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Make it a crime to be gay: Alliance MP
Vancouver Sun ^ | 11/27/03 | Peter O'Neil

Posted on 11/27/2003 6:13:39 AM PST by nypokerface

OTTAWA -- Canadian Alliance MP Larry Spencer, his party's family issues critic, says he'd support any initiative to put homosexuality back in the Criminal Code of Canada.

The U.S.-born former Baptist pastor also argues that the gay- rights movement's recent successes in areas like same-sex marriage stem from a "well-orchestrated ... conspiracy" that began in the 1960s.

The conspiracy included the seduction and recruitment of young boys in playgrounds and locker rooms and the deliberate infiltration of North America's judiciary, schools, the religious community, and the entertainment industry, he said.

The movement's progress in gaining public acceptance for homosexuality would have been slowed, however, had Pierre Elliott Trudeau not legalized homosexuality in 1969, according to the MP.

"I do believe it was a mistake to have legalized it," Spencer (Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre) told The Vancouver Sun.

While he said no Canadian government would likely have the "courage" to reverse Trudeau's decision to remove the state from the nation's bedrooms, Spencer would support any bill that advocated such a move.

"If somebody brought a bill in the House to do that I'd certainly vote for it. Yeah, I'd like to see that [to] be the case. It's not that I would want spies in everybody's bedroom or anybody following anybody.

People who have been practising homosexuals for most of their adult lives, like New Democratic MP Svend Robinson, could transform themselves into heterosexuals.

"I believe he could. I believe he would struggle with it," said Spencer, pointing out that someone could hate long-distance running or weightlifting but then train themselves in that area and learn to love it.

"So the human body can be sensitized or de-sensitized. The mind or the conscience that we have can be sharpened against right or wrong. It can be de-sensitized to think that whatever wrong that's around us is nothing but natural and we begin to accept that."

"I just wish that there was some way that society could stand up and say, 'This is not right.' "

But Spencer said any MP, and especially someone from his party, risks being labelled "a redneck or a hate-monger or homophobic" if they even mention such views in Parliament.

Spencer's pronouncements come at a difficult time for his party, which is stickhandling a merger with the Progressive Conservative party.

Delegates from both parties are due to vote on a ratification of the merger Dec. 6.

He made his comments during an hour-long interview after The Vancouver Sun obtained a copy of an e-mail from Spencer to a Canadian citizen outlining his conspiracy theory. The Sun requested an interview so Spencer could elaborate on his views.

"I'm being very, very free here to talk with you against all advice probably that I should ever talk to any reporter to this kind of link," he said near the end of the interview.

"But you know I'm feeling very, very deprived, you know, of my rights in that I cannot say openly -- I dare not say it in the House of Commons, even -- the full extent of what I really believe on some of these issues."

Spencer said the conspiracy began with a speech by a U.S. gay rights activist in the 1960s whose name he couldn't recall.

"His quote went something like this ... 'We will seduce your sons in the locker rooms, in the gymnasiums, in the hallways, in the playgrounds, and on and on, in this land.'

"It was quite a long quote stating what was going to happen to the young boys of North America."

Spencer said one of the major steps was to encourage followers to enter the ministry of various churches and to infiltrate North America's schools and teaching colleges.

"The activists that organized in those days (encouraged) people of their persuasion to enter into educational fields, and to do this with the feeling of a mission, you know, of going out there as pioneers in a -- quote-- human rights area, and I think they were successful as we've seen."

He said those who sympathize with homosexuals in today's judiciary, educational system, the entertainment industry, and churches aren't directly linked to the people who launched the conspiracy.

"I would think that is so long ago that we're seeing the outworkings of it decades down the line. And to say there's a conspiracy now is going to raise eyebrows, and (people will) say, 'Well, I don't think so. It's just the natural evolution.'

"But there are things, like what we're talking about, that once you set in motion, it's like shoving a snowball off the edge of the barn roof. Once you set it in motion you don't have to keep pushing. It sort of keeps going. It's that slippery slope that we talk about."

Trudeau, while justice minister, announced sweeping changes to the Criminal Code in 1967 that included legalizing homosexual acts done in private involving consenting adults. The bill wasn't passed until 1969, when the late Trudeau was prime minister.

Previously, those convicted of buggery or bestiality could be sentenced to a maximum 14 years in jail.

"There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation," Trudeau said famously after tabling the bill.

