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Social Security for Mexicans closer to reality; U.S. discussing plan
WorldNetDaily ^ | December 11, 2003

Posted on 12/11/2003 3:48:26 PM PST by yonif

The prospect of millions of Mexicans receiving United States Social Security checks is moving closer to reality.

The Gannett News Service reports U.S. and Mexican officials are discussing a "totalization" agreement that would transfer hundreds of millions of dollars in payments south of the border. The plan would allow documented and undocumented immigrants to return home but still collect U.S. benefits.

WorldNetDaily reported the idea to merge both countries' Social Security systems was pushed late last year by Mexican President Vincente Fox as payback from President George W. Bush for failing to secure major new immigration reforms beneficial to Mexico City.

"When the legalization talks began going nowhere, the Mexicans began focusing on this," Maria Blanco, national senior counsel for the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, told the Washington Post.

Excerpts from a U.S. Social Security Administration memo dated December 2002 said the agreement "is expected to move forward at an accelerated pace."

The pact is the latest and largest attempt by Washington and Mexico City to ensure that people from one country working in another aren't taxed twice for Social Security benefits. In the first year alone, the agreement is expected to trigger 37,000 claims from Mexicans working in the U.S. legally who paid Social Security taxes but haven't been able to claim their checks, said the memo, prepared by Ted Girdner, the Social Security Administration's assistant associate commissioner for international operations.

Supporters say the proposal would improve the daily lives of Mexican citizens, many of whom are still trapped in poverty a decade after the North American Free Trade Agreement promised prosperity to the nation's 103.4 million people.

"Let's be honest, there are millions of Mexican immigrants contributing to the Social Security system and the U.S. economy," Katherine Culliton, an attorney with the Washington, D.C., office of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, told Gannett. "It's only fair they get back a benefit they deserve that will keep them from dying in poverty."

Critics, as well as some on the Bush administration economic team, worry that adding more beneficiaries would burden an already ailing system, just as American baby boomers begin to retire.

Currently, around 94,000 beneficiaries living abroad have been brought into the U.S. system under the auspices of about 20 international treaties designed to help Americans sent abroad by their employers signed since 1977. The accords are mostly with European countries, but also include Canada and South Korea.

Of the $408 billion distributed in Social Security benefits in 2001, according to Gannett, the federal government paid $173 million to about 89,000 foreigners living abroad.

Opponents contend the number of Mexican beneficiaries added to the fold would dwarf the total numbers from the 20 other countries. One estimate puts the number of Mexicans coming into the system at around 164,000 in the first five years.

Social Security Administration officials estimate about 50,000 Mexicans would collect $78 million in the first year of a U.S.-Mexican agreement. By 2050, the number is predicted to swell to 300,000 Mexicans collecting $650 million in benefits a year.

But that number doesn't include the potentially eligible, undocumented Mexican immigrants – numbering about 5 million, according to federal estimates – a recent General Accounting Office report pointed out.

Accounting for illegals, the agreement could cost U.S. taxpayers $750 million within five years of implementation.

Steven A. Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, says if Mexicans receive the $8,100 in benefits that Mexican-born retirees in the U.S. currently get, the total expenditure for the program will easily surpass $1 billion annually.

Beyond the cost, Republican lawmakers worry the proposal will fuel further illegal immigration.

"Talk about an incentive for illegal immigration," Gannett quotes Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, as saying. "How many more would break the law to come to this country if promised U.S. government paychecks for life?"

Any "totalization" agreement ultimately reached must be approved by Congress.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; biggov; biggovernment; bush43; civilwartwo; culturewar; cw2; federalspending; handouts; illegalnotimmigrant; immigration; insane; legalplunder; mexicans; mexico; parasites; plunder; plunderamericans; proillegals; socialsecurity; spending; theft; thewelfarestate; welfarestate

1 posted on 12/11/2003 3:48:27 PM PST by yonif
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To: yonif
Please tell me this is just paranoia. If this country sinks (and it's sinking) there is nowhere left to run to.
2 posted on 12/11/2003 3:50:39 PM PST by wizardoz
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To: yonif
Well it's better than paying them Social Security to stay in the US.
3 posted on 12/11/2003 3:53:18 PM PST by Pubbie (* Bill Owens 2008 *)
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To: yonif
"Let's be honest, there are millions of Mexican immigrants contributing to the Social Security system and the U.S. economy," Katherine Culliton, an attorney with the Washington, D.C., office of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, told Gannett. "It's only fair they get back a benefit they deserve that will keep them from dying in poverty."

