NYT: F.B.I. Scrutinizes Antiwar Rallies

The NYT ^ | Nov. 23, 2003 | ERIC LICHTBLAU

[summer]

NYTimes.com > National

F.B.I. Scrutinizes Antiwar Rallies

By ERIC LICHTBLAU

Published: November 23, 2003

WASHINGTON, Nov. 22 — The Federal Bureau of Investigation has collected extensive information on the tactics, training and organization of antiwar demonstrators and has advised local law enforcement officials to report any suspicious activity at protests to its counterterrorism squads, according to interviews and a confidential bureau memorandum.

The memorandum, which the bureau sent to local law enforcement agencies last month in advance of antiwar demonstrations in Washington and San Francisco, detailed how protesters have sometimes used "training camps" to rehearse for demonstrations, the Internet to raise money and gas masks to defend against tear gas. The memorandum analyzed lawful activities like recruiting demonstrators, as well as illegal activities like using fake documentation to get into a secured site.

F.B.I. officials said in interviews that the intelligence-gathering effort was aimed at identifying anarchists and "extremist elements" plotting violence, not at monitoring the political speech of law-abiding protesters.

The initiative has won the support of some local police, who view it as a critical way to maintain order at large-scale demonstrations. Indeed, some law enforcement officials said they believed the F.B.I.'s approach had helped to ensure that nationwide antiwar demonstrations in recent months, drawing hundreds of thousands of protesters, remained largely free of violence and disruption.

But some civil rights advocates and legal scholars said the monitoring program could signal a return to the abuses of the 1960's and 1970's, when J. Edgar Hoover was the F.B.I. director and agents routinely spied on political protesters like the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

"The F.B.I. is dangerously targeting Americans who are engaged in nothing more than lawful protest and dissent," said Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union. "The line between terrorism and legitimate civil disobedience is blurred, and I have a serious concern about whether we're going back to the days of Hoover."

Herman Schwartz, a constitutional law professor at American University who has written about F.B.I. history, said collecting intelligence at demonstrations is probably legal.

But he added: "As a matter of principle, it has a very serious chilling effect on peaceful demonstration. If you go around telling people, `We're going to ferret out information on demonstrations,' that deters people. People don't want their names and pictures in F.B.I. files."

The abuses of the Hoover era, which included efforts by the F.B.I. to harass and discredit Hoover's political enemies under a program known as Cointelpro, led to tight restrictions on F.B.I. investigations of political activities.

Those restrictions were relaxed significantly last year, when Attorney General John Ashcroft issued guidelines giving agents authority to attend political rallies, mosques and any event "open to the public."

Mr. Ashcroft said the Sept. 11 attacks made it essential that the F.B.I. be allowed to investigate terrorism more aggressively. The bureau's recent strategy in policing demonstrations is an outgrowth of that policy, officials said.

"We're not concerned with individuals who are exercising their constitutional rights," one F.B.I. official said. "But it's obvious that there are individuals capable of violence at these events. We know that there are anarchists that are actively involved in trying to sabotage and commit acts of violence at these different events, and we also know that these large gatherings would be a prime target for terrorist groups."

Civil rights advocates, relying largely on anecdotal evidence, have complained for months that federal officials have surreptitiously sought to suppress the First Amendment rights of antiwar demonstrators.

Critics of the Bush administration's Iraq policy, for instance, have sued the government to learn how their names ended up on a "no fly" list used to stop suspected terrorists from boarding planes. Civil rights advocates have accused federal and local authorities in Denver and Fresno, Calif., of spying on antiwar demonstrators or infiltrating planning meetings. And the New York Police Department this year questioned many of those arrested at demonstrations about their political affiliations, before halting the practice and expunging the data in the face of public criticism.

The F.B.I. memorandum, however, appears to offer the first corroboration of a coordinated, nationwide effort to collect intelligence regarding demonstrations.

The memorandum, circulated on Oct. 15 — just 10 days before many thousands gathered in Washington and San Francisco to protest the American occupation of Iraq — noted that the bureau "possesses no information indicating that violent or terrorist activities are being planned as part of these protests" and that "most protests are peaceful events."