Spencer said he wouldn't want homosexuals to ever go to jail as a result of their "choice" to engage in homosexual acts.

"I wouldn't even suggest that there would be a penalty. I just think it's so sad that we have to take an issue like this and be asked to put the Good Housekeeping seal of approval on it without being allowed to tell the truth and talk about facts."

He said one of those "facts" is that homosexuals, due to AIDS and other health problems, have a far lower life expectancy than straight men. (A search by The Vancouver Sun's library failed to find evidence supporting Spencer's statement.)

"Let's just say if ... anybody that used Colgate toothpaste, their life expectancy was lowered by 10, 15 years. What do you think would happen to Colgate toothpaste? It would be outlawed. Well, we know that's what happens to men living a gay lifestyle."

Spencer said some of his constituents fear the proposed Alliance-Progressive Conservative merger could make it more difficult for the merged party to take strong positions on social conservative issues.

"It may be more difficult to carry through with a strong family stand."

But he pointed out that most of the Tory caucus voted with the Alliance in opposing the Liberal government's plan to legalize same-sex marriage.

Spencer said he would welcome gay Tory MP Scott Brison, who supports the merger, but has voiced concern that the party could be perceived as socially intolerant, as a caucus colleague.

"He's a great guy and he's got a lot of great ideas. If he can live with us we can live with him."

Spencer, 61, was born in Missouri and moved to Canada in 1974. He became a Canadian citizen in 1999, a year before he narrowly beat former New Democratic Party MP John Solomon.

Among his other comments during the interview:

- He said there will soon be strong pushes to legalize polygamy and pedophilia.

"Polygamy is next on the list. More than one (spouse) ... We'll see that within the next very, very few years. Pedophilia is being pursued as we speak ... Some will say down to an eight-year-old, they think it's okay."

- He said he believes homosexuality, rather than being part of someone's nature, is something that is developed by young people who struggle with their identity in relation to a parent, such as an "overbearing mother" or cold father.


TOPICS: Canada; Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; homosexualvice; larryspencer; nambla; sodomy

1 posted on 11/27/2003 6:13:39 AM PST by nypokerface
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To: nypokerface
It works in Cuba.
2 posted on 11/27/2003 6:28:08 AM PST by Vaduz
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To: nypokerface
Pedophilia is being pursued as we speak ... Some will say down to an eight-year-old, they think it's okay."

Pedophiles Seek Online Support
Societal Acceptance (CNSNews.com) -

At the website Girl-Love Garden, pedophiles are on a "quest" for social acceptance of their sexual preferences and "the emancipation of girls of all ages and 'girl love,' in general."

As part of the website, the GirlChat Committee notes that "true emancipation" begins "neither in the polls nor in the world's courtrooms," but "in a child's sublime assent to becoming self actualized with the keen-eyed help of a loving mentor (gardener) who is willing to carefully fertilize and tend to the growth of the emotions, spirit and intellectual flora of the garden of a child's soul - in comparison with which everything else is small.

"We as girl lovers believe that statement to be axiomatic," the committee continues in its mission statement on the website. "Equally as axiomatic, perhaps, is the view that adults who are naturally, sensuously attracted to little girls and blossoming young women, in a similar vein, will achieve full emancipation only by clothing their souls with a childlike personality and agreeing to 'play safe' with each other and the good earth by consensus - as opposed to authoritarian decree."

Here visitors find "an oasis of shade" among the "refreshing waters of reason" where they are invited to "drink deeply of the exquisite delights to be found herein by Girl Lovers everywhere."

But "boylovers" need not feel left out. At Free Spirits, they learn that "boylovers have not chosen of their free will to become so."

"It is an attraction most discover within themselves at a very early age," the site explains. "Through no action of their own, they find themselves considered horrible and vile. Most people who are attracted to minors try to live good lives but find no encouragement from a society and a press that labels all people with that attraction, whatever they do or don't do, as evil monsters."

Developers of "BoyChat," the chat room at Free Spirits, admit it "is not a board in which well-meaning social workers firmly guide people the way they think they ought to go." BoyChat "is run by boylovers for boylovers. It encourages its posters to work freely through their own issues and questions."

Girl-Love Garden's GirlChat claims to be "committed to working vigorously to build our resource into a multi-lingual celebration of the exquisite delights of young girls and teenage women, and to further human rights and equality for all persons regardless of race, creed, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability or age."

