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Social Security for Mexicans closer to reality (Millions of immigrants to collect benefits)
www.wnd.com ^ | December 11, 2003 | WorldNetDaily

Posted on 12/11/2003 7:55:33 PM PST by VU4G10

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To: Luis Gonzalez
You really stop acting so arrogant.

By the way, the topic line is part of the article.

101 posted on 12/14/2003 10:17:53 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Luis Gonzalez
You really need to stop acting so arrogant.

By the way, the topic line is part of the article.

102 posted on 12/14/2003 10:18:05 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Paul C. Jesup
WND
COMING TO AMERICA
Social Security for Mexicans closer to reality
U.S. discussing plan to allow millions of immigrants to collect benefits
103 posted on 12/14/2003 10:20:20 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Paul C. Jesup
There's the actual headline.
104 posted on 12/14/2003 10:20:47 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
U.S. discussing plan to allow millions of immigrants to collect benefits

Note the 'millions' word is used there too.

105 posted on 12/14/2003 10:26:10 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Just like the money that I am "voluntarily" depositing into the SSA coffers is MY money, not OUR money.

Good job using the " "'s around voluntarily.

But is it "your" money what you put in?

I don't think the Government thinks so.

106 posted on 12/14/2003 10:32:21 PM PST by Syncro
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Reality check..."discussing millions" is quite different than "millions to collect".

Number two, no such thing as the US discussing millions of immigrants at all, the GAO's report maxes the beneficiaries at 650,000, but seems concerned that the total dollar figure mentioned by the government does not include the millions of illegal immigrants who may also qualify.

Hint: the reason that there's no mention of them is because A) they don't qualify to collect, and B) the Bush administration has no intention of paying SS wages to illegals living abroad.

Now, step away from the man with the free Kool Aid, and start thinking critically.
107 posted on 12/14/2003 10:57:29 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Notice the 'If' word in post 95. Of course, you seem to be skipping over a lot of parts of my posts.
108 posted on 12/14/2003 11:18:20 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Syncro
"I don't think the Government thinks so."

That's to be expected, the scary thing is that most of the people on this thread thinks that it is "our" money...collectively.

109 posted on 12/15/2003 6:44:16 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Paul C. Jesup
"Notice the 'If' word in post 95."

Billy...

Is this you?

I thought you had a problem with "is", not "if".

110 posted on 12/15/2003 6:46:19 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez; All
I realise I am a little late in this discussion. This article is VERY confusing. It does not state whether the SS money are going to legal documented immigrants and permanent residents OR illegal aliens with stolen SS numbers. This is probably what is feuling this discussion. My grandmother and uncle came up here worked legally, paid into the system but they went back home. Legally, they are entitled to SS benefits (but they haven't collected yet). Lots of people die who are American citizens and never collect on SS as well.
111 posted on 12/15/2003 6:53:51 AM PST by cyborg
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To: VU4G10
Any of these workers who do get SS payments will get them forever. In the US when someone dies, death certificates get filed and the payments stop. Over there? HAH Those will be the longest living people ever!
112 posted on 12/15/2003 7:00:33 AM PST by gopheraj
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To: cyborg
"This article is VERY confusing."

Consider the source.

It's yellow jopurnalism.

113 posted on 12/15/2003 7:33:51 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: cyborg
I have read other articles that mention the totalization would include provisions to allow illegals to collect SS. A good link to check out is provided in post #36, part of which follows.

The Chair recognizes the gentlewoman from Tennessee, Ms. Blackburn, for 5 minutes.

Mrs. BLACKBURN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ms. Bovbjerg, I want to stay right with that train of thought right there. So what I am understanding from you is that illegal immigrants and their families, their survivors, their dependents could be eligible or a family of someone who worked illegally in this country could be eligible for Social Security benefits under the totalization agreement in part because it is silent on the condition of being here legally or illegally?

Ms. BOVBJERG. You are required under the law from the Welfare Reform Act of '96 to be legally present to get benefits here. How you earn those benefits is not relevant to the Social Security Administration's work. If you earned them legally or illegally and you are legally present, you will be paid those benefits. If you are not legally present, you can get them if you are a Mexican citizen in Mexico.

Mrs. BLACKBURN. In Mexico.

Ms. BOVBJERG. Yes. But your family—under current law it is difficult for your family to do that, and a provision that is in current law is waived in the totalization agreements generally.

Mrs. BLACKBURN. Okay, but what you are saying is the family could be there in Mexico, the person could have worked here, have been an illegal immigrant here and still draw those benefits?

Page 76 PREV PAGE TOP OF DOC

Ms. BOVBJERG. Under totalization.

Mrs. BLACKBURN. Under totalization. So when you consider this and consider the 5 million undocumented workers that you all estimate are here in the U.S. And you are looking at Social Security and survivor benefits and widow benefits and then these have to be included in your compilation, your cost estimate, would you please give me what you think is a top range of a cost estimate for this?

