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Seven million died in the 'forgotten' holocaust
Toronto Sun ^ | 11/16/03 | ERIC MARGOLIS

Posted on 11/16/2003 10:05:24 AM PST by freedom44

Five years ago, I wrote about the unknown Holocaust in Ukraine. I was shocked to receive a flood of mail from young Americans and Canadians of Ukrainian descent telling me that until they read my column, they knew nothing of the 1932-33 genocide in which Josef Stalin's Soviet regime murdered seven million Ukrainians and sent two million more to concentration camps.

How, I wondered, could such historical amnesia afflict so many? For Jews and Armenians, the genocides their people suffered are vivid, living memories that influence their daily lives. Yet today, on the 70th anniversary of the destruction of a quarter of Ukraine's population, this titanic crime has almost vanished into history's black hole.

So has the extermination of the Don Cossacks by the communists in the 1920s, the Volga Germans in 1941 and mass executions and deportations to concentration camps of Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians and Poles. At the end of World War II, Stalin's gulag held 5.5 million prisoners, 23% of them Ukrainians and 6% Baltic peoples.

Almost unknown is the genocide of two million of the USSR's Muslim peoples: Chechens, Ingush, Crimean Tatars, Tajiks, Bashkirs and Kazaks. The Chechen independence fighters who today are branded as "terrorists" by the U.S. and Russia are the grandchildren of survivors of Soviet concentration camps.

Add to this list of forgotten atrocities the murder in Eastern Europe from 1945-47 of at least two million ethnic Germans, mostly women and children, and the violent expulsion of 15 million more Germans, during which two million German girls and women were raped.

Among these monstrous crimes, Ukraine stands out as the worst in terms of numbers. Stalin declared war on his own people in 1932, sending Commissars V. Molotov and Lazar Kaganovitch and NKVD secret police chief Genrikh Yagoda to crush the resistance of Ukrainian farmers to forced collectivization.

Ukraine was sealed off. All food supplies and livestock were confiscated. NKVD death squads executed "anti-party elements." Furious that insufficient Ukrainians were being shot, Kaganovitch - virtually the Soviet Union's Adolf Eichmann - set a quota of 10,000 executions a week. Eighty percent of Ukrainian intellectuals were shot.

During the bitter winter of 1932-33, 25,000 Ukrainians per day were being shot or died of starvation and cold. Cannibalism became common. Ukraine, writes historian Robert Conquest, looked like a giant version of the future Bergen-Belsen death camp.

The mass murder of seven million Ukrainians, three million of them children, and deportation to the gulag of two million more (where most died) was hidden by Soviet propaganda. Pro-communist westerners, like The New York Times' Walter Duranty, British writers Sidney and Beatrice Webb and French Prime Minister Edouard Herriot, toured Ukraine, denied reports of genocide, and applauded what they called Soviet "agrarian reform." Those who spoke out against the genocide were branded "fascist agents."

The U.S., British, and Canadian governments, however, were well aware of the genocide, but closed their eyes, even blocking aid groups from going to Ukraine.

The only European leaders to raise a cry over Soviet industrialized murder were, ironically and for their own cynical and self-serving reasons, Hitler and Italian dictator Benito Mussolini.

Because Kaganovitch, Yagoda and some other senior Communist party and NKVD officials were Jewish, Hitler's absurd claim that communism was a Jewish plot to destroy Christian civilization became widely believed across a fearful Europe.

When war came, U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt and British PM Winston Churchill allied themselves closely to Stalin, though they were well aware his regime had murdered at least 30 million people long before Hitler's extermination of Jews and gypsies began. Yet in the strange moral calculus of mass murder, only Germans were guilty.

Though Stalin murdered three times more people than Hitler, to Roosevelt he remained "Uncle Joe."

The British-U.S. alliance with Stalin made them his partners in crime. Roosevelt and Churchill helped preserve history's most murderous regime, to which they handed over half of Europe in 1945.

After the war, the left tried to cover up Soviet genocide. Jean-Paul Sartre denied the gulag even existed.

For the western Allies, Nazism was the only evil; they could not admit being allied to mass murderers. For the Soviets, promoting the Jewish Holocaust perpetuated anti-fascism and masked their own crimes.

