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Iranian Alert -- December 14, 2003 -- IRAN LIVE THREAD
The Iranian Student Movement Up To The Minute Reports ^ | 12.14.2003 | DoctorZin

Posted on 12/13/2003 11:54:17 PM PST by DoctorZIn

The US media almost entirely ignores news regarding the Islamic Republic of Iran. As Tony Snow of the Fox News Network has put it, “this is probably the most under-reported news story of the year.” But most American’s are unaware that the Islamic Republic of Iran is NOT supported by the masses of Iranians today. Modern Iranians are among the most pro-American in the Middle East.

There is a popular revolt against the Iranian regime brewing in Iran today. Starting June 10th of this year, Iranians have begun taking to the streets to express their desire for a regime change. Most want to replace the regime with a secular democracy. Many even want the US to over throw their government.

The regime is working hard to keep the news about the protest movement in Iran from being reported. Unfortunately, the regime has successfully prohibited western news reporters from covering the demonstrations. The voices of discontent within Iran are sometime murdered, more often imprisoned. Still the people continue to take to the streets to demonstrate against the regime.

In support of this revolt, Iranians in America have been broadcasting news stories by satellite into Iran. This 21st century news link has greatly encouraged these protests. The regime has been attempting to jam the signals, and locate the satellite dishes. Still the people violate the law and listen to these broadcasts. Iranians also use the Internet and the regime attempts to block their access to news against the regime. In spite of this, many Iranians inside of Iran read these posts daily to keep informed of the events in their own country.

This daily thread contains nearly all of the English news reports on Iran. It is thorough. If you follow this thread you will witness, I believe, the transformation of a nation. This daily thread provides a central place where those interested in the events in Iran can find the best news and commentary. The news stories and commentary will from time to time include material from the regime itself. But if you read the post you will discover for yourself, the real story of what is occurring in Iran and its effects on the war on terror.

I am not of Iranian heritage. I am an American committed to supporting the efforts of those in Iran seeking to replace their government with a secular democracy. I am in contact with leaders of the Iranian community here in the United States and in Iran itself.

If you read the daily posts you will gain a better understanding of the US war on terrorism, the Middle East and why we need to support a change of regime in Iran. Feel free to ask your questions and post news stories you discover in the weeks to come.

If all goes well Iran will be free soon and I am convinced become a major ally in the war on terrorism. The regime will fall. Iran will be free. It is just a matter of time.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: iaea; iran; iranianalert; protests; southasia; studentmovement; studentprotest
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Join Us At Today's Iranian Alert Thread – The Most Underreported Story Of The Year!

"If you want on or off this Iran ping list, Freepmail DoctorZin”

1 posted on 12/13/2003 11:54:18 PM PST by DoctorZIn
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To: Pan_Yans Wife; fat city; freedom44; Tamsey; Grampa Dave; PhiKapMom; McGavin999; Hinoki Cypress; ...
Join Us At Today's Iranian Alert Thread – The Most Underreported Story Of The Year!

"If you want on or off this Iran ping list, Freepmail DoctorZin”

2 posted on 12/13/2003 11:58:08 PM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
"Iran ready to extradite some of 130 al-Qaeda"

December 11, 2003
IranMania News

GENEVA, Dec 11, (AFP) -- Iran has arrested 130 suspected members of the al-Qaeda network and is ready to extradite some of them, President Mohammad Khatami said.

"Those who have committed crimes in Iran will be judged in Iran and the others will be extradited to their country of origin," he said through an interpreter during a news conference here.

"There is no place for al-Qaeda, no place for any terrorist, for those who act against peace in the world," he added.

Khatami said al-Qaeda was "very hostile" to the Iranian regime.

The United States has asked Tehran several times to extradite members of the terror group on its territory, most recently on Monday.

"We believe Iran should turn over all suspected al-Qaeda operatives to the United States or to countries of origin or third countries for further interrogation and trial," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said in Washington.

The US stressed that it was not discussing a swap of Iranian opposition People's Mujahadin members held by US forces in Iraq in return for al-Qaeda operatives held in Iran.

Khatami said Iran was ready to welcome opposition fighters who "are in Iraq and regret" past acts.

"We will welcome them and judge them according to the law," he said.

Reports over the weekend said Jordan's King Abdullah II was quietly trying to broker a deal between the United States and Iran on the prisoners.

Khatami also insisted that his country would not make nuclear weapons, and he told Muslims they should embrace western democracy.

Launching an urgent appeal for dialogue between Islam and Christianity, Khatami told an audience at the World Council of Churches (WCC) that Iran's dominant Islamic faith ruled out the use of nuclear weapons.

"We cannot seek nuclear weapons because of our religious faith, I told our religious leaders," he said, speaking through an interpreter.

"The Islam that I know does not allow the use of nuclear weapons, then we cannot go ahead and manufacture them," the Iranian president added in response to questions.

Khatami's comments came a day after Iran said it had given the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) the formal go-ahead to carry out more intrusive inspections of its suspect nuclear programme.

The United States has voiced concern that the Islamic republic is using a civil atomic energy programme as a cover for secret nuclear weapons development.

During his address to a seminar on religious tolerance organised by the WCC, which groups the world's Christian and Orthodox faiths with the exception of the Roman Catholic Church, Khatami also gave an unusually frank endorsement of western democracy.

