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US Bases in Germany will be closed
Die Welt am Sonntag | 12-13-2003 | Americanbychoice

Posted on 12/13/2003 8:49:36 AM PST by americanbychoice

Minister of Defense, Peter Struck has announced the closing of military bases and a decrease of American Soldiers in Germany. Their State Departement, Defence Ministry and American representatives are building a "Work group", announced Struck to Die Welt am Sonntag. After that,the American Secretary of Defense and Congress will decide in the Spring.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: militarybases
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It is about Time. Let the EUrinals go ahead with their own military defense and we need to look for new Allies that we can trust.
1 posted on 12/13/2003 8:49:36 AM PST by americanbychoice
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To: americanbychoice
auf wiedersehen.
2 posted on 12/13/2003 8:51:58 AM PST by witnesstothefall
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To: americanbychoice
Ahh, we'll have to just rebuild them in another decade or so when the Islamics start building training camps in the cities they are taking over as we speak and we need to move the war on terror to the Islam-Euro front.
3 posted on 12/13/2003 8:52:01 AM PST by riri
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To: americanbychoice
Witamy do Polski!!
Welcome to Poland!!
4 posted on 12/13/2003 8:54:20 AM PST by Bon mots
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To: americanbychoice
We are gone, losers.
Protect yourselves, idiots.
Have your way with France.
5 posted on 12/13/2003 8:56:28 AM PST by WinOne4TheGipper (I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every moment of it.)
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To: americanbychoice
Da svedanya, komrades.
6 posted on 12/13/2003 8:57:15 AM PST by IronJack
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To: witnesstothefall
Bis Bald und Tscush und gruess gott
7 posted on 12/13/2003 8:57:22 AM PST by riri
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To: will1776
Two weeks ago Germany and France both agreed not to spend one EURO toward Iraq. They also won't send any Troops into a "dangerous place". I didn't hear our President chastise them for doing what they felt was the right thing to do.
What right do they have to criticise the US for the manner in which we spend our tax dollars?
Ingrates.
The saga continues.
Pi$$ in their Eurinals
8 posted on 12/13/2003 8:58:20 AM PST by americanbychoice
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To: americanbychoice
Two problems. Allies are getting pretty scarce unless we can buy their support. The defense of Europe was part of our strategy of keeping a wary eye on the Germans and preventing a resurgence of their militarism.
9 posted on 12/13/2003 8:59:12 AM PST by meenie (Remember the Alamo! Alamo! One more time. Alamo!!!)
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To: witnesstothefall
A big hit for Germany's economy.

Schadenfreude.

10 posted on 12/13/2003 9:01:44 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: americanbychoice
Actually, we have plenty of excellent allies in Europe.

We just don't need the back stabbing French, German and French lite, and Belgium socialist/fascists in charge of those 3 countries.

When their buddy, the mass murdering $oddomite underwent regime change, they lost a huge cash cow.

When Iran and Syria under go their upcoming regime changes, they will have no middle east cash cows.

It will be interesting to watch their unemployment rates soar, their deficits soar and their good citizens decide it is past time to flush the current leadership down and away.
11 posted on 12/13/2003 9:01:49 AM PST by Grampa Dave (George $orea$$ has owned and controlled the Rats for decades!)
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To: meenie
Let them get militant. We're just going to be next door, pumping our US dollars into the economy of a REAL ally
12 posted on 12/13/2003 9:02:42 AM PST by McGavin999
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To: meenie
Staying there certainly didn't keep Germany as an ally. Why not leave?
13 posted on 12/13/2003 9:03:01 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: meenie
Our mission has been completed some time ago. Now let's stop pouring OUR money into countries that are certainly have no need to be developed.
Just a hypothtical, Just suppose, The US forms alliances with China, Russia, Japan, Australia, etc., would that lead to a more stable world?
14 posted on 12/13/2003 9:03:30 AM PST by americanbychoice
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To: americanbychoice
Germany:

This is what you get from throwing stones in the well from which you drink.

15 posted on 12/13/2003 9:04:57 AM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: americanbychoice
Schadenfreude!

The next two years will be massive Schadenfreude for the Germans until they take to the streets and the ballot to cast out the socialists/communists/fascists/anti American clowns.

16 posted on 12/13/2003 9:05:19 AM PST by Grampa Dave (George $orea$$ has owned and controlled the Rats for decades!)
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To: meenie
resurgence of their militarism We can keep an eye on their militarism from Poland. Besides, the Brits on one end and Russians on the other will keep them in check. Remember, Germany's great advantage in the early 20th century was that its industrialization was well ahead of its neighbors, that is no longer the case.
17 posted on 12/13/2003 9:06:29 AM PST by blanknoone
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To: Grampa Dave
I vote for new American bases in Poland.
18 posted on 12/13/2003 9:07:04 AM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Your joy is your sorrow unmasked." --- GIBRAN)
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To: americanbychoice
Yippie...and move all our troops home...to protect us for a change rather than them steeenking Euronels...
Adios comrade
19 posted on 12/13/2003 9:07:23 AM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: Grampa Dave
If the EU constitution goes through, there will be a revolution within a few years.
20 posted on 12/13/2003 9:08:05 AM PST by americanbychoice
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To: Teacher317
as we stayed and protected them they became lovers of the peace movement. they have not yet had to fight for their freedom. they will learn soon enough.
21 posted on 12/13/2003 9:09:33 AM PST by q_an_a
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To: meenie
A resurgescence of German militarism? Please.
22 posted on 12/13/2003 9:14:59 AM PST by nathanbedford
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To: meenie
The defense of Europe was part of our strategy of keeping a wary eye on the Germans and preventing aresurgence of their militarism.

