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Why Six Days? (Six Days of Creation, Literal Days or Era's.
Koinonia House ^ | 11/15/2003 | Dr. Chuck Missler

Posted on 11/15/2003 10:50:03 PM PST by bondserv

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The Book of Genesis presents a disturbing problem for many Bible-believing Christians. Did God really create the heaven and the earth in just six 24-hour days? How does a serious student of the Torah - the five books of Moses - reconcile the Genesis account with the "billions of years" encountered in the dictums of astronomy, geology, et al?
1 posted on 11/15/2003 10:50:05 PM PST by bondserv
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To: Elsie; AndrewC; jennyp; general_re; lockeliberty; RadioAstronomer; LiteKeeper; Fester Chugabrew; ...
Ping!
2 posted on 11/15/2003 10:51:34 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: bondserv
So do you think our Heavenly Father knew that so many Christians would have a disturbing problem with that book of Genesis?

Maybe the problem is reading without understanding. No where does it say how old the heavens or earth are.

1 day for the Heavenly Father is described as a thousand years for man.

3 posted on 11/15/2003 10:58:43 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: bondserv
A little logical sleight of hand...

And there are really only two world-views: either everything - including you - is the result of some kind of cosmic accident, or this is all the result of a deliberate design by a Designer.

Oh, but what he wants you to believe is far more specific than that, isn't it? Either everything - including you - is the result of some kind of cosmic accident, or the book of Genesis is absolutely literally true, right down to the six literal twenty-four hour days, as we ordinarily understand "days" to mean. And I'll lay money down right now that most people will reject that out of hand as a false dichotomy. There is a middle ground, inhabited by far more people than you will find on either end of that supposedly binary choice.

4 posted on 11/15/2003 11:01:37 PM PST by general_re (Me and my vortex, we got a real good thing....)
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To: bondserv
I hate to say it, but it all depends on what the meaning of the word "day" is. If your beliefs (or metaphorical license) can bend the meaning of "day" to mean billions of years, then the creation story sort of works. But science says it "really" took billions of years.

5 posted on 11/15/2003 11:04:16 PM PST by AZLiberty (Where Arizona turns for dry humor)
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To: bondserv
YEC SPOTREP
6 posted on 11/15/2003 11:06:40 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: bondserv
There are four basic questions that confront all of us: Who am I? Where did I come from? Why am I here? Where am I going when I die?

There are only three:

When's dinner? What is it? Where do I sleep?

7 posted on 11/15/2003 11:07:18 PM PST by Old Professer
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To: bondserv
Excellent article.

I truly believe that as true science advances (not science-like beliefs), it will point to Him.

Actually, all you have to do is look at the machine you are inhabiting. Did it happen by accident? It is a statistical impossibility.
8 posted on 11/15/2003 11:08:28 PM PST by dmanLA
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To: bondserv
I know very little about bible and even less about physics. I am just curious why Lord would express himself in terms of rotation of planet Earth? It is very difficult for me to believe that the six days of creation talk about time in terms of rotation of a single planet around it's axis.
9 posted on 11/15/2003 11:09:47 PM PST by bluejay
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To: bondserv
Science is all man-made; given enough rope man will always kill himself because of the sin nature. If Satan can cause the slightest doubt in the Bible, he has won. Why can the world not have been created in 6 days (literal days); it is only recently that this is doubted more, as man has become "smarter" and become more like gods.
If you cannot believe the literal words in Genesis; how can you believe the literal words of a virgin birth and the literal words of a resurrected Saviour--just what the devil wants you to question. If you question the last 2, you will get to ponder these questions with him (Satan) for eternity...just something to think about for now
10 posted on 11/15/2003 11:15:36 PM PST by rebel85
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To: bluejay
We are such a prize that He chose to become a MAN in order to save us. The Son of God, second person of the triune Godhead, lived on earth for 33 years.
11 posted on 11/15/2003 11:18:11 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: rebel85
Well said.
12 posted on 11/15/2003 11:19:39 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: bondserv
There are four basic questions that confront all of us

1) What happened to Chuck Missler's brain?

2) Why does anyone listen to his tomfoolery?

3) Does anyone actually buy the tapes and books hawked by this ignoramus?

4) What is that weird weed that's taking over my backyard?

13 posted on 11/15/2003 11:19:56 PM PST by WackyKat
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To: bluejay
Best way to have day and night. It is WRITTEN 1 day with the LORD is as a "THOUSAND YEARS" with man.
14 posted on 11/15/2003 11:20:11 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
So you go with a 12,000 year old universe?
15 posted on 11/15/2003 11:23:07 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: bondserv
Genesis is very clear, everything was created mature. The egg was in the chicken, the fruit was on the tree, and Adam did not have a childhood.
16 posted on 11/15/2003 11:30:11 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: AZLiberty
[5]
I hate to say it, but it all depends on what the meaning of the word "day" is.

