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One In Six Still Feels A Woman's Place Is At Home
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 12-9-2003 | Sarah Womack

Posted on 12/08/2003 6:05:43 PM PST by blam

One in six still feels a woman's place is at home

By Sarah Womack, Social Affairs Correspondent
(Filed: 09/12/2003)

One in six people still believes a woman's place is in the home, according to an authoritative survey of social attitudes funded by the Government.

The figure represents a dramatic fall since 1983, when 25 per cent thought women should be full-time mothers, but it represents a "sizeable minority", says the National Centre for Social Research.

Most of those who held traditional views were grandparents struggling to look after grandchildren while their daughters went out to work.

The survey's findings come hot on the heels of books such as The Surrendered Wife by Laura Doyle, and The Smart Woman's Guide to Staying at Home by Melissa Hill, which challenge the wisdom that it is disastrous to a woman's psychological health to stay at home.

The British Social Attitudes Survey, based on 2,000 in-depth interviews and conducted by the National Centre for Social Research, looks at how attitudes have changed towards a range of issues from the welfare state to transport.

It found that while attitudes towards working mothers had become "more positive", there was still a sizeable minority of people who perceived a woman's role as raising children at home.

Broken down by gender, the survey found that a fifth of men thought women should be at home compared to one in seven women. The older the person polled, the more likely they were to see a woman's role as the traditional home-based one.

Katarina Thomson, a co-director of the BSA, said many of those who felt women should be at home were over the age of 55 and probably grandparents.

She added: "Previous research shows that looking after grandchildren tends to be particularly stressful for younger grandparents."

"Their own parents may still be alive and sometimes these grandparents even have a job of their own."

The number of people who disapprove of working mothers increases considerably when the working mother in question has children under the age of five.

More than half the men polled said women should stay at home in these circumstances. Almost half of women (46 per cent) said the same.

Reality tells a different story, however. Six in 10 women with children under the age of five go out to work, encouraged by various Government initiatives.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: home; one; place; six; womans

1 posted on 12/08/2003 6:05:44 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
If you can do it, either parent should stay home until the kid starts school.
2 posted on 12/08/2003 6:14:11 PM PST by TheSpottedOwl (I'd rather have dead rats in my walls, than Hillary for President.,)
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To: blam
I would love to see the actual questions and methodology of this survey.

That said, I'm against anyone out of the home except me.
3 posted on 12/08/2003 6:14:15 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (When laws are regularly flouted, respect of the law and law enforcement diminishes correspondingly.)
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To: blam
So if I agree, would that make it 2 in 7 thinkin' that?

:^)
4 posted on 12/08/2003 6:15:24 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat (www.firethebcs.com, www.weneedaplayoff.com, www.firemackbrown.com, www.firecarlreese.com)
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To: blam
if the tax burden was what it was in the 50's, we'd all be living the life of ozzie and harriet.

nope, now, even grampa has to work beyond what he'd thought. oh, and gramma.

oh, and mom.

some of us are fortunate to have stay at home mommies for their kids. sadly, not enough of us are that fortunate, and especially sadly, the urban homes that need parental guidance the most are burdened, even with "progressive" taxes.

socialism at work.

we all lose.
5 posted on 12/08/2003 6:15:30 PM PST by glock rocks (molon labe)
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To: blam
I don't know if I'd say "place". After all, it's difficult to "afford" children and taxes without both parents working. But, it's best if one parent can stay home, and I'm going to be old fashioned and say that most women have an unexplainable knack to do a better job, day in and day out, raising their children one-on-one.
6 posted on 12/08/2003 6:17:00 PM PST by YoungKentuckyConservative
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To: glock rocks
socialism at work. we all lose.

Correction: The majority lose. The elite win. And they win BIG TIME!

7 posted on 12/08/2003 6:18:12 PM PST by YoungKentuckyConservative
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To: blam
I love.....yes.....LOVE staying home with my children. They drive me crazy. I have more grey hair than I ever thought imaginable at age 29, but I would not even consider going back to work at this time. They are both beautiful, amazing girls whose brains and amount of affection they have for me and their daddy never cease to amaze me. For the life of me I can't imagine why some people want to work. I understand having to work, but I don't understand wanting to miss your children grow.
8 posted on 12/08/2003 6:18:44 PM PST by volchef (Don't take a butcher's advice on how to cook meat. If he knew, he'd be a chef. - Andy Rooney)
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To: blam
It would be great if Mom could stay home with the kids, but that isn't reality in most cases now. Sad, but true.
9 posted on 12/08/2003 6:19:12 PM PST by ladyinred (The Left have blood on their hands!)
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To: blam
A woman's place is where a man's is: supporting her children and family.

