer, transcript of Larry King Live interview with Michael Schiavo and George Felos, Terri's address at the hospice and the address for the foundation, to send cards for Terri's birthday (December 3), transcript of O'Reilly interview with Kate Adamson, e-mail addresses for Florida legislature, transcript of Abrams Report interview with George Felos and Pam Anderson, transcription of Terri's bone scan, legalese for dummies version of Gov. Bush's motion to dismiss Sciavo's suit against the Constitutionality of Terri's Law, link to FatherOfLiberty's research on HBOT (Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy), links to ACLJ involvement in Schiavo case and Father Rob Johansen's daily update.

There are four other relevant posts that I want to highlight here in case anyone missed them or didn't get pinged. These are a general Terri thread troll alert, an especially thoughtful post about the sincere effort that FReepers are making in Terri's behalf, the Father's Love Letter , and remarks made by Jim Robinson on this issue and reposted here by lonevoice.

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Click on pic for Terri's website

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This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

There was a tremendous amount of information posted on the previous thread. For anyone who hasn't been following the daily threads, links to relevant posts and information from the previous thread are contained in the body of the present one. I have found that very helpful in trying to find something later. You people are doing a spectacular job of getting information out and also in helping to keep all of us updated here. What a great joint effort. This fight, to me, illustrates beautifully what Free Republic is about and what it means to be a FReeper. Way to go FRiends. Keep up the good work!

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Latest threads On Terri's Case

Pro-Life Group Questions 'Quality of Life' Premise in Schiavo Case

Judge Lets Parents Challenge Custody of Terri Schiavo

Dean blasts governor over Schiavo case

Husband Must Defend His Guardianship of Terri Schiavo

Judge Bans Terri Schiavo's Parents From Legal Battle

Dean 'Appalled' That Florida Lawmakers Saved Schiavo

A Woman's Life Versus an Inept Press (Nat Hentoff on Terri Schiavo

Terri Schiavo Case: Gov. Bush Asks To Meet New Guardian

Terri Schiavo Case: Creditable Witnesses & the 1st Guardian

Judge Rejects Bush Effort in Schiavo Case

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TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: attorneyfromhell; buttout; daily; euthanasia; florida; forcesofevil; georgefelos; guardianfromhell; hino; merchantsofdeath; michaelschiavo; righttolife; schiavo; schiavothread; schindler; terri; terrischiavo; terrischindler
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To: FL_engineer; All
Thanks, I tuned it too late.

More on Terry Wallis, who emerged from a coma after 19 years, in the news today:

Coma patient Terry Wallis gets help with a drink from his mother Angelee Wallis at Stone County Nursing and Rehab Center in Mountain View, Ark, last July. Terry, who had been in a coma after a 1984 automobile accident, began talking in June 2003.

Foes in comatose debate find beliefs impossible to prove

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - On the surface, it seems so simple: Why end a brain-damaged Florida woman's life when an Arkansas man this summer emerged from a yearslong stupor and asked for a Pepsi?

But answers among doctors show how complex the Terri Schiavo question really is, especially when compared to Terry Wallis, who spoke in June for the first time in 19 years.

"Some people have tried to compare these two and say that he is proof that she can recover," said Dr. James Zini, the Wallis family doctor. "But you cannot prove that."

Schiavo is at the center of a battle among her parents, her husband and Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, who ordered a feeding tube returned to Schiavo's body after her husband won a court order that it be removed.

A chemical imbalance shut down her heart, causing brain damage that pushed her into what some doctors say is a vegetative state.

Wallis, meanwhile, suffered head injuries in a car accident and slipped into a coma for a few months before emerging into a long fog that ended this summer - though his brain function remains limited.

Doctors say that despite several similarities, the two cases have little in common medically.

"Her injury appears to be more significant than Terry's," Zini said.

In addition, the media's imprecise use of terms such as "coma" and "vegetative state" have unfairly blurred the lines between the two cases, said Dr. Michael Wienir, associate clinical professor of neurology at UCLA.