The Jewish people, understandably, saw their Holocaust as a unique event. It was Israel's raison d'etre. Raising other genocides at that time would, they feared, diminish their own. This was only human nature.

While today, academia, the media and Hollywood rightly keep attention focused on the Jewish Holocaust, they mostly ignore Ukraine. We still hunt Nazi killers, but not communist killers. There are few photos of the Ukraine genocide or Stalin's gulag, and fewer living survivors. Dead men tell no tales.

Russia never prosecuted any of its mass murderers, as Germany did.

We know all about the crimes of Nazis Adolf Eichmann and Heinrich Himmler; about Babi Yar and Auschwitz.

But who remembers Soviet mass murderers Dzerzhinsky, Kaganovitch, Yagoda, Yezhov and Beria? Were it not for writer Alexander Solzhenitsyn, we might never know of Soviet death camps like Magadan, Kolyma and Vorkuta. Movie after movie appears about Nazi evil, while the evil of the Soviet era vanishes from view or dissolves into nostalgia.

The souls of Stalin's millions of victims still cry out for justice.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: anniversary; communism; genocide; history; josefstalin; russia; soviets; stalin; ukraine; ussr
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1 posted on 11/16/2003 10:05:24 AM PST by freedom44
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To: freedom44
this titanic crime has almost vanished into history's black hole.

More like the media/academic memory hole. Inconveniences are treated as never happening.

2 posted on 11/16/2003 10:07:53 AM PST by Paul Atreides (Is it really so difficult to post the entire article?)
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To: freedom44
Revoke Duranty's Pulitzer

July 2, 1999

Mr. Seymour Topping
Administrator
The Pulitzer Prizes
Columbia University

Dear Mr. Topping:

As you may know from your days at The New York Times, Accuracy in Media has been critical of award of the Pulitzer Prize to Walter Duranty for many years. We urged Punch Sulzberger to return it. He said he would gladly do so if the Pulitzer Prize Committee withdrew it, and we twice suggested to Robert Christopher, the Pulitzer Prize administrator, that the prize be revoked.

Since you have covered the Soviet Union, I need not tell you the many reasons why the prize should be withdrawn, but for the benefit of others to whom I hope you will circulate this letter, allow me to list some of them.

Duranty was awarded the prize for his coverage of the Soviet Union in 1932, the year when the great famine of 1932-33 began in the Ukraine. His biographer, S.J. Taylor, calls it "the greatest man-made disaster ever recorded, exceeding in scale even the Jewish Holocaust of the next decade." Eugene Lyons said that Duranty privately put the number of dead from the famine as high as 10 million even though he was reporting that there was not and could not be a food shortage in the Soviet Union and that there was no starvation.

The chasm between what Duranty was reporting and what he said privately has been confirmed by other journalists who knew him. One of them was the late John Chamberlain, who reported that he heard Duranty casually mention in an elevator at the Times the millions who had died in the famine, something that Duranty had never reported.

In communicating the board's decision in November 1992 to reject our request that Duranty's prize be revoked, Mr. Christopher pointed out that the award did not constitute an endorsement of Duranty's overall career. It was only for "a specific set of stories." The Pulitzer Prize citation for the award to Duranty said his stories on Stalin's economic plans were "marked by scholarship, profundity, impartiality, sound judgment and exceptional clarity...."

The famine was planned by Stalin to destroy the opposition to his collectivization program in the Ukraine. The famine itself was one of Stalin's economic plans and Duranty's failure to report it truthfully refutes every word in that citation.

It would make good sense for the Pulitzer Prize judges take into account the reputation of the nominees for integrity. A Janet Cooke or Steven Glass might be capable of producing a story truly deserving of a prize, but it ought to undergo very careful scrutiny.

Would the judges who awarded the prize to Duranty in 1933 have done so had they known that the Soviet government was providing him with both a mistress and a car and giving him special privileges that were designed to influence his reporting. And they did. Duranty is reported to have told a U.S. embassy official in Berlin in 1931 that his dispatches always reflected the Soviet position.

