Sullivan: Bi-Polar Nation (Free Republic, which is sometimes just as outrageous . . as DU)

The Sunday Times via andrewsullivan.com ^ | 11/09/03 | Andrew Sullivan

[RightWingAtheist]

I'm glad I'm a FReak and not a DUmmie :)

[WackyKat]

The clock is ticking isn't it, the line has been drawn in the sand, sides are being chosen and one side or the other has to win because living together is becoming impossible. Interesting times.

Stop trying to start Civil War 2. It isn't going to happen, and only a very foolish person would wish for such a terrible thing

[WaterDragon]

He has rewarded his far right flank not with fiery language but with constant contact, judicial appointments and kinder, gentler Christian boilerplate.

This is an unbelievably cynical view of President Bush, and one I don't agree with. But then, I often disagree with Sullivan.

[GeronL]

oh come on. Its going to happen sooner or later, hopefully it'll be over quick and we'll have a lot fewer liberals.

[america-rules]

There are some freeks here so doun't deny it :)

[Political Junkie Too]

Senator Miller remarked, "Dean knows as much about the South as a hog knows about Sunday." No, I don't know what that means either.

I suspect he's referring to the penchant of eating baked ham (Virginia Ham) during a Sunday family supper after going to church for Sunday Mass.

-PJ

[ClancyJ]

Yes and that bothers me. That is like saying "Yeah - it is an ok place but it has some real wackos". Makes you want to rush to check it out.

Proves they don't come here very often. In the past it was that way - there were times many of us were too embarrassed to tell our friends we posted here. I'll never forget the drug threads, the child porn (simulated) and the on and on battles to protect Bush from those supposedly on his side.

It will take a long time to build a credible reputation I guess.

But I don't see that much offensive stuff any more and look at all the positive activism.

[Political Junkie Too]

DU vs. FR

This is another example of how the "media" loves a horserace. In his attempt to show both sides of anything, he has to frame DU versus FR. However, the size of the two sites is incomparable, the quality of the opinions and writing is incomparable, and the impact that they have on public discourse is incomparable.

I'm afraid that comparing DU to FR does more to legitimize DU than hurt FR.

-PJ

[o_zarkman44]

Welcome to the new age of "political profiling." The one form of profiling that allows discrimination of the profilee to be tolerable.
Liberals vs conservatives, right wingers vs left wingers,
hawks vs doves, pro life vs pro choice, pro gun vs anti gun.
Pro free speech vs censorship. Southern rednecks with confederate flags on their pickup trucks vs lexus liberals, Democrats vs Republicans. Having the "right" profile identifys one with a group, regardless of other issues or concerns.

Jobs vs social agenda, wealthy vs poor. Capitalist vs Communist. What ever happened to middle of the road? Why is there so much focus on one issue voters?
An election should be like going to a car lot. We expect choices, and go for the best deal. Our election process is dull, predictable, and nobody will step over the line to expose individuality. There are rarely good deals, just a lot of pushy salesmen fighting to steal voters. And don't forget the "lemon factor". The lousy politician you can't seem to get rid of, is not self starting, and takes a lot of money but goes nowhere. Does this sound like a business plan of success?

[Consort]

But I don't see that much offensive stuff any more and look at all the positive activism.

I agree. Concerning them coming here, This DU post is interesting.

[sadimgnik]

There are very few posts of FR that are as whacked as that example from DU.

And when posts that nutso do show up they are generally pulled PDQ.

---

As was that post, on DU. In fact, it was pulled within hours ... but continues to circulate as if it was still there, due to the wonders of cacheing.

But that's not the point.

I find DU much less interesting (and useful) that FR ... but there is no doubt that there _are_ some whackjobs here, for whom reasoned debate is fine, except where (insert hotbutton issue of choice) is concerned.

Regards

Sadim

[Political Junkie Too]

What ever happened to middle of the road?

You can't have a "middle" of the road unless you define what's on each side of it first. That is what Bill Clinton called "triangulation." In triangulation, you pit one created group against another created group and then you take the middle ground. It helps if you can create an inflammatory name for one of the groups and a reasonable-sounding name for the other. The elite media are masters at this, often undermining the credibility of a group by calling them "so-called."

