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Meet the Greedy Grandparents
Slate ^ | Dec. 10, 2003 | Steve Chapman

Posted on 12/11/2003 10:48:56 AM PST by luckydevi

When Social Security was founded, offering a federal pension at age 65, most of the people born 65 years earlier couldn't take advantage of it. They were dead. For the lucky ones who lived long enough to collect, the new pension system, founded in 1935, was meant as a modest support in the brief span before they passed on to glory. No more. Since then, life expectancy at birth in America has increased to more than 77 years. For the majority of people, that means lots of time being supported by the government. A working life is now just a tedious interregnum between two long periods of comfortable dependence.

America's elderly have never had it so good. They enjoy better health than any previous generation of old people, high incomes and ample assets, access to a host of medical treatments that not only keep them alive but let them enjoy their extra years, and a riotous multitude of ways to spoil their grandchildren. Still they are not content. From gratefully accepting a basic level of assistance back in the early decades of Social Security, America's elderly have come to expect everything their durable little hearts desire.

They often get their way, as they did recently when years of complaints finally induced Congress and the president to agree to bear much of the cost of their prescription drugs. From the tenor of the debate, you would think these medications were a terrible burden inflicted by an uncaring fate. In fact, past generations of old people didn't have to make room in their budgets for pharmaceuticals because there weren't many to buy. If you suffered from high cholesterol, chronic heartburn, or depression, you were left to primitive remedies, or none. Today, there are pills and potions for just about any complaint—except the chronic complaint that many of them are pricey. It's not enough to be blessed with medical miracles. Modern seniors also want them cheap, if not free.

That's on top of everything else they get. Retirement benefits used to be just one of the federal government's many maternal functions. But in recent years, the federal government has begun to look like an appendage of Social Security. In 2000, 35 percent of all federal spending dollars went to Social Security and Medicare. By 2040, barring an increase in total federal outlays, they'll account for more than 60 percent of the budget. And that's before you add in the prescription drug benefit. Most of the projected growth is due to rising health-care costs, not to the aging of the population, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Retirees eyeing this bounty feel no pangs of guilt, thanks to their unshakable conviction that they earned every dime by sweat and toil. In fact, economists Laurence Kotlikoff and Jagadeesh Gokhale say that a typical man reaching age 65 today will get a net windfall of more than $70,000 over his remaining years. A luckless 25-year-old, by contrast, can count on paying $322,000 more in payroll taxes than he will ever get back in benefits.

Why do we keep indulging the grizzled ones? The most obvious reason is that they are so tireless and well-organized in demanding alms. No politician ever lost an election because he was too generous to little old ladies. A lot of people are suckered by the image of financially strapped seniors, even though the poverty rate among those 65 and over has been lower than that for the population as a whole since 1974. But it's not just the interests of old coots that are being served here. Young and middle-aged adults tend to look kindly upon lavish federal generosity to Grandma because it means she won't be hitting them up for help. Paying taxes may be onerous, but it's nothing compared to the cost, financial and otherwise, of adding a mother-in-law suite to the house. Working-age folks also assume that whatever they bestow upon today's seniors will be likewise bestowed on them, and in the not too distant future. It's not really fair to blame the greatest generation for this extravagance. They are guilty, but they have an accomplice.

It's surely no coincidence that the new drug benefit is being enacted just as the first baby boomers are nearing retirement age. Nor can it be forgotten that the organization formerly known as the American Association of Retired People—it's now just AARP—has lately broadened its membership to include all the boomers it can get its wrinkled hands on. AARP, to the surprise of many, endorsed the plan. And what a surprise it is that the prescription drug program, which will cost some $400 billion over the next 10 years, could balloon to $2 trillion in the 10 years following that—when guess-who will be collecting. You would expect taxpayers in their peak earning years to recoil in horror from a program that will vastly increase Washington's fiscal obligations for decades to come. In fact, they—make that we—can see that the time to lock in a prosperous old age is now, before twentysomethings know what's hit them.

