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'Matrix,' other geek icons become philosophy-class fodder
CNN ^ | Tuesday, November 25, 2003 Posted: 12:15 PM EST (1715 GMT) | Not Provided

Posted on 11/25/2003 1:17:01 PM PST by .cnI redruM

Edited on 04/29/2004 2:03:29 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

ALLENTOWN, Pennsylvania (AP) -- Long after The Matrix Revolutions morphs itself off the big screen, the eternal battle of reality versus illusion, fate versus free will and good versus evil will rage on in philosophy classrooms everywhere.

The third and final installment of the trilogy opened November 5 on more than 10,000 screens at the exact same time, and, in spite of mixed reviews, soared quickly to No. 1.


(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: dumbingdown; matrix
I'll admit it. During The Fellowship Of The Ring, I saw Hugo Weaving and expected to hear him to tell Frodo. "I'm going to enjoy watching you die, MR BAGGINS."
1 posted on 11/25/2003 1:17:01 PM PST by .cnI redruM
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To: .cnI redruM
I'm just grateful for the red pill/blue pill metaphor. It's classic.
2 posted on 11/25/2003 1:20:43 PM PST by warchild9
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To: warchild9
I'm just grateful for the red pill/blue pill metaphor. It's classic.

Yup. Lewis Carroll.

3 posted on 11/25/2003 1:22:13 PM PST by SquirrelKing (If I don't have another beer, then the terrorists win)
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To: warchild9
I've haunted the philosophy sections of bookstores for years (with little to show for it). I am seeing more and more philosophy "treatises" based on pop culture references.

Of course I abhor this trend and am considering writing a book to cash in on it.

4 posted on 11/25/2003 1:24:40 PM PST by NutCrackerBoy
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To: NutCrackerBoy
As a society, we are losing brain cells faster than we can...uh...do something about it.
5 posted on 11/25/2003 1:31:18 PM PST by Argus ((Ninety-nine and forty-four one-hundredths percent Pure Reactionary))
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To: NutCrackerBoy
considering writing a book to cash in on it

Note that most Literature involves the science of ethics. Also, practical ethics does not employ reason, but aesthetics. Ethics is a compliment to physics, and thus a perfect balance for sci-fi themes such as in The Matrix.

6 posted on 11/25/2003 1:34:10 PM PST by RightWhale (Close your tag lines)
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To: .cnI redruM
"It's what a liberal education should do: liberate people from preconceived ideas and prejudices," said Schick.

Good grief, what a bald faced lie. What is "political correctness" but a "preconceived idea and prejudice"?? What is "taught" at "institutions of higher learning", rather, what is propagandized without rest, indoctrinated without cease, but "political correctness" as a faith?

Either this fellow is utterly blind or lieing without shame to himself and everyone else. Probably both!!
7 posted on 11/25/2003 1:35:51 PM PST by Iris7 ( "Duty, Honor, Country". The first of these is Duty, and is known only through His Grace)
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To: Iris7
He should free his mind and stop taking the Blue Pill.
8 posted on 11/25/2003 1:37:40 PM PST by .cnI redruM (The social agenda of the Democratic Party reminds me of a creepy XXX fetish show.)
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To: .cnI redruM
I'll admit it. During The Fellowship Of The Ring, I saw Hugo Weaving and expected to hear him to tell Frodo. "I'm going to enjoy watching you die, MR BAGGINS."

And in The Two Towers, I was expecting to see a gazillion Elronds get into a fight with Sauron...

9 posted on 11/25/2003 1:41:33 PM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: Iris7
Either this fellow is utterly blind or lieing without shame to himself and everyone else. Probably both!!

The Matrix question - If everything you thought, believed, knew to be true were to be proved beyond a doubt in fact a lie, would you want to know the truth?

Liberal answer - no

Patrick Henry - YES!

10 posted on 11/25/2003 1:42:49 PM PST by Only1choice____Freedom (If everything you experienced, believed, lived was a lie, would you want to know the truth?)
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To: Poohbah
>>>>>>And in The Two Towers, I was expecting to see a gazillion Elronds get into a fight with Sauron...

Mt Doom would have erupted and 400 Hugo Weavings would flown to every corner of ME. Not very believable, but an awesome special effect.
11 posted on 11/25/2003 1:44:08 PM PST by .cnI redruM (The social agenda of the Democratic Party reminds me of a creepy XXX fetish show.)
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To: .cnI redruM
Got to make sure that Elrond and his duplicates give a long and boring lecture on purpose before the fight (c8
12 posted on 11/25/2003 1:48:56 PM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: .cnI redruM
"Students: For an easy A, expound on this in your next classroom discussion: What are the philosophical implications of Hugo Weaving, the Australian actor who is Agent Smith in The Matrix trilogy, also playing Elrond, the elven Lord of Rivendell, in the Lord of the Rings trilogy?"

Probably the reason I got so mad at Professor Schick is I cannot answer a question like the one he put. I don't watch television or movies if possible, since my mind and soul are in bad enough shape without actively seeking to destroy them!!

Actually there have been good movies made. "Seven Samurai", and to a lesser extent "The Grand Illusion" come to mind. As far as movies in English, I am sure there must be a decent one somewhere, though nothing comes to mind!!

Wait, I liked the first half or so of "Red River". James Dean was awful. In "Zulu" I liked the scene where the 21st Foot await the Zulu charge while singing "Men of Harlech". Of course, when they cut the movie for the masses, this was the scene they cut!! The inspection in skivvy shorts scene in "Full Metal Jacket" was good. I also liked the first half of "Braveheart", before Mel arrived on the scene.
13 posted on 11/25/2003 1:51:40 PM PST by Iris7 ( "Duty, Honor, Country". The first of these is Duty, and is known only through His Grace)
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To: warchild9
I'm just grateful for the red pill/blue pill metaphor. It's classic.