She fails to mention the cost to the States of illegals, which by far exceeds the benefits.

4 posted on 12/11/2003 3:55:51 PM PST by Flashman_at_the_charge
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To: wizardoz
" . . . the idea to merge both countries' Social Security systems was pushed late last year by Mexican President Vincente Fox as payback from President George W. Bush for failing to secure major new immigration reforms beneficial to Mexico City.

Payback, my eye! Just what in the Sam heck to we owe El Presidente Fox? Those who contribute to SS and are hear legally may deserve access to a Totalization Agreement (Finland, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Greece and a number of countries have such treaties in place already.) Those that are here illegally deserve nada.

If anything is to be paid to illegals, it should only be after the costs they imposed on U.S. taxpayers (higher unemployment, depressed wages, ER fees, crime, etc.) are deducted. They they would owe us.

5 posted on 12/11/2003 3:57:16 PM PST by Vigilanteman
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To: wizardoz
" . . . the idea to merge both countries' Social Security systems was pushed late last year by Mexican President Vincente Fox as payback from President George W. Bush for failing to secure major new immigration reforms beneficial to Mexico City.

Payback, my eye! Just what in the Sam heck to we owe El Presidente Fox? Those who contribute to SS and are hear legally may deserve access to a Totalization Agreement (Finland, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Greece and a number of countries have such treaties in place already.) Those that are here illegally deserve nada.

If anything is to be paid to illegals, it should only be after the costs they imposed on U.S. taxpayers (higher unemployment, depressed wages, ER fees, crime, etc.) are deducted. They they would owe us.

6 posted on 12/11/2003 3:57:26 PM PST by Vigilanteman
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To: yonif
"But that number doesn't include the potentially eligible, undocumented Mexican immigrants – numbering about 5 million, according to federal estimates – a recent General Accounting Office report pointed out."

If you're here illegally you should be entitled to
NOTHING!

NOTHING!

NOTHING!


7 posted on 12/11/2003 3:58:20 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: yonif
If this happens I think we ought to look real hard at finding some cash-only jobs. I may just come down with a bad case of John Galt.
8 posted on 12/11/2003 4:00:09 PM PST by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: madfly; HiJinx; janetgreen; FITZ; gubamyster; SandRat; WRhine; joesnuffy; B4Ranch; moehoward; ...
PING.
9 posted on 12/11/2003 4:00:42 PM PST by Missouri
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To: yonif
Welcome to the 'New World Order'.
10 posted on 12/11/2003 4:01:32 PM PST by CMClay
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To: yonif
Let's be honest, there are millions of Mexican immigrants contributing to the Social Security system and the U.S. economy," Katherine Culliton, an attorney with the Washington, D.C., office of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, told Gannett. "It's only fair they get back a benefit they deserve that will keep them from dying in poverty

Yes, let's be honest. The question is not how much they contribute but how much they drain. They came here illegally knowing full well that they were breaking the law and were not entitled to benefits. Obviously, they thought they were still getting a good deal. Why should we be required to sweeten it? I'm sick of a bunch of illegal leeches and their supporters and leaders preaching to me about what is fair while I support them.

11 posted on 12/11/2003 4:04:27 PM PST by paul51
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To: wizardoz
Please tell me this is just paranoia.

George Bush is officially just as bad as Gray Davis.

12 posted on 12/11/2003 4:04:36 PM PST by JoeSchem
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To: Pubbie
Well it's better than paying them Social Security to stay in the US.

How about the option of not paying them Social security and not letting them stay in the US?