Boomers have gotten our way every since we arrived in this world, and the onset of gray hair, bifocals, and arthritis is not going to moderate our unswerving self-indulgence. We are the same people, after all, who forced the lowering of the drinking age when we were young, so we could drink, and forced it back up when we got older, so our kids couldn't. On top of that, we're used to the best of everything, and plenty of it. We weren't dubbed the Me Generation because we neglect our own needs, Junior. If politicians think the current geezers are greedy, they ain't seen nothin' yet.

But responsible middle-aged sorts may yet be brought to their senses when they realize that their usual impulse to get all they can will sooner or later collide with another boomer obsession: the insatiable desire to furnish our kids with every advantage known to humanity. Load Social Security with more obligations than it can bear, and our precious offspring will be squashed under the weight. To fund all the obligations of the Social Security system, payroll taxes will have to more than double by 2040—on top of whatever it costs to buy all those prescription drugs. At that point, our children will realize the trick we've pulled and start to hate our guts. That would be a cruel blow to a generation that thinks of itself as the most wonderful parents in history.

To avoid that fate, boomers need to recognize the need to stop writing checks that today's youngsters will have to cash. With the eager help of our own parents, we've created an entitlement that is fast becoming unaffordable. To bring Social Security into conformity with reality, we'll have to resign ourselves to a higher retirement age reflecting our prospective vigor and life expectancy. We'll have to accept more stringent controls on Medicare spending and take more responsibility for our own medical needs. We'll have to abandon our assumption that the point of the health-care system is to keep each of us alive forever. At some point—don't worry, not anytime soon—we will have to embrace a duty to stop functioning as a fiscal burden on our children and start serving as a nutritional resource for worms.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: medicare; prescriptionswindle; socialsecurity
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To: Mr. Bird
Agreed. I've been for something that looks like this as well and I am a 30 something too.
51 posted on 12/11/2003 12:52:11 PM PST by cupcakes
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To: luckydevi
Aw gee ! What a (censored) shame !

Damn greedy old grandparents won't just quietly jump off a cliff, or commit hara kiri ,or something - taking care,of course, to leave their ill-gotten wealth to their children.

What's that you say ?

They don't HAVE any great wealth ??

They spent most of it on their children and grandchildren???

Humph ! Guess they were STUPID, too !!!
52 posted on 12/11/2003 12:54:34 PM PST by genefromjersey (So little time - so many FLAMES to light !!)
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To: wtc911
This emotional pathology is shared across an entire generation. I know few who feel differently about the boomer generation.

The real emotional pathology that needs investigation is the astonishing narcissism of the baby boomers.

I assume from your response that you are a baby boomer, because everyone else has at least a basic understanding of just how horrific the boomer legacy has been. Boomers themselves, self-absorption being their defining trait, would naturally be ignorant of this.

Take a step back and see what you are suggesting. Murdering 40 million children is not a pathology, but well-justified anger over it is? That's no different in nature to suggesting that the problem with the Holocaust lies with the Jews.
53 posted on 12/11/2003 12:57:17 PM PST by thoughtomator (The U.N. is a terrorist organization)
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To: 45Auto
Don't worry old people like yourself have much more power than the youth. Rather than take away your entitlement programs, the politicians are working hard to get your votes since old people vote at a higher percentage than the young.