"These are complicated terms that deal with awareness of environment, cognitive capability and intellectual function," said Wienir, who consulted on the Wallis case at the end of the summer.

The American Academy of Neurology sets guidelines for states of consciousness. Wienir describes two separate scales for people with brain injury, one for responsiveness and another for consciousness or brain activity.

"Coma can be thought of as an on-off switch with a dimmer," he said. "The levels between on and off are awareness. But then, to be human, there must be cognitive ability, the ability to use language and think."

The awareness scale is used for a short-term diagnosis. If the person's only response to pressure is a reflex action and nothing else, he or she is in a coma. A patient in a "stupor" can be briefly aroused but is still not aware.

The consciousness scale is used to describe longer-term mental status. If the patient isn't arousable and not aware and doesn't follow normal sleep patterns, he or she is comatose.

Once the eyes open, he or she is said to have come out of a coma, but may remain in a "vegetative state," incapable of responding voluntarily. After a month, the term "persistent vegetative state" is used; after a year, "permanent vegetative state" may be the diagnosis.

"When a patient is comatose, the switch is off; when they're vegetative, the current is on but all the lamps are burned out," Wienir said.

A third status, "minimally conscious state," has been added recently to describe people who display inconsistent but clearly discernible evidence of consciousness.

Wienir has only seen Schiavo in home videos shown on television, but he believes she displayed at least minimal consciousness.

Wienir said Wallis was probably fully conscious almost immediately after coming out of his coma in the fall of 1984 and was simply too brain-damaged to communicate for some time.

Also, Wallis was placed on the anti-depressant Paxil just months before he began talking again, which Wienir suggested may have helped him overcome other hindrances to speaking.

"Neither Terri Schiavo now, nor Terry Wallis before he began to talk again, were in comas," Wienir said. "And my supposition is that Mrs. Schiavo is even a step above being vegetative, but she is in much worse shape than Terry. It's highly improbable that she would be rehabilitatable."

Still, some similarities are striking.
Both are 39 years old, suffered serious brain injuries as young adults and lived for more than a decade with their eyes open but their brains apparently closed to the world around them.

Both went from vibrant and attractive to middle-aged invalids with sagging facial features.

Schiavo has been on a feeding tube throughout. Wallis was on a feeding tube for the first three months after his accident. Doctors said he wouldn't take food by mouth, but his mother, Angilee Wallis, said she coaxed him to drink some broth on Thanksgiving Day 1984.

Both had family members who fought for them against doctors or other family, insisting they were responsive. For Wallis it was grunts at the mention of a car he didn't like. For Schiavo, it was her eyes following balloons and smiles after kisses from her father.

But medical experts in Florida have testified in Schiavo's right-to-die case that she is in a persistent vegetative state, which means she cannot possibly respond to the outside world voluntarily. Zini and other doctors who diagnosed Wallis were not convinced for many years that Wallis' utterances were voluntary.

The similarities even piqued the interest of Wallis' daughter, Amber, who was born just before his accident and has recently broken away from Wallis' estranged wife to participate in his daily care.

Angilee Wallis says Amber e-mailed Schiavo's parents, touched by their fight against Michael Schiavo, the husband who wants to remove Terri's feeding tube.

Angilee says she thinks parents know more than spouses about their children's well-being, although there are more legal bonds for spouses than in the parent-adult child relationship.

But Wienir and Zini, both of whom say they hope Schiavo keeps her feeding tube as long as her family wants it, said it is important to separate emotion from the medical facts.

Wallis' sister, Tammy Baze, was able to take that to heart.

"I never give up," said Baze, who was told by St. Louis doctors that she would need a heart and liver transplant and then found out she was fine just a few weeks before Wallis started talking again.

"But I couldn't really give an opinion on (Schiavo) because I'd have to know the person. Each one's different, and even the doctors can't know for sure whether they can recover."

