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CA Legislature Fails to Agree on Governor Schwarzenegger's Fiscal Proposals (more detail on votes)
LA Times ^ | Dec. 6, 2003 | Nancy Vogel, Gregg Jones and Evan Halper

Posted on 12/06/2003 10:56:06 AM PST by FairOpinion

Shortly before 8 p.m., the governor's proposal to borrow $15 billion was defeated in a Senate floor vote. The plan got only five votes, all from Democrats; all but one of the 15 Republicans abstained because of a lack of support for the governor's spending cap. There were 14 votes against the governor's proposal: those of 13 Democrats and Sen. Tom McClintock (R-Thousand Oaks).

The Democratic counterproposal also failed, receiving 23 Democratic votes — four short of the 27 required for two-thirds approval. McClintock voted against it, and the other Republicans abstained. Later, Senate Republicans changed their votes to send the governor's spending limit to a 34-0 defeat, accompanied by a vow that they would put an even tougher cap on the November ballot.

As the potential for a Schwarzenegger setback loomed, Brulte reacted with irritation to questions about whether the governor should be at the rally in Tracy. "The governor should be doing exactly what he is doing," he said. "Let me tell you what is wrong with places like this.

"What is wrong is having the Democratic speaker of the Assembly tell the governor of California there is no need for us to get together the next couple of days — let me meet with colleagues," he said. "And then go on TV Wednesday and criticize the governor for not getting together with him. That is what is wrong with this place: saying one thing privately and doing something else publicly."

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: calgov2002; catrans; schwarzenegger
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Politics...

So the Republicans abstained, and the Dems and McClintock voted AGAINST Arnold's proposal.

1 posted on 12/06/2003 10:56:07 AM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Who was it that said McClintock is the new SoreLoserman?
2 posted on 12/06/2003 11:00:09 AM PST by Wheee The People (If this post doesn't make any sense, then it also doubles as a bump.)
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To: Wheee The People
Who was it that said McClintock is the new SoreLoserman?

Hate to tell ya, it's th Arnold folks who've been looking like sore losers the past 24 hours.

3 posted on 12/06/2003 11:02:38 AM PST by jmc813 (Help save a life - www.marrow.org)
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To: jmc813
When Republicans undermine their own Republican governor, what do you expect?
4 posted on 12/06/2003 11:04:55 AM PST by FairOpinion
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To: Wheee The People
So he's acting like a sore loser because he voted against a $15 billion bond issue? Ever heard of fiscal conservatism?
5 posted on 12/06/2003 11:06:59 AM PST by Nathaniel Fischer (Herman Cain for Senate!)
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To: FairOpinion
Define "Republican" these days. Thanks.
6 posted on 12/06/2003 11:07:06 AM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: jmc813
I don't know...If I were McClintock, I might wonder how I wound up siding with Democrats.
7 posted on 12/06/2003 11:08:00 AM PST by giotto
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To: giotto
I don't know...If I were McClintock, I might wonder how I wound up siding with Democrats.

The Dems are right sometimes, albeit for the wrong reasons. The recent Medicare bill is a perfect example.

8 posted on 12/06/2003 11:14:41 AM PST by jmc813 (Help save a life - www.marrow.org)
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To: FairOpinion
Politics...
So the Republicans abstained, and the Dems and McClintock voted AGAINST Arnold's proposal.

Won't really matter- only voters can approve this kind of bond issuance. The only difference is when- March 2004 or November 2004.
IMO, this mught just be wonderful. Now Arnold has lots of ammo to lay off, close down, cut back, and closely review each and every position, commission and it's members, ETC. It might be just exactly what will help Calif the most. Costs have to be cut, IMO, not just more bond floats.
9 posted on 12/06/2003 11:15:54 AM PST by ridesthemiles (ridesthemiles)
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To: FairOpinion
Do you feel the same way about Republican members of Congress who opposed the Medicare bill for conservative reasons?
10 posted on 12/06/2003 11:16:36 AM PST by Nathaniel Fischer (Herman Cain for Senate!)
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To: FairOpinion
Like someones tag line says, "socialism works just fine until you run out of someone elses money."
11 posted on 12/06/2003 11:21:26 AM PST by freeangel (freeangel)
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To: Nathaniel Fischer
"Do you feel the same way about Republican members of Congress who opposed the Medicare bill for conservative reasons?"