Basically this will be the first generation to rob from the young to fund retirements golfing in Florida and Arizona. Democracy is not a guarantee for the moral correct thing being done...
54 posted on 12/11/2003 12:57:43 PM PST by optik_b
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To: luckydevi
I like the term greedy geezers better. Grandparents sounds less pejorative.
55 posted on 12/11/2003 1:01:15 PM PST by mewzilla
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To: Maria S
Oh Maria, blow it out of your butt and speak for yourself. I am a 30 something and I didn't get any of what you mentioned. I rode the bus for several years until I could afford a car independently and qualify for the loan. I had to resort to living with people I didn't much like to be able to have a roof over my head. My mother couldn't even pull herself away from the mirror long enough to tell me how to manage menses bleeding or shave my legs. In fact, my parents who didn't even give me the skills I needed to survive(I learned the hard way) were too damn busy taking care of themselves. They were counting on their fingers and toes until the days the dreaded children were gone. That 80's accesory they grew weary of. And for the kids I know who got that. They would have preferred a parent who gave a crap to all the stuff thrown at them to make up for it.

Ungrateful my tush. My mother who could have cared less for us is now living in *MY* home on *MY* dollar all obtained with no help financially or guidance from either one of my parents. She's still as self-centered as ever and it hurts like hell to know the type of person she is is the same person I knew as a teen. She can't even bring herself to play the grandmother role because she's not ready to be a grandma yet--rolling eyes. Yet, I allow her in my home and saved her tush when she was in trouble. A lot more than she ever did for me by a long shot. Spin your ungrateful child crap somewhere else. I for one am resentful that I am not only paying for my self-centered set of parental units but probably a couple of others as well.
56 posted on 12/11/2003 1:04:33 PM PST by cupcakes
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To: Beelzebubba
Exactly right. Because not all of us were spoiled and while our parents were hording $$ away for their own fun later, some of us were working in convenience stores to start our lives.
57 posted on 12/11/2003 1:07:59 PM PST by cupcakes
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To: thoughtomator
Thanks for saying that. This is what I was thinking.
58 posted on 12/11/2003 1:08:59 PM PST by cupcakes
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To: cupcakes
Another thing I was thinking (don't we all just sit around and mull over public policy?). Why not impose a mandatory retirement savings percentage for workers until they turn 30? Say, force the young workforce to funnel a significant portion of their gross pay into a retirement account. At age 30, the contribution becomes discretionary. The money is the individual's, but completely untouchable until the agreed upon arbitrary retirement age.

That would at least provide for the "safety net" so many bleeding hearts say we need. Personally, I would prefer total elimination of this type of thing, but if we're going to have it, the scheme needs to be improved upon.

59 posted on 12/11/2003 1:10:18 PM PST by Mr. Bird
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To: luckydevi
The problem is rather obvious. If a corporation or a union ran their pension plan the way that the government administers Social Security, the executives would be imprisoned for fraud and misappropriation of funds.

If my SS "forced contributions" were given to a private investment organization I would retire a millionaire on what I have is "contributed" and that of my employer. Living on what SS actually pays will put you well below the poverty level.

I disagree strongly with calling the "baby boomers" greedy. That is confusing the issue and laying the blame where it does not belong. The blame should be placed squarely on the shoulders of Congress/Government. They have betrayed the American people, demanding mandatory compliance and then squandering the proceeds.

If I purchased a retirement/disability plan when I was eighteen years old and payed into it for fifty years, contributing $200,000 dollars, which would have grown to over a million at simple interest, am I greedy to want more that a pitiful $1,000 a month?

Yes, I have grandchildren and children, and they will pay dearly for the looting that has taken place over the years by the criminal, liberal minded politicians.

I pray that the anger will be directed at those that deserve the name, "greedy", not at those who are not getting what they paid for.

Pitting one generation against another is not a solution, but mere smoke and mirrors sent to hide the real culprit.

I hope that I see the day that my children and grandchildren will say enough is enough and refuse to have their money stolen from them by corrupt politicians to buy votes.

I won't be "greedy" however. I will merely move in with one of them. I have made prior arrangements in case the government can no longer honor it's commitments.