Mr.Christopher also said that the Pulitzer board had decided that revoking the prize would be "inappropriate and set a bad precedent" and would be "second-guessing an earlier board." That board richly deserves to be second-guessed. There were a few reporters in the Soviet Union who told the truth about what was going on. The board disregarded those who were telling the truth. When the Duranty prize is revoked, as it must be, it could be given posthumously to Malcolm Muggeridge, one of the few who had the will to investigate the Ukrainian tragedy and the courage to report it.

Correcting errors is supposed to be a hallmark of good journalism. Awarding the Pulitzer Prize to Walter Duranty was obviously a monumental error, and it cries out for correction. Of course, it is not the only one that has ever been made. I don't recall the board refusing to accept the Washington Post's return of the prize awarded to Janet Cooke in 1981. Admitting that her selection was a serious mistake was the honorable thing to do. It is hard to conceive of the board allowing that award to stand had Ms. Cooke refused to give it up.

Revoking an award given 76 years ago would set a precedent, but it would be a very good one. It would signal that honesty and accuracy are indispensable requirements both for stories nominated for Pulitzer Prizes in the future and for those that have won them in the past.

If this is not done, the prize will lose respect. It will signal that the standards for integrity and honesty demanded of journalists are lower than those demanded of pop singers by the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences.

In 1992, the Academy revoked a 1989 Grammy awarded to a group called Milli Vanilli, when it was discovered that the "singers" did not actually sing their songs. They lip-synched the voices of others. Officials of the Academy made it clear that if there was reason to question any nomination they would investigate aggressively and take appropriate action.You should do the same.

Trust in journalists and the media is at a low ebb. One journalistic organization recently recommended that those who hand out awards to journalists pay more attention to the accuracy of the stories they honor. When flawed stories win prizes, respect for journalism plummets. It is an embarrassment to The New York Times and to the Pulitzer Prize board to have to put a note alongside Duranty's picture in its hall of fame, saying that his work has been discredited.

I have two suggestions. First, revoke those prizes, beginning with Duranty's, that have been exposed as seriously inaccurate. Second, require the nominees to submit not only the praise their stories have received, but also the criticism. This would help weed out the unworthy nominations and assist the judges in reaching sound decisions.

Sincerely yours,

Reed Irvine
Chairman
Accuracy in Media

3 posted on 11/16/2003 10:09:20 AM PST by Andy from Beaverton (I only vote Republican to stop the Democrats)
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To: freedom44
From NRO online.

Prize Specimen
The campaign to revoke Walter Duranty’s Pulitzer.



We will never know how many Ukrainians died in Stalin's famines of the early 1930s. As Nikita Khrushchev later recalled, "No one was keeping count." Writing back in the mid- 1980s, historian Robert Conquest came up with a death toll of around six million, a calculation not so inconsistent with later research (the writers of The Black Book of Communism (1999) estimated a total of four million for 1933 alone).














Four million, six million, seven million, when the numbers are this grotesque does the exact figure matter? Just remember this instead:

The first family to die was the Rafalyks — father, mother and a child. Later on the Fediy family of five also perished of starvation. Then followed the families of Prokhar Lytvyn (four persons), Fedir Hontowy (three persons), Samson Fediy (three persons). The second child of the latter family was beaten to death on somebody's onion patch. Mykola and Larion Fediy died, followed by Andrew Fediy and his wife; Stefan Fediy; Anton Fediy, his wife and four children (his two other little girls survived); Boris Fediy, his wife and three children: Olanviy Fediy and his wife; Taras Fediy and his wife; Theodore Fesenko; Constantine Fesenko; Melania Fediy; Lawrenty Fediy; Peter Fediy; Eulysis Fediy and his brother Fred; Isidore Fediy, his wife and two children; Ivan Hontowy, his wife and two children; Vasyl Perch, his wife and child; Makar Fediy; Prokip Fesenko: Abraham Fediy; Ivan Skaska, his wife and eight children.

Some of these people were buried in a cemetery plot; others were left lying wherever they died. For instance, Elizabeth Lukashenko died on the meadow; her remains were eaten by ravens. Others were simply dumped into any handy excavation. The remains of Lawrenty Fediy lay on the hearth of his dwelling until devoured by rats.*

And that's just one village — Fediivka, in the Poltava Province.