===
YES!

Frankly I am getting pretty tired of the "all of nothing" crowd -- because their attitude usually gets us NOTHING, and gets the Democrats everything.
12 posted on 12/06/2003 11:25:43 AM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Hey go back to DU. I have been monitoring you for a while. You talk like a Democrat most of the time supporting big govt programs. You would be more comfortable at DU.
13 posted on 12/06/2003 11:28:15 AM PST by FirstPrinciple
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To: FairOpinion
So you blame Republicans for opposing a huge entitlement program, calling them an 'all or nothing' crowd? Is it too much to ask that we just move in the right direction (toward smaller government)?
14 posted on 12/06/2003 11:29:10 AM PST by Nathaniel Fischer (Herman Cain for Senate!)
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To: FairOpinion
Frankly I am getting pretty tired of the "all of nothing" crowd -- because their attitude usually gets us NOTHING, and gets the Democrats everything.

Would you please explain how a Deomcratic version of the Medicare bill would have pased two Republican houses of Congress and a Republican President?

15 posted on 12/06/2003 11:31:13 AM PST by jmc813 (Help save a life - www.marrow.org)
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To: ridesthemiles
ridesthemiles said: "It [failure to get the 15 billion bond on the March ballot] might be just exactly what will help Calif the most. "

If I ever become convinced that this is the outcome that Arnold wanted, I will be impressed. I agree that only a lack of cash will bring about cuts in Kalifornia.

16 posted on 12/06/2003 11:33:53 AM PST by William Tell
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: FairOpinion
I'm not familiar with California legislature procedures. Is there some sort of strategery by abstaining versus voting for, or against? Maybe the Republicans are simply sitting on the sidelines and letting the Democrats and the Governator battle it out?
18 posted on 12/06/2003 11:48:56 AM PST by Quicksilver (FreeRepublic.com is show prep for Rush)
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To: jmc813
"Deomcratic version of the Medicare bill "

===

I wasn't talking about the Dem version -- I didn't think that was what you were talking about.

I thought you were talking about the Republican version, which did pass, with some R-s voting against it.
19 posted on 12/06/2003 11:51:00 AM PST by FairOpinion
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To: freeangel
Like someones tag line says, "socialism works just fine until you run out of someone elses money."

===
BINGO!!!
20 posted on 12/06/2003 11:51:41 AM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
If California goes bankrupt, the Democrats and Republicans may wish they'd voted for the lesser of two evils when they had the chance. Color me one delighted conservative!
21 posted on 12/06/2003 11:55:07 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Quicksilver
"Maybe the Republicans are simply sitting on the sidelines and letting the Democrats and the Governator battle it out?"

===

Great -- the Republicans are not willing to stand up and fight WITH our Republican governor, AGAINST the Dems, to solve the CA budget CRISIS, they are sitting on their hands or voting WITH the Dems, as McClintock did. I guess he wanted to send the message, that he is WITH the Dems against all other Republicans.
22 posted on 12/06/2003 12:01:20 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: goldstategop
Me too!
23 posted on 12/06/2003 12:03:15 PM PST by Old Jarhead 46 (Eternal vigilance is the price of Liberty! - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Nathaniel Fischer
"Is it too much to ask that we just move in the right direction (toward smaller government)?"

==

Please tell me how we would move towards smaller government if one of the Dems defeats Bush in 2004?
24 posted on 12/06/2003 12:03:24 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
LOL.. Keep jabbing, ya might hit something eventually.

It would appear we all have axes to grind these days.

Republicans and conservatives; democRats and liberals, are not necessarily the same thing.

Tom has never changed his stance, obviously a lot of Republicans have.