I don't want to get in a tiff here, but Versailles and the League of Nations were intended to contain German militarism. That was after WWI.

After WWII, there was no Germany left to speak of, and our defense of Europe was against Soviet tanks.

23 posted on 12/13/2003 9:15:13 AM PST by witnesstothefall
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To: meenie
keeping a wary eye on the Germans and preventing a resurgence of their militarism

LOL. The Germans would not do anything that might interfere with urlaub machen. (vacationing). The Germany of today is not your father's Germany.

Germany is toast. The Koran will be required reading inside of ten years and Sharia is not long after that.

24 posted on 12/13/2003 9:18:17 AM PST by riri
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To: americanbychoice
Excellent move. Its time we shifted our weight further South and East. Also, it's long past time we left the rotting innards of old Europe, and moved to where our presence is appreciated.

If they don't want to be on our side, that's perfectly OK. I think we are politely disentangling ourselves from the situation, and relocating.

It's an interesting position on their part. One one hand, they're acting like we're this bloodthirsty, gunslinging group of thugs. On the other, they're terrified of the idea that we may actually leave their country. Something's not adding up.

25 posted on 12/13/2003 9:19:30 AM PST by Steel Wolf (There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot.)
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To: americanbychoice
The Euroweenies are going to be hit with a double whammy. Part I: They will have to spend a larger part of their own budget for self defense. Part II: The United States is not going to let them earn money from construction projects in Iraq, and that won't be good for the EURO! So take THAT "Sorry Ass" Soros! Go ahead and speculate on the EURO against the dollar, GO AHEAD and make President Bush's day!
26 posted on 12/13/2003 9:27:59 AM PST by Enterprise
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To: yankeedame
My analogy would be more on the lines about not uh, "soiling" your mess kit.
27 posted on 12/13/2003 9:30:43 AM PST by Enterprise
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To: americanbychoice
Any number of nations would welcome our troops...next door in the Czech Republic or Poland would do fine.

This may be a wake up call for Germans to get their act totgether. Joschka Fischer (Baader Meinhof defense attorney) and his crony Schroeder need to go!

28 posted on 12/13/2003 9:30:58 AM PST by eleni121
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
I vote for new American bases in Poland.

Me too!
29 posted on 12/13/2003 9:33:03 AM PST by demkicker
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To: americanbychoice
About time.
30 posted on 12/13/2003 9:34:24 AM PST by dts32041 (No politician who would put me in jail for criticizing them will ever get my vote. Ever.)
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To: meenie
Two problems. Allies are getting pretty scarce unless we can buy their support. The defense of Europe was part of our strategy of keeping a wary eye on the Germans and preventing a resurgence of their militarism.

1. Allies in Europe include Britian, Spain, Poland, and Italy, with Russia leaning our direction because of a common enemy. Opposition is led primarily by France, Germany and Belgium.

2. Why should we care if Germany did decide to liberate territory occupied by France?

31 posted on 12/13/2003 9:50:29 AM PST by PAR35
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To: riri
The Krouts will kill 2 birds with one stone and just let the Jihadists take over our former bases as terror academies.
32 posted on 12/13/2003 9:50:59 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: meenie
German militarism is dead. The Germans have lost their pride and their spines because they rely on their socialist government from the cradle to the grave.

They aren't going to be buying panzers and upgrading their luftwaffe with the massive social spending necessary to keep their society in line.
33 posted on 12/13/2003 10:00:28 AM PST by montomike (montomike)
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To: Steel Wolf
Excellent move. Its time we shifted our weight further South and East.

Does anybody know how many soldiers this will free up? Many from Germany were already moved to Iraq.

34 posted on 12/13/2003 10:02:04 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: MizSterious; rebdov; Nix 2; green lantern; BeOSUser; Brad's Gramma; dreadme; Turk2; keri; ...
Europe-list

If people want on or off this list, please let me know.

35 posted on 12/13/2003 10:02:31 AM PST by knighthawk (And for the name of peace, we will prevail)
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To: americanbychoice
Goodbye and good riddance. What a waste of our personnel. Let's go help some nations that are not ingrates.
36 posted on 12/13/2003 10:03:49 AM PST by Beck_isright (This tag line edited by the 9th Circuit Court due to offensive political commentary)
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To: americanbychoice
Did they give a time frame on this?
37 posted on 12/13/2003 10:04:23 AM PST by armymarinemom (My Son Liberated the Honor Roll Students in Iraq)
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To: meenie
Allies are getting pretty scarce unless we can buy their support.