"I think democracy is the only alternative, we can take it as Muslims," he said.

"We must accept this has been materialised in the West, we must accept this as Muslims," Khatami, an Islamic scholar added, warning that the alternative was authoritarian and despotic rule.

Iran had problems, the president admitted, "we have violations of human rights, we know these are going on", although he claimed the country had the most democratic system in the region.

Khatami's principal speech focused on a plea for religious tolerance, warning that the shared values of faith and religion had been eroded worldwide by bigotry as well as by anti-religious sentiment.

"The dialogue between civilisations, but also the dialogue between religions, in particular between Islam and Christianity are a vital, imperative and unavoidable necessity."

"I have to add in this respect that unfortunately those with power in this world, instead of reducing and removing the misunderstandings, are contributing to their revival," he added.

Iran's president also responded to a question about the impact of the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States, pointing out that the 20th century had been marked by unprecedented wars and violence, including the "ugly face of terrorism".

"It showed its ugliest face in the cities of New York and Washington in September 2001," he added.

The Iranian leader, seen as a reformist figure in the Islamic state, was in Geneva primarily to attend a UN conference on the impact and development of information technology.

The digital boom had increased the ability to communicate, but was not able to overcome a gulf in understanding, he cautioned.

"We must note that in our global village, we are unable to understand each other," Khatami observed.
3 posted on 12/14/2003 1:46:24 AM PST by F14 Pilot (Conspiracy Theory... For whom the bell tolls ?)
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To: DoctorZIn
Saddam is Captured...!?
4 posted on 12/14/2003 2:42:57 AM PST by F14 Pilot (Conspiracy Theory... For whom the bell tolls ?)
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To: DoctorZIn; McGavin999; freedom44; nuconvert; Eala; AdmSmith; dixiechick2000; onyx; Pro-Bush; ...
Saddam possibly caught - U.S.

December 14, 2003- Posted: 5:35 AM EST
CNN News

CNN) -- Former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has possibly been captured in a raid near his hometown of Tikrit, U.S. officials say.

However, the officials told CNN on Sunday that the identity of the individual, who was one of a number of suspected insurgents caught, was still being confirmed.

A coalition news conference in Baghdad, scheduled for 1200 GMT (7 a.m. ET), is expected to shed more light on whether the Iraqi leader was captured.

The raid was based on intelligence that Saddam was at a particular location in the area, the officials said.

The former Iraqi leader is number one on the coalition's 55 most wanted list, and his evasion has been a political sore spot for the U.S. administration.

At least a dozen audiotapes believed to have been recorded by Saddam, 66, have been released since he was forced out of power by the coalition forces during the Iraq war. The most recent was broadcast in November.

His sons Uday and Qusay -- also on the coalition's most wanted list -- were killed in July, after U.S. forces stormed their hideout in Mosul.

Initial hopes that their father would soon be found faded in the months following that raid.

Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the commander of U.S. ground forces in Iraq, has been dogged by reporters questioning the status of the search for Saddam.

"It is difficult to find him," Sanchez said, at a press briefing earlier this month. "Given that I haven't found him killed him or captured him, and I need the Iraqi people's help, and together we will find him, we will capture him, we will kill him."

The announcement comes on the same day that 20 people were killed and 32 wounded by a car bomb outside an Iraqi police station west of Baghdad, an Iraqi police officer told CNN.

Sixteen policemen were among those killed in Sunday's explosion at Khaldiyah, 80 kilometers (50 miles) from the Iraqi capital, the officer added.
5 posted on 12/14/2003 2:48:03 AM PST by F14 Pilot (Conspiracy Theory... For whom the bell tolls ?)
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To: DoctorZIn
6 posted on 12/14/2003 4:55:32 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: DoctorZIn

7 posted on 12/14/2003 5:16:49 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: DoctorZIn
Will the Saddam capture effect events in Iran?
8 posted on 12/14/2003 5:18:56 AM PST by HoustonCurmudgeon (PEACE - Through Superior Firepower)
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To: HoustonCurmudgeon
I think Yes, Bush will have ebough time to work on Iran.
We will hear about Bin ladan's son soon.
9 posted on 12/14/2003 5:33:23 AM PST by F14 Pilot
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To: HoustonCurmudgeon
One less thing to focus on, makes focusing on Iran easier.
10 posted on 12/14/2003 6:51:47 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: DoctorZIn

11 posted on 12/14/2003 6:54:01 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: DoctorZIn
12 posted on 12/14/2003 6:57:27 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: DoctorZIn
U.S. forces capture Saddam Hussein at remote farmhouse near Tikrit, Iraq [DoD]
DoD ^ | Dec. 14, 2003

Posted on 12/14/2003 6:43:44 AM PST by Ragtime Cowgirl

Troops from the 4th Infantry Division's 1st Brigade Combat Team captured former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein without incident Dec. 13. Saddam was found hiding in a storehouse at a remote farmhouse near Tikrit, Iraq.

U.S. forces capture Saddam Hussein at remote farmhouse near Tikrit, Iraq

WASHINGTON, Dec. 14, 2003 -- “We got him.” U.S. Ambassador L. Paul Bremer II announced in Baghdad, Iraq, at about 7 a.m. this morning. “Saddam Hussein was captured Saturday, Dec. 13, at about 8:30 p.m. local time, in a cellar in the town of Adwar, which is about 15 kilometers south of Tikrit.”