The operators of both the Free Spirits and Girl-Love Garden websites are free to express their views because of the anonymity of the Internet. There are many other online sites catering to "MAAs" (Minor-Attracted Adults, which some pedophiles prefer to call themselves) and claiming to advocate for the civil rights and acceptance of "the most underserved and misunderstood sexual minority remaining in today's human society," according to the Free Spirits mission statement.

Along with chat rooms, these sites include members' galleries where visitors may "Peruse a delightful section of members' Web Pages that provides personal, historical and literary insights for Girl Lovers - as well as a selection of wonderfully expressive poetry," a "Close Encounters Digest" - "a message board where both people who are attracted to boys and/or girls significantly younger than themselves and people who do not share that attraction could come to discuss all of the various issues related to emotional, romantic and sexual relationships between boys or girls and older people."

According to Barry Maddox, spokesperson for the FBI's Baltimore, Md., office, the sites are "totally legal." Maddox told CNSNews.com the sites come close to breaking the law but do not break it.

"They've done their homework," Maddox said.
Pornographic images, literature or any other sexually explicit content are nowhere to be found on these sites.

"Girl Moments," or stories describing an encounter with a female adolescent that are "tasteful," "well written and that are couched from a view that highlights friendships or other light-hearted encounters," are welcome at Girl-Love Garden, according to its frequently asked questions (FAQ) section. But it warns visitors not to "include details that evoke a prurient interest in sexual relations.

"Written materials that appear erotic or that advocate or counsel engaging in sexual activity with a minor constitutes a very serious offence" under the criminal codes of Canada, the U.S. and the United Kingdom, the FAQ warns, adding that "your material must be in full compliance with these laws so that when viewed with a prejudicial eye, they could not be seen as openly advocating, counseling, inducing, nor encouraging sexual intimacy with minors."

"We're only interested in those who act upon these impulses," Maddox said. While legal, he added, the sites "do make me sick to my stomach."

Ruben Rodriguez, director of the Exploited Children Unit at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, told CNSNews.com that while he "loves" the Internet, sites like Free Spirits and Girl-Love Garden "have turned sections of it into a sewer."

"Many of these pedophiles act out on their impulses," Rodriguez said. "These kinds of sites are not something I would welcome."

Rodriguez said all the disclaimers and attempts at de-stigmatizing the "deviant sexual behavior" of pedophiles online are "just excuses" for them to "sit in front of a monitor and masturbate." He expressed "disgust" at the notion of society accepting pedophiles as another minority group.

"I see us sometimes going down a different path," Rodriguez said. "I don't see it getting better, I see it getting worse...going in a direction sometimes that just drives me crazy."

Some MAAs claiming to be Christians say they have found comfort at a website called Philia (http://phila.ws), "which provides news and resources to religious support groups for adults who are attracted to minors." Philia, along with the Christian Boylove Forum (CBLF), are for those who "find themselves in the position of having no one to turn to who shares their faith as well as their sexual feelings.

"This (online message) board attempts to fill that gap by providing a friendly, safe place where we can be honest about our feelings and struggles with sexuality and faith, without fear of destructive criticism or harassment," the CBLF site states. "This is a place for mutual encouragement, support and advice as we seek to deal with our sexuality and society's reaction to it in responsible and healthy ways, to live out our lives with integrity and to express our faith in a way that honors God and demonstrates the love of Jesus Christ to all people."

Both sites are run by "Bach" - the screen name used to protect his identity - a boylover who related to CNSNews.com vie e-mail that he has never acted upon his feelings and that he found support through a Christian service agency with which he volunteered.

"I am in a committed relationship with another man and have found that I am able to gain some satisfaction with this compromise," Bach wrote. "We discussed the fact that many message boards didn't allow for a Christian boylover to explore his faith in the context of his sexuality. We were often confronted with boylovers who had a strong hatred for the church, and we were constantly defending ourselves. This was the impetus to form the Christian Boylove Forum."

From CBLF sprung "Christian Consultations," "an annual gathering to bring together Christians (and some non-Christians) who are willing to enter into dialogue about adult attraction to minors," according to the Philia website.

"We have had involvement at the Christian Consultation from various pastors, Christian service workers, members of...Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered Persons," Bach stated in the e-mail to CNSNews.com. "The goal of these encounters was to provide a non-threatening place for dialogue ...to help break isolation and fear.