It's our enemies who are usually bought and paid for.

38 posted on 12/13/2003 10:05:24 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: demkicker
Only problem I see is the cost of troop infrastructure. Whole installations built to American standards from the road surfaces and up then the costs of of the logistics. It will be staggering.

OTOH the quarters in Europe are in much better condition than in CONUS.

39 posted on 12/13/2003 10:06:04 AM PST by FRMAG
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To: eleni121
I recall a few weeks back that we were in negotiaton with Bulgaria over establishing bases there.
40 posted on 12/13/2003 10:08:13 AM PST by Rebelbase
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To: americanbychoice
It is about time. We should put the closure of US bases on hold, bring 99% of our ground forces (and their dependents) home and shift some of our Air Force elements and bases currently in Germany to countries such as Poland and Hungary. In Hungary, for example, we've already funded significant improvements to an air base in Taszar.
41 posted on 12/13/2003 10:08:22 AM PST by caltrop
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To: meenie
"The defense of Europe was part of our strategy of keeping a wary eye on the Germans and preventing a resurgence of their militarism."

If you haven't noticed they are 0-2 in the last century. What a joke.
42 posted on 12/13/2003 10:09:24 AM PST by Beck_isright (This tag line edited by the 9th Circuit Court due to offensive political commentary)
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To: americanbychoice
bttt
43 posted on 12/13/2003 10:09:43 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: FreeReign
Most of our units based in Europe are already either in or rotating out of Iraq or Afghanistan. I don't think our departure gains us any US boots on the ground. As I recall, we've something like 75,000 GIs in Europe, most in Germany. The cost of maintaining them and their families is gigantic.
44 posted on 12/13/2003 10:11:26 AM PST by caltrop
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To: americanbychoice
I much agree.

Though it will probably hasten their hostility against us.

They are evidently slated to rush to GGT sooner.
45 posted on 12/13/2003 10:12:55 AM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: meenie
Allies are getting pretty scarce unless we can buy their support.

You got that right. We have to pay big taxpayer dollars to buy "friends" today. Spain and Poland are basically whore governments who sell themselves to the highest bidder. Stop paying them and they go looking for someone who will. France, Germany and Russia are just going to sit there and watch us self-destruct in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Richard W.

46 posted on 12/13/2003 10:15:41 AM PST by arete (Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.)
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To: meenie
we have allies. Poland, Spain, Italy to name but a few. And the list is growing.

Don't believe or let yourself be swayed by the emphasis placed on the importance of having a France, Germany or Russia on our side. That these nations currently have a stronger potential by virtue of their economies or traditional strength isn't the issue - the meat of the matter at hand is that this War on Terror is a war of wills first and foremost.

Think of it this way - we're still in the trees (of the current conflict) and have not yet had sufficient time/distance to put us more into a "forest" perspective. To continue this metaphor, we see trees that previously were thought to be healthy (ie: our relationships with FRG) that now aren't; but other trees we're not used to observing (Eastern & Mediterranean Europe) grow healthy and strong.

Metaphors or other figures of speech ultimately only have value, though, in the "soundbite" impact (and ease of ingestion in our Instant-MacDonalds multi-tasked attention span world); so here's my own soundbite:

This is War.
America has been awakened.
America fights this war humanely.
America's leader, President Bush, appeals to (what little glimmer remains of...) decency among old-europe nations to do the right thing.

But no matter what... America will defeat our enemies and if need be, utterly destroy them.

(I know, not much of a soundbite, but I've never been one for coalescing complex life-or-death issues into a smarmy, 15-word-or-less statement that's universally understood and accepted)

CGVet58
47 posted on 12/13/2003 10:17:11 AM PST by CGVet58 (For my fellow Americans; my life... for our enemies; The Sword!!!)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
I vote for new American bases in Poland.

Hear, hear! Hungary is nice too... they love Americans and it's dirt cheap. Lake Balaton, anyone?

48 posted on 12/13/2003 10:18:31 AM PST by Terabitten (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of All Who Threaten It)
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To: meenie
Allies are getting pretty scarce unless we can buy their support.

Allies? Germany and France? Where did you ever get that idea?
49 posted on 12/13/2003 10:19:40 AM PST by aruanan
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To: FRMAG
Only problem I see is the cost of troop infrastructure. Whole installations built to American standards from the road surfaces and up then the costs of of the logistics. It will be staggering.

From what I've read the new bases won't be for long term deployments to include family members like in Germany. That means no dependent schools and family housing. That will make it much easier to base these soldiers. Boy, I wish I wasn't so close to retirement, I'd love to do a short tour in Poland, or the Czech Republic. The girls there are much cuter than Bavarians.
50 posted on 12/13/2003 10:30:15 AM PST by Tailback
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