“This is a great day in Iraq’s history,’ Bremer said to the Iraqi people. “For decades, hundreds of thousands of you suffered at the hands of this cruel man. For decades Saddam Hussein divided you citizens against each other. For decades he threatened and attacked your neighbors. Those days are over forever.

“Now it is time to look to the future – to your future of hope, to a future of reconciliation. Iraq’s future, your future, has never been more full of hope.
"The tyrant is a prisoner. The economy is moving forward. You have before the prospect of a sovereign government in a few months.

“With the arrest of Saddam Hussein, there is a new opportunity for the members of the former regime, whether military or civilian to end their bitter opposition. Let them now come forward in a spirit of reconciliation and hope, lay down their arms and join you, their fellow citizens, in the task of building the new Iraq.

“Now is the time for all Iraqis, Arabs and Kurds, Sunnis and Shia, Christian and Turkimen, to build a prosperous, democratic Iraq at peace with itself and with its neighbors.”

Related American Forces Press Article:
Sanchez credits Iraqi cooperation with making precise coalition strikes possible
13 posted on 12/14/2003 7:06:08 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: DoctorZIn
Saddam captured alive by US forces in hometown BAGHDAD, Dec 14, (AFP) - Ousted Iraqi president Saddam Hussein has been captured in a raid by US forces backed by Kurdish fighters in his northern hometown of Tikrit, various Iraqi officials reported. Britain's Press Association reported that Prime Minister Tony Blair confirmed the arrest of Saddam. There was no official US confirmation of the reports but they were carried extensively by US media and celebratory gunfire echoed across Baghdad. Kurdish officials were the first to report that the elusive Saddam had been captured in Tikrit, eight months after he was chased from power by US-led forces. Other Iraqi officials later echoed the report. The head of Iraq US-installed interim Governing Council Abdel Aziz al-Hakim confirmed the arrest during a visit to Madrid. Another Governing Council member, Nassir Chaderchi, told the BBC radio's Arabic service that US overseer Paul Bremer had confirmed the capture of Saddam. But a Pentagon spokeswoman in Washington would not comment. "Bremer called us to confirm it (Saddam's capture) and we are all celebrating here," Chaderchi told the radio, adding that a news conference would be held soon in Baghdad. Although US forces had succeeded in capturing many of the most-wanted officials from Saddam's regime, and in killing his two sons, Saddam had remained at large and become a symbol for a persistent anti-US resistance. A senior official from the Kurdish PUK said in the northern town of Suleimaniya that the arrest of Saddam was a joint operation. "Kurdish special forces of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) led by Qusrat Rassul Ali along with American special forces after receiving information that Saddam was hiding in a house in Tikrit carried out an operation and arrested Saddam Hussein," he said. The reports that Saddam could have been captured came as a deadly bomb attack underlined the instability that has prevailed in the war-shattered country since he was overthrown. Eighteen people were killed, including 16 policemen and a seven-year-old girl, and 29 wounded Sunday at a police station in the heart of the rebel region of western Iraq. The US military said it was a car bomb, but residents insisted it was a rocket attack. Sixteen policemen and two civilians, including the girl, were killed in the blast, said a police lieutenant at Ramadi general hospital where the casualties were taken. Hospital director Qusay Abdullah said the hospital had so far received 16 bodies including that of the girl. Among 29 wounded, five were in a serious condition, he added. The casualties were rushed from Khaldiyah police station to Ramadi, 20 kilometres (12 miles) to the west and 100 kilometres (60 miles) from Baghdad. "An explosion went off near the gate of the station," police lieutenant Faiz Mohammad Motab told AFP. "It killed 17 and wounded 30 policemen, including senior officers and the ranks," he said. "There's a big hole outside the gate about three or four metres (yards) across and more than two metres deep, and the outside wall was knocked down. Hamid Adel al-Dulaimi, who lives opposite the station, said his mother lost an arm in the blast and insisted it was a rocket. "Look at the debris from the rocket," added Hamid Mekhlef, 22. Residents were hostile to foreigners both at the blast site and the hospital where one warned an AFP correspondent to leave, charging the truth of the rocket attack would never be told. The blast left a charred wreck of a car and destroyed two other cars, AFP corresponents at the scene said. US armoured vehicles and more than 100 troops blocked off the area and two tanks parked on the main road while two helicopters hovered overhead. "There were no coalition casualties," the military spokesman said, adding that a US military quick reaction force had been sent to the town situated between the rebel cities of Ramadi and Fallujah where ousted president Saddam Hussein still commands loyalty. On September 15, the police chief of Khaldiyah, Colonel Khdayyir Ali Mukhlif, was killed when three assailants opened fire at his car. The blast came a day after the US military commander in Iraq, Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez said attacks on coalition soldiers had fallen to around 20 per day.
14 posted on 12/14/2003 7:19:35 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: nuconvert
Great news!
15 posted on 12/14/2003 7:27:15 AM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
World Leaders Thrilled at Saddam's Capture

Sunday, December 14, 2003

LONDON — World leaders including the Iraq war's most prominent opponents welcomed Saddam Hussein's capture, saying it brought a long-awaited end to the career of a brutal dictator and could mark the beginning of peace in Iraq.