Let's just put the blame where it belongs.

blessings,

bobo1

60 posted on 12/11/2003 1:10:46 PM PST by bobo1
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To: genefromjersey
That's an extremely stupid post considering:

1)Your family is YOUR business.
2)If someone spent money up on you, that's THEIR mistake. No one told them to spend themselves out of their retirement to satisfy you.
3)Most people did not spend that much money on their kids. I have never gotten a new car for graduation or my birthday.
4)Besides the fact that not everyone was that much of an "expense" no one is telling old people to die. But why do they think they are entitled to other peoples money?
5)The "elderly" are the richest class in America. They aren't starving or dying.
6)You're an idiot
7)These are not people you are related to. If they had a program that took from you and put into an individual account that paid DIRECTLY for your own parents, then you'd have a point. But the government wastes the money on a huge bureaucracy and a labyrinth of agencies and regs and entitlements.
8)When did FR become home to socialists?
61 posted on 12/11/2003 1:14:15 PM PST by Skywalk
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To: Alberta's Child
Start a business, pay yourself a meager, subsistence-level salary, and take out most of your earnings in dividends

Have you actually done this? I owned my own business and I remember they hit me up for an equivilant of SSI to put into SSI -- based on gross profits.

But maybe I disremember....

62 posted on 12/11/2003 1:14:26 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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To: cupcakes
Sounds familiar. I worked my tail off one summer at the age of 14, only to have Pop take my savings to go buy stuff. Spoiled indeed.

But to be fair: just as many of us young folk weren't showered with riches, there are many responsible Boomers who want the Social Security beast destroyed as much as we do. We should be careful, painting our generational counterparts with broad brushes....
63 posted on 12/11/2003 1:14:46 PM PST by Mr. Bird
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To: 45Auto
What kinda amazes me is that I personally know of two people that never even cash their social security checks. They don't need to, they have a lot of money, and it goes right into their savings and investment accounts. Maybe they'll pass it down to their kids someday. I don't know. It just seems rather strange as they have deposited these checks for years now....
64 posted on 12/11/2003 1:15:21 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: thoughtomator
You're kidding yourself and seem deeply troubled. The violent ideation that your posts contain indicate that there is much more going on with you than some self-congratulatory sense of outrage over abortion. (btw, how many boomers sat on the Supreme Court and decided on Roe v. Wade?)

Your obvious anger, thirst for revenge (your word) and the violence in your vision for the future of your parents' generation taken with the troubling comic book art on your profile page paint a picture of someone with too heavy an emotional burden. I sincerely hope you work things out.

Good luck.

65 posted on 12/11/2003 1:15:27 PM PST by wtc911 (I would like at least to know his name)
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To: thoughtomator
I think that is a big part of it. What do the generations BB's produced feel they have to support. BB's are directly responsible for the state of affairs we live in today. I mean the cultural climate. I am 30 something and my brothers are 20 something. Our parents still use us to fight between them. I nearly passed out after my nasty father said something so horrendous recently. Self-centered, egotistical jerk and I know plenty of others my age who feel the same thing. and for those who think we just hate our elders. Rubbish. I loved my grandparents, all 4 of them. They were wonderful folks who I admired greatly. They had a great devotion to their families that somehow their children did not. I really idolize my now deceased grandparents. I don't see anything in my parents character that even compares.
66 posted on 12/11/2003 1:17:26 PM PST by cupcakes
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To: Maria S
Memo to Gen X from baby boomers: Get over yourselves. You are least-productive and whiniest generation ever created. A bunch of slacker losers who can't even make their own music (you rhyme-speak or steal, oh excuse me, "cover" or "sample," ours). BB should be very ashamed of having built you.

67 posted on 12/11/2003 1:17:51 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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To: cupcakes
I Hear you sister. Mine are now blowing about the new 40 grand filth wheel they just purchased with the 35 grand Deisel to haul in and how they had to make a second drive to their 80 foot Pole Barn built to put it in, so they don't damage their new paved drive way. Atlest while they are here, the rest of the time the rest up in their Place in Floriduh!

And then she bitches about how the New Republican Perscription coverage isn't going to cover alot of things.

