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To: neverdem
Interesting read, thanks for posting! If I understand the author's thesis correctly, it devolves back to the old adage that a firearm is simply a tool, and that what is significant is the user and the usage, not the tool itself. Certainly people prosecuted for carrying rudimentary weapons such as chains and fakeries such as cap guns indicate that the real issue is other than the physical item.

The root of the pernicious notion that protection of one's person is a duty to be arrogated only to "society" and not to the individual is curious - it is, I think, simply a manifestation of the notion of which the socialists are so enamored that the proper repository of such things as civil rights, specifically the right of self-defense, ought to be placed in the collective and not in the individual. Hence the suffering depicted above is irrelevant, being relegated only to individuals, and the beneficiary is society in the form of overall lower rates of "gun crime." That this is purely illusory (an illusion maintained, if necessary by jimmying the numbers) is unimportant as long as the impression of safety prevails, regardless of whether it is actually a fact. It's a very strange notion, actually, and it isn't restricted to the British - many American gun-control advocates have the same odd idea.

8 posted on 11/18/2003 6:41:06 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Billthedrill
It seems to me lefties all over the world embraced that notion. The number of folks of a righty persuasion who endorse gun control I can count on one hand.
12 posted on 11/18/2003 6:47:41 PM PST by neverdem (Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
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To: Billthedrill
The root of the pernicious notion that protection of one's person is a duty to be arrogated only to "society" and not to the individual is curious - it is, I think, simply a manifestation of the notion of which the socialists are so enamored that the proper repository of such things as civil rights, specifically the right of self-defense, ought to be placed in the collective and not in the individual.

In my opinion, you cannot separate the welfare state from gun control. At one time, self-reliance was thought to be both a virtue and a necessity and the ultimate expression of self-reliance was self-defense. Nowadays, the same big government that promises to send you to college, look after you in your old age, etc. (because you are too stupid and childish to do so for yourself) promises to protect you from the bad guys. Socialists (sometimes known as liberals) hate self-reliance because they seek, one way or the other, to force you to become completely dependent on Big Momma Government and thus empower themselves.

That this is purely illusory (an illusion maintained, if necessary by jimmying the numbers) is unimportant as long as the impression of safety prevails, regardless of whether it is actually a fact. It's a very strange notion, actually, and it isn't restricted to the British - many American gun-control advocates have the same odd idea.

Definitely. Symbolism over substance. But liberalism is a pack of lies and so liberals are by definition liars, aren't they?

18 posted on 11/18/2003 7:29:01 PM PST by Siamese Princess
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To: Billthedrill
it is, I think, simply a manifestation of the notion of which the socialists are so enamored that the proper repository of such things as civil rights, specifically the right of self-defense, ought to be placed in the collective and not in the individual. Hence the suffering depicted above is irrelevant, being relegated only to individuals, and the beneficiary is society [the collective] in the form of overall lower rates of "gun crime."

Darn well put, Bill. Wish I'd said that. It gets right to the kernel of the psychology of gun control: Collective security, to the socialists, is more important than individual safety.

34 posted on 11/19/2003 10:54:58 AM PST by elbucko
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