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Get over it, Carr tells jobless lawyers
Sydney Morning Herald ^ | 12/7/2003 | Alex Mitchell

Posted on 12/12/2003 4:06:24 PM PST by ccmay

Premier Bob Carr has a blunt message for the hundreds of Sydney lawyers out of work because of his Government's law reforms: "Get retrained and start another job."

He was unmoved by the report that the entire 14th floor of Wardell Chambers in Martin Place, employing 23 barristers and support staff, will close its doors on December 31.

Offering no apology for the jobs shake-out in law practices following his legislative assault on "the culture of litigation", Mr Carr said: "The fact is there will be fewer jobs for lawyers, but with their education they are well placed to go into retraining.

"In this modern day and age a lot of workers have had to be retrained.

"Lawyers are not a protected species, and their habits of over-litigation were adding to the cost of doing business in NSW.

"We couldn't have allowed it to go on."

Mr Carr claimed that while excessive litigation had lined the pockets of lawyers, it had resulted in the closure of community events, the wrecking of the workers' compensation system and could have put thousands of people out of work.

Over the past 18 months the Carr Government has introduced a series of major reforms on public liability to reduce the financial impact on insurance companies and to slow down the escalating rate of premiums.

The Civil Liability (Personal Responsibility) Act and its amendments introduced caps and thresholds on compensation and shifted the balance towards greater personal responsibility to avoid long and expensive court cases.

The result has been a sharp drop in casework for solicitors and barristers specialising in personal injury cases.

"We reformed it," Mr Carr said. "But I make no apologies for cleaning up this culture of over-litigation, of reining it in.

"Everyone was suing everyone and trying to get a pot of money at the end of the rainbow.

"And it was just bankrupting Australia, so we cleaned it up.

"Now workers are getting more out of the workers' comp system and they are going to continue to get more," he said. "But it does mean less going to lawyers. I know where I prefer it to go."

NSW Bar Association president Ian Harrison, SC, said last week that a quarter to a third of all barristers would disappear or have their practices adversely affected within the next six to 18 months.

The Wardell Chambers floor closure is linked directly to the winding up of the NSW Workers Compensation Court this month and restrictions on injury claims under the Government's reforms.

NSW Law Society president Robert Benjamin said 30 to 40 per cent of the state's 18,000 solicitors were involved in personal injury and compensation work and would be hit by the Carr Government's law changes.


TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: attorney; australia; dontneednostinkinlaw; dontsueshoot; getrevengeoutofcourt; hurttoobad; invitesselfhelp; law; lawyer; nodayincourt; nojustice; pirate; pondscum; protectthecorrupt; screwtheinjured; shark; shootdontsue; tortreform; vampire; vulture
Praise God, somebody somewhere has finally had the balls to take on the pirates of the plaintiff's bar. Can't we do the same here? I'd like to see 90 percent of them jobless. I don't care if they have to scrounge in dumpsters to feed their families. I want them CRUSHED. I want them RUINED. I want them DESTROYED.

-ccm

1 posted on 12/12/2003 4:06:25 PM PST by ccmay
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To: ccmay
Cry me a friggin river ... lawyers ...
2 posted on 12/12/2003 4:07:44 PM PST by Dunedain
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To: ccmay
Sounds like Mr. Carr is up on his Shakespeare. LOL!
3 posted on 12/12/2003 4:09:18 PM PST by EggsAckley
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To: ccmay
Heck yeah, the world needs more ditch-diggers, not lawyers. :^)
4 posted on 12/12/2003 4:10:58 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: ccmay
This is bad news..LOL...really bad news.
5 posted on 12/12/2003 4:11:23 PM PST by caisson71
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To: ccmay
I think the American economy will be much better when lawyers, bureaucrats, and TV personalities face the prospect of their jobs being reduced and then outsourced to India. That's the change we need. We don't need further loss of honest jobs for everyday Americans.

WFTR
Bill

6 posted on 12/12/2003 4:15:33 PM PST by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: ccmay
Offering no apology for the jobs shake-out in law practices following his legislative assault on "the culture of litigation", Mr Carr said: "The fact is there will be fewer jobs for lawyers, but with their education they are well placed to go into retraining.