The U.S. military announced that a bearded Saddam was detained without resistance in a hole on a farm near his hometown of Tikrit (search), ending one of the most intense manhunts in history.

"Where his rule meant terror and division and brutality, let his capture bring about unity, reconciliation and peace," Prime Minister Tony Blair (search) said. "Saddam is gone from power. He won't be coming back, that the Iraqi people now know and it is they who will decide his fate."

Blair braved intense domestic opposition to support the U.S.-led war that ousted Saddam in April.

Iraq's interim government has established a special tribunal to try Saddam and other members of his regime for genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity.

The United States still hasn't decided what to do with Saddam, though Blair said Saddam could be "tried in Iraqi courts for his crimes against the Iraqi people." Ahmad Chalabi (search), a member of Iraq's Governing Council, said Saddam would be tried.

In Yemen, Mohammed Abdel Qader Mohammadi, 50, said he was surprised Saddam didn't fight his capture. "I expected him to resist or commit suicide before falling into American hands. He disappointed a lot of us, he's a coward."

The government of Jordan said Sunday it hoped that Saddam's capture would contribute to the dawning of a new era and help the Iraqi people restore law and order in their in their war-ravaged country.

"What the Jordanian government cares about is the safety and security of the Iraqi people and the restoration of political stability in that brotherly Arab nation," Asma Khader, a state minister and the government spokeswoman, told The Associated Press.

In downtown Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Ibrahim al-Khodir, 37, said Saddam should be put to death.

"This should have happened a long time ago," al-Khodir said. "Such a ruthless dictator and criminal should get the death penalty and he should be executed in front of the Iraqi people."

Iraq's war crimes tribunal would cover crimes committed from July 17, 1968 — the day Saddam's Baath Party came to power — until May 1, 2003 — the day President Bush declared major hostilities over. Saddam became president in 1979 but wielded vast influence starting from the early 1970s.

The Spanish government, another supporter of the war, also hailed the news.

"The time has come for him to pay for his crimes," said Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, an outspoken supporter of the war to oust Saddam, despite widespread opposition at home.

"He is responsible for the killing of millions of people over the last 30 years. He is a threat to his people and to the entire world," Aznar said.

France, which has had a rocky relationship with the United States since it led the opposition to the war, said the capture would help stabilize the country and lead to its sovereignty.

"It's a major event that should strongly contribute to democracy and stability in Iraq and allow the Iraqis to master their destiny," French President Jacques Chirac said in a statement.

U.N. spokesman Farhan Haq said he hoped Saddam's capture would help restore stability.

The United Nations withdrew its international staff in Iraq after the Aug. 19 bombing of the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad, which killed 22 people.

"We are hoping for any events on the ground in Iraq to help stabilize the situation there and to ensure and help with its long-term security," Haq said.

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, another foe of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, congratulated President Bush.

"With much happiness I learned about the arrest of Saddam Hussein," Schroeder wrote in a letter to Bush released by the German government. "I congratulate you on this successful action."

Japan, Australia and other countries also were quick to applaud the news of Saddam's capture, as a video showing a bearded Saddam being examined by a doctor was broadcast on news channels.

News of Saddam's capture reverberated among the 500 delegates and other dignitaries at the opening session of Afghanistan's historic constitutional council, being held in Kabul.

Afghan Interior Minister Ali Ahmad Jalali said the arrest would help improve security in Afghanistan by dampening the ability of militant groups to recruit fighters here.

"What happens in Iraq is also something to do with the situation in Afghanistan. Since the war in Iraq, the terrorist organizations have tried to open a new front in Afghanistan, so any failure of terrorism in Iraq is going to effect the situation in Afghanistan," Jalali told The Associated Press.

Others, like Poland and South Korea, urged caution, warning the arrest could spark retaliation from Saddam's supporters.

In San Diego, Alan Zangana, a 48-year-old Kurd who fled Iraq in 1981, said the phone at his Chula Vista home started ringing early Sunday with people sharing the reports that Saddam had been captured.

"I have been waiting for this for the last 35 years," said Zangana, director of Kurdish Human Rights Watch in the San Diego suburb of El Cajon.

Saddam instituted a policy of genocide against the Kurds and Zangana said oppression in his oil-rich hometown of Kirkuk was severe.

"Nobody is going to be happy today like the Kurds," Zangana said. "He killed a lot of us.",3566,105709,00.html
16 posted on 12/14/2003 7:32:38 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: DoctorZIn
Arab Americans in Southeastern Mich. Celebrate Saddam's Capture
ap ^ | 12-14-03

Posted on 12/14/2003 7:32:33 AM PST by Dan from Michigan

The Associated Press
12/14/2003, 9:42 a.m. ET

DEARBORN, Mich. (AP) — Alaa Alkhafaji dashed out from behind the counter and turned up the sound on the television.

A reporter on Al Jazeera then confirmed what Alkhafaji was just told: Saddam Hussein had been captured in Iraq.

Alkhafaji, his eyes still wide with amazement, began dialing the telephone at the Alzawraa Cafe in Dearborn. He wanted to break the news to everybody he knew.

Elsewhere in this heavily Arab Detroit suburb, residents took to the streets in celebration as they did eight months earlier when a statue of Saddam was toppled in Baghdad.

As snow fell around them Sunday morning, dozens jumped around, banged drums and waved Iraqi and American flags.