What a concept...I guess it goes against the current "I want to find myself" mode of most women.
10 posted on 12/08/2003 6:20:58 PM PST by dinok
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To: dinok
My wife did not fare well in the corporate world, but she has hit full stride staying at home with our two daughters.
11 posted on 12/08/2003 6:23:02 PM PST by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: YoungKentuckyConservative
Correction: The majority lose. The elite win. And they win BIG TIME!

I'll go half way with ya on that one. the majority lose. the elite have a hornet's nest in their underware.

in 50 years, when all us rednecks have been culled, you might be right.

12 posted on 12/08/2003 6:32:59 PM PST by glock rocks (molon labe)
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To: blam
HA! Just wait till career mom is 55 and her 17 year old daughter pops a kid out (seeing as mom was never around to instill a sense of morals in the little slut) and winds up getting that kid dumped on her. Perhaps THEN it will dawn on her that staying home to raise your own kids is the better path to take. I wouldn't bet money on it though.
13 posted on 12/08/2003 6:33:17 PM PST by Capt. Canuck
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To: blam
Looks like they reached out to the ROP!!
14 posted on 12/08/2003 6:33:58 PM PST by Coroner
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To: blam
A wife belongs in the home, specifically, the kitchen and bedroom and my wife totally agrees. By the way, we're very happily married (needless to say).
15 posted on 12/08/2003 6:33:59 PM PST by Contra
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To: TheSpottedOwl
Damn, you beat me! And you're dead on about having a parent stay home. Less than that dedication, whether people want to pretend it is 'necessary' or not, is not parenting but fundraising. Your kids deserve both your time and your money. You don't have to be wealthy to provide children with everything they need, though you might not be able to provide them with all they want...which is always way more than they need, anyway.

Still, I'm still looking forward to meeting a family in which the man stays home and is a full-time housekeeper. Women I've met uniformly insist that regardless of their income, they should stay home, not from any logical reason but from a reflexively selfish 'if anyone stays home with the kids it'll be ME' attitude.

Makes me think of that great song of Tom T. Hall's:

He said, "Women think about they-selves, when menfolk ain’t around.
And friends are hard to find, when they discover that you’re down.
I tried it all when I was young and in my natural prime;
Now it’s old dogs, and children, and watermelon wine."
16 posted on 12/08/2003 6:35:25 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (When laws are regularly flouted, respect of the law and law enforcement diminishes correspondingly.)
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To: dinok
"I guess it goes against the current "I want to find myself" mode of most women."

I had one of those. Our son and I made our way without her since he was four years old. He has a PhD in physics and an excellent job now.

17 posted on 12/08/2003 6:37:04 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Women need to calculate the cost of working. By the time they pay taxes (possibly at a high rate), babysitter, gas, wear and tear on the car, extra clothes, lunches and other expenses they would find they really bring home doodly squat

I once had a high power 6 figure career but driving between offices I would listen to Dr. Laura and her "mom's should home" rant. Well, she got to me, I quit, and we are having so much more fun in our lives. The money didn't make us a better family, the time together did.

The feminist kept telling my generation it was all about my wants. They were so wrong. Happiness in life is a do unto others thing.

18 posted on 12/08/2003 6:37:07 PM PST by lizma
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To: blam
Six in 10 women with children under the age of five go out to work, encouraged by various Government initiatives.

Isn't that the way government operates? Encouraging the very behavior that isn't best for the society as a whole.. such as rewarding those that have more and more children out of wedlock etc.

19 posted on 12/08/2003 6:37:14 PM PST by Zipporah
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To: glock rocks
It's not really a choice anymore.

Most moms and dads have to work just to pay for everything, and the endless taxes just compound the problem.

Many people are paying $1,000 to $2500 a month nowadays just for a monthly mortgage payment. This alone is crippling.

Add one or two car payments, taxes, food, kids, insurance, credit cards, and wammo, everyone is working around the clock...It's a tag team.

Kinda sad, and very stressful.

We've personally got out of all debt and plan on staying out of debt at all cost.