13 posted on 12/11/2003 4:05:32 PM PST by JoeSchem
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To: JoeSchem
I guess Bush really wants to be a "One Termer".
14 posted on 12/11/2003 4:05:33 PM PST by COEXERJ145
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To: JoeSchem
Well, that would be my preference too, however given the Compassionate Conservative nature of this WH it might be the best we can hope for - at least the WH wants them gone, whereas in 2001 they were going for a big juicy Amnesty.
15 posted on 12/11/2003 4:09:22 PM PST by Pubbie (* Bill Owens 2008 *)
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To: truthkeeper
What do you think about them frijolas!
16 posted on 12/11/2003 4:09:29 PM PST by novacation
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To: JoeSchem
Oh no, don't say that! You'll be called a bigot xenophobe!
17 posted on 12/11/2003 4:10:00 PM PST by Guillermo (It's tough being a Miami Dolphins fan)
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To: JoeSchem
Bush seems to be more interested in helping Mexicans and throwing away the first amendment rights of American born citizens. As amazing as it would seem, he's going to have a hard time beating Dean.
18 posted on 12/11/2003 4:10:20 PM PST by virgil
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To: yonif
BUSH:ONE TERM PRESIDENT
19 posted on 12/11/2003 4:13:46 PM PST by tubavil
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To: COEXERJ145
Yep. GW has pushed the envelope over to the point of no recovery. People hear say that we react to supposed trial ballons etc. Are these ballons being sent out by the administration? If not GW would/could/must/ come out & explain. Since he is not we can only assume it was at his discretion. Thus I see many conservatives not giving him their vote next Nov. Too bad. He had a chance to solidify a hugh group but blew it on his idiotic domestic policy.
20 posted on 12/11/2003 4:15:11 PM PST by Digger
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To: All
LOL, I cannot believe this is even being discussed! The SSA is, or will be, bankrupt, and here the US Gov't is discussing ways to worsen the situation. There has to be a better way for Republicans to attract the Latino vote than this; there just HAS TO BE!!!
21 posted on 12/11/2003 4:19:22 PM PST by Malcolm (not on the bandwagon, but not contrary for contrary's sake either)
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To: yonif
These illegal border jumpers are masters of nickel and dime extortion! We have no business supporting a third world banana republic! Social Security was intended for American Citizens first and formost; to take care of Widows & Orphans!
22 posted on 12/11/2003 4:20:51 PM PST by winker
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To: yonif
Social Security Administration officials estimate about 50,000 Mexicans would collect $78 million in the first year of a U.S.-Mexican agreement. By 2050, the number is predicted to swell to 300,000 Mexicans collecting $650 million in benefits a year. But that number doesn't include the potentially eligible, undocumented Mexican immigrants – numbering about 5 million, according to federal estimates – a recent General Accounting Office report pointed out. Accounting for illegals, the agreement could cost U.S. taxpayers $750 million within five years of implementation.

Sure ... why not ... what the hell ... The federal government has already given us 50% taxes, free speech restraints in the form of CFR, is brain-washing our children in multicultural diversity. The border is a joke, immigration laws are un-enforced. What's another $750 million dollars going out of the US economy to reward law-breaking alien invaders who care nothing for our laws or culture?

The frogs have been boiling for so long they are cooked well done by now.

23 posted on 12/11/2003 4:22:51 PM PST by spodefly (This is my tagline. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: yonif
America is rapidly turning into an insane asylum, paid for by the longest-serving inmates.
24 posted on 12/11/2003 4:36:08 PM PST by Gritty ("America: it's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards"-Claire Wolfe)
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To: yonif
Bring it on you damn NWO flunkies. We're waking up and you won't like what happens next.
25 posted on 12/11/2003 4:43:22 PM PST by GluteusMax
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: Malcolm
There's no way the Social Security system could hold up after hundreds of millions of Mexicans produce stolen Social Security numbers and claim they used them to work illegally in the USA. Just like the 80s amnesty ---- there will be tremendous fraud and more than 10 times the estimates will show up.

Maybe Bush doesn't believe in Social Security and means to end the system. Fine with me if he puts in an opt out option and reimburses us at least partially for what we've already paid in.
27 posted on 12/11/2003 4:49:39 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Malcolm
But that number doesn't include the potentially eligible, undocumented Mexican immigrants
Even if this bad idea goes forward, how would the amount to be paid be determined if fake Soc Sec numbers etc used, or maybe an individual used multiple numbers over the years ? I
28 posted on 12/11/2003 4:50:12 PM PST by 1066AD
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To: Vigilanteman
may deserve access to a Totalization Agreement

I have a feeling if they worked here legally, did every thing legally they already get Medicare and Social Security checks when they retire. I know they get Medicare ---- there are many living in Mexico who come over with Medicare numbers ---- because they worked and retired here.