In Dearborn, a city of about 100,000, one-third identify themselves as Arab or Arab-American. Southeastern Michigan has about 300,000 Arab-Americans.
17 posted on 12/14/2003 7:40:14 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: Pan_Yans Wife; fat city; freedom44; Tamsey; Grampa Dave; PhiKapMom; McGavin999; Hinoki Cypress; ...
Without Firing a Shot, U.S. Forces Detain Ex-Iraqi Leader

Published: December 14, 2003

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Dec. 14 - Saddam Hussein, the deposed Iraqi leader, was captured in a raid on a farm house near Tikrit on Saturday night, American military officials confirmed today.

``We got him,'' American administrator L. Paul Bremer III said at a news conference here. Officials said they used DNA tests to confirm Mr. Hussein's identity.

Coalition troops discovered Mr. Hussein hiding in a hole below the farm house, located in the town of Adwar, 10 miles from Tikrit.

Military authorities said that Mr. Hussein had put up no resistance and that not one shot had been fired in the operation.

Finding Mr. Hussein solved one of the great mysteries that tormented the American-led occupation force in Iraq: whether he was still alive and, if so, where he was hiding.

Some senior Bush administration officials have suspected that Mr. Hussein was still alive and inspiring, if not leading, the guerrilla-style insurgency that has left more than 190 American soldiers dead since President Bush declared an end to major combat operations on May. 1.

Since April, when coalition forces pushed into Baghdad and declared the start of the occupation, American-led troops have tried to wipe away all vestiges of the old government in part by capturing or killing many of Mr. Hussein's former advisers and associates.

But their biggest target, Mr. Hussein himself, continued to evade coalition forces even as he broadcast audio messages intended to rally his loyalists while, seemingly, taunt the occupiers.

Mr. Bremer appealed to insurgents loyal to Mr. Hussein to give up the fight today. ``With the arrest of Saddam Hussein, there is a new opportunity for the members of the former regime, whether military or civilian, to end their bitter opposition,'' he said in a televised news conference in Baghdad. ``Let them now come forward in a spirit of reconciliation and hope, lay down their arms, and join you, their fellow citizens, in the task of building the new Iraq.''

British Prime Minister Tony Blair welcomed Mr. Hussein's capture as an opportunity for national reconciliation in Iraq.

``Where his rule meant terror and division and brutality, let his capture bring about unity, reconciliation and peace between all the people in Iraq,'' Mr. Blair said. ``Saddam is gone from power. He won't be coming back. That the Iraqi people now know.'' He called the cause of Mr. Hussein's supporters ``futile.''

The White House said that President Bush will make a public statement at noon Eastern time.

At the news conference today announcing Mr. Hussein's capture, American officials aired a video showing Mr. Hussein, with a scruffy white beard and wild, curly hair, being examined by a doctor.

Mr. Hussein was in a six-to-eight-foot-deep ``spider hole'' that had been camouflaged with bricks and dirt, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez said at the news conference.

``The captive has been talkative and is being cooperative,'' General Sanchez said. Coalition troops captured two other Iraqis in the raid and seized two AK-47 assault rifles, a pistol and $750,000 in $100 bills, General Sanchez said.

He described Mr. Hussein's demeanor during the arrest, saying he seemed ``a tired man - also, I think, a man resigned.''

Officials said Mr. Hussein was being held at an undisclosed location and that American authorities had yet to decide whether to hand him over to the Iraqis for trial. Iraqi officials want him to stand trial before a war crimes tribunal created last week.

Mr. Blair said that ultimately, the Iraqis will determine how Mr. Hussein will be tried. ``It is they who will decide his fate.''

As news of the capture spread, celebratory gunfire broke out all over Baghdad, and large crowds poured into the streets, especially along commercial strips like those in the Karada neighborhood. People were speaking ecstatically of the capture, hugging and shaking one another's hands.

Earlier in the day, rumors of the capture sent people streaming into the streets of Kirkuk, a northern Iraqi city, firing guns in the air in celebration, The Associated Press reported.

``We are celebrating like it's a wedding,'' a resident, Mustapha Sheriff, told the news agency. ``We are finally rid of that criminal.''

Another resident, Ali Al-Bashiri, said: ``This is the joy of a lifetime. I am speaking on behalf of all the people that suffered under his rule.''

But in Ramadi, a town west of Baghdad that has served as a loyal support base for Mr. Hussein, people had not heard about the capture by early afternoon. A feeling of anger was building up against the American occupiers, triggered by a car bomb this morning outside the police station in the nearby town of Khalidiya.

The bomb went off at 8:30 a.m. this morning, killing at least 21 people, mostly police officers, and wounding at least 33, according to military and hospital officials. Men standing at the scene and at the hospital blamed American forces for the blast, even though it was clear that the bomb was targeting Iraqi police working with the Americans.

Administration officials have said that Mr. Hussein's survival, despite the American hunt and a $25 million reward for information leading to his capture or proof of his death, appears to have been a motivating factor in the armed opposition against American forces.

The whereabouts of Mr. Hussein had been a mystery since at least March 20, when the United States initiated the war in Iraq with a strike by cruise missiles and bombs on an installation in Baghdad where the top Iraqi leadership was believed to be hiding.

