Dell Policy Forbids Spyware Removal Support

Spyware Weekly Newsletter ^ | 12/2/2003

[Born Conservative]

Dell Policy Forbids Spyware Removal Support

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Update

This article has been slashdotted. I'd like to clarify that the posting at slashdot is misleading, suggesting that Dell itself is installing spyware. That is not the case at all and please don't be confused into believing that. Dell is absolutely NOT bundling spyware on their PCs.

Slashdot's article is here

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If you or a family member receive a Dell PC as a gift this Christmas, you may be in for a surprise, if it becomes infected with spyware.

Dell has instituted what has to be the most misguided tech support policy I have ever seen. Not only will Dell refuse to tell you how to remove the spyware, they won't even refer you to web sites that can help.

Why does Dell do this? Dell cites the possibility that removing spyware might violate user agreements between the user and some other company. The following is an email sent to Dell tech support persons announcing the new policy:

Subject: Spyware: What we can say to the customer

Dell does not support or endorse the use of spyware removal programs.

NOTICE: Use of spyware removal software may conflict with user license agreements of other applications installed on your system. Please consult your user license agreements for further information. Dell does not endorse the use of spyware removal software and cannot provide support on these products.

This means we do not take callers to download.com or doxdesk.com, nor do we recommend spyware removal programs, nor do we advise callers on the use of spyware removal programs. This includes using phrases "We don't support the removal of spyware, but I use..."

Please reply to this e-mail to indicate that you have read and understand this information.

Thanks,
Vader

This is bull. Doesn't Dell realize that the majority of spyware and other parasites now are classified as viruses? Does Dell really care more about the writers of spyware and viruses than they do about their own paying customers?

It is perfectly understandable that Dell does not want to provide manual spyware removal instructions over the telephone. It's hard enough doing it on message boards where you have access to log files and specialized removal tools. However, to withhold the addresses of web sites that can help is callous and irresponsible. All they have to do is refer them to doxdesk.com, cexx.org, or to my site and let the experts handle it.

Several of us in the antispyware/antivirus community have signed an open letter to Dell Inc. asking them to retract this foolish and misguided policy. That letter is located at http://www.spywareinfo.com/articles/dell/support_letter.php. Consider that a press release and feel free to post the entire letter anywhere you please. People need to hear about this rubbish.

Links:

http://www.pacs-portal.co.uk/startup_pages/startup_d.php#DVDSentry :: DVDSentry
http://channels.lockergnome.com/windows/backissues/20031126.phtml :: Dude! You're getting a runaround!
http://channels.lockergnome.com/windows/backissues/20031201.phtml :: Dude! I Got a Runaround, Too!

[Pan_Yans Wife]

ping

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

bttt

[samtheman]

Dell is probably just limiting its legal liability. Remember, there are millions of lawyers out there, trying to suck blood from corporations. All Dell is saying is "we don't want to get involved".

Look, if you don't know how to open your web browser, type www.google.com in the address bar, and then type spyware remove... then you're too stupid to own a computer.

[Cagey]

And what computer manufacturer does provide this support? This article sounds more like a plug to sell software.

[Heatseeker]

Interesting. FWIW, I have 2 Dells and run "Spybot: Search and Destroy" on both of them, without any trouble so far.

[ScudEast]

I think you're right. I searched on the Dell website for "Spyware" and got to their knowledge base article on the subject that said:

NOTICE: Use of spyware removal software may conflict with user license agreements of other applications installed on your system. Please consult your user license agreements for further information. Dell does not endorse the use of spyware removal software and cannot provide support on these products.

"Spyware" is often included with free software as the information obtained thereby can offset the cost of producing the software for free. I imagine that with some software, removing the spyware component will impair the function of the rest of the software - creating a tech support nightmare for Dell.

If you search on the dell forums there are loads of people telling you what kind of spyware removal tools to use and how to use them. Dell don't seem to have censored any of them so I guess they aren't actually in favour of spyware, they just don't want to support other people's software, which is what would happen if they recommended a spyware removal tool.

[steve50]

Spybot only found about 1/2 of what spyhunter did for me. A free scan only version of spyhunter is available, not a bad idea to run it and compare.

[Flyer]

then you're too stupid to own a computer

Nah, let 'em buy them. It's good for the economy and makes for some great garage sale bargains when they get tired of it.

[tentmaker]

No, this is not bull and it IS a matter of responsibility. If Dells sends customers to web sites that offer instructions on performing operations on their computer, they could themselves up to further responsibility or even lawsuits when anything goes wrong.