"I would hope that Christians could come to accept that minor-attracted adults are not monsters, not sex maniacs, not uncontrolled freaks, but folks who have to live their lives with a desire that is demonized by society and the media to an extent that they are fearful to speak of it to anyone," Bach explained.

Julie Posey, a self-described "cyber-crime fighter" runs the website Pedowatch.org. Posey's website claims that "since 1996, she has passed on hundreds of tips to law enforcement involving child sexual predators who use the Internet as a tool to gain access to children who are later sexually assaulted and in rare instances murdered."

Posey is also the author of They Call Me Kendra, which Pedowatch.org describes as an autobiography of "her life experiences as a sexually abused child and tells how she later became one of the nation's leading experts on child sexual predators."

Kendra was the onscreen name Posey used to trap sexual predators online. She told CNSNews.com that Christian Consultation sounded a lot like prison ministers who work with convicted pedophiles.

"They go into prisons and try to help the families," Posey said. "They say, 'Oh, what your loved one did isn't so wrong...he has a love for boys,' and they try to get them (the family) to accept it. But they're trying to get all of society to just accept it, and it's unacceptable to me."

Posey said sites like Free Spirits and Girl-Love Garden are "just working to make their stories sound good.

"I read the North American Man Boy Lovers Association's manifesto one time, and they were like 'sex is actually good for kids,'...well, I can tell you it's not," Posey said. "If society doesn't get a grip right now - and even right now it's going to be difficult, they are definitely going to have the same rights that we have."

3 posted on 11/27/2003 6:51:58 AM PST by GrandMoM ("Without prayer, the hand of GOD stops, BUT, with prayer the hand of GOD moves !!!)
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To: GrandMoM
Hi GrandMoM,

But they seemed like such nice people. LOL
4 posted on 11/27/2003 7:02:33 AM PST by Khepera (Do not remove by penalty of law!)
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To: scripter; EdReform
)))))))PING((((((((((
5 posted on 11/27/2003 7:03:22 AM PST by GrandMoM ("Without prayer, the hand of GOD stops, BUT, with prayer the hand of GOD moves !!!)
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To: Khepera
Hi Khepera! We haven't crossed pathes in awhile.

But they seemed like such nice people. LOL

....all part of their plan!

Go to the web-site of NGLTF and see what they have had planned since the early 70's!

6 posted on 11/27/2003 7:08:40 AM PST by GrandMoM ("Without prayer, the hand of GOD stops, BUT, with prayer the hand of GOD moves !!!)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: GrandMoM
I will contact you later but for now i have Thanksgiving duties to perform. G-d Bless you GrandMoM.
8 posted on 11/27/2003 7:36:22 AM PST by Khepera (Do not remove by penalty of law!)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: waylandsmith
Probability that a homosexual will molest a child is 30 times or more the probability for a heterosexual. The nexus between homosexuality and pedophilia is well-established.
10 posted on 11/27/2003 8:49:37 AM PST by thoughtomator ("A republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: nypokerface
The U.S.-born former Baptist pastor

"There's nothing worse than a former American." --- Jean Chretien
"There's nothing worse than a former Baptist." ---  Episcopate of Gay Bishops
"There's nothing worse than a former pastor." --- Tammy Fay Bakker
11 posted on 11/27/2003 9:00:59 AM PST by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: nypokerface
Spencer said the conspiracy began with a speech by a U.S. gay rights activist in the 1960s whose name he couldn't recall.


12 posted on 11/27/2003 9:04:23 AM PST by Scenic Sounds (Pero treinta miles al resto.)
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To: waylandsmith
Ask yourself what the purpose of GLSEN is (and what the roots of that scurillous organization ultimately is). What need or right does a group of homosexual adults have in going into elementary schools and programming the malleable minds of children?

I like purple haired crosseyed women with one butt cheek. Why can't I go into schools and sing the praises? Why can't I demand a Day of Silence? Where's my special status? Where's my safe haven? why can't I wield the natural power adults have over childrens minds?

Used to be the psychiatric community warned us against abusers of children. Now they're aligned with them. Why?

13 posted on 11/27/2003 9:58:06 AM PST by JoJo Gunn (Help control the Leftist population - have them spayed or neutered. )
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To: nypokerface
What a sad commentary of the state of Christianity. They seem to have abandoned the precept of saving souls. Now all they want is compliance, and are willing to get it by force of the state. Very sad.

The world needs good Christians now more than ever. Christians who know that Christ loved the sinner, while loathing the sin.

