Protesters Say Miami Police Overreacted

1) Unions are obsolete.

I am not so sure about this. What do you base your conclusion on? I know of lots of companies that treat their employees as nothing more than chattel. Unions brought some regulation as to hours and working conditions. In this day and age of constant demand for more productivity we are seeing a return to forced overtime and reduction in pay and benefits.

2) Unions undermine our economy

Again, in what way. I've already told you twice that unions only represent 8.2% of the private workforce. How does such a small percentage undermine an entire economy?

3)Unions diminish productivity and hinder innovation.

I'll give you those to a certain extent. If you are saying that all unions cause this you are wrong. There are a lot of unions that foster mediocrity. But, then again, jobs that are in the field of innovation, i.e. engineering, architecture, etc. don't have unions. It is mostly mass production.

You are clearly anti-union. However, you offer no evidence to support your assertions. Hard to have a discussion with someone who offers nothing to back up his statements.

1) Unions are obsolete--WHY?

First, if an employee is dissatisfied he/she can quit and work somewhere else. Second, most companies large and small know that a satisfied workforce is an able and efficient workforce. Most overtime I know of is wanted by the employees - example the UAW guys who hog it up and make tons. Most other situations I know of is the shortage issue - in the nursing profession for example.

2) Unions undermine our economy---In what ways?

They do that and more - they actually create dangerous conditions for our nation for example the PATCO strike in the 80's and the dockers strike earlier this year and it just so happens that key industries are unionized not to mention the bureaucrats (feds and state).

3)Unions diminish productivity and hinder innovation. Here's how.

Not only does innovation and technology come out of academia and research labs where many are unionized it also takes place the unionized workplace which instead rewards mediocrity and conformity. The employee who comes up with new ideas who energizes the workplace who stay after school to help the kids is PENALIZED under union rules. He/She is avoided and ostracized by other workers who see their prerogatives being challenged.

I can go on and on but this should (I hope) give you some food for thought...

Thanks.
I think I'll dig out "Biased."

First, if an employee is dissatisfied he/she can quit and work somewhere else. Second, most companies large and small know that a satisfied workforce is an able and efficient workforce. Most overtime I know of is wanted by the employees - example the UAW guys who hog it up and make tons. Most other situations I know of is the shortage issue - in the nursing profession for example.

A dissatisfied employee working for a union can quit and go somewhere eles, too. That doesn't prove anything.

Where I work, noone is satisfied, nor are we treated all that well. We are non-union and because of the low morale problem efficiency is down.

Do you really believe the people where I work who are forced to work 12 hrs/day seven days a week want to. They are told they have to.

My wife is a nurse and there is no union where she works. Nor is there a union at the other major hospital in New Haven. Also, what does that have to do with a shortage. I don't get the parallel?

They do that and more - they actually create dangerous conditions for our nation for example the PATCO strike in the 80's and the dockers strike earlier this year and it just so happens that key industries are unionized not to mention the bureaucrats (feds and state).

I wish you could come up with more than one example. Again, I don't see unions, who represent only 8.2% of the privat workforce, creating the havoc you describe in this country.

The employee who comes up with new ideas who energizes the workplace who stay after school to help the kids is PENALIZED under union rules. He/She is avoided and ostracized by other workers who see their prerogatives being challenged.

Again, you cite teachers. I agree that the public sector unions are too strong. Remember, you claim that unions are undermining our economy. I don't buy it anymore. Public sector unions are directly involved in the growth of our economy. Public sector workers will always be a drain on our economy since they don't produce anything. They are of the service sector.

By the way, the service sector is where most, if not all of those 2 million new jobs came from that you stated. What do they produce in the way of real growth. Service sector jobs are simply money shifting jobs. They don't produce anything just take money from place and put into another.

You have not made a case as far as I am concerned. Your hatred for unions, for whatever reason, has clouded your ability to see that unions have nowhere near the damaging effect you cite. They are simply too small, in the manufacturing sector, to have any effect.

All the evidence in the world could be staring you in your face and you still would not get it.

Like many unionists you want something for nothing. In addition, you want to trash the free enterprise system and have the state bureaucrats run most everything

It didn't work in the Soviet Union and it's not going to work here.

The unions are not only undermining our nation as well as stifling expansion they also are engaged in the cultural wars - expanding the benefits, financing abortion, etc. at consumers' expense. Every time I buy a car or get service at a union run outfit I am indirectly contributing to left wing causes I do not support.

So, what you are telling me is you have no empirical data, a little bit of anecdotal evidence and a highly charged emotional opinion regarding the question I posed. (How does 8.2% of the private workforce control the economy?)

Okay you win! NOT!!!

I would really like to here you answer the question.

"Unions served a purpose. That purpose is done. There are now laws in place to prevent the abuses they are there for. The roles of unions and workers has reversed. Unions were designed to represent their constituancy. Now, the workers are there to serve the union. That's a problem. Unions should be stopped whereever they are."

I don't know that unions are completely useless, but most of them certainly approach it. My dad was a member of the Las Angeles Newspaper Guild in the late 60's, when they went on strike against the L.A. Herald-Examiner. The LANG was, very early on in the strike, having union members destroy equipment and damage company property to try to force them to give in. The Herald had the trucks that delivered papers to the distributors parked against a fence, and the strikers were shoving pieces of rebar through the fence into the radiators of the trucks. The demands of the union weren't all that unreasonable, but their attitude certainly was. The paper hired strikebreakers on a contract that gave them exactly what the union wanted. As far as I know, the strike never actually ended. Sometime in the late 80's or early 90's my dad got a check from the LANG for his share of what was left of the strike fund, about $17. By then, he was a member of the United Mine Workers, and hadn't worked in a mine in a decade or so, either, because the mines near his new home had all closed, as the steel mills they supplied had moved overseas. He said, himself, if the union bosses weren't so greedy, unions would still be relevant, but they aren't, anymore.

I worked for UPS for a short time after I retired from the USAF, and was required to join the union. Cost me $19 per paycheck, for which I got a neat little magazine(that they didn't bother to send to me until after I didn't work there anymore). I was one of the voters who helped pass the "Right to Work" legislation in Oklahoma because I had no representation from the Teamsters, at all. I'm working on becoming a teacher, and I expect to tell the NEA to take a flying leap at a rolling donut. ;) I might join the AFT, as they don't seem to be quite as idiotic. Still undecided on that one.

the Teamsters transport something like 90% of all goods moved in America. If they go on strike, hardly anything moves. Sounds like a garrotte around the throat of our nation, to me.

One more time: The 8.2% of the workforce that are unionists represent workers in highly sensitive employment categories: transportation, education, and bureaucrats. In addition, unionist leadership has been taken over by either extreme left wingers and/or crooks.

Both facts taken together means that an organized effort to harm the nation could be accomplished if these goons got together. THE TEACHERS' UNIONS ARE ALREADY DAMAGING GENERATONS OF KIDS.