But it pointed to violence at protests against the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank as evidence of potential disruption. Law enforcement officials said in interviews that they had become particularly concerned about the ability of antigovernment groups to exploit demonstrations and promote a violent agenda.

"What a great opportunity for an act of terrorism, when all your resources are dedicated to some big event and you let your guard down," a law enforcement official involved in securing recent demonstrations said. "What would the public say if we didn't look for criminal activity and intelligence at these events?"

The memorandum urged local law enforcement officials "to be alert to these possible indicators of protest activity and report any potentially illegal acts" to counterterrorism task forces run by the F.B.I. It warned about an array of threats, including homemade bombs and the formation of human chains.

The memorandum discussed demonstrators' "innovative strategies," like the videotaping of arrests as a means of "intimidation" against the police. And it noted that protesters "often use the Internet to recruit, raise funds and coordinate their activities prior to demonstrations."

"Activists may also make use of training camps to rehearse tactics and counter-strategies for dealing with the police and to resolve any logistical issues," the memorandum continued. It also noted that protesters may raise money to help pay for lawyers for those arrested.

F.B.I. counterterrorism officials developed the intelligence cited in the memorandum through firsthand observation, informants, public sources like the Internet and other methods, officials said.

Officials said the F.B.I. treats demonstrations no differently than other large-scale and vulnerable gatherings. The aim, they said, was not to monitor protesters but to gather intelligence.

Critics said they remained worried. "What the F.B.I. regards as potential terrorism," Mr. Romero of the A.C.L.U. said, "strikes me as civil disobedience."

[summer]

"What a great opportunity for an act of terrorism, when all your resources are dedicated to some big event and you let your guard down," a law enforcement official involved in securing recent demonstrations said. "What would the public say if we didn't look for criminal activity and intelligence at these events?"

...Critics said they remained worried. "What the F.B.I. regards as potential terrorism," Mr. Romero of the A.C.L.U. said, "strikes me as civil disobedience."

I am all for civil disobedience, but not for the kind of violence we saw erupt in Seattle. Also, I do believe terrorists look at these large-scale events with more than passing interest, probably drooling with glee -- so, I am glad our law enforcement is seeing it from that perspective as well.

On a related note -- I am getting really tired of Howard Dean's continuous omission of the liberation of the Iraqui people in his anti-war speeches. Yes, I too am upset by war, in fact, so up set I could not even post on this forum at the beginning of the war. But to forget those who were enslaved by a brutal dictator, and to not give our military and our president credit for helping those people, is just wrong. If the Democrats really think they can win swing voters in this 2004 election by their one-sided anti-war rhetoric, omitting all the evidence of torture and mass graves uncovered in IRaw since America wen in there, these Dems are heading for a loss of landslide proportions next November.

[summer]

I'll try it again, correcting those typos --

"What a great opportunity for an act of terrorism, when all your resources are dedicated to some big event and you let your guard down," a law enforcement official involved in securing recent demonstrations said. "What would the public say if we didn't look for criminal activity and intelligence at these events?"

...Critics said they remained worried. "What the F.B.I. regards as potential terrorism," Mr. Romero of the A.C.L.U. said, "strikes me as civil disobedience."

I am all for civil disobedience, but not for the kind of violence we saw erupt in Seattle. Also, I do believe terrorists look at these large-scale events with more than passing interest, probably drooling with glee -- so, I am glad our law enforcement is seeing it from that perspective as well.

On a related note -- I am getting really tired of Howard Dean's continuous omission of the liberation of the Iraqui people in his anti-war speeches. Yes, I too am upset by war, in fact, so upset I could not even post on this forum at the beginning of the war. But to forget those who were enslaved by a brutal dictator, and to not give our military and our president credit for helping those people, is just wrong. If the Democrats really think they can win swing voters in this 2004 election by their one-sided anti-war rhetoric, omitting all the evidence of torture and mass graves uncovered in Iraw since America wen in there, these Dems are heading for a loss of landslide proportions next November.