29 posted on 12/11/2003 4:51:54 PM PST by FITZ
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To: FITZ
I have a feeling if they worked here legally, did every thing legally they already get Medicare and Social Security checks when they retire.

I did some reading on this recently. It seems that what matters is the worker's status at the time benefits are applied for, not their status at the time of employment. From Congressional testimony by Barbara Bovbjerg, a GAO manager:

You are required under the law from the Welfare Reform Act of '96 to be legally present to get benefits here. How you earn those benefits is not relevant to the Social Security Administration's work. If you earned them legally or illegally and you are legally present, you will be paid those benefits. If you are not legally present, you can get them if you are a Mexican citizen in Mexico. Source

Also, she states in the same hearings on page 30 that there are 50,000 living in Mexico that currently receive Social Security benefits.

30 posted on 12/11/2003 5:36:18 PM PST by AzJohn
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To: yonif
"Supporters say the proposal would improve the daily lives of Mexican citizens, many of whom are still trapped in poverty a decade after the North American Free Trade Agreement promised prosperity to the nation's 103.4 million people."

Geez,do you suppose many of them will still be trapped in poverty a decade after this cockamamie idea promises whatever it promises?

31 posted on 12/11/2003 5:43:30 PM PST by John W
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To: All
All the illegals I know don't pay taxes. They work for cash.

I am taxed twice. Once when I earned it, and again as I spent it.

How many million does Mexico owe to the US?

32 posted on 12/11/2003 6:09:12 PM PST by perfect stranger (No tag line today. Tag line yesterday, tag line tomorrow, but no tag line today.)
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To: yonif
You know, this has gone too far. I was just watching the news this evening where they reported some Mexicans being arrested for defrauding the State of California of unemployment compensation. These Mexicans were collecting unemployment by making fraudelent claims. And guess who is getting screwed? We are. They were probably collecting SS checks as well.

As long as these illegals continue to drain our State financial resources and force Americans out of jobs, pretty soon, most Americans won't be filling income tax returns at all. They won't need to if they are unemployed. Then I guess the IRS will have to go after the illegals to put some funds into the revenue...if they can catch them before they escape back to Mexico.
33 posted on 12/11/2003 7:00:16 PM PST by goldilucky
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To: paul51
"Let's be honest, there are millions of Mexican immigrants contributing to the Social Security system and the U.S. economy,"

No. Let's be honest. 90% of illegals work off the books or do not work at all, collecting welfare from 20 diff fed and state programs.
34 posted on 12/11/2003 7:06:06 PM PST by At _War_With_Liberals (This is the 1st US election in which a global party (socialists) are trying to win a US election)
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To: yonif
"Let's be honest, there are millions of Mexican immigrants contributing to the Social Security system and the U.S. economy," Katherine Culliton, an attorney with the Washington, D.C., office of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, told Gannett. "It's only fair they get back a benefit they deserve that will keep them from dying in poverty."

No! No! A thousand times, No! What is wrong with this picture? Might as well get rid of all national sovereignty right now.

35 posted on 12/11/2003 8:07:32 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: yonif
By 2050, the number is predicted to swell to 300,000 Mexicans collecting $650 million in benefits a year.

But that number doesn't include the potentially eligible, undocumented Mexican immigrants – numbering about 5 million, according to federal estimates – Accounting for illegals, the agreement could cost U.S. taxpayers $750 million within five years of implementation.

What's wrong with those numbers? 300,000 beneficiaries get $650,000,000 a year in 2050. Or; 5,000,000 beneficiaries get $750,000,000 a year in 2008. Surely that isn't due to some inflation projection?
.3 million vs 5 million. $650 million vs $750 million.

Hey! What's that white fuzzy stuff blocking my view? Is that ... is that ...WOOL?

36 posted on 12/11/2003 8:19:11 PM PST by TigersEye ("Where there is life there is hope!" - Terri Schiavo)
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To: novacation
More insanity.
37 posted on 12/12/2003 3:29:52 PM PST by truthkeeper
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To: truthkeeper
Isn't comforting to know the pubs and dims are giving away your country and money.
38 posted on 12/12/2003 4:03:14 PM PST by novacation
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