Peace of earth, good will toward men.
14 posted on 11/27/2003 10:09:37 AM PST by Search4Truth (When a man lies he murders some part of the world.)
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To: GrandMoM
Is it a good idea to put websites like this in a pubic forum?
15 posted on 11/27/2003 11:07:23 AM PST by Old Professer
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To: nypokerface
Maroons like this Alliance MP are the chief reason the right remains split in Canada.

That, and the Reds in the Tory Party. ;^)
16 posted on 11/27/2003 11:24:42 AM PST by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: Old Professer
IN twenty years they will be getting support from liberal states like mass,calif,and we will be called racist or bigots , and we will back down in corners like we are doing right now with the homos in this screwed up society.
17 posted on 11/27/2003 12:08:41 PM PST by douglas1
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To: thoughtomator
Probability that a homosexual will molest a child is 30 times or more the probability for a heterosexual. The nexus between homosexuality and pedophilia is well-established.

Most pedophiles are men...does that mean all men are pedophiles or that we should make men second-class citizens?

Frankly, I don't really care what Adam and Steve do behind closed doors...they can bugger each other until their eyes pop out for all I care. As long as they're both over 18, they can do what the hell they like. I don't really want to hear about ANYONE'S sex life, be they straight or gay. It's none of my business and frankly, I simply don't care who's getting laid, by whom, how, and how often as long as sex always involves consenting adults.

18 posted on 11/27/2003 5:45:18 PM PST by Pedantic_Lady
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To: Pedantic_Lady
You mean men aren't second-class citizens? Somebody tell Family Court!
19 posted on 11/27/2003 6:09:28 PM PST by thoughtomator ("A republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: thoughtomator
You mean men aren't second-class citizens? Somebody tell Family Court!

Oh, wah wah. Come live in sexist Britain and tell me women aren't second-class citizens. This is a country where I've seen women getting their breasts squeezed at work and the perp wasn't even disciplined. That's disgusting.

20 posted on 11/27/2003 6:14:36 PM PST by Pedantic_Lady
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To: GrandMoM
Whew, just reading this thread on Thanksgiving I see we have the usual gay guy here...

And, anyone who thinks that pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality needs to get their head examined.

Two words: Michael Jackson
21 posted on 11/27/2003 6:27:24 PM PST by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: Pedantic_Lady
So you think a minor incident of harassment, however unpunished, is equatable with a system in which millions of men are legally severed from their own children and on top of that, forced to pay for the results of that severance?

You need a bit of perspective. A little titty-squeeze does not a second-class citizen make.
22 posted on 11/27/2003 6:43:06 PM PST by thoughtomator ("A republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: thoughtomator
So you think a minor incident of harassment, however unpunished, is equatable with a system in which millions of men are legally severed from their own children and on top of that, forced to pay for the results of that severance?

No, that is simply one way in which women are made into second-class citizens in Britain. If you want more, I can surely provide much more anecdotal evidence from my own personal experiences, plus studies that show that the pay gap between men and women is increasing in Britain.

You need a bit of perspective. A little titty-squeeze does not a second-class citizen make.

Well, I hope I never work in the same office as you if you feel that sexual assault is no big deal.

23 posted on 11/27/2003 6:56:51 PM PST by Pedantic_Lady
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To: nypokerface
"He said one of those "facts" is that homosexuals, due to AIDS and other health problems, have a far lower life expectancy than straight men. (A search by The Vancouver Sun's library failed to find evidence supporting Spencer's statement.)"

They did not look very hard. The first paragraph is from Vancouver, British Columbia!

http://www.cathfam.org/Hitems/ShortLife.html
Short & Lethal Life-span

Consider:
From the British Columbia Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS, St Paul's Hospital, Vancouver, Canada:

"CONCLUSION: In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday. Under even the most liberal assumptions, gay and bisexual men in this urban centre are now experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by all men in Canada in the year 1871. (emphasis added)" [International Journal of Epidemiology, Vol 26, 657-661}

Consider:
Excerpts from a report by the D.C. Family Research Council, citing dozens of experts and studies, including a study of some 5,200 obituaries, over five years, in 16 homosexual newspapers:

• Average age of men dying w/ AIDS is 39.

• The average age of homosexuals dying of all other causes, 41 (Average mafioso dies at 44).

• Only 1% lived to be 65 or older, as opposed to 80% for heterosexual men.

• Other studies have found only 3% of all homosexuals are over the age of 55.