Ms. BOVBJERG. I wish I could. We looked at the actuaries' estimates because we know that they are in the best position to provide this kind of information and we felt that, given other things, we knew the estimates could be on the low end of the range. I think what we were really looking for is what might the range be and how really could we think about this apparent disconnect between the number of people assumed in the estimate and the number of people that the former INS estimated in the year 2000. I think that is the conversation and that is the kind of analysis that would be helpful in thinking about a totalization agreement with Mexico.

114 posted on 12/15/2003 8:04:11 AM PST by Klickitat
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To: cyborg
The GAO report has just as many misgivings about what this agreement is going to cost the SSA. Even in the first page of their report phrases such as "The proposed agreement will likely increase the number of UNAUTHORIZED Mexican workers eligible for Social Security benefits...."the cost of such an agreement is highly uncertain"....(responding to the estimates that there are only 50,000 beneficiaries living in Mexico today & that number is expected to increase sixfold)..."However, this proxy figure does not directly consider the estimated MILLIONS of current and former unauthorized workers and family members from Mexico and appears small in comparison with those estimates"

Even the GAO's report sheds light on the glaring ineptness of the SSA and the fedgov to implement this scheme to reward lawbreakers. What's not even considered is the billions of taxpayer $ already spent on these people who've latched themselves to our welfare system thus allowing many large and small corporations alike to have to only pay minimal wages to their foreign workers living here. This is just another sellout of the American taxpayer by GW (one term) Bush and his cronies.

115 posted on 12/15/2003 8:38:23 AM PST by american spirit (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION = NATIONAL SUICIDE)
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To: american spirit
You might find this article interesting.

Los Amigos de Bush

116 posted on 12/15/2003 8:46:02 AM PST by DumpsterDiver
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I said in post 95, If JUST a million Mexicans were paided $500 dollars a month each (half of a what a average ammount is) it will cost US taxpayers $6,000,000,000 billion dollars a year.

I was stating a posibility, not a fact, but you are to stubborn to admit that.

117 posted on 12/15/2003 9:18:15 AM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: cyborg
Sounds like illegals. Is it still OK to use that word? This is OK though, this will get us the LaRaza vote for sure.
118 posted on 12/15/2003 9:23:04 AM PST by NeoCaveman (Ladies and gentleman, we got him.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Just like the money that I am "voluntarily" depositing into the SSA coffers is MY money, not OUR money.

Well if it is your money, go ask to get your money back. You will find that is ain't your money at all. At least not after the gubbermit gets their hands on it.

119 posted on 12/15/2003 9:29:29 AM PST by TLI (...........ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA..........)
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To: TLI
"Well if it is your money, go ask to get your money back."

I'll get it back the moment I retire, and regardless of where I chose to live.

By the way, just because someone stole something from you and you can't get back, it does not stop belonging to you.

120 posted on 12/15/2003 11:26:48 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Paul C. Jesup
"I was stating a posibility, not a fact."

"We cannot afford that and since the politicians and their useful idiots don't care, this country is heading straight into an armed revolution."

Quit insulting my intelligence Paul, I don't suffer fools lightly.

There is no "possibility" in your closing statement in that post, "this country is heading straight into an armed revolution", where are the "ifs" there Paul?

I don't know what I find more detestable, people who don't know what the hell they're talking about, or those who will not stand by their convictions when challenged.

121 posted on 12/15/2003 11:33:00 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Even the GAO admits the obvious....that the cost for this program is "highly uncertain" and could include "millions of current and former unauthorized workers and family members" so in spite of the arrogance of Mexican apologists even your estimate could very well be on the low side. It looks like dependents of Mexcian SS receipients could very well end up getting their checks also.
122 posted on 12/15/2003 1:01:30 PM PST by american spirit (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION = NATIONAL SUICIDE)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
By the way, just because someone stole something from you and you can't get back, it does not stop belonging to you.

Now you are talking about the IRS. Not much difference though. Still, just for fun . . call SSA and ask if you can drop out and get back just the money you payed in so far.

123 posted on 12/15/2003 1:33:03 PM PST by TLI (...........ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA..........)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Quit insulting my intelligence Paul, I don't suffer fools lightly.

That is not insulting, I am stating the logic conculsion to this insanity.

History teaches that when countries on the U.S. scale decline and fall it is more often because of corrupt from within by politicans than an invasion by a military army.

Now get off my back, I don't know what problem you have, but if you don't quit flaming me, I am going to ping the FR Admins.

124 posted on 12/15/2003 5:50:41 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: american spirit
Thanks for backing me up.
125 posted on 12/15/2003 5:51:31 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Paul C. Jesup
"Now get off my back, I don't know what problem you have, but if you don't quit flaming me, I am going to ping the FR Admins."


126 posted on 12/15/2003 8:00:29 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: dubyaismypresident
What's this with the PC 'undocumented immigrant'??? ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
127 posted on 12/15/2003 8:12:30 PM PST by cyborg
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To: cyborg
What's this with the PC 'undocumented immigrant'??? ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!