25 posted on 12/06/2003 12:03:50 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: FairOpinion
The bond measure was bad policy, and McClintock had vowed to vote against it for that reason since Arnold proposed it.
26 posted on 12/06/2003 12:33:43 PM PST by TheAngryClam (Don't blame me, I voted for McClintock.)
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To: FairOpinion
So are you one of the people who were mad at the Republicans who voted against Pete Wilson's massive tax hikes in 1991, because he was a Republican governor?
27 posted on 12/06/2003 12:35:08 PM PST by TheAngryClam (Don't blame me, I voted for McClintock.)
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To: FairOpinion
Please tell me how creating an enormous new entitlement program moves us closer to small government. Or is that even your goal?
28 posted on 12/06/2003 12:43:18 PM PST by Nathaniel Fischer (Herman Cain for Senate!)
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To: FairOpinion
You implied that if conservative Republicans succssfully opposed Bush's Medicare bill we would probably end up with the Democrat version.
29 posted on 12/06/2003 12:45:18 PM PST by Nathaniel Fischer (Herman Cain for Senate!)
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To: FirstPrinciple; FairOpinion
Fair Opinion is a centrist RINO, who doesn't understand politics or policy. He believes borrowing $15 billion is the answer to California's economic woes and and creating a new $400 billion federal entitlement program is proper policy for a GOP Congress and President. Such acts may bring short term politcal gains, but in the long term its fiscally irresponsible policy.
30 posted on 12/06/2003 12:51:25 PM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: Quicksilver
"I'm not familiar with California legislature procedures. Is there some sort of strategery by abstaining versus voting for, or against? Maybe the Republicans are simply sitting on the sidelines and letting the Democrats and the Governator battle it out?"

I think the Republicans voted against the bill because they wanted a STRONGER one with more spending caps....go figure...

31 posted on 12/06/2003 2:14:45 PM PST by spokeshave (Cancel the San Jose Merc and the one way truck to NV)
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To: Reagan Man
Sure, anyone who doesn't think the Republicans should be allowing themselves to be steamrolled by Democrats is RINO.

The only great conservatives are the ones who work against Republicans and vote exactly with the Democrats.

That is according to your definition.

So who is the RINO around here?
32 posted on 12/06/2003 2:49:30 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: giotto
I don't know...If I were McClintock, I might wonder how I wound up siding with Democrats.

McClintock voted against the Democratic counterproposal.

In sum, McClintock voted against approving more debt to fuel a bloated government. Twice.

Good on him.

33 posted on 12/06/2003 2:57:14 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: FairOpinion
>>>So who is the RINO around here?

The title of centrist RINO, belongs to the likes of you and your fellow centrist RINO's that dwell here on conservative FreeRepublic. You are not a conservative, by any stretch of the imagination. I told you a long time ago, winning at any price is not the sign of a true conservative. You may have to compromise at times, but principled pragmatism is a long way from your idea of selling out. Now that Schwarznegger has won, he has to govern and as events are showing, it won't be easy. I still wish Arnold the best. As for you, I can only laugh at your silly spinning. I have no idea how this will turn out, but it'll be fun to watch.

34 posted on 12/06/2003 3:00:10 PM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: FairOpinion
One of the greatest Republicans, Reagan, frequently vetoed excessive spending bills; Bush has never vetoed a bill. BTW, Reagan won reelection in one of the biggest landslides in American history.

My end goal is smaller government, while it seems all you really care about is electing more Republicans. In many cases those goals are compatible, but when they are not it is reasonable for true conservatives to take actions that may cause short-term harm to the Republican party.
35 posted on 12/06/2003 3:00:51 PM PST by Nathaniel Fischer (Herman Cain for Senate!)
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To: ridesthemiles
I agree, the Dems blew it big time. Arnold will get the signatures to place a spending cap propositon on the November ballot. It will pass quite easily.

He wanted the $15 mil bond issue to get through the squeeze for this year and next due to the mess that the Dem legislature and former governor got us into. It was not because he wanted to spend lots of money.

Now, without the bond measure, he will be cutting spending left and right for the rest of this fiscal year ending 6/30 any where he is legally able. Plus, he has a line item veto. So, when the Dems send him a budget next June or July, then he can slash the hell out of it.

No matter how you cut it, Arnold did the right thing. He comes out looking like a hero and the Dem legislature like a bunch of jerks. In the end, this may be better than passing the bond issue as it may force even greater cuts in state spending.