Yup. I'm curious.
How long were each of the first two days? There was no sun until the third day.

Genesis:
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

17 posted on 11/15/2003 11:35:22 PM PST by Diddley
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To: MissAmericanPie
If Genesis is so clear, why does it recite two different, contradictory versions of the Creation?
18 posted on 11/15/2003 11:37:57 PM PST by WackyKat
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To: ambrose
Surprisingly, there are some cosmologists that are (again) beginning to suspect that the universe may be geocentric after all!

The lunatics apparently have begun running the asylum.
19 posted on 11/15/2003 11:38:01 PM PST by TheAngryClam (Don't blame me, I voted for McClintock.)
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To: bondserv
Not the universe, we are not told how old the universe is, what we are told is "HOW" long a day with the Lord is compared to a day with man.

That makes that future "LORD"S DAY a thousand years.

So science tells us this earth is far older than 12,000 + years old. What science has not and can not say is "WHEN" man in the "FLESH" was created. There were 8 days of creation, and we do not know exactly when that date began.

"Man" in the flesh is at least 6,000 and I have no difficulty accepting it might be up to around 12,000. This number does not change the "WHY" of "man in the flesh".

The "TIME" does not change the "WHY", and it is what science has proven that makes what many Christans believe look "ignorant".



20 posted on 11/15/2003 11:41:16 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: bondserv
This issue is not that great when we stop using ourselves and the world around us as markers.If we accept God as a
genetisist, then the ability to populate the earth in seven days is easy.....the DNA match between man and animals is so close that all things are possible. Within the space of 100 yrs man as we know him today will be capable of generating thousands of species in vitrio.
21 posted on 11/15/2003 11:44:58 PM PST by ijcr (Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ability.)
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To: bondserv; Campion; Hermann the Cherusker; narses; HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity; Catholicguy; ...
The account of God accomplishing his work in six days (and therefore resting on the 7th) is a prophecy of the Crucifixion and the subsequent entombment of Jesus. You are wasting your time chasing biblical interpretations as natural science and not as prophetic references to Christ's mission.
22 posted on 11/15/2003 11:45:35 PM PST by Romulus (Nothing really good ever happened after 1789.)
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To: bondserv
10. Any radio ham that has had to tune an antenna array knows about the 377 ohms.
11. It has been estimated at a staggering 1.071 x 10117 kilowatts per square meter!

What in the world do these mean?

By the way, 1.071 x 10117 = 10288.989 kW/ square meter. Why not just say that?

23 posted on 11/15/2003 11:46:00 PM PST by Diddley (Oh, what a web we weave, when ...)
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To: TheAngryClam
If I don't stop reading this Creation Science cr@p, I'm going to be in a lunatic asylum
24 posted on 11/15/2003 11:47:23 PM PST by WackyKat
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To: AZLiberty
Since Clinton I recoil at the word "is"; it's a shame.
I go with Einstein; God did not play dice with the universe.
25 posted on 11/15/2003 11:56:35 PM PST by Atchafalaya
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To: bondserv
Could someone decipher this for me?
One of the many advantages that 20th century science has given us is that, thanks to Dr. Albert Einstein's brilliant discoveries, we now know that time is a physical property and is subject to mass, acceleration, and gravity. We have come to realize that we live in a four-dimensional continuum properly known as "space-time." (This is what Paul seems to imply in his letter to the Ephesians!8) It is interesting that when one takes the apparent 10^12 expansion factor involved in the theories of the "expanding universe," that an assumed 16 billion years reduce to six days!

Not only have recent scientific articles highlighted the discoveries that the speed of light has changed over the centuries ... Say what?

26 posted on 11/15/2003 11:58:35 PM PST by Diddley (Oh, what a web we weave, when ...)
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To: Atchafalaya
[25]
< I go with Einstein; God did not play dice with the universe.

Actually, He did, according to quantum mechanics. Einstein was incorrect.

27 posted on 11/16/2003 12:01:48 AM PST by Diddley (Oh, what a web we weave, when ...)
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To: general_re
There is a middle ground, inhabited by far more people than you will find on either end of that supposedly binary choice.

That would be logically impossible. There is either belief or unbelief. There is no middle ground.

28 posted on 11/16/2003 12:04:09 AM PST by lockeliberty (Such is the final fruit of liberalism, that men, having lost liberty, also lose the love of liberty,)
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To: MissAmericanPie
I like that.