While obituaries in the gay press focus on those out of the closet, they suggest that a homosexual "life-style" may cut two or three decades off one’s life expectancy.

According the FRC report, homosexual men are 3 times as likely to have abuse problems, 14 times more likely to have syphilis, 23 times more likely to contract any venereal disease, 5500 times (550,000%) more likely to contact AIDS.

Nor is the phenomenon restricted to males: "A compilation of recent studies shows that lesbians are 19 times more likely than heterosexual women to have had syphilis, twice as likely to suffer from genital warts, and four times as likely to have scabies".

TWO MAJOR STUDIES SHOW HOMOSEXUALITY / SUICIDE LINK

NEW YORK, Oct 19,99 (CWNews.com/LSN.ca) - Two extensive studies in this month’s issue of the AMA’s Archives of General Psychiatry confirmed a strong link between homosexual sex and suicide as well as a relationship between homosexuality and abnormal mental problems.

A study using 103 pairs of twins, one a practicing homosexual and the other not, found that homosexual behavior significantly increased the likelihood of suicide even after adjustments were made for substance abuse and depression. The practicing homosexual twin was over 5 times more likely to experience the suicidal symptoms. The study measured suicide risk in terms of the categories: "wanted to die," "suicidal ideation," "attempted suicide," and "thoughts about death." The study was unique for its thorough co-twin control design and its use of the most widely used instrument in psychiatric epidemiology, the Diagnostic Interview Schedule. The study report can found at (http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/issues/v56n10/full/yoa8085.html#a2)

A second study in the journal by David M. Ferguson and his team found that "gay, lesbian, and bisexual young people are at increased risk of psychiatric disorder and suicidal behaviors." Youths suffering from these disorders were four times as likely as their peers to suffer major depression, almost three times as likely to suffer generalized anxiety disorder, nearly four times as likely to experience conduct disorder, five times as likely to have nicotine dependence, six times as likely to suffer multiple disorders, and over six times as likely to have attempted suicide.

The study was based on a 21-year study of 1265 children born in Christchurch, New Zealand. Of 1007 subjects questioned only twenty-eight (2.8 percent) were classified as being gay, lesbian, or bisexual.

Click Here to Reach the cwnews.com web site
24 posted on 11/27/2003 7:04:44 PM PST by Calamari
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To: Pedantic_Lady
Destroyed families, millions of enslaved men... doesn't bother you. A single incident of uninvited squeezing, now that's a pandemic.

Well, you've made a good case against women's suffrage, if nothing else.
25 posted on 11/27/2003 7:05:53 PM PST by thoughtomator ("A republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: GrandMoM
. . ."true emancipation" begins "neither in the polls nor in the world's courtrooms," but "in a child's sublime assent to becoming self actualized with the keen-eyed help of a loving mentor (gardener) who is willing to carefully fertilize and tend to the growth of the emotions, spirit and intellectual flora of the garden of a child's soul - in comparison with which everything else is small.

And, of course, as an extremely remote and unconnected benefit, the "gardener"' gets to eat the produce.

26 posted on 11/27/2003 7:10:15 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: thoughtomator
Destroyed families, millions of enslaved men... doesn't bother you. A single incident of uninvited squeezing, now that's a pandemic.

If you think that having to make child support payments turns you into a slave, you have a pretty f***ed up idea of what it means to be a father.

Well, you've made a good case against women's suffrage, if nothing else.

Thanks for confirming my suspicion that you are little more than a misogynistic troglodyte.

27 posted on 11/27/2003 7:12:19 PM PST by Pedantic_Lady
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To: Pedantic_Lady
I saw my own father as well as fathers of most of my schoolmates go through it, so I know exactly what it entails. The condition that the family courts impose on men is in fact true to the term slavery.

And if you think *I* am a misogynistic troglodyte then you are sure to be upset quite often as you read this forum. I'm pretty middle-of-the-road here. There are a number of women here who make excellent (and not by demonstration!) cases against female suffrage. And I'm pretty sure you will be hard pressed to find anyone to sympathize with your compressed breast trauma, especially when you're so flippant about a problem that is devastating families nationwide.
28 posted on 11/27/2003 7:35:58 PM PST by thoughtomator ("A republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: thoughtomator
I saw my own father as well as fathers of most of my schoolmates go through it, so I know exactly what it entails. The condition that the family courts impose on men is in fact true to the term slavery.