We will never know whether Walter Duranty, the principal New York Times correspondent in the U.S.S.R., ever visited Fediivka. Almost certainly not. What we do know is that, in March 1933, while telling his readers that there had indeed been "serious food shortages" in the Ukraine, he was quick to reassure them that "there [was] no actual starvation." There had been no "deaths from starvation," he soothed, merely "widespread mortality from diseases due to malnutrition." So that was all right then.

But, unlike Khrushchev, Duranty, a Pulitzer Prize winner, no less, was keeping count — in the autumn of 1933 he is recorded as having told the British Embassy that ten million had died. ** "The Ukraine," he said, "had been bled white," remarkable words from the journalist who had, only days earlier, described talk of a famine as "a sheer absurdity," remarkable words from the journalist who, in a 1935 memoir had dismayingly little to say about one of history's greatest crimes. Writing about his two visits to the Ukraine in 1933, Duranty was content to describe how "the people looked healthier and more cheerful than [he] had expected, although they told grim tales of their sufferings in the past two years." As Duranty had explained (writing about his trip to the Ukraine in April that year), he "had no doubt that the solution to the agrarian problem had been found".

Well, at least he didn't refer to it as a "final" solution.

As the years passed, and the extent of the famine and the other, innumerable, brutalities of Stalin's long tyranny became increasingly difficult to deny, Duranty's reputation collapsed (I wrote about this on NRO a couple of years ago), but his Pulitzer Prize has endured.

Ah, that Pulitzer Prize. In his will old Joseph Pulitzer described what the prize was designed to achieve: " The encouragement of public service, public morals, American literature, and the advancement of education."

In 1932 the Pulitzer Board awarded Walter Duranty its prize. It's an achievement that the New York Times still celebrates. The gray lady is pleased to publish its storied Pulitzer roster in a full-page advertisement each year, and, clearly, it finds the name of Duranty as one that is still fit to print. His name is near the top of the list, an accident of chronology, but there it is, Duranty, Times man, denier of the Ukrainian genocide — proudly paraded for all to see. Interestingly, the list of prizewinners posted on the New York Times Company's website is more forthcoming: Against Duranty's name, it is noted that "other writers in the Times and elsewhere have discredited this coverage."

Understandably enough, Duranty's Pulitzer is an insult that has lost none of its power to appall. In a new initiative, Ukrainian groups have launched a fresh campaign designed to persuade the Pulitzer Prize Board to revoke the award to Duranty. The Pulitzer's nabobs do not appear to be impressed. A message dated April 29, 2003 from the board's administrator to one of the organizers of the Ukrainian campaign includes the following words:

The current Board is aware that complaints about the Duranty award have surfaced again. [The campaign's] submission…will be placed on file with others we have received. However, to date, the Board has not seen fit to reverse a previous Board's decision, made seventy years ago in a different era and under different circumstances.

A "different era," "different circumstances" — would that have been said, I wonder, about someone who had covered up Nazi savagery? But then, more relevantly, the Pulitzer's representative notes that Duranty's prize was awarded "for a specific set of stories in 1931," in other words, before the famine struck with its full, horrific, force. And there he has a point. The prize is designed to reward a specific piece of journalism — not a body of work. To strip Duranty of the prize on the grounds of his subsequent conduct, however disgusting it may have been, would be a retrospective change of the rules, behavior more typical of the old U.S.S.R. than today's U.S.A.

But what was that "specific set of stories?" Duranty won his prize " for [his] dispatches on Russia especially the working out of the Five Year Plan." They were, said the Pulitzer Board "marked by scholarship, profundity, impartiality, sound judgment and exceptional clarity…."

Really? As summarized by S. J. Taylor in her excellent — and appropriately titled — biography of Duranty, Stalin's Apologist, the statement with which Duranty accepted his prize gives some hint of the "sound judgment" contained in his dispatches.

""Despite present imperfections," he continued, he had come to realize there was something very good about the Soviets' "planned system of economy." And there was something more: Duranty had learned, he said, "to respect the Soviet leaders, especially Stalin, who [had grown] into a really great statesman.""

In truth, of course, this was simply nonsense, a distortion that, in some ways bore even less resemblance to reality than "Jimmy's World," the tale of an eight-year-old junkie that, briefly, won a Pulitzer for Janet Cooke of the Washington Post. Tragic "Jimmy" turned out not to exist. He was a concoction, a fiction, nothing more. The Post did the right thing — Cooke's prize was rapidly returned.