It makes witnessing a whole lot easier when you can say, "Just read right there, unless the context indicates otherwise, a straightforward reading leaves no ambiguity".

Most interpretive mistakes were made because the reader refused to take it for what it says. Hence Jesus always having to say, "Have ye not read?”
29 posted on 11/16/2003 12:07:15 AM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: keri
The universe eternally is being created
and there are 6 days.
Today is the first day of creation.
30 posted on 11/16/2003 12:09:40 AM PST by Allan
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To: dmanLA
Actually, all you have to do is look at the machine you are inhabiting. Did it happen by accident? It is a statistical impossibility.

Since it would be dishonest to make such an assertion without having done the math necessary to support such a conclusion, I invite you to show your calculations here. Be sure to clearly state the assumptions they're based on.

31 posted on 11/16/2003 12:10:05 AM PST by Ichneumon
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To: bondserv
There are other questions that arise from the Genesis narrative. When was the earth created? It seems to have preceded the rest of the universe. Surprisingly, there are some cosmologists that are (again) beginning to suspect that the universe may be geocentric after all!
HUH? Can you name 137 cosmologists (or one) who state that?

How did plants (3rd day) flourish without the sun's photosynthesis (4th day)?
And the answer is?

32 posted on 11/16/2003 12:11:32 AM PST by Diddley (Oh, what a web we weave, when ...)
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To: keri
ps.
On the Seventh Day
God rested
and man rampaged.
33 posted on 11/16/2003 12:11:58 AM PST by Allan
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To: Diddley
How long were each of the first two days? There was no sun until the third day.
Should be: How long were each of the first three days? There was no sun until the fourth day.
34 posted on 11/16/2003 12:13:59 AM PST by Diddley (Oh, what a web we weave, when ...)
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To: Romulus
Augustine also thought the millennium was upon him during his life because Constantine declared the Empire to be Christian.

A brilliant man, but his allegorizing has been proven to be in error by modern events, namely the miraculous regathering of Israel into the Land in fulfillment of prophecy that sets up events in the Book of Revelation.
35 posted on 11/16/2003 12:15:23 AM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: Romulus
Genesis 1:1 "and" 2 set the stage for what follows.

Genesis 1:1 Makes a statement of fact. What "FOLLOWS" describes an EVENT.

Why does "man in the flesh" ignore those two scriptures?

They are spoken to and given some description many other places, thus they cannot be ignored.

Check out how many times the direction of not being "ignorant" and about "WHAT" is given throughout the WORD. Now this as well points to Christ. The WHO, WHAT, WHY, WHERE, AND part of the WHEN.
36 posted on 11/16/2003 12:18:24 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
I don't have a Bible in front of me but I think it begins, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth and then the earth became void." Thus after He first created earth, earth became void. How many years did it take for the earth to become void and what/who caused it to become void? It's late and I'm tired but it seems to me that the 7 days did not start until after the earth became void.
37 posted on 11/16/2003 12:23:03 AM PST by candeee
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To: WackyKat
Chapter 2 is a recounting of chapter 1 with more detail associated with Adam and the place God moved him to, Eden.

Also God created again each of the animals before Adam's face so that Adam could name them, as well as to have no question in Adam's mind who the creator is.

P.S. Eve missed that display of creating power. Adam chose of his free-will to sin knowingly, Eve was deceived by Satan.
38 posted on 11/16/2003 12:25:40 AM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical.)
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To: candeee
Day 1 of Creation.

In the beginning
God created the heaven
and the earth.
And the earth was without form,
and void;
and darkness was upon the face
of the deep.
And the Spirit
of God
moved
upon the face
of the waters.
And God said,
LET THERE BE LIGHT:
and there was light.
And God saw the light,
that it was good:
and God divided the light
from the darkness.
And God called the light Day,
and the darkness
he called Night.
And the evening
and the morning
were the first day.
39 posted on 11/16/2003 12:26:10 AM PST by Allan
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To: WackyKat; MissAmericanPie; bondserv
If Genesis is so clear, why does it recite two different, contradictory versions of the Creation?

There's Hebrew literary devices called redundancy and parallel accounts that explain it quite well. Most people don't know anything about Hebrew literary devices so it's a common mistake to think there are two different, contradictory versions.

As the article stated, the Documentary Hypothesis has been thoroughly shredded by modern (actually it was 20th century) scholarship.

40 posted on 11/16/2003 12:27:58 AM PST by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: bondserv
Yeah, and Noah's flood was more a result of global warming than forty days and nights of rain. I have always been comfortable with not taking the Old Testament too literally. It may have been inspired by God, but it was written by man. In reference to time differences, I always questioned the 6-day creation, as well as Methusalem (sp?) living to what -- 3 or 4 hundred years of age?