On April 7, three days after Iraqi television broadcast two videotapes of Mr. Hussein taped on an unknown date, the United States made a second attempt to kill Mr. Hussein by bombing a building in the Mansour district of Baghdad, where intelligence sources said the Iraqi leadership had gathered.

Those two strikes prompted some optimism at the White House that Mr. Hussein and his two oldest sons had been killed. But with the failure of investigators to find physical evidence of Mr. Hussein at the two sites, combined with testimony of senior Iraqi officials in American custody who said the Iraqi leader had not been at those locations, American intelligence agencies concluded that they probably missed their target.

This view was further strengthened by the broadcast in the past several weeks of at least four audiotapes with a voice purporting to be that of Mr. Hussein. One of them may have inadvertently dampened the skepticism about his sons' deaths by calling on Iraqis to mourn them.

American officials said the most compelling indications that Mr. Hussein was still alive were the intercepted communications among fugitive members of the paramilitary Saddam Fedayeen and the Iraqi intelligence service discussing the importance of protecting his life.

American officials had hoped they were getting closer to determining the whereabouts of Mr. Hussein when troops killed his sons, Qusay and Uday, on July 22 in a four-hour gunbattle with American troops in a hideout in the northern city of Mosul. But an initial burst of confidence gradually faded away and, as the bloody weeks dragged on, and American troops were unable to find either Mr. Hussein or conclusive proof that he had been developing weapons of mass destruction, the White House and the Pentagon tried to shift attention from those failures by arguing that the most important thing was that Mr. Hussein had been removed from power.

Still, even the American administrator in Iraq, L. Paul Bremer III, acknowledged several months ago that the coalition's inability to capture him or recover his body was helping to fuel the resistance movement.

``I would obviously prefer that we had clear evidence that Saddam is dead or that we had him alive in our custody,'' Mr. Bremer said. ``It does make a difference because it allows the Baathists to go around in the bazaars and in the villages, as they are doing, saying: `Saddam is alive, and he's going to come back. And we're going to come back.'''

Edward Wong provided reporting from Baghdad and Kirk Semple provided reporting from New York for this article.
18 posted on 12/14/2003 7:40:51 AM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Saddam Captured Newsconference occuring NOW [Live Thread]

CNN ^ | 12-14-03 | CNN
Posted on 12/14/2003 3:19:27 AM PST by bonesmccoy

CNN anchor now reports news conference due at 4 AM PST/7AM EST
19 posted on 12/14/2003 7:47:43 AM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Will Chirac Fight Facism?

December 14, 2003
New York Post
Amir Taheri

Anyone following the French media these days might get the impression that we are heading for "a war of values" and a "clash of civilizations" over what is known as "le foulard islamique."

The controversial foulard is a special headgear, inspired by the hood worn by Capuchin monks, and designed to cover a woman's head, leaving only her face exposed.

The issue has divided French society across religious and cultural fault-lines that few would have acknowledged a decade ago: Should the government forbid girls from wearing the foulard at state schools?

A special committee, set up by President Jacques Chirac last summer, has just submitted its report on the subject, suggesting that the foulard be banned from public schools along with other "ostensible signs of religion" such as Jewish skullcaps and large crosses. The president is scheduled to unveil his conclusions in a televised address this week.

Some secularists insist that the foulard should be banned from schools, hospitals and other public institutions by a special law because it represents "an ostentatious religious sign" in spaces that should remain neutral as far as religion is concerned. Others believe that an outright ban could be seen as an attack on individual beliefs, and force girls who wish to wear the foulard to switch to private Koranic schools.

All this may well be a result of a misunderstanding. To start with, the term "foulard islamique" is inaccurate because it assumes that the controversial headscarf is an article of Islamic faith, which it emphatically is not. It is a political symbol shared by several radical movements that, each in its own way, tries to transform Islam from a religion into a political ideology.

One could describe these movements as Islamist, but not Islamic. A new word has been coined in Arabic to describe them: Mutuasslim. Its equivalent in Persian is Islamgara.

The foulard should be seen as a political symbol in the same way as Nazi casquettes, Mao Zedong caps and Che Guevara berets were in their times. It has never been sanctioned by any Islamic religious authority and is worn by a tiny minority of Muslim women.

It was first created in Lebanon in 1975 by Imam Mussa Sadr, an Iranian mullah who had become leader of the Shi'ite community there. Sadr wanted the foulard to mark out Shi'ite girls so that they would not be molested by the Palestinians who controlled southern Lebanon at the time.

In 1982, the Lebanese-designed headgear was imposed by law on all Iranian girls and women, including non-Muslims, aged six years and above. Thus, Iranian Christian, Jewish and Zoroastrian women are also forced to wear a headgear that is supposed to be an Islamic symbol. The Khomeinist claim is that women's hair has to be covered because it emits rays that turn men "wild with sex."

From the mid 1980s, the foulard appeared in North Africa and Egypt before moving east to the Persian Gulf, the Indo-Pakistani Subcontinent and Southeast Asia. It made its first appearance in France in 1984, brought in by Iranian Mujahedin asylum seekers. Today, thousands of women, especially new converts, wear it in Europe and North America.

That the foulard did not exist before 1975 is easy to verify. Muslim women could refer to their family albums to see that none of their female parents and ancestors ever wore it.

Megawati Sukarnoputri, President of Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim nation, does not wear it. Nor does Khalidah Zia, prime minister of Bangladesh, the world's second most populous country. Shirin Ebadi, the first Muslim woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize, does not wear it, except inside Iran - where she would go to jail if she did not.