Answers everywhere, proof impossible in debate over comas -
All sides in debate over comatose find beliefs hard to prove -
Media's imprecise use of terms such as "coma" and "vegetative state" have unfairly blurred the lines between the two cases, said Dr. Michael Wienir, UCLA associate professor of neurology, on deceptive, imprecise terms like'coma' and 'vegetative' state. "These are complicated terms that deal with awareness of environment, cognitive capability and intellectual function," said Wienir, who consulted on the Wallis case at the end of the summer.

701 posted on 11/09/2003 7:15:31 AM PST by msmagoo
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To: nicmarlo
True. We only know of a "Dr. Caplan" - and Joelee is not a Dr., is she? Maybe someone in touch with the Schindlers or Pat Anderson could clear that up through email.
702 posted on 11/09/2003 7:20:16 AM PST by msmagoo
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To: msmagoo
Dr. Wienir, who consulted on the Terry Wallis case, said this about Terri:

Wienir has only seen Schiavo in home videos shown on television, but he believes she displayed at least minimal consciousness.
703 posted on 11/09/2003 7:23:05 AM PST by msmagoo
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To: MVV
See post #610
704 posted on 11/09/2003 7:24:40 AM PST by mickie
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To: sweetliberty; All
Just posting a few older articles, in case these haven't been seen yet (sorry if it's a duplication).

Attorney claims a beating may have caused Schiavo's coma

An attorney for the husband of Terri Schiavo calls the allegations ''garbage.''
By WILLIAM R. LEVESQUE, © St. Petersburg Times
published November 13, 2002

A lawyer representing Terri Schiavo's parents said in a legal motion filed Tuesday that newly discovered evidence may suggest someone caused Mrs. Schiavo's persistent vegetative state in 1990 with a beating that broke several of her bones.

-----------------------------

Judge: Remove woman's feeding tube

Posted: November 22, 2002
By Diana Lynne

...In the words of an unnamed physician who reviewed the report at Anderson's request, "Somebody worked her over real good."

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Florida Woman to Be Allowed to Die Despite Family's Wishes

By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief
August 05, 2003

...Three physicians have testified that, based upon the bone scan, Terri appeared to have been physically assaulted. The injuries they identified included "trauma to her ribs, her pelvic area, L1 vertebrae, spine, both knees and both ankles...a broken femur and a broken back."

Felos and Michael Schiavo's doctors also dispute those claims.

"What that bone scan shows is...an accumulation of calcium deposits in the joints," Felos explained.

-----------------------------------

The Guardian

In 1998, Terri Schiavo's first guardian ad litem filed a report on her case. It makes for interesting reading today.

by Wesley J. Smith
11/04/2003

As of April 4, 1998, Terri's trust fund held $713,828.85 [he received $750,000 + an additional $350,000 for himself in 1993; in May 1998, Schiavo hired Felos, so in a period of 5 years' time, only $37,000 had been spent allegedly on Terri; subsequent to Schiavo hiring Felos, and within approx. 3 years, almost $680,000 has been spent]. "Thus," wrote Pearse, "Mr. Schiavo will realize a substantial and fairly immediate financial gain if his application for withdrawal of life support [tube-supplied food and water] is granted." (Schiavo now claims that there is only $50,000 left in the account, the bulk of the money having gone to pay his attorneys.)

705 posted on 11/09/2003 7:29:04 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Coral Snake
See my reply above.

Sherman was pro-life. Period.

When you whine and complain about the grevious material losses he inflicted on the South, where he single-handedly destroyed the idolatorous pillars of pride the pre-bellum South was unwisely built on ... all you all sound like Micheal Schiavo and his camp. Pride in material things is more important to you than life?

706 posted on 11/09/2003 7:30:13 AM PST by bvw
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To: msmagoo
We only know of a "Dr. Caplan" - and Joelee is not a Dr., is she?

No, she's not. But, I still can't find ANY Dr. Caplan's in Florida, except a pediatrician.

