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Social Security for Mexicans closer to reality (Millions of immigrants to collect benefits)
www.wnd.com ^ | December 11, 2003 | WorldNetDaily

Posted on 12/11/2003 7:55:33 PM PST by VU4G10

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To: Paul C. Jesup
But I like Paulie!

Now, answer the question.
151 posted on 12/15/2003 8:53:03 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Tempest
LOl!!!
152 posted on 12/15/2003 8:53:31 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Tempest
Yeah why are they getting misleading with the article titles? I used to read them but not anymore really.
153 posted on 12/15/2003 8:54:55 PM PST by cyborg
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Now, are you going to get around explaining that socialist attitude of yours or not?

You're the socialist here Gonzo.

What part of: "We cannot afford that and since the politicians and their useful idiots don't care, this country is heading straight into an armed revolution." do you not understand.

154 posted on 12/15/2003 8:58:04 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Hey!

It's you advocating the unlawful seizure of other people's money, not me.

Are you going to explain when someone else's money becomes communal property Paulie?
155 posted on 12/15/2003 9:02:44 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
It's you advocating the unlawful seizure of other people's money, not me.

How is saying "WE CANNOT AFFORD IT" the advocating of seizure of other people's money Gonzo?

It is a stated fact that most social programs in the U.S. are going to go bankrupt in 10 to 20 years, if not sooner, WE CANNOT AFFORD what the government is planning to hand out already, let alone hand out MORE welfare money to another group of people.

156 posted on 12/15/2003 9:07:34 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Paul C. Jesup
"How is saying "WE CANNOT AFFORD IT" the advocating of seizure of other people's money Gonzo?"

I like Gonzo.

It's money we seized from their paychecks, if we are unwiulling to give it back, we should not seize it to begin with.

Get it now Paulie?

By the way.

Without immirants, the SSA would be bankrupt now.

157 posted on 12/15/2003 9:15:31 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I know alot more than you about what they meant. If your not living in fear you don't have a handle on the situation. I would say I'm living in outrage.
158 posted on 12/15/2003 9:21:08 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Paul C. Jesup
I'm confused. If I come into your house and steal money from you, does that mean I get to keep it?
159 posted on 12/15/2003 9:24:39 PM PST by cyborg
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To: MissAmericanPie
Yours is not outrage, yours is fear.

I don't fear anything, including being sent back to Cuba.

You on the other hand, fear much.
160 posted on 12/15/2003 9:25:22 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: cyborg
I'm confused. If I come into your house and steal money from you, does that mean I get to keep it?

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!

You just don't get, I am against government social programs, or should I say ponzi schemes.

161 posted on 12/15/2003 9:25:52 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Without immirants, the SSA would be bankrupt now.

That is pure BS, illegal immigrant take more out of the system than what they put into it.

Tell me, are you a MECHA member?

162 posted on 12/15/2003 9:27:28 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: VU4G10
Well I learned something yesterday. These congressman who will support social security payments to Mexico, should have their campaign and personal finances checked for investments in and by Citibank, Wells Fargo and Bank of America.

These three banks want this measure to pass, and in fact want the matricular consular phony IDs to be used by the illegals so that they can handle the illegals money. You know that nearly $30 billion a year is sent out of country by the illegals and these banks profit by allowing the illegals to use phony IDs to bank with them. They will make even more money if social security is sent to Mexico.

The dept of homeland security and the national security office want the borders closed.

The state department and the department of the treasury (along with the aforementioned banks) want it erased. Guess who is winning?

I would start directing letters to the state department the dept of the treasury requesting they change their policy. I would send letters to congress and the president demanding that America reform the state department and the department of the treasury now! They are not acting in the best interests of our country.

I would also write letters to the editor and give a few black eyes to these banks so that people know who is behind the lack of border defense.

This information came from a congressman on a talk show yesterday.

163 posted on 12/15/2003 9:27:58 PM PST by hedgetrimmer
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Actually the people who say that illegal aliens should get SSI don't get it. I wasn't clear though. I meant it in a way that if I came and stole money from your wallet, do I get to keep it somewhere down the line? I am personally dismayed at the amount of trial baloons being launched on behalf of Vicente Fox, who I consider to be an economic, and socio-political Saddam Hussein-type.
164 posted on 12/15/2003 9:30:00 PM PST by cyborg
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Border states will agree with you. Actually the reason why SSI hasn't gone bankrupt is because a lot of funds go unclaimed by citizens and DOCUMENTED LEGAL SS card holders.
165 posted on 12/15/2003 9:33:45 PM PST by cyborg
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To: hedgetrimmer
Which congressman? Tancredo?
166 posted on 12/15/2003 9:34:33 PM PST by cyborg
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To: cyborg
Paulie is making the argument that one is not obligated to pay back borrowed money if he can't afford the monthly payments.