Is it any wonder that after eight years of Clinton triangulation, the country found itself split 50%-50% on most issues?

-PJ

[Sabertooth]

And you can find similarly wacko views on the right on such websites as Free Republic, which is sometimes just as outrageous in the other direction as Democratic Underground.

All is vanity. Such a pity.

If only two men could marry, all would be sunny. Unless it's your dad or your uncle or your brother, because then the babies would be weird.

[Fledermaus]

Yep, there's Andrew straddling the fence yet again. I find the moderators in FR have are equal in their limiting extremism on both sides. The DU does not. It usually only takes action on posters from the right.

This was similar to the old Compuserve forum days. The Dem forum frequently pulled our posts for just posting a different point of view, not for harrassment or breaking the rules while the GOP forum allowed the Dems to post almost anything they wanted.

I heard Sean Hannity on his show Monday 11/10 and he had a caller talking about Free Republic and Sean said he was a frequent lurker and that "they have some real wackos there as well".

I wish Sullivan and Hannity would, like Sullivan did with the DU post, point to what they are referring to. Hey, Andrew, post the quotes for the far right extremist you say are here.

But then Andrew calls O'Reilly "intolerant" without defining how and why? If he means intolerant of idiots that come on his show and use talking points without answering his questions, then yes. He's intolerant. And I like it.

But, as usual, Sullivan's use of "intolerant" usally is his code word for "gay hater" in his opinion.

[ClancyJ]

Veeerrru interesting. I can't imagine them being here and playing stupid games. Of course, they might just learn something.

Interesting that they think the liberal bias "call Bush stupid, names, etc." is the truth.

I see a wide, wide divide in this country. They cannot see what I see in Bush - or they see it and totally disrespect it. No matter, I know what I see and I see a leader, a fine man, someone I trust with the future of my grandchildren.

You know - when you grow up thinking a little corruption is ok, that the world owes you something, that you are better than those believing in religion and that it is get what you can while you can, you don't see the value in a man who has character, believes in American values, and will fight for it. You see nothing wrong with your leaders getting all they can however they can, you see nothing wrong with their corruption - you respect it.

They have turned away from the values of the midwest and think they are more elitist because they believe corruption is sophistication, they think they would be better off with the U.N. telling them when and when not to fight for their rights. They even come to respect dictators.

Now, how could a country be trusted in hands like these?

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

Bookmark.

[weegee]

There were some DUh supporters of the comments on that thread. That thread got pulled because it got legs. Even the Wall Street Journal went to "press" with that weblink still active.

[Coral Snake]

Would you believe that after razzing us for running a FReepathon last month that DU has in fact stolen the idea and is running a particularly SICK and HATFUL version of THE EXACT SAME THING THIS MONTH. (Their donation progress bar has a boxing glove at the end of it that hits our President in the mouth when their donation goal is reached.)
For any DUers reading this your little sick FReepathon wannabee has only reminded me to make my donation HERE for this month. ;c)

[backhoe]

The clock is ticking isn't it, the line has been drawn in the sand, sides are being chosen and one side or the other has to win because living together is becoming impossible. Interesting times.

I regret to say, that's the way it appears to me, as well.

I truly wish we could split the country in two-- the "Just leave me Aloners" on one side, and the "I want the government to be my Daddy" crowd on the other.

Unfortunately, the latter need the former's money to get what the think they need, so it cannot be done.

[sadimgnik]

There were some DUh supporters of the comments on that thread.

As there are often supporters of some of the sillier posts here. Lunatics attract like.

That thread got pulled because it got legs. Even the Wall Street Journal went to "press" with that weblink still active

If so, I stand corrected. I understood the link was already dead by the time the WSJ hit the streets.

And don't get me wrong: I am not defending DU. After all, I've been locked out of there on three occasions for expressing views that don't meet the prevailing consensus.

I much prefer here, where those who disagree with me are (generally) more likely to either try to convince me of my errors, or simply ignore me.

But I have to agree with Sullivan (not for the first time) that FR can also attract its foil-wrap crowd, as well as those that are a little less than rational about their favoured hobby-horses.

But that's what makes FR worth returning to.

Regards

Sadim