Oh God!, don't we need that man in America? What a wonderful thing. I hope it catches on & spreads throught the world!

7 posted on 12/12/2003 4:16:34 PM PST by jrushing
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To: ccmay
Halleluia -- From the land down under -- A burst of hope for common sense on earth.
8 posted on 12/12/2003 4:19:05 PM PST by thinktwice (America is truly blessed ... with George W. Bush as President..)
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To: ccmay
Offering no apology for the jobs shake-out in law practices following his legislative assault on "the culture of litigation", Mr Carr said: "The fact is there will be fewer jobs for lawyers, but with their education they are well placed to go into retraining.

I've been paracticing law for nearly a quarter century. I don't hesitate in the least in writing my opinion that the legal profession very badly needs to be reined in, from the plaintiff bar to corporate counsel to the "public defender" (HA!!!) to government counsel to the bench. And laypeople are going to have to do it, because I can tell you as an insider that members of this unprincipled profession are never going to do it themselves.

9 posted on 12/12/2003 4:20:04 PM PST by Map Kernow (In terra pax in hominibus bonae voluntatis)
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To: ccmay
Praise the lord indeed; come on over Mr.Carr we need a new labor secretary.
10 posted on 12/12/2003 4:20:17 PM PST by SF Republican
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To: ccmay
Let's import Mr. Carr.
11 posted on 12/12/2003 4:20:42 PM PST by DLfromthedesert (What is the point of fighting in Iraq if we surrender to Vicente?)
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To: ccmay; 1Old Pro; eastsider; Liz
The Civil Liability (Personal Responsibility) Act and its amendments introduced caps and thresholds on compensation and shifted the balance towards greater personal responsibility to avoid long and expensive court cases.

Thanks for posting this thread!!! Perhaps it will inspire some US politicians to follow suit. Litigation in this country is tantamount to winning the lottery.

I read somewhere that excessive litigation was one of the factors that lead to the collapse of Ancient Greece.

12 posted on 12/12/2003 4:22:20 PM PST by NYer (Keep CHRIST in Christmas!)
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To: Map Kernow
I've been paracticing law for nearly a quarter century. I don't hesitate in the least in writing my opinion that the legal profession very badly needs to be reined in, from the plaintiff bar to corporate counsel to the "public defender" (HA!!!) to government counsel to the bench. And laypeople are going to have to do it, because I can tell you as an insider that members of this unprincipled profession are never going to do it themselves.

The most honest statement I have ever heard from a true member of the bar. My congratualtions to you.

13 posted on 12/12/2003 4:24:28 PM PST by FormerACLUmember (A person is only as big as the dream they dare to live.)
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To: ccmay
OK, what do we need as part of a DeLawyerification plan? For a start how about...
14 posted on 12/12/2003 4:28:16 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: ccmay
The revolution has begun! Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
15 posted on 12/12/2003 4:28:42 PM PST by tlrugit
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To: NYer
I read somewhere that excessive litigation was one of the factors that lead to the collapse of Ancient Greece.

I don't know about Greece, but it certainly was a serious problem in Rome. The threat of constant litigation was an important reason why Julius Ceaser marched on Rome.

16 posted on 12/12/2003 4:31:01 PM PST by jimtorr
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To: ccmay
I live for the day when I see a bum on street corner dressed in dirty, torn Armani suit, with a duct-taped briefcase, holding a sign that says, "will litigate for food."
17 posted on 12/12/2003 4:31:10 PM PST by PsyOp (Latest survey shows that 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of the world population. The rest are lawyers)
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To: ccmay
Why can't lawyers go to the beach?

Because cats bury them with sand. LOL
18 posted on 12/12/2003 4:38:20 PM PST by Ben Chad
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To: ccmay
Isn't that cute? Look at the keywords some lawyer scumbag attached to the comments:

DONTNEEDNOSTINKINLAW; DONTSUESHOOT; GETREVENGEOUTOFCOURT; HURTTOOBAD; INVITESSELFHELP; NODAYINCOURT; NOJUSTICE; PROTECTTHECORRUPT; SCREWTHEINJURED; SHOOTDONTSUE

Come out wherever you are, and defend the indefensible. I say you are all pirates and trouble-making dirt bags.