These people came here legally, worked legally, paid taxes, paid into the SSA, and moved elsewhere to live out their life after retirement. They paid taxes for services received, and into the SSA with the same understanding we all have of this system, that we will receive a certain monthly payment from the government after retirement.

This is their money, they are entitled to it, and more importantly, the government is obligated to send it to them. There is rampant SS fraud here, and I don't hear anyone arguing that we should not receive our due because of that.
167 posted on 12/15/2003 9:34:42 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: cyborg
Actually the people who say that illegal aliens should get SSI don't get it.

In post 95, I was stating how it would be a bad idea to give (illegal) immigrants Social Sercurity. But you immediately flame me for it.

If this is your opinion, then you should apologize to me for wrongly flaming me for the exact samething you believe and agree on.

168 posted on 12/15/2003 9:35:52 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Stop talking to yourself MECHA member, Social Sercurity, like all social programs are pay as you go.
169 posted on 12/15/2003 9:37:23 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I agree. I do not think that illegal aliens have rights to ill begotten money which is what I thought was being discussed. There are American citizens who move to Israel,etc. but collect SSI. That's not wrong. They paid into the system.
170 posted on 12/15/2003 9:37:40 PM PST by cyborg
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Who? Me? I was not flaming you. Please read...

Posted by cyborg to Paul C. Jesup
On News/Activism 12/15/2003 9:30:00 PM PST #164 of 170

Actually the people who say that illegal aliens should get SSI don't get it. I wasn't clear though. I meant it in a way that if I came and stole money from your wallet, do I get to keep it somewhere down the line? I am personally dismayed at the amount of trial baloons being launched on behalf of Vicente Fox, who I consider to be an economic, and socio-political Saddam Hussein-type
171 posted on 12/15/2003 9:39:41 PM PST by cyborg
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I like when you tempt me.;o)
172 posted on 12/15/2003 9:40:08 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: cyborg
It was Congressman Tancredo.
173 posted on 12/15/2003 10:17:03 PM PST by hedgetrimmer
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To: hedgetrimmer
Figures. He's about the only one who knows (or bothers to find out) such things.
174 posted on 12/15/2003 10:17:40 PM PST by cyborg
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To: Paul C. Jesup; cyborg
"Tell me, are you a MECHA member?"

No, just better informed than you.

This country stands at the onset of the mother of all retirement waves, the baby boomers just began to take up gardening and give up the daily grind.

This coupled with the fact that we are reproducing less than ever in the history of the nation, is severely lowering our worker to retiree ratio, so badly so that the government estimates that in the year 2050, we will be able to absorb the entire working age population of Mexico into the US, and still not match the worker to retiree ration in pre-millenium America.

You can spend some time reading here for verification if you wish.

As far as taking more out of the system than they put in, is dependent of the age they entered into the country as a legal immigrant.

Note: as the number of children in the nation diminish, classrooms will empty, and since it does not cost more money to educate the child of an immigrant than the child of a native-born citizen, the actual cost differential would be nominal. On the other hand, if we are going to allow immigrants to come and stay, then it is in the best interest of the nation to make certain that the children receive some sort of an education. Additionally, the cost of keeping these kids in school, would be significantly less than either the ensuing increase in crime and property loss as a result of their having nothing to do all day, plus the cost of policing them.

Europe is going through the very same thing, the most visible difference being that they are sustaining growth by introducing Muslims, and we are introducing mostly Hispanics. The reasons should be obvious, and given a choice, I would have picked Hispanics any way.

Interesting side note, I read recently some data on the growth of Islam in the West, and the figures told an interesting story: there were two places where it had negative growth figures...Central and South America.

175 posted on 12/15/2003 10:26:15 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Mecha? Those are fighting words. That's like calling someone a KKK.