20 posted on 12/08/2003 6:40:50 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: blam
Let's not forget that a man's place is in the home also; just different hours. Be father's to your kids, y'all.
21 posted on 12/08/2003 6:41:48 PM PST by yooper
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To: glock rocks
There are some women here in the US who work because they want to , not because they have to.

I know many women who could afford to stay home. That is if they put their children's needs before their own wants.

22 posted on 12/08/2003 6:47:48 PM PST by Diva Betsy Ross
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To: Joe Hadenuf
We've personally got out of all debt and plan on staying out of debt at all cost.

I really wonder if my kids can survive if I don't set them up with a house, etc.

time was when a college savings account might be what you saved for beyond the mortagage.

even if I'm fortunate enough to provide this for my kids... what the hey are the children
of those who can't afford that kind of look-ahead for them gonna do to survive?

that's what scares me.

23 posted on 12/08/2003 6:54:44 PM PST by glock rocks (molon labe)
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To: blam
Thanks to our redistributionist government, both husband and wife must work these days to have a minimum lifestyle. One to buy the food and housing, and the other to pay the taxes.

I am just thankful that I was able to hold out as the sole breadwinner until 1985, while my wife raised the children.

But now, thanks again to the policies of our federal government, I have been unemployed for over a year, while my wife supports us.

The only good thing is that we're so poor due to overtaxation that we don't have to pay much in the way of taxes.

There must be some karma in that.

24 posted on 12/08/2003 6:56:04 PM PST by snopercod (The federal government will spend $21,000 per household in 2003, up from $16,000 in 1999.)
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To: TheSpottedOwl
Your Tag line -- funny... I'd rather have LIVE rats in my walls than Hillary for President!
25 posted on 12/08/2003 7:00:10 PM PST by HeSetUsFree
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To: blam
You can bet they didnt ask the kids. That would be nearer to 90 per cent that would want ma home. All those precious jobs are heading overseas anyway, where workers dont need free day care and time off for sick kids.
26 posted on 12/08/2003 7:02:21 PM PST by Evil Inc
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To: lizma
Beautifully Said!
27 posted on 12/08/2003 7:04:42 PM PST by HeSetUsFree
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To: TheSpottedOwl
If they would have polled the children sitting in day-cares the number would have been six in six.
28 posted on 12/08/2003 7:06:37 PM PST by Lizavetta (Savage was right. Extreme liberalness is a mental disorder)
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To: volchef
LOVE staying home with my children.

Me too! I'm a late bloomer when it comes to kids and am in my 40's. And for some reason only my eyebrows have gone grey.

Contrary to the feminist, a women's biggest pleasure is not making money and having a major career, it's raising kidlets. They're a hoot. A blessing that your job can never take the place of.

29 posted on 12/08/2003 7:08:49 PM PST by lizma
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To: YoungKentuckyConservative
My wife, who is a stay at home mom, used to tell me she felt guilty spending money "that I made". I told her she was crazy and that my conclusion was she earned more of my paycheck than I did. She stays at home with our 3 and 1 on the way. We will start homeschooling next year.

It only took one short Saturday afternoon with just me watching the kids by myself to come to that conclusion. Lord how I love them ... but man what a job!

30 posted on 12/08/2003 7:13:53 PM PST by Down South P.E.
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Most moms and dads have to work just to pay for everything

Depends on what falls under the category of "everything". I agree wholeheartedly that taxes and mortgages are high, but when "everything" includes cable or dish tv, cell phones, newer model cars, brand new clothing, expensive food choices, eating out, vacations, etc. I lose a lot of sympathy.

I'm watching my brother and his wife daycare their infant cause they had to have two new cars and a $200,000 mortgage. She couldn't stand apartment living anymore, y'see. They go out, spend on clothes, etc.... They consider themselves without luxuries. It's a tragedy for that little boy who has hired help instead of a mom.

Nobody deserves their 'stuff' more than a child deserves a mother.

31 posted on 12/08/2003 7:18:36 PM PST by Lizavetta (Savage was right. Extreme liberalness is a mental disorder)
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To: blam
Well? Isn't it? Wish I'd known better and stayed at home! For that reason, I make sure I'm here for my grandkids as much as possible. Bet the numbers are truly much higher. Hi Blam, haven't seen you around in quite some time - of course - I haven't been online much...
32 posted on 12/08/2003 7:18:41 PM PST by tinacart ((I STILL hate hitlery!))
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To: blam
"...said many of those who felt women should be at home were over the age of 55 and probably grandparents."