[summer]

Well, never mind. You know what I mean. I'm out of here... :)

[Dallas59]

I have no problems with Civil Protest...as long as they don't burn my Chevy.

[DoughtyOne]

I suspect what the leftist media is worried about most, is that the FBI will figure out that union funds are being paid to union members to get them on the streets. We have noticed that the same union members seem to show up at different protests in the Los Angeles area. Their printed signs leave little doubt that some their appearances are more than spontanious individual efforts.

[jonalvy44]

rubber bullets!! Crush these civil disobediance proponents while we are at war. They tie up valuable resources...

[Jackson Brown]

"""The F.B.I. is dangerously targeting Americans who are engaged in nothing more than lawful protest and dissent," said Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union. "The line between terrorism and legitimate civil disobedience is blurred, and I have a serious concern about whether we're going back to the days of Hoover."""

I guess this ACLU dweeb means the FBI's VIEW of terrorism and legitimate civil disobedience.

But the anarchists and "extremist elements" come armed. The come to destroy property and hurt police. The ones blurring the line are those groups that engage in terrorism under the banner of dissent...NOT the FBI.

Of course, since the ACLU was founded by an Anarchist after he was released from Jail, it makes sense they can't see the difference.

[bert]

Memo
To: FBI
From: Bert

Subject: Antiwar subversives on Parade

Reference:1) F.B.I. Scrutinizes Antiwar Rallies By ERIC LICHTBLAU

Published: November 23, 2003


Suggest you read reference 1 and cast an eye on the NYT to determine if any of their reporters are engaged in subersive antiwar action.

[rs79bm]

"The line between terrorism and legitimate civil disobedience is blurred, and I have a serious concern about whether we're going back to the days of Hoover."

Get on with it. If you don't like it, then stop rooting against your Country.

[Iris7]

If you can't see that the Iraqi business is the most brilliant piece of statecraft in American history since George Washington sent the British packing, then you have, in my most humble opinion, no basis for your comments other than willful ignorance.

[jempet]

I guess some missed all those "free palenstine" banners at the antiwar protests. Or the arabs that wore all black uniforms , very much like Hamas does. If protesters aren't doing something wrong, they have nothing to fear from the Feds. Terrorists would love to blow that whole crowd up in one move, but the Feds are the ones making sure that doesn't happen.

[LoudRepublicangirl]

I have attended many pro-troop rallies with lefties across the street from us with their usual rhetorical signs about President Bush and how corporations are waging this war, etc. A few of them came across the street to our side and tried to provoke us into a fight. Of course, we restrained ourselves because we were not about to give into their intentions. These people are not about peace.

[tarheal]

This is what the ACLU would rather hear:

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has decided not to collect information on the tactics, training and organization of antiwar demonstrators and has advised local law enforcement officials to ignore any suspicious activity at protests to its counterterrorism squads, according to interviews and a confidential bureau memorandum. Furthermore, the Bureau has decided that since a substantial proportion of Americans can't tell the difference between prudent law enforcement and fascist police state tactics, it does not particularly care if fanatics kill another few thousand Americans and Sharia becomes the law of the land. A highly placed FBI source said, "I can't wait to see the looks on the faces of the NOW crowd, ACT-UP, the ACLU, ANSWER, and Al Sharpton when it becomes illegal in the USA for a woman to walk alone on the street, when homosexuality is punishable by death, peaceful demonstrators are arrested and never seen again, and union activity will get you sent to re-education camps."

[Psycho_Bunny]

Dennis Miller summed up these people when he characterized Sean Penn, 'I've never met him but if our paths ever cross, he's going to want to kick my ass for implying he isn't peaceful'.

[Mo1]

"The F.B.I. is dangerously targeting Americans who are engaged in nothing more than lawful protest and dissent," said Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union. "The line between terrorism and legitimate civil disobedience is blurred, and I have a serious concern about whether we're going back to the days of Hoover."

Some one needs to ask the ACLU why they are more concerned with the rights of terrorists then they are of American lives

[WoofDog123]

"
Critics of the Bush administration's Iraq policy, for instance, have sued the government to learn how their names ended up on a "no fly" list used to stop suspected terrorists from boarding planes. "

Is anyone familiar with the background of this claim? I have heard nothing of it, but vividly remember the Clinton admin's tactic of having people audited, i.e. ex-girlfriends, that lady who criticized him to his face over the saudi barracks bombing, etc...