[thiscouldbemoreconfusing]

As usual, Christ said it best:

And Jesus said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Dell has lawyers, the spyware writers have lawyers, the judges dressed in black are lawyers, the pols who write the laws limiting freedom are lawyers, etc, etc, etc...

You know what is black and brown and looks good on any of the aforementioned lawyers?

A doberman pincher.

[BushCountry]

Basically the author of the article knows that it is not Dell's tech support job to recommend customers to his business and is just trying to get free press for his product.

Dell tech support is not really tech support, it just is some low level techie (two weeks of training) sitting in front of a computer with a software program that tells him exactly how to respond. Most of these responses are utter nonsense but they get the customer off of the line. Call time is King.

Example:

Cust: My system sometimes freezes on startup.
Cust Serv: Put in the Dell system disk and reformat and install the operating system.

Cust: My graphics look funny in I.E.
Cust Serv: Put in the Dell system disk and reformat and install the operating system.

Cust: My system is slowing down.
Cust Serv: Put in the Dell system disk and reformat and install the operating system.

Independent thought is not allowed in customer support.

[diotima]

ping!

[DB]

Hey now, I've used Dell's since around 1987 and I don't recall them once suggesting that I reformat the drive.

[angkor]

Ad-aware also is good for removing spyware.

http://lavasoft.element5.com/purchase/

The free version is somewhere on the left side of the page.

[E Rocc]

Isn't this one of the big complaints about tech "support" from India....scripted and irrelevant answers?

-Eric

[Tennessee_Bob]

Nothing new. Toshiba's policy was that we (at tech support) didn't support third party software. If it wasn't on the original image, then you're on your own. Spyware, word processors - even virii - it's all third party software.

Removing it, either directly or indirectly, can cause unknown damage to the system, loss of date - almost anything. If the owner installs it, let the owner take care of it.

[ItsOurTimeNow]

I use Spybot in conjunction with AdAware (from Lavasoft...free).

Spybot catches things that AdAware doesn't and vice-versa.

[Tennessee_Bob]

loss of date

Loss of data, even.

[DB]

If you direct someone to a third party site and something goes wrong you may well become partly liable for any damage done by that site.

Add to that some programs like RealPlayer are considered spyware (I do). Offering ways to remove it may well violate distribution agreements between the companies.

Then on top of that what qualifies as "spyware"? Companies will sue claiming they aren't spyware and that Dell is damaging their businesses by “scaring” people into thinking it is.

You as the operator of the computer have the responsibility of learning how to properly use it without damaging it or creating a security risk for yourself. It isn't the responsibility of the computer manufacture to repair damages done to their product due to ignorance. Try doing something stupid to your car and see how far you get with the manufacturer “correcting” it...

[RandallFlagg]

Bookmarking.

I got my Wife a Dell and asked if I could get one blank, with absolutely NO software installed on it. They refused.

I'm building my own...

[mbynack]

I installed a program called Spybot that's available over the web and it detects and cleans my system. I also started reading the license agreements that I've always clicked on without reading and was pretty surprised at the fine print in some of them.

For example: A friend forwarded an offer for free movie tickets and I clicked on the license agreement. I followed a couple of the hyperlinks and discovered that by agreeing to their terms you gave them permission to monitor your internet activities and sell you registration information to Spammers and junk mail distributers.

[steplock]

They are cowards to the radical attorneys with NO DECENCY or MORALS and that's why they crawl under their mama's skirts.

.

[Scannall]

Dell has some of the worst tech support in the PC industry. Why do you think the prices are low. You get what you pay for. My method of dealing with spyware, viruses, worms, trojan horses and pop up ads? Simple, I use a Mac.

[BornOnTheFourth]

Absolutely!!!! We have three Macs in our house. I even bought my own PowerBook to use at work (this 17" screen is unbelievably amazing). There is no comparison between the usability and stability. I have fun showing the resident geeks here (spoken with all affection) how easily I can use Unix. No emulator needed. heeeheeeheee...

Oh, Moooooooooooooom...I thought you'd like to see this thread!

OK, time to get to work...

[BlackbirdSST]

Get a grip. It's your PC, use it and maintain it. Don't know how? Would you LEARN to use a gun? Learn to use your Computer. Some people are just plain lazy. Dell, or any other vendor for that matter, only support their product. Blackbird.