SSI is in the trouble it is now because people are living longer, people are lazier than ever. I think personal medical/retirement accounts are better.
176 posted on 12/15/2003 10:39:35 PM PST by cyborg
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To: Luis Gonzalez
You seem to forget one important fact, illegal immigrant Mexicans are NOT loyal to the U.S., what makes you think they will pays the taxes, when they are already getting the benefits without paying taxes, they are part of the welfare class, not the taxpayer class. This leaves the citizens of the U.S. to paid for everyone else's freeride and since Gen X and Y have been getting the shaft for the past 20 years, things will come to a head and there will be a revolt.
177 posted on 12/15/2003 11:27:58 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: cyborg
Absolutely they have zero rights....they do not have status as an American or naturalized citizen. They've broken federal law to begin with by even being here on our soil so I fail to see how they have standing in the courts. However, I see one possible scenario that's being utilized by the ill-informed, de-construct America open borders crowd, namely the invocation of some the UN's recent declarations of human rights (don't remember the exact terminology) which could very well be the driving force behind all this illegal immigration. As time goes on and I see the millions of people who've latched themselves on to our welfare system who are not even American citizens, at a huge expense for us and our children I believe that our participation in various UN treaties has cost us our sovereignty in issues such as illegal immigration and we could very well have arrived at a point where UN "dictates" now supersede our internal US laws.
178 posted on 12/16/2003 7:29:09 AM PST by american spirit (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION = NATIONAL SUICIDE)
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Agree with what you say and that sad part is now that the middle class is slowly eliminated by ill-concieved trade and immigration schemes we're turning into a nation of two classes of people.....producers & predators (parasites might be too strong). In the category of producers I would include a high % of immigrants who've come here, respect our heritage, work and pay taxes and contribute to our society. These are the kinds of folks I would be proud to call my neighbor....on the other hand we're now having to deal with those predators that care nothing about this country and now in a postion to extract gov't benefits WHERE NONE ARE DESERVED! Our job now is to draw the line in the sand otherwise our children will be relegated to a hellish future.
179 posted on 12/16/2003 7:42:20 AM PST by american spirit (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION = NATIONAL SUICIDE)
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To: Paul C. Jesup
"You seem to forget one important fact, illegal immigrant Mexicans are NOT loyal to the U.S."

Neither are a vast number of native-born, what's your point?

"...what makes you think they will pays the taxes, when they are already getting the benefits without paying taxes..."

What gives you the idea that paying taxes is an option in this country?

Try buying something at Sears and tell them that you'd rather not pay taxes.

As usual on this thread, you're making absolutely no sense.

180 posted on 12/16/2003 8:27:09 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez; american spirit
American Spirit could you please explain this to Luis, I have tried for the last 75 posts and it is like talking to a brick wall.
181 posted on 12/16/2003 8:32:29 AM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Paul C. Jesup
After debating this subject for years with various folks who are most passionate about this whole issue I've come to the conclusion that sometimes the veracity of someone's passion can conflict with their objectivity. This is probably the case for me, you and perhaps Luis and others.....can't say for sure. One thing I am sure of is that if this issue is not dealt with, we'll see upheaval of some sort and eventually this country will be no more....it'll turn into just another UN designated free trade zone with no borders, no US Constitution and any rights we think we ever had will be gone.
182 posted on 12/16/2003 9:09:12 AM PST by american spirit (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION = NATIONAL SUICIDE)
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To: american spirit
I care as much about the UN as I care about Saddamy. I am disturbed to say the least when I hear Sandra Day O Connor talking about 'international law'. There are communist front groups like Green Peace and ANSWER and Amnesty International, even some parts of the Red Cross excuse me does anyone doubt US will treat Saddam Hussein with the utmost care? What was the first thing we did? I reference the video murder of Danny Pearl if the shoe was on the other foot. BUT I digress.

This reminds of racial preferences and affirmative action. The liberals are so paranoid that America will deprive 'minorities' of rights that will make slavery look like a cake walk. Why do liberals have such a low estimation of American kindness to enemies? Do they think we'll let illegal aliens die in the street from disease or something? I don't think so. I agree with you in that we need to be concerned about the 'human rights' crowd. Things my parents used to consider a privilege are now a RIGHT.

Here in NY, we get a lot of illegals from China and Eastern Europe. For some reason the Mexicans have picked Farmingville, LI as their landing base, BUT it's nothing compared to what's going in Cali and Texas. If the government doesn't do its job, people will start taking things into their own hands.

/rant off/ (that first cup of coffee was a doosey)
183 posted on 12/16/2003 9:28:49 AM PST by cyborg
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To: cyborg
I'm with you as far as the UN goes....everytime I see a picture of that assortment of misfits I'm reminded of the bar scene from Star Wars. The problem is those in political power, elected and appointed, seem to have an inordinate amount of allegiance to the UN policies and dictates....why?, I just can't figure it out. Many folks who've been trying to make sense of this idiocy for some time tend to believe that USA INC. is in some sort of bankruptcy and that the UN is in involved with our affairs as a bankruptcy trustee or receiver...can't say for sure but how else does an organization like seemingly assume more and more control over our affairs?