After 70 years the New York Times has yet to do the right thing. There is, naturally, always room for disagreement over how events are interpreted, particularly in an era of revolutionary change, but Duranty's writings clearly tipped over into propaganda, and, often, outright deception, a cynical sugarcoating of the squalor of a system in which he almost certainly didn't believe. His motivation seems to have been purely opportunistic, access to the Moscow "story" for the Times and the well-paid lifestyle and the fame ("the Great Duranty" was, some said, the best-known journalist in the world) that this brought. Too much criticism of Stalin's rule and this privileged existence would end. Duranty's "Stalin" was a lie, not much more genuine than Janet Cooke's "Jimmy" and, as he well knew at the time, so too were the descriptions of the Soviet experiment that brought him that Pulitzer.

And if that is not enough to make the Pulitzer Board to reconsider withdrawing an award that disgraces both the name of Joseph Pulitzer and his prize, it is up to the New York Times to insist that it does so.

*From an account quoted in Robert Conquest's The Harvest of Sorrow.
** On another occasion (a dinner party, ironically) that autumn Duranty talked about seven million deaths.

— Mr. Stuttaford is a writer living in New York.
4 posted on 11/16/2003 10:10:44 AM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: freedom44
I forgot to write about the 3 to 4 million that Lenin starved to death in 1921-1922.
5 posted on 11/16/2003 10:12:17 AM PST by Andy from Beaverton (I only vote Republican to stop the Democrats)
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To: freedom44
Adding to the evidence for the fact that communism was the bloodthirstiest cult in human history is the possibility that Mao did the same to as many as 65 million Chinese.
6 posted on 11/16/2003 10:12:47 AM PST by Nubbytwanger
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To: Nubbytwanger
The slaughter by the Communists is talked about too infrequently.
7 posted on 11/16/2003 10:15:50 AM PST by freedom44
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To: freedom44
Bump.
8 posted on 11/16/2003 10:16:08 AM PST by RightOnline
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To: freedom44
About twenty-five years ago, I taught school with a Ukranian woman. She told me that millions had been starved to death because Stalin said there were too many Ukranians. She also told me how some of her relatives had been transported to Siberia in the middle of winter and had been left there with just a shovel.

When she was a child, her father had made a favorable comment about the West, and her family had been forced to flee the Ukraine with the clothes on their backs.

If I had not know this woman, I would not have heard about this tragedy. Why history has overlooked it, I do not know.

9 posted on 11/16/2003 10:21:51 AM PST by Essie
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To: Paul Atreides
More like the media/academic memory hole. Inconveniences are treated as never happening.

Well, yes. Because the COMMUNISTS perpetrated it. Don't want to fill the budding leftist students with the TRUTH, would they?

10 posted on 11/16/2003 10:22:46 AM PST by karen999
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To: Kozak
I try to imagine the enormity of this famine and cannot.You can google and find the writing of Gareth Jones.He did tell the story.Stalin's 5 year plan of agrarian reform caused the starvation .

Communism is an evil that young people don't recognize.It appeals to their idealism.The evils are tied to a leader,Stalin,Castro,Mao,Pol Pot,Kim.It is not just the leader..it is the Communism.
11 posted on 11/16/2003 10:24:14 AM PST by MEG33
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To: freedom44
Everyone, each one of us, should buy and read this book,
so that there should never be any doubt:


12 posted on 11/16/2003 10:24:50 AM PST by Petronski (Everybody calm down . . . eat some fruit or something.)
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To: freedom44
But Ed Asner, who has said he'd like to portray Stalin in a movie some day, thinks Stalin is "misunderstood".

This must all be anti-Stalin propaganda to him.

13 posted on 11/16/2003 10:25:11 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: freedom44
Five years ago, I wrote about the unknown Holocaust in Ukraine. I was shocked to receive a flood of mail from young Americans and Canadians of Ukrainian descent telling me that until they read my column, they knew nothing of the 1932-33 genocide in which Josef Stalin's Soviet regime murdered seven million Ukrainians and sent two million more to concentration camps.