707 posted on 11/09/2003 7:30:19 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: mickie
bump
708 posted on 11/09/2003 7:30:35 AM PST by pickyourpoison
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To: Ohioan from Florida; msmagoo
Could it possibly be one of these doc's? (And I'm thinking more likely Peter Kaplan):

License : PY4229
Profession : Psychologist

Licensee Name : KAPLAN, PETER R.

License Status : CLEAR
Activity Status : ACTIVE
Expiration Date : 05/31/2004
Original Issue Date : 11/27/1989
Military Status : N
Has Discipline : N
Address of Record :
5969 CATTLERIDGE BLVD
STE 100
SARASOTA, FL 34232


License : PY3736
Profession : Psychologist

Licensee Name : KAPLAN,SCOTT MITCHELL

License Status : CLEAR
Activity Status : ACTIVE
Expiration Date : 05/31/2004
Original Issue Date : 12/04/1986
Military Status : N
Has Discipline : N
Address of Record :
1581 ROBERT CONLAN BLVD NE
STE 101
PALM BAY, FL 32905


License :
PY2334 Profession :
Psychologist

Licensee Name :
KAPLAN,SHELDONJAY


License Status : CLEAR
Activity Status : ACTIVE
Expiration Date : 05/31/2004
Original Issue Date : 03/29/1982
Military Status : N
Has Discipline : N
Address of Record :
3601 HENDRICKS AVE
JACKSONVILLE, FL 32207-5311

709 posted on 11/09/2003 7:42:40 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: msmagoo
"Greer is being watched - and he must follow the law or he will be overruled on appeal. He can't make it up as he goes along...Connors is too smart to let him."

Yes, but at this time, Connors isn't up against Greer. It is Baird, I believe, who denied the motion to dismiss the case against Jeb.

710 posted on 11/09/2003 7:42:49 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: msmagoo
"He's another Scott Peterson...minus the fishing trip"

He is eerily similar to Scott Peterson. The only difference is that in this case, it is the victim who is on trial and is facing the deatth penalty.

711 posted on 11/09/2003 7:48:33 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: No More Gore Anymore; Lone Voice in the hinterlands
Has anyone else seen this spreadsheet, or able to find another link to the same information?

This is probably the same source as Lone Voice, but here's a link: Terri's Medical Fund is Being Used To Facilitate Her Death

712 posted on 11/09/2003 7:56:03 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: TheSarce
Thanks to the FReepers who alerted me this morning!!! I did see the program and I thought it was pretty good basically. I thought Terri's brother came off very well. The part that made me furious was FELOS accusing the Schindler's of wanting money again. (After the money came in, that's when all the trouble started.) How could the Schindler's possibly have been "in it for the money"? It's the HINO and his evil twin Felos who are in it for the money! I wish the media would get that straight!!

They showed Felos' book and probably caused people to think he's just one of those book sellers that we all hate.

The discussion about the brain scan was interesting and not at all the way it was presented by the HINO and Felos on LKL. On LKL they showed that same brain scan and said it proved that Terri is dead already. But this guy who was apparently impartial said the brain scan shows she's "low functioning".

My husband reminded me that in 1999 doctors in Fresno told him if he had surgery to remove a tumor, he'd never walk again (best case scenario). In 2000 he had surgery in SF and he's walking around freeping. DOCTORS CAN BE WRONG!!!

Oh, they also mentioned on today's program that doctors are disagreeing with each other about Terri's condition. That was good that they finally admitted there is a difference of opinion.

Overall, I thought the program was good for Terri! And thanks again to the FReepers who gave us the heads up about this morning's program.
713 posted on 11/09/2003 8:01:21 AM PST by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: msmagoo
Let's keep reminding everyone that the videos taken by Terri's parents (illegally behind the HINO's back) are the reason she's alive today - it shows the world that the HINO and his evil twin are LYING about her condition. Oh, how pissed they must be that those videos were taken and distributed!! The ones they were distributing to the media make Terri look like a hideous freak. Thank God for those videos taken by people who love Terri. By the way, the pictures of Terri on this morning's CBS Good Morning were pretty darn good! THANK GOD!!!
714 posted on 11/09/2003 8:05:55 AM PST by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: FL_engineer
Thanks for the heads up about this morning's CBS program. I was able to watch it and overall I thought it was very good for Terri. Thank you so much!!
715 posted on 11/09/2003 8:10:51 AM PST by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: msmagoo
Great story about Terry Wallace. I knew about that, but had never actually read the story. Just goes to show that it CAN happen in Arkansas. Now if we could just get all these well-programmed RAT voters out of their coma here.....but that's another story altogether. *Sigh*
716 posted on 11/09/2003 8:11:01 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: nicmarlo
"What it is, is garbage," Felos said. "It's very convenient to allege anything. It's another thing proving it. It's all totally bogus."