Enlighten me, then. Tell me exactly how it fits the definition of slavery.

And if you think *I* am a misogynistic troglodyte then you are sure to be upset quite often as you read this forum. I'm pretty middle-of-the-road here. There are a number of women here who make excellent (and not by demonstration!) cases against female suffrage. And I'm pretty sure you will be hard pressed to find anyone to sympathize with your compressed breast trauma, especially when you're so flippant about a problem that is devastating families nationwide.

I guess it's a good thing I'm already married to a man who never implies that I shouldn't have a right to vote. Next thing you'll be telling me that foot binding makes women's feet dainty and erotic. I don't know anyone whose family was destroyed by divorce...and I grew up in the 80s, pal.

29 posted on 11/27/2003 7:53:00 PM PST by Pedantic_Lady
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To: Pedantic_Lady
You grew up in the 80s and didn't know anyone whose family was divorced? You must have grown up in a very small town. In my suburb it was over 50% by high school years.

Here's some reading about what the situation is like:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/keyword/familycourt

Check out the first one where the father can't even get custody when the mother was a convicted murderer. Does that qualify as second-class in your book? Sure does in mine.
30 posted on 11/27/2003 8:16:22 PM PST by thoughtomator ("A republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: Search4Truth
"Christians who know that Christ loved the sinner,"

Christians who also know that Christ said in Matthew Ch.18 Vv. 15-17

"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
"

We're to verse 17 already.

31 posted on 11/27/2003 8:16:41 PM PST by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: nypokerface
Mr Spencer has been fired and Removed from the Caucus

Check out the National Post homepage-there's more articles on this story.

32 posted on 11/28/2003 7:38:16 AM PST by kaylar
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To: thoughtomator
You grew up in the 80s and didn't know anyone whose family was divorced? You must have grown up in a very small town. In my suburb it was over 50% by high school years.

I wouldn't call Dallas a "small town."

Check out the first one where the father can't even get custody when the mother was a convicted murderer. Does that qualify as second-class in your book? Sure does in mine.

I think it's ridiculous to place a child with anyone who is a convicted felon; obviously if the mother is a convicted felon and the father isn't, the father should receive custody of the child. I have no position on who "should" receive custody or how custody issues should be resolved because I don't have children, I have only one friend who has children (and her son is only four months old), and I've never really known anyone who has had to deal with it...so I haven't really formed an opinion on it.

33 posted on 11/28/2003 3:24:13 PM PST by Pedantic_Lady
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: thoughtomator
Well, you've made a good case against women's suffrage, if nothing else.

I disagree. Women should be allowed to suffer.

36 posted on 11/29/2003 3:36:10 PM PST by Lazamataz (To the left, the only treason that exists is when someone salutes an American flag.)
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To: Darkbloom
He said one of those "facts" is that homosexuals, due to AIDS and other health problems, have a far lower life expectancy than straight men. (A search by The Vancouver Sun's library failed to find evidence supporting Spencer's statement.)"

I was posting in response to the statement that I am now highlighting in bold italics.

The links I found were found in a less than a one minute Google search.

Taken at face value, the Vancouver Sun's statement would lead one to believe that no evidence exists. This statement is at least misleading. There were many more links that I did not post but I thought that it was ironic that one of the first sources of "evidence" was right there in Vancouver.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

the "studies" you repeat and repeat and repeat

I only posted this once, here in this thread. Don't exaggerate the facts.

Maybe you have me confused with another poster.

37 posted on 11/29/2003 4:34:53 PM PST by Calamari
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To: GrandMoM
Pornographic images, literature or any other sexually explicit content are nowhere to be found on this wonderful FreeRepublic.com web site.

"FReep Moments," or stories describing an encounter with a FReeper with common sense that are "tasteful," "well written" and that are couched from a view that highlights "patriotism or other consertive encounters," are welcome at FReep-Love Garden, according to its frequently asked questions (FAQ) section. But it warns posters not to "include details that evoke a prurient interest in liberal relations."

"Written materials that appear erotic or that advocate or counsel engaging in liberal activity with any democrat constitutes a very serious offence" under the criminal codes of FreeRepublic.com, but articles that laud and praise Jim Robinson, the courageous founder thereof, are welcomed with open and loving arms!!! ;-))

.

38 posted on 11/29/2003 5:43:48 PM PST by GeekDejure ( LOL = Liberals Obey Lucifer !!!)
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