[Free Vulcan]

The ACLU wants the left to be able to engage in violent acts of destruction and assault and have it swept under the rug as 'dissent' or 'civil disobedience'. Saying that destroying private small businesses is protesting govt policies is bunk, it's nothing but pro-Marxist revolutionary tactics against a free market society.

Not that I trust the FBI any more than the leftists, but at least they seem to have given up on the Beezulbubba era focus on 'right-wing' terrorists that that never amounted to more than chasing swamp gas apparitions, and have started focusing on the people who are actually trying to subvert the govt.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

...The line between terrorism and legitimate civil disobedience is blurred...

Indeed. But one mans blurred vision is another's sharp eye. In a post-911 world it would not be prudent to close our eyes on potential subversion, anarchists, and other possible national security risks. Blurred vision on domestic terrorist threats contributed to 9/11. Never again.

The ACLU, or course, would love to see our society and culture harmed as it furthers their cause. Not me. And not more than a handful of other citizens.

[O.C. - Old Cracker]

The face of a garden-variety antiwar protester. This rocket scientist's handlers are usually no where to be found.

[VOA]

Some one needs to ask the ACLU why they are more concerned with the rights of
terrorists then they are of American lives

1. Because they are lefties.
2. They've found they can make a good living doing destructive work.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

Bump #14.

Brilliant!

[buffyt]

To all PEACEFUL PROTESTORS and "PACISIFISTS" (ANARCHISTS and MARXISTS) Break the law and go to jail.

Don't do the crime,
If you can't do the time!

[buffyt]

Excellent comment!

[buffyt]

You are RIGHT! At the Davis-Simon debate last year in LA, I was there with RonDog, Jessamine, Outraged, and some other Freepers. We all came in our own cars, etc. The UNION THUGS were there, bussed in by Gray Davis, they had on matching silk screened shirts, they had matching silk screend signs, they had matching alcohol on their breath. Bunch of drunks! And they would rough up a woman just as quickly as they would rough up a man. EVERYONE was complaining about them, even the media. They were so loud, rude, obnoxious....

[Southack]

"according to interviews and a confidential bureau memorandum. The memorandum, which the bureau sent to local law enforcement agencies last month..."

Well, well, well. The NY Times will print confidential memos after all (at least, they will if the Memo is from the right rather than the left)...

[Southack]

c#26

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks for the comments Buffyt.

[little jeremiah]

"What the F.B.I. regards as potential terrorism," Mr. Romero of the A.C.L.U. said, "strikes me as civil disobedience."

The right of the people to peaceably assemble is basic. But considering that a lot of the people who were to assemble in London the other day (anyone have any info on how many actually showed up? I missed that.) included a bunch of Islamists and their supporters, I don't think the FBI is out of line... as long as they stick to investigating those who advocate violence.

[dighton]

Related thread.

[William McKinley]

Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union. "The line between ism and legitimate civil disobedience is blurred

No, that line is not blurred. Not even close. It is a sign of a demented mind to think that line is blurred.

[Maigrey]

The rats and communists will be the first ones to scream when some terrorist releases a bomb in their midst, screaming that the government should have done something to protect them.

[jmt576]

It's about time somebody takes interest in these "anti-war" traitors. How long until somebody accuses the FReepers of being an information collection tool of the FBI?

[FreedomPoster]

>>Or the arabs that wore all black uniforms , very much like Hamas does.

The last DC protest prominently featured folks wearing Hamas green and Pali black-and-white checked khafeyahs.

There was a stash of molotovs found in a bush in one of the San Francisco protests, in an area where they were cordoning and arresting protestors for illegally blocking right-of-ways.

These people are not our friends, and are not about reasoned discourse and lawful protest and speech.

[FreedomPoster]

I'm glad you saved a hi-res version of that, all I had up to now was a small one. I just scarfed a copy of yours. My small one still had a readable sign, though. I threw it in the face of some lefties the other day.