Sorry you priggish brit, I'm not even 50 - nananananah! (OK, I am a grandma, the greatest job God ever gave me!)
33 posted on 12/08/2003 7:21:07 PM PST by tinacart ((I STILL hate hitlery!))
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To: Lizavetta
It's a tragedy for that little boy who has hired help instead of a mom.

I also think it is very sad.

34 posted on 12/08/2003 7:37:19 PM PST by Lady Eileen
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To: glock rocks
It's really tough nowadays for a lot of middle and lower middle class folks. I would bet the rent, that the only hope for a lot of kids in the future to ever own a home, will be to inherit one from their folks.... Many younger adults can't even afford rent for an apartment.

Bottom line, is it's just harder to get by nowadays, and that's with everyone working.

35 posted on 12/08/2003 7:40:10 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: tinacart
"Hi Blam, haven't seen you around in quite some time - of course - I haven't been online much..."

Howdy, I've been here, where have you been?

36 posted on 12/08/2003 7:44:48 PM PST by blam
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To: Down South P.E.
My wife, who is a stay at home mom, used to tell me she felt guilty spending money "that I made"

Your wife is an incredibly rare woman.

Most women don't have the slightest scruple about spending their husband's or boyfriend's money; in fact, they believe that is their birthright.

37 posted on 12/08/2003 7:49:54 PM PST by WackyKat
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To: blam
I believe the woman belongs in the home. That being said, I think she should have the ability to stay home whether or not she has children. The husband should make enough money to keep her in the style to which she has become accustomed.
38 posted on 12/08/2003 8:23:45 PM PST by giznort
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To: Lizavetta
What you said is so true and so beautiful yet sad. I cannot imagine for the life of me putting an infant in anyone else's care but my own.

If you absolutely must work to put food on the table and clothing on the backs then that person deserves all the help they can get and rightly so.

However, I find it hard to understand how someone "has" to work when we pass them on the highways in the early mornings in the cold winter driving BMW's and the like. We had one car and it was a chevy and when I needed it my husband drove to work with someone else and left me the car for the day.

We didn't even have a color TV until 12 years AFTER we were married. I didn't have a microwave either ... I had a stove and oven. No self defrost refrig either. I also washed, hung on the line and folded baby diapers. Waxed floors and had a cardboard box with a nice towel in it for our dog. No fancy dog bed. Just a cardboard box. He loved it by the way and slept soundly in it every night until we decided it was Ok for him to sleep with the kids and the kids loved him as we all did.

We saved $60 cash for our daughter's youth bed and made a big deal out of it so that she wouldn't feel left out when she left her crib so her new baby brother could use it. We also brought her a doll home from the hospital so she could have her own new baby as well.

All the while my husband was working a part time job in addition to his military job. He later decided to attend night school and over 16 years of Monday, Wednesday or Tuesday, Thursday and more for his Master's finally completed his degrees. It was tough. It was hard but we did what we had to do to try and secure our future.

He was/still is a good dad. Worked his military job during the day, went to school at night, got up in the wee hours of the morning to study and was a father to our children and a good, loving husband to me.

We had what we had and that was it. But...we had the money for our kids, our dog and for Christmas and birthdays and for other holidays like Valentine's Day...we made paper hearts and put red dye in the milk and things like that. I'll never forget the sight of our daughter at the dinner table in her bathrobe because she had been sick with a bad cold and on her head was a plastic wig she had gotten for a birthday present.

Or the sight of our son with his GI Joes and Major Matt Mason action figures. He grew up to be a kind, good, loving man and his sister grew up to be a kind, good, loving woman. As for our dog...we lost him after almost 16 years. We never replaced him but we did have 4 dogs after him and our current one we rescued from the humane society.

So, while we did not take vacations every spring break (and now fall break) we did pile in the car with the kids and the dog and drive non-stop to visit our parents on the opposite side of the country. The kids played in the back, read, colored in their coloring books and took naps and ate junk...yes junk. They survived.