Greedy old geezers is right! 900 bucks a month, both of them, plus medical coverage. Now Perscriptions. What a gig.

To bad she can't look me straight in the eye, when I tell her she ought to be arrested for stealing from her great grandchildren that aren't even born yet.

I also let her know that when the kids start complaining about the taxes I will show them a picture of Great Grandma and grandpa along with thier paved drive and 80,000 dollar traveling rig. And let them know that is what they will pay taxes for the rest of their lives for.
68 posted on 12/11/2003 1:21:27 PM PST by Area51 ((Big Time RINO Hunter!)
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To: wtc911
Yes the genocidal holocaust championed by the boomers, and all the attendant perversion and deviancy ushered in with it, do disturb me.

What troubles you about my amateur cartooning, besides my obvious lack of illustration skills? Are you a supporter of the doctrines I mock - Roe v. Wade, Lawrence v. Texas, and the others cited?
69 posted on 12/11/2003 1:21:48 PM PST by thoughtomator (The U.N. is a terrorist organization)
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To: wtc911; thoughtomator
I suppose his boomer parents had nothing at all to do now with his attitudes and "emotional burden" did they? Naw, of course not. Nothing new for the self-centered attitude of the boomers though.

Oh and as for abortion. Who was of child bearing age when Roe v Wade passed? Who was the group who would have effected the most pressure because they were of child bearing, free love age and needed their abortions to correct their mistakes? What's that *gasp* BABY BOOMERS!!! I know my grandparents weren't crying for Roe v Wade in the early 70's, but I do know my boomer parents were at least ambivalent. That says a lot about WHY Roe v Wade passed.
70 posted on 12/11/2003 1:23:00 PM PST by cupcakes
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To: freedumb2003
Were you organized as a corporation, or as a sole proprietorship? A sole proprietorship technically doesn't pay any dividends -- so all your income is taxed as income.

In the case of corporate ownership, there may be some regulations that are put in place to restrict how much you can pay yourself in dividends compared to what you pay yourself in salary. You can sometimes get around this by listing family members as shareholders and paying them dividends, too. Just make sure you have little Johnny buy his own school clothes and maybe spring for groceries once a month, if you know what I mean -- it's "his" money, after all.

71 posted on 12/11/2003 1:23:18 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Alberta -- the TRUE North strong and free.)
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To: freedumb2003
Memo to Gen X from baby boomers: Get over yourselves. You are least-productive and whiniest generation ever created. A bunch of slacker losers who can't even make their own music (you rhyme-speak or steal, oh excuse me, "cover" or "sample," ours). BB should be very ashamed of having built you.


67 posted on 12/11/2003 1:17:51 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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Keep kicking gramps. But know this. When the choice has to be made between providing for my kids and grandkids versus sending money to a bitter, whining, self centered generation of social parasites their won't be a bit of hesitation to cut you off at the knees.

Don't bitch to me because WE make the hard decisions that HAVE to be made your generation lacked the balls to make.
Or were too busy screwing your neighbors wife and smoking a doobie to notice.

72 posted on 12/11/2003 1:25:22 PM PST by Area51 ((Big Time RINO Hunter!)
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To: Alberta's Child
Were you organized as a corporation, or as a sole proprietorship? A sole proprietorship technically doesn't pay any dividends -- so all your income is taxed as income.

In the case of corporate ownership, there may be some regulations that are put in place to restrict how much you can pay yourself in dividends compared to what you pay yourself in salary. You can sometimes get around this by listing family members as shareholders and paying them dividends, too. Just make sure you have little Johnny buy his own school clothes and maybe spring for groceries once a month, if you know what I mean -- it's "his" money, after all.