My family was directly affected by this atrocity. My grandfather was a Kulak. He escaped, through Europe, and arrived at America in the late thirties.

14 posted on 11/16/2003 10:27:27 AM PST by Lazamataz (PROUDLY SCARING FELLOW FREEPERS SINCE 1999 !!!!)
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To: MEG33
As a former communist I can say that it is an ideology predicated on murder.

It is based on class anger, avarice and jealousy. Combine the three emotions, give it philosophical basis and a gun and you get events such as the Ukranian slaughter.

I could go on, but this is at the core of this ideology.
15 posted on 11/16/2003 10:27:42 AM PST by lavrenti ("Tell your momma and your poppa, sometimes good guys don't wear white." The Standells)
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To: freedom44
Perhaps a new word is needed, people have been led to believe there was only one Holocaust.
16 posted on 11/16/2003 10:27:52 AM PST by nkycincinnatikid
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To: nuconvert
But Ed Asner, who has said he'd like to portray Stalin in a movie some day, thinks Stalin is "misunderstood".

Ed Assner is completely, merrily, mad.

17 posted on 11/16/2003 10:28:14 AM PST by Lazamataz (PROUDLY SCARING FELLOW FREEPERS SINCE 1999 !!!!)
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To: freedom44
It's rarely mentioned, because it was a communist that did this. Communist-inspired genocides are ignored by the socialist scumbags in the media - wouldn't want the sheeple to get a glimpse of what is in store if the Left ever gains total control, now would we?
18 posted on 11/16/2003 10:29:32 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (I would be considered quite a catch in some circles... Crop Circles...)
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To: Petronski
I have that book. It's always on my coffee table, in full display for any leftist relatives that come visit...
19 posted on 11/16/2003 10:31:27 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (I would be considered quite a catch in some circles... Crop Circles...)
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To: Kozak
We will never know whether Walter Duranty, the principal New York Times correspondent in the U.S.S.R., ever visited Fediivka. Almost certainly not. What we do know is that, in March 1933, while telling his readers that there had indeed been "serious food shortages" in the Ukraine, he was quick to reassure them that "there [was] no actual starvation." There had been no "deaths from starvation," he soothed, merely "widespread mortality from diseases due to malnutrition." So that was all right then.

The New York Times has been an apologist for Communism since it's inception.

20 posted on 11/16/2003 10:31:40 AM PST by Lazamataz (PROUDLY SCARING FELLOW FREEPERS SINCE 1999 !!!!)
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To: Lazamataz
"Ed Assner is completely, merrily, mad."

I wish that was true.
Unfortunately, I'm afraid he's sane and really convinced
that the U.S. IS the Great Satan, and Stalin was a great guy, as is Castro.
21 posted on 11/16/2003 10:34:57 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: Lazamataz
I like that quote of Anser's. Maybe he can set the record straight if this movie is ever made that the man murdered his wife, had Ho Chi Minh ghost write some of his most important works.

That's two interesting facts regarding this man. I think what? Murdered 20 million, enabled Hitler to start WW II, and gleefully sold out "comrades" from Mao from time to time for political expeidence and cash.

He also was a facsist in every sense of the word. That "socialism in one country" business of the 1930s was lifted from the Italians.

And yet the left claims this guy and his politcs as their own. Amazing.

Oh, and he killed more Jews than Hitler. Would have exterminated them (Doctor's Plot) but fortunately had a stroke and croaked.

Busting rocks in Hell with his soul brother Dolf.
22 posted on 11/16/2003 10:35:32 AM PST by lavrenti ("Tell your momma and your poppa, sometimes good guys don't wear white." The Standells)
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To: Petronski
Thanks for the book
23 posted on 11/16/2003 10:37:29 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: freedom44
Bump for later referencing. This looks like a good days worth of reading material from the library, and a worthy subject to read. I was unaware of it until now as well.
24 posted on 11/16/2003 10:38:18 AM PST by KineticKitty (We have enough youth. How about a fountain of SMART?)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Trust me, if the Left ever takes control, this is what you'll get.