Sorry, didn't mean to go on but...it is puzzling to me why on spring break kids just can't go out and have fun at home and not travel on a plane to Disney or somewhere else. You can't even go into a restaurant hardly anymore without playthings for kids to keep them amused. What about jsut stting there talking and learning manners? Like yes plese, no thank you, Thank you, Excuse me? Pardon me. I'm sorry. Hello Mrs. so and so or Hello Mr. so and so. I'm pleased to meet you. It was nice meeting you, etc.

Guess I'm old fashioned but I'm glad I was and glad I am to this day. If you dont' have to work don't!!! If you do, you deserve all the help you can get. When I see as I said above driving babies to day care centers on cold, snowy mornings in BMW's and then seeing someone standing and freezing in the cold waiting for the bus to go to work...well, I see a BIG DIFFERENCE there folks. A BIG Difference. God bless all the children.
39 posted on 12/08/2003 8:27:10 PM PST by cubreporter (I trust Rush...he will prevail in spite of the naysayers)
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To: blam
My wife is one of those, but since the kid is gone, I say she damn well better work, I mean somebody has to.
40 posted on 12/08/2003 8:31:51 PM PST by nkycincinnatikid
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To: Lizavetta
You've got it exactly right. My husband and I are in our 40's so maybe we've got our heads screwed on a little tighter - we're not trendy anymore - but I would not give up being a full-time mom for anything.

Our son is now in first grade and I pick up a few freelance jobs as a television producer that allow me to write and work while he is in school. On those odd days I have to be on-location, his dad takes a vacation day to free me up to work crazy, long days. Otherwise, I'm there everyday to make his lunch, see him to and from the school bus and have milk and graham crackers and talk about his day after school. Children's' reactions to events at school are sometimes pretty subtle on the surface, unless you catch them in a "safe" moment. When things are fresh some pretty memorable lessons can be lost in the rush that is life. Countering some liberal teacher's statement is crucial.

I realize we are very fortunate, for the time being. My husband does pretty well, though we are not wealthy by any means. We've got a home we love (not the liberal neighborhood surrounding it, that's another story!) that's getting a bit beyond our means with successive 13% ('03) and 15% ('04)property tax increases.

We have never owned a cell phone. We don't have cable or dish. Books are better. Our vehicles are of the '90 and '95 persuasion and I make a mean lasagna or some such dish 6 days out of 7. Vacations pretty much amount to visiting relatives, though I hope to travel more. It was a staple of my childhood. It's wonderful to see all of America so that is a goal of ours.

That rant said, I understand the double-edged sword that is motherhood today. I was under contract to see a series I was working on to finish and worked full-time from the time my son was 6 months until he was 2 1/2 years old. They were very difficult days, but the cash we socked away being frugal is still seeing us through today.
41 posted on 12/08/2003 8:34:07 PM PST by mplsconservative
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To: cubreporter
Beautifully said, cubreporter. I guess you were as compelled as I was to compose a long reply. (; This is a subject that touches the heart of every mother, especially FR moms! Once again, I want to say I am fortunate and thankful to God I am able to be home. My heart goes out to other mothers that truly can't afford to stay at home. I pray for the same blessing to you that I am able to enjoy. When our '90's vehciles breakdown, I'll be working side-by-side with you to make that car payment. And I'll still be a conservative that understands the value of work. Sacrifice for family, not for "things" that make us supposedly "happy."
Huzzah to all moms, working out of the house and in the house!
Suz
42 posted on 12/08/2003 9:00:51 PM PST by mplsconservative
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To: blam
Interesting article.

Why don't they survey the kids who get stuck in daycare centers, shuffled from stranger to stranger?
43 posted on 12/08/2003 9:12:30 PM PST by bdeaner
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To: mplsconservative
Amen!
44 posted on 12/09/2003 4:39:38 PM PST by cubreporter (I trust Rush...he will prevail in spite of the naysayers)
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To: bdeaner
same reason they call an unborn baby a fetus: facing reality is unpleasant and interupts their reading of Cosmo.
45 posted on 12/09/2003 4:41:54 PM PST by KantianBurke (Don't Tread on Me)
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To: KantianBurke
same reason they call an unborn baby a fetus: facing reality is unpleasant and interupts their reading of Cosmo.

You sure hit the nail on the head. God forbid parents actually face the reality that we have created a world that is fundamentally hostile to children, born and unborn. Such degeneracy can only be a sign of cultural pathology.
46 posted on 12/09/2003 5:13:50 PM PST by bdeaner
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