-ccm

19 posted on 12/12/2003 4:39:40 PM PST by ccmay
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To: ccmay
I thot maybe they had hung all those lawyers. Well, half a loaf is better than none.
20 posted on 12/12/2003 4:41:53 PM PST by cynicom
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To: DannyTN
OK, what do we need as part of a DeLawyerification plan?

The main thing is to break the vicious cycle of incest between the Democratic Party scum and the trial lawyer scum.

The Democrats pass nebulous laws with generous penalties, to invite lawsuits and bankrupt entire industries. The lawyer scum makes millions. Then the lawyer filth donate big buck$$$ to elect more Democrat pond scum to office.

Destroy the perverted Democratic Party filth, and you destroy the greedy trial-lawyer filth, and vice versa. What's not to like?

-ccm

21 posted on 12/12/2003 4:45:13 PM PST by ccmay
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To: ccmay
I received a check yesterday for .03 from a class action lawsuit from a credit card. Yes, you read right...THREE CENTS. I'd like to know how much the lawyers got from this one.
22 posted on 12/12/2003 4:46:47 PM PST by Hildy
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To: jimtorr
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."

-- Alexander Fraser Tyler (later Lord Alexander Fraser Woodhouslee), in "The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic," published 1776.
23 posted on 12/12/2003 4:47:28 PM PST by EagleWings
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To: ccmay
"Destroy the perverted Democratic Party filth, and you destroy the greedy trial-lawyer filth, and vice versa. What's not to like? "

So we simply keep electing Republicans until both democrats and the lawyers cease to exist?

24 posted on 12/12/2003 4:48:07 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: ccmay
Wow. Go Aussies. Can we get this guy to move to Pa.?
25 posted on 12/12/2003 4:49:09 PM PST by Tribune7 (David Limbaugh never said his brother had a "nose like a vacuum cleaner")
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To: #3Fan
Heck yeah, the world needs more ditch-diggers, not lawyers. :^)

What the world really needs is more scientists and engineers and physicians and architects and small-business owners. Lawyers are typically smart enough to do any of these jobs. By choosing to engage in destructive, corrosive legal plundering instead of an honest profession, they are destroying civil society. Let them find honest constructive work, or starve to death for all I care.

-ccm

26 posted on 12/12/2003 4:51:27 PM PST by ccmay
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To: WFTR
I think the American economy will be much better when lawyers, bureaucrats, and TV personalities face the prospect of their jobs being reduced and then outsourced to India. That's the change we need.

We don't need their jobs outsourced, the problem is that these groups ARE THE GOVERNMENT and business faces high cost because of lawyers and bureaucrats.

The TV heads are just rooting for them and thus helping them deceive voters.

27 posted on 12/12/2003 4:57:10 PM PST by alrea
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To: ccmay
Praise God, somebody somewhere has finally had the balls to take on the pirates of the plaintiff's bar. Can't we do the same here? I'd like to see 90 percent of them jobless. I don't care if they have to scrounge in dumpsters to feed their families. I want them CRUSHED. I want them RUINED. I want them DESTROYED.

Well... I am NOT sorry to tell you that I disagree with your comment.

I want them RUINED. I want them DESTROYED. I want them CRUSHED !!! ;-))

.

28 posted on 12/12/2003 5:04:56 PM PST by GeekDejure ( LOL = Liberals Obey Lucifer !!!)
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To: DannyTN
So we simply keep electing Republicans until both democrats and the lawyers cease to exist?

Well, we elect a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, a solid majority in the House, hang on to the White House, and win an overwhelming majority in the governors' chairs and legislatures of the states.

Then we pack the courts to the brim with reactionary strict-constructionists, from city traffic court to the Supreme Court.

We get rid of elected judges (who are whores for the trial bar) and replace them with appointed judges that are subject to retention elections every four years.

Then we ram tort reform through like a steam roller. Loser-pays, caps on damages, no pain & suuffering or contingency fees or punitive damages or class action suits, the whole ball of wax. Really stick it to the lawyers and bankrupt them by the millions.

Will some people who suffer real harm find it harder to collect? Yes. Tough $h!t. That's the price to be paid to save society from the filthy wreckers and buccaneers.