Ever since the Jacobins this is the kind of crap they pull.
25 posted on 11/16/2003 10:38:39 AM PST by lavrenti ("Tell your momma and your poppa, sometimes good guys don't wear white." The Standells)
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To: Petronski
I have it. Given that history, why would anyone be surprised many Ukrainians welcomed the Germans as liberators and some even joined to wehrmacht and SS.
26 posted on 11/16/2003 10:40:20 AM PST by 1066AD
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To: lavrenti
Preaching to the choir, man. I'm pretty sure I'm on the list of "Those who will be put up against the wall when the revolution comes" - if they can catch me, that is...
27 posted on 11/16/2003 10:40:37 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (I would be considered quite a catch in some circles... Crop Circles...)
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To: freedom44
Kaganovitch, the "wolf" of the Kremlin.
28 posted on 11/16/2003 10:41:03 AM PST by tet68 ( Patrick Henry ......."Who fears the wrath of cowards?")
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Hmm, we got a few here who still needs to hear the song.
29 posted on 11/16/2003 10:42:41 AM PST by lavrenti ("Tell your momma and your poppa, sometimes good guys don't wear white." The Standells)
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To: freedom44
The British-U.S. alliance with Stalin made them his partners in crime. Roosevelt and Churchill helped preserve history's most murderous regime, to which they handed over half of Europe in 1945.

Neville Chamberlain is widely criticized for his appeasement of Hitler and the resultant rise of Nazi Germany. Roosevelt & Chuchill's appeasements of Stalin allowed the USSR to become a superpower when it should have been swept into the dustbin of history shortly after WWII. Evil dictators thrive when good nations turn a blind eye to their atrocities.

The progressive left has a problem condemning the iron hand of socialism because they want the power of the state to be viewed as a good thing and any curbs on that power as obstructions to their utopian dreams. Communism and Fascism have proven that one party's utopia is the holocaust of the masses.

30 posted on 11/16/2003 10:43:09 AM PST by eggman (Social Insecurity - Who will provide for the government when the government provides for all of us?)
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To: lavrenti
True enough... I recommend the book in post 12 to everyone and anyone. A very "enlightening" read...
31 posted on 11/16/2003 10:43:16 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (I would be considered quite a catch in some circles... Crop Circles...)
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To: 1066AD
Had it not be for the racial policies of the Nazis, Hitler may have won the war.

The very fact the Germans were welcomed initially as liberators by practically everyone in that jailhouse of nations was an indicator of how evil the Stalinst regime was.
32 posted on 11/16/2003 10:46:33 AM PST by lavrenti ("Tell your momma and your poppa, sometimes good guys don't wear white." The Standells)
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To: freedom44
BUMP
33 posted on 11/16/2003 10:47:25 AM PST by Michael81Dus
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To: eggman
Churchill was well aware of Stalin. Had no choice.

You should read about his complicated dealings with Spain during the war; they are indicative of the conflicts with his government--and himself.

As for Roosevelt? Two words: Alger Hiss.
34 posted on 11/16/2003 10:48:16 AM PST by lavrenti ("Tell your momma and your poppa, sometimes good guys don't wear white." The Standells)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
The Secret World of American Communism may say a thing or two about what our citizens did.
35 posted on 11/16/2003 10:51:53 AM PST by lavrenti ("Tell your momma and your poppa, sometimes good guys don't wear white." The Standells)
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To: freedom44
Hollywood's Missing Movies. CBS probably isn't interested either.
36 posted on 11/16/2003 10:56:56 AM PST by P.O.E.
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To: lavrenti
I wish you could speak to the left in the universities.The youth may listen.The professors still clinging to the 60s will never change.Progressive is the fashionable word for socialism/communism now.
37 posted on 11/16/2003 10:58:40 AM PST by MEG33
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To: freedom44; Andy from Beaverton; Kozak; Nubbytwanger; RightOnline; Essie; Paul Atreides; karen999; ..
This is a fascinating subject and one that is, quite intentionally, minimized.

On September 24, 1986, William F. Buckley, Jr's FIRING LINE (a PBS program) ran Robert Conquest's HARVEST OF DESPAIR, a 1983 television documentary. The program was broadcast on FIRING LINE because, according to New York Public Broadcasting affiliate WNET's director of public affairs broadcasting, Peter Foges, it was "technically deficient," of "dubious quality" and failed to meet PBS's "production standards" and therefore WNET refused to run it. Only when Buckley devoted his program to it did it get an airing in New York. Difficulty in getting Public Broadcasting air time was also experienced, for the same reasons, throughout the US.