Yes. Both timely and timeless.

14 posted on 11/25/2003 1:52:16 PM PST by Yeti
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To: Poohbah
Given that all those unemployed Hugos were bored, the lecture and the physical violence, gave them something to do with all that time on their hands.
15 posted on 11/25/2003 1:52:24 PM PST by .cnI redruM (The social agenda of the Democratic Party reminds me of a creepy XXX fetish show.)
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To: .cnI redruM
"It's what a liberal education should do: liberate people from preconceived ideas and prejudices," said Schick.

What if the preconceived ideas are right and the prejudices are justified?

16 posted on 11/25/2003 1:53:47 PM PST by edsheppa
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To: Iris7
"Students: For an easy A, expound on this in your next classroom discussion: What are the philosophical implications of Hugo Weaving, the Australian actor who is Agent Smith in The Matrix trilogy, also playing Elrond, the elven Lord of Rivendell, in the Lord of the Rings trilogy?"

Neither is in charge of anything by the end of the story. I want my 4.0.

Oh yeah, and both of them hate human beings. They'd probably do well in the Environmental Defense Fund. Elrond, better than Smith, but heck, they do look rather similar.
17 posted on 11/25/2003 1:55:21 PM PST by .cnI redruM (The social agenda of the Democratic Party reminds me of a creepy XXX fetish show.)
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To: edsheppa
Than piss on them. Just right what you're told, steal your 'A', and live your own life after graduation.
18 posted on 11/25/2003 1:56:14 PM PST by .cnI redruM (The social agenda of the Democratic Party reminds me of a creepy XXX fetish show.)
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To: Iris7
Why is James Dean? What is Hugo Weaving? How is George Bush?
19 posted on 11/25/2003 1:56:44 PM PST by NutCrackerBoy
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To: .cnI redruM
I never got into the Matrix thing (too violent for my tastes)---I did appreciate the philosophical implications of "Gattaca." Such as:

Does genetic predetermination make hope extinct?


20 posted on 11/25/2003 2:00:31 PM PST by stands2reason ("Don't funk with my funk."--Bootsy Collins)
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To: Iris7
Ummmm ... you do understand the difference between 'liberal' in a political sense, and 'liberal' in an education sense, don't you?

Political :
1 ...
A) Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
B) Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
C) Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
D) (Liberal) Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
(NB - this is the definition, not the reality)

Educational:
4 ... Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.

Source:
www.dictionary.com
21 posted on 11/25/2003 2:02:10 PM PST by sadimgnik
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To: .cnI redruM
I took "Philosophical Ideas in Science Fiction" in the mid-1980s. This is nothing new. If you really want a title that you can teach an entire philosophy semester from, look into Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
22 posted on 11/25/2003 2:13:25 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Iris7
James Dean wasn't in Red River. I believe you are thinking of Montgomery Clift. (great flick by the way, with one of The Duke's best, most complex performances)
23 posted on 11/25/2003 3:54:52 PM PST by RightWingAtheist
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To: RightWingAtheist
Darn. You are so right. Two birds of a feather, though, in my view, Dean and Clift, Hollywood pink mafia.

"Red River" was good up until the long plumes of black powder smoke disappeared and the blanks were obviously smokeless. Interesting the change from some attempt at historical accuracy to standard Hollywood baloney "modern angst" happened at the same time.
24 posted on 11/26/2003 12:54:43 AM PST by Iris7 ("Duty, Honor, Country". The first of these is Duty, and is known only through His Grace)
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To: sadimgnik
Of course. I am saying that as "liberal" has been corrupted by politics into a name for shameless Bolsheviki, who are a bunch of murderous thug wannabes, the term "a liberal education" has become the name for a process of severe indoctrination, a near "brainwashing" (although the term is poorly used by most Americans) meant to instill permanently a "liberal" worldview impervious to reason or criticism.
25 posted on 11/26/2003 1:06:57 AM PST by Iris7 ("Duty, Honor, Country". The first of these is Duty, and is known only through His Grace)
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To: .cnI redruM
There were laughs and shouts to that effect in the theater while I was watching the first movie.
26 posted on 11/26/2003 1:11:05 AM PST by Unassuaged
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To: Unassuaged
It's like Gary SInese or Gene Hackman tryimnmg to play a good guy. I just think of all the SOBs those guys have played before and can't see them in a sympathetic role. Hugo Weaving will always be Agent Smith. He played the role too well for his own good.
27 posted on 11/26/2003 6:43:57 AM PST by .cnI redruM (The social agenda of the Democratic Party reminds me of a creepy XXX fetish show.)
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To: stands2reason
I did appreciate the philosophical implications of "Gattaca."

Is Gattaca a good movie? I've been thinking about buying it but wasn't sure. Would you give it a good recommend?

28 posted on 12/05/2003 12:32:00 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
I would recommend it. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
29 posted on 12/05/2003 1:53:02 PM PST by stands2reason ("Don't funk with my funk."--Bootsy Collins)
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To: stands2reason
Thanks.
30 posted on 12/05/2003 4:48:23 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
Is Gattaca a good movie?

Yes, but movies and novels are not considered appropriate subjects for Applied Ethics class. There's more than enough real stuff in daily life.

31 posted on 12/05/2003 4:51:45 PM PST by RightWhale (Close your tag lines)
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To: RightWhale
Ok. So I now have two good recommends for the movie.
32 posted on 12/05/2003 5:04:36 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
Gattaca is classical. There is little fresh in the film aside from aesthetics, but they said that about Brave New World, too. Classical drama, good play.
33 posted on 12/05/2003 5:13:42 PM PST by RightWhale (Close your tag lines)
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