I had both but it never occured to me to try to reduce my hit there. Good advice for everyone -- thanks

73 posted on 12/11/2003 1:26:24 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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To: freedumb2003
There seem to be a more than a few kids here who never got over the fact that their mommy and daddy weren't perfect or were too self involved to wipe their noses for them every time they sniffled. Gee, too bad they missed growing up in the fifties when everything was Ozzie and Harriet. Of course, since they can't get over being screwed by the parental lottery, everyone in mommy's club is evil and must pay. Buncha losers. I wonder how long before they start a reparations movement.
74 posted on 12/11/2003 1:27:12 PM PST by wtc911 (I would like at least to know his name)
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To: cupcakes
Yes I had exactly the same experience... my grandparents were loving, caring, traditional parents who held the care of their children to be their top priority. The spirit of the boomers was the explicit rejection of everything that makes for a happy healthy family - and their children (us) paid a staggering price for it.

But we remember our grandparents, and the way they expressed the love they truly felt for their families. I for one have sworn that I will not bring a child into the world until I am prepared to do as they did. (And I will certainly not bring a child into the world just to kill it off in the womb!)

I think what the boomers don't get about abortion is that it is the ultimate expression of how they view all other human beings - as objects to manipulate or destroy at their pleasure. And that only scratches the surface of the culture of child abuse that is now epidemic - miseducation, drugging active children into submission, the sexualization of children, ignoring the magnitude and seriousness of molestation, and on and on.
75 posted on 12/11/2003 1:31:38 PM PST by thoughtomator (The U.N. is a terrorist organization)
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To: cupcakes
Sorry, this is a sore spot for me. Perhaps I have incredibly greedy parents, but I don't think I'm alone in this.

My parents too, and a scarily high percentage of other Boomer parents that I know. They bleat on about how they "need" this and "need" that, but heaven forbid that they have to spend some of their personal time and resources acquiring those things. It is a total lack of personal responsibility on their parts, and therefore I feel a complete lack of sympathy for the consequences of undisciplined and immature life choices.

As I see it, GenX has a right to be completely unsympathetic to the "plight" of the older generations. While it is starting to be written about, I think that the Boomer and older generations still don't "get" that the younger generations feel this way pretty strongly.

76 posted on 12/11/2003 1:32:00 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: Area51
a bitter, whining, self centered generation

I think you have your generations confused sonny. Look in a mirror and look at your posts. Tell me who is "whiny."

For all the ills created by the Baby Boom at least we had ideals. Your generation just had toys.

their [sic] won't be a bit of hesitation to cut you off at the knees.

Quite the chip on your shoulder there, mijo. Shouldn't you be directing your anger at your parents?

77 posted on 12/11/2003 1:33:14 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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To: cupcakes
Pull up to the therapy couch...there's room for all you whiners. When I hear children like you and compare them to my own grown kids and their cousins it makes me realize how right we got it.

Good luck.

78 posted on 12/11/2003 1:33:22 PM PST by wtc911 (I would like at least to know his name)
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To: wtc911
Buncha losers. I wonder how long before they start a reparations movement.

LOL! Poor little babies are pining for a day that never existed.

79 posted on 12/11/2003 1:36:21 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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To: qam1; ItsOurTimeNow; PresbyRev; tortoise; Fraulein; StoneColdGOP; Clemenza
Xer Ping

Ping list for the discussion of the politics and social aspects that directly effects Generation-X (Those born from 1965-1982*) including all the spending previous generations (i.e. The Baby Boomers) are doing that Gen-X and Y will end up paying for.

New: Freep mail me to be added or dropped. See my home page for details.  

80 posted on 12/11/2003 1:40:12 PM PST by qam1 (@Starting Generation X Ping list - Freep me to be added and see my home page for details)
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To: thoughtomator
Too funny. Gen-x ers are already in their 40's.
What goes round comes round...the gen after you will be saying the same things about you.

Now..how about the truth ?

You are picking on the wrong generation.

We didn't start the mess...our folks, with the help of FDR, did.
I was born in 1949. I was 15 when LBJ had enacted Medicare. That's MY fault ?
It's MY fault for using a sytem inplemented by my folks ?