The substandard production values, the film was produced in Canada with assistance from Canada's national film board, became harder and harder to allege after the film was nominated for a 1986 Academy Award and began to win first place prizes from various international forums.

Those of us who saw the film can attest to it's excellence.

38 posted on 11/16/2003 11:03:29 AM PST by caltrop
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To: MEG33
I would not be allowed, to be honest.

Speaking as a former university-based leftist, of course.
39 posted on 11/16/2003 11:03:55 AM PST by lavrenti ("Tell your momma and your poppa, sometimes good guys don't wear white." The Standells)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
"Witness" by Whittaker Chambers is another book to read.You can google and find"Forward in the form of a letter to my children".He exposed Alger Hiss and was never believed by the elites, who adored Hiss.The infiltration of our government by the Communists during and after WW2 is frightening.
40 posted on 11/16/2003 11:08:08 AM PST by MEG33
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To: freedom44
...BUMP...
41 posted on 11/16/2003 11:10:19 AM PST by MayDay72 (Communism kills. Free markets feed.)
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To: lavrenti
It is amazing how many young conservatives are unaware so spread the word here!Are you a red"diaper baby"?
42 posted on 11/16/2003 11:10:42 AM PST by MEG33
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To: freedom44
The genocide(s) in Stalin's Soviet Union were preceded by firearms prohibition. Armed humans would prefer to die fighting than starvining to death in a state-orchestrated famine.


http://www.jpfo.org

43 posted on 11/16/2003 11:12:25 AM PST by society-by-contract
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To: freedom44
Worthwhile site to know, to throw in the face of Leftist.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
44 posted on 11/16/2003 11:15:04 AM PST by FreedomPoster (this space intentionally blank)
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To: Essie
Why history has overlooked it, I do not know.

"History" has overlooked it because historians and journalists tend to be socialists or communists. They protect their own.

45 posted on 11/16/2003 11:15:04 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: Petronski
Everyone, each one of us, should buy and read this book, so that there should never be any doubt:


Below is a good review of The Black Book of Communism:


http://www.jpfo.org/wolfe-blackbook.htm

46 posted on 11/16/2003 11:15:49 AM PST by society-by-contract
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To: caltrop
The VHS is available on Amazon.com. I just ordered one. Thanks for the info.
47 posted on 11/16/2003 11:18:13 AM PST by mollynme (cogito, ergo freepum)
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To: lavrenti
I understand that both Churchill and Roosevelt had to work to build consensus within the government and with the people before taking action. That's one advantage that dictatorships will always have over republican governments. Consensus is not required for action when one party holds all the cards.

Sometimes we must negotiate with evil to survive. Where our leaders in government and the media failed was in making the people aware of the evil we were bargaining with at the time. The communists were indeed deeply rooted in the media and the government at high levels. The fact that this story is so "new" shows the hold that they still have.

48 posted on 11/16/2003 11:22:50 AM PST by eggman (Social Insecurity - Who will provide for the government when the government provides for all of us?)
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To: mollynme
Glad to know it's still available. I taped it at the time but haven't looked at it in a number of years and, once I do, may need to order another copy.
49 posted on 11/16/2003 11:26:07 AM PST by caltrop
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To: MEG33
I've heard of that book, but never read it.

However, as a kid, I had a socialist uncle who defected to Cuba, and he sent me constant streams of propaganda, communist texts, books on Marxism/Leninism, and various left-wing guerilla warfare manuals - It was pretty fascinating for a young kid to read this stuff. I learned to read russian a little in order to digest some of the stuff that wasn't in english LOL

Then, researching on my own, I began looking closer at history, and I was able to see clearly that not only was Communism evil, but was able to see how amazing they were at manipulation of the masses - it scared me, in fact...

I became, much to the disappointment of my uncle, a fervent anti-communist, and it was really his fault - the "too-good-to-be-true" stuff he was sending me made me look closer, and that is what did it - looking closer.
50 posted on 11/16/2003 11:31:12 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (I would be considered quite a catch in some circles... Crop Circles...)
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