That the foulard is a political invention can be ascertained in two other ways. First, there is the Iranian law of 1982 that specifies the shape, size and even the "authorized" colors of the headscarf.

Second, the various Islamist movements have developed specific color schemes to assert their identity. The Khomeinists wear dark blue or brown. The Sunni Salafis, who sympathize with al Qaeda and the Taliban, prefer black. Supporters of Abu-Sayyaf and other Southeast Asian radical groups wear white or yellow. Supporters of Palestinian radical groups don checkered foulards.

Islamism is a totalitarian ideology like Communism and Fascism. And like them it loves uniforms. While it forces, or brainwashes, women into wearing the foulard, it also presses men to grow beards as an advertisement of piety.

Like people of other faiths and cultures, Muslim men and women often covered their heads. But the headgear used had no political significance and reflected local cultural, tribal and folkloric traditions. No one ever claimed that donning any particular headgear, whether for men or women, was a religious duty.

In any case Islam, with its rich tradition of iconoclasm, is not a religion of symbols. It also abhors any advertisement of piety which, known as tajallow (showing off), is regarded as a sin.

By trying to turn the issue of the foulard into a duel between Islam and secularism, the French may be missing the point. The real problem is posed by organized and well-funded efforts of Fascist groups to develop a form of apartheid in which Muslims in France, now numbering almost 6 million, will not be protected by the French political system and the laws that sustain it.

As things are, the foulard concerns a small number of Muslim women in France. The French Interior Ministry's latest report says that only an estimated 11,200, out of some 1.8 million Muslim schoolgirls, wore the "foulard" at schools last year.

The same report says that only 1,253 of those who wore the foulard were involved in incidents provoked by their attempts to force other girls to cover their heads.

A survey by a group of Muslim women in the Paris suburb of Courneuve last May shows that 77 per cent of the girls who wore the foulard did so because they feared that if they did not they would be beaten up or even disfigured by Islamist vigilantes. Girls refusing the foulard are often followed by gangs of youth shouting "putain" (whore) at them.

In some suburbs, the Islamist Fascists have appointed an Emir al-Momeneen (Commander of the Faithful) and set up armed units that the French state fears to confront. These groups tell Muslims not to allow their womenfolk to be examined by male doctors, not to donate blood or receive blood from Jews or Christians, and to prevent girls from studying science, swimming or taking part in group sports.

What the French state needs to do is to protect Muslims on its territory, especially women, against the Fascists who are setting up "emirates" around major French cities, notably Paris.

What France is witnessing is not a clash of civilization between Islam and the West. It is a clash between a new form of fascism and democracy. Islamism must be exposed and opposed politically. To give it any religious credentials is not only unjust but also bad politics.

20 posted on 12/14/2003 7:50:00 AM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
After 2 Visits to the Hangman, More Horror for Iran Dissident

December 14, 2003
The New York Times
Nazila Fathi

TEHRAN -- Ahmad Batebi, a student activist, ran so afoul of the government that he received a death sentence in 1997. It was never carried out, but he languished in jail until on one recent day he was given the luxury of a 20-day leave.

Things went well until, two days before he was to return to the Evin Prison to serve out his 15-year sentence, he was rearrested in November. He had met that day with the United Nations human rights envoy, Ambeyi Ligabo.

A few days later, Mr. Batebi "had a weak voice and said that he could not talk much," said his father, Mohammad Baqer Batebi, who spoke with him by phone. "He did not know where he was taken but said he was in the custody of the judiciary."

Mr. Batebi became a symbol of student struggle for democracy after his picture, which showed him raising the blood-stained T-shirt of a fallen comrade in the student demonstrations of 1997, appeared in the Western media. He was charged with rallying against the government and received the death sentence, which was later reduced to a jail term.

"There is not a second that I don't wish I was a free man," Mr. Batebi said, sipping a milkshake in a cafe here before his rearrest. "Whether I want it or not, I am in prison as a representative of the student movement, and I will have to carry this burden as honorably as I can."

The tough days in prison have shattered him. At the cafe, he pulled out of his pocket a fistful of medicine that he needs to calm his jittery nerves. He has lost teeth and has hearing problems and bad vision because of the beatings of his face.

He has bad lungs, for which he blames his cell's location in the basement next to the main sewage pipe. Most prisoners are sick because of lack of air and the harsh smell of the chemicals used to kill the smell, he said. One of his cellmates, Akbar Mohammadi, had lung surgery.

The authorities at the prison summoned him twice to carry out the death sentence. "They told me to take off my clothes and wear a white dress," he said in the interview. "Every single bone was shaking in my body, and I could hear their sound," he said about the first time he felt the rope around his neck. He was reprieved, but the next time, they kept him on the stool for two hours before they announced that the execution had been postponed.

"Before I was jailed, I thought that the stories others told about their prison experiences were exaggerated," he said, referring to prison memoirs by other activists. "But I told only one-tenth of what happened to me."

For three years now, Mr. Batebi has been able to study sociology from prison, and can take exams at Payam-e-Nour University. "The condition is that I should not speak to any of the students," he said.

His joy in prison is a Spanish guitar, which he luckily found in the cultural section of the prison and learned to play.