I'd rather save Little League and diving boards and obstetrical care for my wife, than have the the right to try to hit the jackpot for millions of dollars when I spill hot coffee on my own stupid lap.

We must make the legal profession such a miserable, poverty stricken, disreputable field that no sensible person would wish to enter it. Sort of like it is in Japan, where most families would prefer their son to be a brothel owner rather than a lawyer.

-ccm

29 posted on 12/12/2003 5:05:11 PM PST by ccmay
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To: ccmay
Your comments are GREAT.

And funny.

And true.

30 posted on 12/12/2003 5:05:33 PM PST by FormerACLUmember (A person is only as big as the dream they dare to live.)
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To: ccmay
A'int no big deal---LOSER PAYS. Most civilized countries have a loser pays system, only way to do it and stop the greed.

I just got out of a legal problem that is could have settled myself but the opposing lawyer would not talk to me until I hired a lawyer, they take care of each other.

Lawyers are proof that homosexual relations beget children.

31 posted on 12/12/2003 5:12:34 PM PST by BIGZ
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To: BIGZ
Most civilized countries have a loser pays system, only way to do it and stop the greed.

I agree, that is the single biggest step, along with caps on damages. Moreover, I would make the lawyer pay 33% (plus expenses) out of his own bulging pocket. He shares in the potential jackpot, it's only fair that he shares in the risk too.

-ccm

32 posted on 12/12/2003 5:16:36 PM PST by ccmay
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To: jimtorr
that is a new one on me about Greece.

However I do know that the philosopher who burried a fly on his estate was not so crazy. Rome had a law that made property tax exempt if there was a family tomb on the property. So the philosopher burried his beloved pet fly. no taxes.
33 posted on 12/12/2003 5:19:39 PM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: Map Kernow
Count me in as another lawyer that thinks the profession has gotten out of control.

Limits must be imposed.

I have nothing against average people getting their day in court to seek compensation for real harm that was caused by the fault of others.

But that's not what this is about.

34 posted on 12/12/2003 5:21:49 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: ccmay
The Civil Liability (Personal Responsibility) Act and its amendments introduced caps and thresholds on compensation and shifted the balance towards greater personal responsibility to avoid long and expensive court cases.

The result has been a sharp drop in casework for solicitors and barristers specialising in personal injury cases.

I want one!


35 posted on 12/12/2003 5:23:35 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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To: ccmay
We get rid of elected judges (who are whores for the trial bar) and replace them with appointed judges that are subject to retention elections every four years.

We like electing them in Texas. We elect Republicans.

And we also recently passed tort reform with caps. Appointment and retention works almost as well.

36 posted on 12/12/2003 5:24:55 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: ccmay
If someone in America would talk like this, he would be a front-runner for the 2008 Republican presidential nomination.
37 posted on 12/12/2003 5:25:49 PM PST by JoeSchem
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To: EagleWings
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."

-- Alexander Fraser Tyler (later Lord Alexander Fraser Woodhouslee), in "The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic," published 1776.

Mr. Tyler, meet California.

Just reading this gave me goosebumps. Talk about priescent!

38 posted on 12/12/2003 5:25:56 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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To: ccmay
actually we already have the penalties which make the lawyer equally responsible for costs. (at least on the federal level)

As for looser pays, most contracts have an attorneys fees clause. NO need for yet more law. Just include it in your agreements.

Many big corporations are requiring arbitration these days. No courts.

Actually many of the larger firms do regularly risk their own money by advancing the costs for the case. If the case looses, they loose the money. Not a good thing considering 2 out of every ten cases turn a profit.

It is hard to talk rational with people about the way things are and what causes what. What about the juries? If the jury simply said ZERO money there would be no award to split. How many FR have served on a civil jury?

Consider the recent Rosie case. Would the zero dollar result have been different before a jury of citizens? Perhaps we should also eliminate juries from civil cases. We all know how wise and unbiased judges can be.

BTW in many cases the STATE gets a piece of the punative damages award.

39 posted on 12/12/2003 5:30:43 PM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: freedumb2003
The same thing happened with some states with workers comp reform. All the lawyers found/created work in other areas.

Nobody gives up a six digit income without a fight.