You don't happen to have a screen shot of the indymedia.org page that was proudly displaying it, do you? I kick myself for not saving it off to my hard drive.

[Little Bill]

We or at least I have.

[Mo1]

You don't happen to have a screen shot of the indymedia.org page that was proudly displaying it, do you? I kick myself for not saving it off to my hard drive.

No I don't have that one . sorry :0(

[Cultural Jihad]

Critics said they remained worried. "What the F.B.I. regards as potential terrorism," Mr. Romero of the A.C.L.U. said, "strikes me as civil disobedience."

Too bad. The ACLU types are just going to have to lump it. If anyone wants to be civilly disobedient then they have to accept the consequences of their actions, even if we were not at war for the very survival of our nation.

[Howlin]

NYT: F.B.I. Scrutinizes Antiwar Rallies

Well, thank God for that!

[Chad Fairbanks]

Well, well, well. The NY Times will print confidential memos after all (at least, they will if the Memo is from the right rather than the left)...

BUMP!

[FreedomPoster]

Hey, I'm ecstatic to have a bigger version of the pic. I'll throw it up on my fotki space later so I'll have quick access to it. I think that pic should get the widest possible exposure.

[dsc]

"The rats and communists will be the first ones to scream when some terrorist releases a bomb in their midst"

Would releasing a bomb in the midst of rats and communists be terrorism?

[Jeff Chandler]

it has a very serious chilling effect on peaceful demonstration

Everything seems to have a "chilling effect" on the left. Somebody buy them sweaters, already.

[sdk7x7]

It's very simple. If what the protestors do is legal, let 'em do it. If it's illegal, stop them, and use whatever force is necessary. Once they start throwing deadly objects like rocks, I think the "rubber" in "rubber bullets" can be abandoned.

-sdk

[Travis McGee]

Masked traitor, giving aid and comfort to our terrorist enemies in wartime.

Hang him.

[Travis McGee]

Just as a "friendly reminder" to the traitors and domestic enemies in our midst:

this is what we used to do to traitors in wartime.

It's time to take the gloves off and bring back the practice of hanging traitors.

We're in a war.

[RandallFlagg]

For some reason, I think that I should put this link in here for y'all..

[Travis McGee]

Look what I found when I googled up KGB funding of the VN antiwar movement. This was the first of dozens of hits.

---

To understand what really happened we should consider the statements of Col. Stanislav Lunev, a high-ranking Russian defector to the United States. Lunev worked for the GRU, which is the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Soviet (now Russian) General Staff. According to Lunev, the GRU believed itself responsible for North Vietnam's final victory. In Lunev's book, "Through the Eyes of the Enemy," he says that his GRU instructors and superiors would not directly claim credit, but "they strongly implied that the GRU was responsible for the Vietnamese success."

How was this success supposedly achieved?

According to Lunev, the GRU and KGB "helped to fund just about every antiwar movement and organization in America and abroad." This funding, said Lunev, was provided "via undercover operatives or front organizations." More amazing still, Lunev claims that the GRU and KGB "had a larger budget for antiwar propaganda in the United States than it did for economic and military support of the Vietnamese."

In other words, Russia's antiwar propaganda campaign against the American effort in Vietnam had cost the Kremlin over $1 billion. And look how well it worked. As Lunev recounts in his book, "it was a hugely successful campaign and well worth the cost. The antiwar sentiment created an incredible momentum that greatly weakened the U.S. military."

In other words, U.S. military victories were negated by communist propaganda victories in the United States. While the communists were being slaughtered in futile offensive attacks against Vietnam, the American people were being systematically convinced that the war was hopeless. Allied victories were overshadowed by intensive GRU-KGB propaganda. In fact, the United States was almost destabilized by Russian propaganda.

---

I wonder who is filling the KGB's shoes today? The Saudis? George Soros? The Chinese?

[RandallFlagg]

Great job!
Now if we could find some concrete links as to who's funding moveon.org......

[Travis McGee]

My money would be on George Soros, via some "foundations" as cutouts.