The Dems still have a couple of days next week to change their mind. I would not be surprised if they do. As for McClintock, he will hang himself with his totally dogmatic position. There was a man who had an opportunity to be a hero and advance himself. I was a supporter for years. Now, I just shake my head at his stupidity.
36 posted on 12/06/2003 3:14:16 PM PST by CdMGuy
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To: Nathaniel Fischer
PresReagan veto'd 23 bills in his first three years in office and as you correctly stated, PresBush has veto'd zero bills.
37 posted on 12/06/2003 3:14:27 PM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: FairOpinion
So who is the RINO around here?

You. And I am being generous.

38 posted on 12/06/2003 3:29:58 PM PST by FirstPrinciple
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To: Nathaniel Fischer; Reagan Man
"My end goal is smaller government, while it seems all you really care about is electing more Republicans."

===

What apparently you don't seem to get, is that if we do not elect more Republicans, that means we elect more Democrats who are against everything you claim you stand for. So why do you want to elect more Democrats?
39 posted on 12/06/2003 3:30:33 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FirstPrinciple
Sure 90% of the Republicans are all RINO-s, by your definition, and only the 10% who always UNDERMINE the other 905 and end up siding with the Democrats are the "true Republicans" -- as per your definition.
40 posted on 12/06/2003 3:31:59 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Thanks for showing your true colors.

Hb
41 posted on 12/06/2003 3:32:07 PM PST by Hoverbug
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To: CdMGuy
I was a supporter for years.

LOL!

Sure you were.

42 posted on 12/06/2003 3:32:54 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: FairOpinion
Psst. McClintock voted against the Democratic proposal.
43 posted on 12/06/2003 3:34:12 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: Kevin Curry
McClintock also voted with the Democrats against Arnold proposal. The only Repulican in the Senate to do so -- all other Republicans had at least the decency to abstain.


"There were 14 votes against the governor's proposal: those of 13 Democrats and Sen. Tom McClintock (R-Thousand Oaks)."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1035237/posts
44 posted on 12/06/2003 3:37:00 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Politics makes strange bedfellows. I am sure you have heard of that. It is possible for conservatives and liberals to agree on something coming from totally different directions. But, what do you call a move that actually asks conservatives to vote for increasing the size of the govt? It is called selling out/infiltrating. Bushism/RINOism has infiltrated the Republican party and must be defeated at all costs.
45 posted on 12/06/2003 3:39:52 PM PST by FirstPrinciple
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To: FairOpinion
McClintock voted against funding a bloated government with more debt. If you are a conservative, why does that anger you?
46 posted on 12/06/2003 3:40:07 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: Kevin Curry
Thank God for people like McClintock. Can we clone him and have thirty more of him in the CA Senate? He is such a bright and intelligent guy. I wish Californians had enough brain-power to elect him.
47 posted on 12/06/2003 3:43:33 PM PST by FirstPrinciple
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To: FairOpinion
Yes, all the oters except McCintock are gutless wonders. Their job is to vote, not abstain.

Keep diggin'

Hb
48 posted on 12/06/2003 4:19:29 PM PST by Hoverbug
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To: FairOpinion
. I guess he wanted to send the message, that he is WITH the Dems against all other Republicans.

Here is a perfect example of your spin. Tom voted against it because he was against spending. The dems voted against it because it had a spending cap and didn't contain enough spending.

Now you come along and slam Tom, saying he's with the democrats "against all other Republicans".

Didn't "all other Republicans" later change their vote and vote the same way as Tom? Are they siding with dems against "all other Republicans?" How come you're not blasing them like you are Tom?

You either have absolutely NO idea of what this whole thing was about, or worse yet, you do and lied about it, trying to sway opinion againt McClintock.

Either way, your "fair opinion" is worthless.

Hb

49 posted on 12/06/2003 4:53:08 PM PST by Hoverbug
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To: Hoverbug; FairOpinion
bump
cat got yer tongue?

Hb
50 posted on 12/06/2003 6:46:32 PM PST by Hoverbug
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