Oh well, I guess that settles it then. Felos says it's garbage. I suppose in Greer's court, that is proof enough. Scary.

717 posted on 11/09/2003 8:14:17 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Saundra Duffy; sweetliberty; msmagoo; All
This are the two doctors who were sued by the Schiavos.

Professional Liability Closed Claims Search Results

This information is current as of 11/7/2003
The result of your search:

Provider Name Profession Department
File Number
Total Indemnity Occurrence Date Disposition Date County
IGEL, MD, G. STEPHEN PHYSICIANS 200220919 $250,000 09/21/2000 06/27/2002 PINELLAS
Provider Name Profession Department
File Number
Total Indemnity Occurrence Date Disposition Date County
PRAWER, JOEL STEVEN PHYSICIANS 199201653 $250,000 02/25/1990 07/10/1992 PINELLAS

718 posted on 11/09/2003 8:18:25 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: sweetliberty
I guess that settles it then. Felos says it's garbage. I suppose in Greer's court, that is proof enough.

This "Judge" is more outrageous than Felos.

719 posted on 11/09/2003 8:21:18 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
Attorney claims a beating may have caused Schiavo's coma

By WILLIAM R. LEVESQUE, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published November 13, 2002

A lawyer representing Terri Schiavo's parents said in a legal motion filed Tuesday that newly discovered evidence may suggest someone caused Mrs. Schiavo's persistent vegetative state in 1990 with a beating that broke several of her bones.

In addition, attorney Pat Anderson said the thermostat in Mrs. Schiavo's hospice room had recently been turned down to 64 degrees, indicating someone may be trying to induce pneumonia in a plot to kill her.

To make sure attorneys have enough time to investigate the allegations, the motion asks a judge to delay a pending decision on whether Mrs. Schiavo's feeding tube should be removed.

"My purpose here is to make sure all the facts are before the court," Anderson said Tuesday.

George Felos, an attorney representing Mrs. Schiavo's husband, Michael Schiavo, said the new allegations are ridiculous and are no reason to delay the judge's decision.

"What it is, is garbage," Felos said. "It's very convenient to allege anything. It's another thing proving it. It's all totally bogus."

Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer has scheduled a hearing Friday to discuss the motion with attorneys in a right-to-die case that has attracted national attention.

The judge recently concluded a hearing to take testimony from six doctors about Mrs. Schiavo's condition and whether new medical treatment holds any hope of improving her condition. He has said he expects to make a ruling by the end of this month.

Anderson said in the new motion that she recently discovered a 1991 bone scan, taken just over a year after Mrs. Schiavo's collapse from a heart attack, showing that Mrs. Schiavo had several bone fractures, including a compression fracture of a thigh bone.

The motion said three physicians have reviewed the record, including one who said, "Somebody worked her over real good."

Felos said the fact that Mrs. Schiavo had been in a paralyzed state and that she was being given antiseizure medication contributed to osteoporosis, which leads to degenerative bone loss and minute fractures.

"This is something the other side has had for three years," Felos said.


"Felos said the fact that Mrs. Schiavo had been in a paralyzed state and that she was being given antiseizure medication contributed to osteoporosis, which leads to degenerative bone loss and minute fractures."

A broken femur?? C'mon George. You're gonna have to do better than that.

720 posted on 11/09/2003 8:25:48 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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