Nice try. Buy a book.
81 posted on 12/11/2003 1:40:27 PM PST by stylin19a (is it vietnam yet ?)
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To: freedumb2003
Hahahaha Yeah right. Now pull your head out of your ass and tell em again WHO it was that wanted the Drug coverage?
Sure as hell wasn't us. Yeah like I said GREEDY WHINEY PARASITES.

Ideals? Hmm Johnson's Great Ideas huh? Lets see, free love, Roe V wade, dope, draft dodging, borrow and stick the future generations with the bill, integrated schools, Federal housing, welfare, expanded SSI services, minority preferences, affimative action were all part of the great society for sure.

Yeah, great ideals. It all came home with Your generations answer. Bill Clinton.
82 posted on 12/11/2003 1:42:02 PM PST by Area51 ((Big Time RINO Hunter!)
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To: stylin19a
Too funny. Gen-x ers are already in their 40's.

Ummm... Maybe for sufficiently incorrect values of "GenX". Every definition I've ever seen would have GenX currently roughly between the mid- to late-20s and late-30s.

83 posted on 12/11/2003 1:42:43 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: stylin19a
Your folks fought WWII and kept America free. What did the boomers do to redeem their faults?
84 posted on 12/11/2003 1:43:21 PM PST by thoughtomator (The U.N. is a terrorist organization)
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To: stylin19a
Please, no logic. The kids are too angry with mommy and daddy or Uncle Ernie to see straight.
85 posted on 12/11/2003 1:45:24 PM PST by wtc911 (I would like at least to know his name)
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To: freedumb2003
Well, you're onto something. Certainly rap's use of samples justifies socialism and enslaving the young to the old.

86 posted on 12/11/2003 1:45:36 PM PST by Skywalk
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To: pogo101
bump
87 posted on 12/11/2003 1:47:27 PM PST by holdmuhbeer
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To: thoughtomator
Your posts are spot on target.
88 posted on 12/11/2003 1:52:10 PM PST by malakhi (Do, or do not. There is no try.)
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To: Area51; freedumb2003
Interesting to note that A51 thinks that integrated schools are one of the evils that have befallen our country since the sixties.

Would it be expecting too much of the kiddies to expect them to know that you were too young to even vote when these things came to be?

Growing up (I'm a couple of years younger than you, but only a couple) we knew tons of kids who were truly messed up. They usually blamed their own parents, you know, the gods of the Greatest Generation. We used to hope that these bozos would never have kids of their own...it looks like a bunch of them did.

89 posted on 12/11/2003 1:53:30 PM PST by wtc911 (I would like at least to know his name)
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To: freedumb2003
Of course, you should always check this kind of thing with a tax accountant. These things change from year to year -- particularly with regard to the reduced tax rate on dividends (I believe there is a sunset provision in this tax law that ends the reduced tax rate after 2005 or 2006).
90 posted on 12/11/2003 1:53:41 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Alberta -- the TRUE North strong and free.)
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To: Skywalk
Why,thank you for sharing all that !

(Pity I won't be around when you reach the "greedy" age, and start howling for your "entitlements".)

PS: FYI, I started working-and contributing to SS-at the age of 14. I retired at 63-could have waited another 2 years and increased my ill-gotten gains,but decided to save some for the greedy whiners who would follow.

91 posted on 12/11/2003 1:54:30 PM PST by genefromjersey (So little time - so many FLAMES to light !!)
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To: tortoise
gen-x arguably is considered those born between 1965-1981. There are those that think that declining birth rates is the start of gen-x, which would make it 1961 not 1965.

I choose the later, hence the older X'ers are in their 40's,
92 posted on 12/11/2003 1:54:56 PM PST by stylin19a (is it vietnam yet ?)
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To: 45Auto
Other than that, I want every effing dime, or there's going to be trouble.