Perhaps a few state law schools could be shut down. I read that 1/2 of all practicing lawyers are under 45. It will be interesting to see how the fact that a slight majority of law students are female works into the career mix of future lawyers.

How would the "big picture" be if there were fewer lawyers in the personal injury arena? How would it be if there was an education/training requirement for juries.

(s)Perhaps out of work lawyers could be professional jurrors. You could pay them the same amount of money as judges. (/s)
40 posted on 12/12/2003 5:39:21 PM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: Hildy
You too. Got you beat, I got thre seperate checks in 3 envelopes 14 cents, 14 cents, and 4 cents.

What a crock.
41 posted on 12/12/2003 5:53:13 PM PST by packrat35 (reality is for people who can't face science fiction)
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To: ccmay
"What the world really needs is more scientists and engineers and physicians and architects and small-business owners. Lawyers are typically smart enough to do any of these jobs."

Well, here is where I disagree. Lawyers are smart enough to be small business owners, but it is a widely acknowledged situation that most folks who enter the field of law are NOT naturally endowed with the abilities required to be scientists, engineers, doctors, or architects. They lack math ability, and for the most part come from the "humanities". Of course, a lot of them think they "know better" about medicine than doctors, etc. but that doesn't change the fact that a good many of them would have pursued such careers, but didn't have the god-given talent to do so.

I say this as a person who is really bad at math, and currently works as a bookkeeper for a law firm. Beleive me, I know technology not only destroys jobs but creates them. Without the man who invented the calculator, I'd never have my job. But my grasp of arithmatic is top-notch and I tell you in all sincerity, out of 12 lawyers at my firm 2 (two) only are numerate at all. And they do all the trusts and estates work. The rest are completely hopeless. And these are men with fine educations, quite smart, wonderful fellows. You wouldn't want them making your change at the supermarket, forget about being engineers. The average low level drug dealer has a better working relationship with numbers than they do.

So all these unemployed Aussie lawyers better start writing the Great Australian Novel, and maybe we'll get lucky on it.

And I am NOT being sarcastic.
42 posted on 12/12/2003 6:36:50 PM PST by jocon307 (Support Vouchers, Break the Unions, Save the Children!)
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To: SF Republican
Praise the lord indeed; come on over Mr.Carr we need a new labor secretary.

We surely need him in Calif to help clean up Workmen's comp. They raised rates over 100% in the past 2 years, and they are "giving" us back a 3.6 % reduction. When I do the math, there is still a serious impact to the business owner.
Can we invite this man to speak to the Calif Legislature with MANDATORY attendance by the "elected representatives" ?
43 posted on 12/12/2003 6:59:51 PM PST by ridesthemiles (ridesthemiles)
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To: ccmay
I want them CRUSHED. I want them RUINED. I want them DESTROYED.

That's awfully judgmental, cc. You know it's really unfair how all lawyers get that bad reputation because of the way 99% of them act.

44 posted on 12/13/2003 1:21:15 AM PST by TheMole
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To: ccmay
What the world really needs is more scientists and engineers and physicians and architects and small-business owners. Lawyers are typically smart enough to do any of these jobs. By choosing to engage in destructive, corrosive legal plundering instead of an honest profession, they are destroying civil society. Let them find honest constructive work, or starve to death for all I care.

I agree.

45 posted on 12/13/2003 3:13:22 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: Map Kernow
Practicing
46 posted on 12/13/2003 3:16:10 PM PST by Spell Correctly (It's the truth, I read it on the Internet)
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To: Spell Correctly
Practicing

It's this darn new laptop---it's paractically impossible to keep your fingers on the right keys all the time! :)

47 posted on 12/13/2003 3:26:33 PM PST by Map Kernow (In terra pax in hominibus bonae voluntatis)
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To: Map Kernow
I hate laptops.
48 posted on 12/13/2003 3:27:42 PM PST by Spell Correctly (It's the truth, I read it on the Internet)
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To: Hildy
I received a check yesterday for .03 from a class action lawsuit from a credit card. Yes, you read right...THREE CENTS. I'd like to know how much the lawyers got from this one.

Hah! I was in that class action too, and I got $0.46, yep forty-six cents.

49 posted on 12/13/2003 3:28:15 PM PST by Petronski (Living life in a minor key.)
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