[BlackbirdSST]

Cust: My system sometimes freezes on startup. Cust Serv: Put in the Dell system disk and reformat and install the operating system. Cust: My graphics look funny in I.E. Cust Serv: Put in the Dell system disk and reformat and install the operating system. Cust: My system is slowing down. Cust Serv: Put in the Dell system disk and reformat and install the operating system. Independent thought is not allowed in customer support.

That must be the Hindu version. I've been doing Dell for year's (just got quoted for 95 more), and have never had to do anything more than reload a driver. SYS restore has only been suggested as a last resort. Blackbird.

[babaloo]

I use spybot(started 6 mo.ago) and Ad-Aware(last week). In addition, a friend just told me about the pop-up blocker on the Google tool bar. I activated it and it makes a world of difference.

[ItsOurTimeNow]

pop-up blocker on the Google tool bar. I activated it and it makes a world of difference.

Awesome...I'll have to check that out!

thanks for the tip!

[RichardW]

I bought two new Dells recently and they are both working fine. I use Spybot and did so this morning. Piece of cake. I did use that popup blocker of Earthlinks. It works, well sort of but is more trouble than it is worth, IMV so I uninstalled it.

In the 45 days or so since I got my first new Dell, I haven't had a single lock-up using XP Professional. With Windows 98 my old computer would lock up two or three times a day. Never would go back to that nonsense.

I love the new Dells, the software is installed and ready to go right out of the box. Not a hint of trouble.

I've found it is about as quick to just mass delete all of these popups and reload IE. Doesn't take long and it clears them out of the way quickly so I can go back to work.

I do wish something would be done about Spam but don't see that for a while.

[Born Conservative]

Dell ping...

[avg_freeper]

look at the end of the message:

Please reply to this e-mail to indicate that you have read and understand this information.

Thanks,
Vader

The tech-support weenies are simply acting out fear of Darth's telekinetic choking powers. Who could blame them?

[FLAMING DEATH]

If you want to block popups, I'd get Mozilla Firebird.

It stops popups, it is fully skinnable (you can make it look just like IE, if that's what you're used to using), it has tabbled browsing (I was hesitant to use this at first, but now, I can't live without it...I can have 8 or 9 pages open at Freerepublic, and minimize them down to only one toolbar button, or close them all with one mouse click. Very handy.), user selected keywords for sites (I just type "Freep" in the address bar, and it brings me here), loads pages faster than IE, has an "Open New Window" button, so you can quickly go off in another direction while keeping the site you are on now in the background, has an "Open New Tab" button, so that you can open a new page in the same browser window, fully customizable button arrangement (if you want to put your Forward and Back buttons on the right instead of the left, you can).

You can also add new, custom made toolbars). Search in Google, Yahoo, Encarta, Dictionary.com or any other major search engine or reference site right from the address bar, use the tabbed browsing feature to have multiple home pages (in other words, you can have your webmail, weather, and Freerepublic all open up automatically in tabs when you start your browser), a search bar built in that you can customize by adding new search engines, and there's no need to install it...just decompress the files and click on Mozilla.exe. That's it (if you don't like it, you just zap them). You can even run it off a CD or a USB drive.

Not only that, it is only 7Mb to download, which isn't unreasonable for a dialup connection, (IE6 is between 11 and 25 megs) and it is free.

Nothing really to do with spyware or Dell. I just wanted to spread the joy.

[Tauzero]

"Dell is absolutely NOT bundling spyware on their PCs."

They ship Windows, don't they?

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Look, if you don't know how to open your web browser, type www.google.com in the address bar, and then type spyware remove... then you're too stupid to own a computer.

It's not that simple. They don't know which of their customers may be using free internet access software from ISPs like Address.com or Juno. Use of advertising tools in exchange for free 'net access is part of their EULA and the use of spyware removal tools may affect that funcionality of their software.

This is just one example of what Dell is possibly trying to avoid by instituting this new policy. Just a guess.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Independent thought is not allowed in customer support.

Please qualify. Independent thought is not allowed in Dell customer support.

[octobersky]

LOL!

[Flyer]

I have a personal interest in the garage sales - my main computer is a 2 year old Dell I got at a garage sale for $100 - with Windows XP, 15" monitor, keyboard and speakers.

Keep buying 'em folks.

[Gorzaloon]

If one does get a Dell, get Dell's "support.exe" off it immediatley. It was hammering on my firewall every two minutes. That was SOME of the cleanup I had to do before I dared use it.

But that was before Linux..haha.