*VBG*Very good. And I will take it as early as I can get it, to make sure I get as much of it as I can, before it runs out. I still won't get out of it what I put into it.

My luck I'll have a stroke and die early. Nothing ever works out.

*G*

In God We Trust…..Semper Fi

93 posted on 12/11/2003 1:55:00 PM PST by North Coast Conservative (never take a gun to a gunfight that doesn't start with at least .40 cal)
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To: thoughtomator
spawned gen-x ers.
94 posted on 12/11/2003 1:58:06 PM PST by stylin19a (is it vietnam yet ?)
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To: Area51; freedumb2003
Snap quiz....how many boomers (%) were old enough to vote for Johnson in 1964 or for Nixon in 68?

Answer...ZERO in '64 and @ 1% in '68.

A51, one more under-educated, hate-filled permanent adolescent struggling through the oedipal thing. Good luck.

95 posted on 12/11/2003 2:01:50 PM PST by wtc911 (I would like at least to know his name)
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To: Cicero
It's not their fault. It's the fault of FDR and all the greedy politicians ever since who wanted to give the voters a chicken in every pot but didn't want to pay for it.

Not exactly. On the Social Security issue, three generations of Americans have systematically elected liars and defeated truth tellers. Future generations are under no obligation to redeem the corrupt bargains made by their predecessors.

96 posted on 12/11/2003 2:03:12 PM PST by sphinx
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To: thoughtomator
The real emotional pathology that needs investigation is the astonishing narcissism of the baby boomers.

Excellent point. Ironically, I believe this narcissism is rooted in nothing more than accidents of history. Baby Boomers were coming of age just as monumental changes were occurring in our economic, political, and social order (the civil rights movement, space travel, the movement of large segments of our population from the cities to the suburbs, etc.). What makes these "accidents of history" from the Baby Boomers' perspective is that they really didn't have anything to do with these things, but they are the defining moments of their formative years.

This, by the way, is one reason why I refused to pay a nickel to see the movie Saving Private Ryan -- not because this self-described tribute to "The Greatest Generation" wasn't worthwhile, or well-deserved, but because a jack@ss like Steven Spielberg did us all a great disservice by making a movie like this instead of making a blunt, accurate movie as a "tribute" to his own generation.

97 posted on 12/11/2003 2:04:01 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Alberta -- the TRUE North strong and free.)
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To: luckydevi
Isn't slate an ultra left wing liberal media? Apparently the bleeding heart left wing liberals bleeds only for those who are on welfare, but would like to terminate old people as soon as they qualify for social security. This article exposes the left wing liberals evil agenda.
98 posted on 12/11/2003 2:07:03 PM PST by desertcry
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To: genefromjersey
Some of these children are just sooooo angry. My kids and their cousins aren't this way at all....wonder what we did wrong?

btw...first fica payment at age seventeen, know what all the $$ since would be worth if invested privately?

Enjoy your retirement and make it last.

99 posted on 12/11/2003 2:07:23 PM PST by wtc911 (I would like at least to know his name)
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To: optik_b
I'm sorry if some people are going to have to work harder to pay me the money that the effing political bastards stole from me under the auspices of a damn law that was passed before I was born. The facts remain: The SOB's stole money from me over my working lifetime that is by now well over six figures, and I want every damn penny of it as promised. Its not money that I gave freely in a charitable way; I worked for it and it was taken (robbed, stolen, theft, get it?) from me more or less at gunpoint by a bunch of two-bit, pompous, pimp-bastards who call themselves Congressmen and who, by the way, don't pay a dime into the SS fund. I am not a philanthropist; I need that money in retirement and I damn well better get it because its mine. If you want to call that "greedy" go ahead. It won't change one damn thing. I already said that I would be willing to settle for only as much as the @sswipes stole from me (without interest) as long as they write me a check and stop taking any more out of my paycheck.
100 posted on 12/11/2003 2:09:17 PM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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