You can't say illegal aliens. It offends the LaRaza types and the big business that exploit illegal aliens and break our laws with NO consequences.

No line jumping! Come legal please.

128 posted on 12/15/2003 8:17:55 PM PST by NeoCaveman (Ladies and gentleman, we got him.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
FR Admins have now been pinged.
129 posted on 12/15/2003 8:18:21 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Paul C. Jesup
What?

What do you have against babies?
130 posted on 12/15/2003 8:19:29 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: american spirit; Klickitat
:sigh: These people are illegal. They have ZERO rights. This is not like coming here legally and obtaining a legaal social security card and working. These are people who come here illegally first of all, then committ either identity theft or false cards.

DUH.
131 posted on 12/15/2003 8:20:33 PM PST by cyborg
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To: cyborg
You have to learn how to decipher news speak.

Undocumented= Illegal Mexican immigrant.

Illegal= Cuban rafter.
132 posted on 12/15/2003 8:20:50 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Go crawl back under your rock, you Pro-Mexican, Anti-American jackass of a troll.
133 posted on 12/15/2003 8:23:34 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Luis Gonzalez
This article title is poor, and I feel like writing a note to the author about it.
134 posted on 12/15/2003 8:23:52 PM PST by cyborg
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To: cyborg
"They have ZERO rights."

That's wrong.

You can't agree with the Founders when they say that our rights come from God, then turn around and say something like that.

Unless you think God has issues with Mexicans.

"WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

The Framers did not add "except in the case of Mexicans".

135 posted on 12/15/2003 8:25:16 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Paul C. Jesup
LOL!

Was it the baby Paulie?
136 posted on 12/15/2003 8:25:46 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
People come here illegally, they are illegal aliens. It does not matter where they come from. Other than basic needs, they are NOT entitled the rights and priviledges of the US citizen and the permanent resident card holder (who can't vote in elections).
137 posted on 12/15/2003 8:29:23 PM PST by cyborg
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To: cyborg
"Other than basic needs, they are NOT entitled the rights and priviledges of the US citizen."

You can't throw them in jail without a due process, you can't enslave them...

In other words, they enjoy the same human rights we believe all people enjoy.

That's far more than zero rights as you stated.

138 posted on 12/15/2003 8:33:43 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez; american spirit
American spirit, is it just me or is Luis Gonzalez being a total jackass.
139 posted on 12/15/2003 8:33:51 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Basic human rights, but not the PRIVILEDGES of American citizens and permanent residents.
140 posted on 12/15/2003 8:34:59 PM PST by cyborg
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Hey Paul.

Don't forget, you called the Admins in, I wouldn't be hurling obscenities around.

Calling in some help Paulie?

141 posted on 12/15/2003 8:35:11 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
So that is what a personal picture of you looks like.
142 posted on 12/15/2003 8:35:33 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: cyborg
Absolutely not, these priviledges are the property of citizens, as are the responsibilities that go with them.

Think of it this way.

One of the reasons we are fighting in Iraq, is to restore the rights we believe all people were granted by God which were violated by Hussein.

143 posted on 12/15/2003 8:37:06 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
You best forget the snail mail, because of antrax they are not delivered. They don't read emails. The only thing they do listen to is a face to face or a phone call.

I got this info from a friend of Senators secretary. She said voters rarely call about issues and we need to.
144 posted on 12/15/2003 8:39:04 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Naw Paulie, I'm way cuter.

Now, are you going to get around explaining that socialisdt attitude of yours or not?

When does someone else's money, seiozed by the Federal government, become "ours"?


145 posted on 12/15/2003 8:39:40 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
If the government did its job of keeping illegal aliens out, then there wouldn't be free for all, vitrol filled threads on FR. It seems to be that lining Vicente Fox's pockets with illbegotten money is more of a priority right now.
146 posted on 12/15/2003 8:41:15 PM PST by cyborg
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Naw Paulie, I'm way cuter.

You curtainly act like a baby, I mean you cannot even spell my name right.

147 posted on 12/15/2003 8:41:51 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The founders didn't mean that men have inalienable rights only when they cross our border. Or that anyone that wants to come here should be allowed to. There is such a thing as sovereignty, national boundries, the rights of citizens not to have their pockets picked to support invaders. In fact it is the duty of the congress to repel invaders with armed aggression, much as you dispise the idea. Do you live in constant fear of being returned to Cuba or what?
148 posted on 12/15/2003 8:50:50 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: MissAmericanPie
What do you know about what the Founders meant anyway?

And the one living in constant fear here is you babe.
149 posted on 12/15/2003 8:52:03 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: VU4G10
I've always considered WND to be about as reliable a news source as The National Enquirer, but I see they now have their eyes set on surpassing them.
150 posted on 12/15/2003 8:53:00 PM PST by Tempest
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