Also, I do believe this trend towards open borders is part 'n parcel of this FTAA....Free Trade Area of the Americas's which looks more and more like our version of the EU. If so, I believe our Constitutional rights, national sovereignty, etc. are in serious, serious, jeopardy. Illegal immigration is just the mechanism for conditioning us to accept all these intruders, pay their way while having to keep our months shut in the process. Even the dumbed down American public will someday figure this out, then there'll be hell to pay.
184 posted on 12/16/2003 9:50:38 AM PST by american spirit (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION = NATIONAL SUICIDE)
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To: VU4G10
President Bush: Please don't do this. I am in my fifties and SS will in all likelihood not be availble to me, and I've been paying into it ever since I was 16. And you are going to extend SS benefits to ILLEGAL Mexicans??????????? That will GUARANTEE that I won't see a dime of the countless thousands of dollars I was forced to pay into SS. Your stance on immigration, especially your apparent surrender to Mexico, and your placing of Mexcian interests above those of Americans, will GUARANTEE that you will not get my vote in 2004. I have thought your performance as president thus has been pretty good (you've made a couple blunders, but you're light years better than Gore ever would have been). But I must tell you this: America is very dear to my heart, and I proudly served her, faithfully, while in the US Air Force during Vietnam. To see America become a third-world toilet just to satisfy Mexico is beyond the pale, though.
185 posted on 12/16/2003 10:00:25 AM PST by ought-six
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To: org.whodat
"I see another one term BUSH as the result."

Yup. I can't believe he'd be so boneheaded as to do this, but it looks like maybe he is. My God, were the Dims right, after all? Is GWB a dunce?
186 posted on 12/16/2003 10:02:36 AM PST by ought-six
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To: vladog
The shocking thing is we are being conquered by MEXICO! We aren't even being conquered by a first-world country. We are being taken over by a third-world, filthy, backward, semi-literate toilet of a country, without a shot being fired. God, I am so disgusted.
187 posted on 12/16/2003 10:07:39 AM PST by ought-six
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
I can't think of a more sensitive issue, and one that will ultimately result in a huge backlash against illegals, than this one. As the song says: We're headed for a showdown.
188 posted on 12/16/2003 10:17:04 AM PST by ought-six
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"So, apparently either your entire problem is with Mexicans, or you didn't read the article before you posted."

Hey Luis: Our problem is with ILLEGALS! It just so happens the vast, vast majority of illegals are Mexican.

189 posted on 12/16/2003 10:19:56 AM PST by ought-six
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"Undocumented aliens are simply that, undocumented...."

Your comment says it all. You won't even admit they are illegal...to you, they are just "undocumented." You no doubt have no problem with their illegality, or the fact they are criminals just by the very fact they broke our laws when they snuck across tho border. My mother was a LEGAL immigrant, and she played by the rules, followed the law, and became an American citizen. Your comments suggest she was a chump for doing things the proper way. I wager that if the illegals were from Tibet you'd be singing a different tune, and you would not only call them illegals, you'd be all for rounding them up and deporting them without delay.
190 posted on 12/16/2003 10:26:10 AM PST by ought-six
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To: ought-six
Idiot.

If you are an alien, and you are here undocumented, then you are here illegaly.

My comment directly addressed the fact that without documentation you cannot present DOCUMENTS to submit your claim to SS benefits.

Of course I have a problem with people being here illegally you simpleton, I have a problem with anyone who does anything illegal.

This forum is being overrun by morons, time to get out.
191 posted on 12/16/2003 10:56:58 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: ought-six
We're headed for a showdown.

Yyyyyyup.

192 posted on 12/16/2003 11:22:26 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (I have opinions of my own - strong opinions - but I don't always agree with them.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Neither are a vast number of native-born, what's your point?

Which you're one of.

What gives you the idea that paying taxes is an option in this country?

It is for illegal immigrants, they come here to live off the taxpayers. They are not going pay for services that they are already getting for free.

193 posted on 12/16/2003 8:33:24 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"Idiot....Of course I have a problem with people being here illegally you simpleton...."

Ah yes, the voice of reason. When someone takes a position with which you disagree, they are "idiots" and "simpletons." Perhaps that was what they taught you was the essense of debate in the leftist schools you attended. Besides, your argument is spurilous: Illegals also use ILLEGAL documents to obtain benefits, etc.: There was a recent bust in California involving fake SS cards and the like, and the ring was operated by Mexicans that were here in the U.S. But, that is obviously okay with you. You know something? Whenever you speak, something is subtracted from the sum total of human knowledge.
194 posted on 12/19/2003 5:44:31 AM PST by ought-six
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