I also can't see myself as a Christian going out and killing homosexuals as some scripture somewhere in the Old Testament commands.

The Old Testament says not to eat pork, but the New Testament says it's o-k now (I always attributed that to better cooking methods that discouraged disease). But that always made me wonder what other things have progressed beyond the Old Testament that no one addressed in the New Testament.

There are lot of things I question, but that's where faith steps in and I accept that I don't have to have all the answers in order to believe.

41 posted on 11/16/2003 12:28:44 AM PST by bjcintennessee (Don't Sweat the Small Stuff)
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To: bondserv
Chapter 2 is a recounting of chapter 1 with more detail

That's it, exactly. It's a common Hebrew literary device to do just that.

42 posted on 11/16/2003 12:30:54 AM PST by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: dmanLA
[8]
Actually, all you have to do is look at the machine you are inhabiting. Did it happen by accident? It is a statistical impossibility.

A statistical impossiblilty doesn't mean "impossible"; it means highly unlikely.

The statistical probability that the universe exists is: ((3.1628^2)/10) x 10^infinity (in other words, impossible). But we're here.

43 posted on 11/16/2003 12:36:08 AM PST by Diddley (Oh, what a web we weave, when ...)
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To: candeee
You are correct. We are not given the "TIME" from that Beginning to the "overthrow", to the DAYS of CREATION making the earth habitable for "flesh man". Also the words "replenish the earth" is used in Genesis 1:28.

Jeremiah 4:22-28 is not talking about Noah's flood.

IIPeter 3 the whole chapter gives much instruction and speaks about the world that then was, now, and yet future.

There are other places that describe those events that took place prior to "man in the flesh" being created.

Also note when you read after that 7th day, "REST" that there was no man to till the ground. So that would make it the 8th day that "the Adam" was created.


44 posted on 11/16/2003 12:38:02 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: bondserv
[38]
Also God created again each of the animals before Adam's face so that Adam could name them, as well as to have no question in Adam's mind who the creator is.

For my edificatioin, what is the Biblical reference for this?

45 posted on 11/16/2003 12:38:53 AM PST by Diddley (Oh, what a web we weave, when ...)
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To: bondserv
How does a serious student of the Torah - the five books of Moses - reconcile the Genesis account with the "billions of years" encountered in the dictums of astronomy, geology, et al?

Simple. The overwhelming evidence from God's second revelation, creation, shows that the universe is billions of years old. Hence, God's first revelation, Scripture, must not be speaking literally of 144-hour days. We're not talking evolution here, we're simply talking about the age of the universe.

Now whether Genesis 1 is fully allegorical or using a day/age convention is worth studying. Regardless, the most important part of the chapter is its first four words: "In the beginning, God...".

This article is literally full of factual misunderstanding of science. If you're going to refute what science has to say about creation, you'd better understand what it says first. Furthermore, virtually all of the claims posited in the text have been thoroughly refuted by science. For example, the "changing speed of light" argument has been rather trivially refuted by examining other properties of distant starlight, such as its Doppler shift.

Honestly I have more trouble with Noah's Ark than Genesis 1.

46 posted on 11/16/2003 12:50:17 AM PST by mcg1969
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To: WackyKat
Contradictory? Can you clarify what you mean?
47 posted on 11/16/2003 1:08:35 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Diddley; Atchafalaya
I go with Einstein; God did not play dice with the universe. -Atchafalaya

Actually, He did, according to quantum mechanics. Einstein was incorrect. -Diddley

The "jury is still out" on this issue. Quantum mechanics and relativity are both correct and both incorrect depending on what you happen to be examining [light, matter, gravity, time, etc.] and at what scale [galaxies, quarks, etc.]. Some future theory [such as superstrings] may reconcile and unify relativity and quantum mechanics. So maybe God didn't play dice with the universe...

48 posted on 11/16/2003 1:15:31 AM PST by MayDay72 (Free markets. Free minds.)
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To: rebel85; bondserv
Tonight I don't have the time to go into the fallacies of the article; however, I will leave you with just one thing to ponder. Supernova 1987a. I will be able to go into this in much more detail tomorrow.
49 posted on 11/16/2003 1:16:46 AM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: WackyKat
If Genesis is so clear, why does it recite two different, contradictory versions of the Creation?

If Moses was so smart, how come he wrote two different, contradictory versions of the Creation?


Wouldn't SOMEONE have 'noticed' that early on and 'evened' out the account?
50 posted on 11/16/2003 2:00:02 AM PST by Elsie (Don't believe every prophecy you hear: especially *** ones........)
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