Prison has turned Mr. Batebi, once very religious, into a secular person. "I read many books and saw different people in jail," he said. "I learned that I have to depend on myself and no other power to survive."

Despite the common feeling of disappointment toward President Mohammad Khatami, Mr. Batebi says he owes his life to him. "Thanks to him, there were at least a couple of free newspapers to write about Ahmad Batebi and force the authorities to throw away the death sentence," he said. "I would have certainly been executed years earlier."
21 posted on 12/14/2003 7:51:17 AM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Tomen to Pull Out of Japan-Iran Oil Talks

December 14, 2003

TOKYO -- Japanese trading house Tomen Corp has decided to pull out of a government-led consortium negotiating with Iran to develop the Azadegan oilfield, a Japanese newspaper said on Sunday.

The Asahi Shimbun daily said the departure of Tomen, which has strong ties with Iran, may affect the future of the talks, which have stalled due to concerns over Tehran's nuclear programme.

Kyodo news agency said on Friday, quoting officials in the Japanese group, that the negotiations could break down unless Tehran made concessions, adding that differences over contract terms remained wide.

Tomen is receiving support in rebuilding its debt-ridden business from Toyota Motor Corp. It may have given consideration to the possible effect on Toyota's U.S. business, in making the decision to give up the Azadegan talks, Asahi said.

Tomen and Japanese government officials could not be reached for further comment.

Asahi quoted a government source as saying that Tomen's decision would not affect the negotiations as the trading firm's interested was limited to the infrastructure business linked to the oil field.

The Japanese consortium had exclusive rights to negotiate a deal to develop Azadegan, one of the world's largest untapped oilfields, but it backed off under U.S. pressure regarding Iran's nuclear programme and lost exclusive rights in June.

The consortium, composed of Tomen, Japan Petroleum Exploration Co (JAPEX) and INPEX Corp, could be asked by Iran to agree in principle by December 15 to develop the oilfield, a Japanese source in Tehran close to the talks said on Thursday.

Resource-poor Japan has been caught between its desire to develop the oilfield and pressure from the United States, its main security ally.

The board of the U.N. nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), strongly condemned Iran last month for an 18-year cover-up of sensitive nuclear research, including activities which could point to a weapons programme. Iran flatly denies any intention to build nuclear arms.

Iran stressed last Sunday that it was committed to signing an international agreement binding it to snap inspections of its nuclear facilities.
22 posted on 12/14/2003 7:52:17 AM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
The following is posted for the attention of the Murdering Mullahs and their thugs who monitor FR!:

This scene will be coming soon to Iran unless you flee now!

23 posted on 12/14/2003 7:58:17 AM PST by Grampa Dave (George $orea$$ has owned and controlled the Rats for decades!)
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To: F14 Pilot
Freedom ~ Now!

We've smoked Saddam out of his spider hole ~ the democrats are sad ~ very sad! :)

24 posted on 12/14/2003 8:02:46 AM PST by blackie
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To: DoctorZIn
Don't miss this thread!

Terrorist Behind September 11 Strike was Trained by Saddam

25 posted on 12/14/2003 8:05:30 AM PST by TigersEye ("Where there is life there is hope!" - Terri Schiavo)
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To: DoctorZIn
Doctor Zin, below is another message for the murdering mullahs of Iran and their thugs who monitor FR.

Hey Mullahs don't believe what you see on ABCNNBCBS, read in the NY Slimes and hear from your rat buddies in Congress. Your buddy, $oddomite, paid attention to them. Look at what just happened to him!:

26 posted on 12/14/2003 8:06:00 AM PST by Grampa Dave (George $orea$$ has owned and controlled the Rats for decades!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Iran's Election Hopefuls Register for Crunch Vote

Sat December 13, 2003 08:26 AM ET
By Christian Oliver

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Aspiring candidates began registering on Saturday to stand in Iran's parliamentary elections -- a vote that will test popular patience with the country's embattled reform movement.

Reformist President Mohammad Khatami has made the selection of candidates for the February 20 election a theme of speeches in recent weeks, calling on hard-liners not to axe hopefuls from his reformist camp through over-zealous screening.

Pro-reform politicians have voiced alarm that the unelected Guardian Council, a 12-member body dominated by conservative clerics, may exercise its power to veto scores of reformists wanting to contest the poll.

The Guardian Council has in the past vetoed potential candidates for a variety of reasons, including lack of commitment to the constitution, although it rarely gives a public explanation of its decisions.

Mohammad Reza Khatami, the President's younger brother and head of Iran's main reformist party, called for as many people as possible to stand to neutralize the conservatives.

"Younger people and women should enter the race to help turnout and their presence in parliament will help the democratic process," he told reporters.

Reformists fear their main group of supporters, the nation's youth, will stay at home on polling day to vent frustration at the reformist-dominated parliament's inability to overcome resistance from hard-liners who have stifled its bills.

"Very few young people will vote," said Mohammad, a 21-year-old computer programer. "These (MPs) have got to go, the economy is still bust."

Hard-liners have sought to take advantage of this sentiment, telling their supporters to turn out in droves.

The official IRNA news agency said candidates had one week to register for the poll with approved applicants to be announced on December 30.

Candidates, between 30 and 75 years old, must prove their allegiance to the Islamic republic's values, IRNA said. Barring factors range from drug addiction to sympathy for the Shah, toppled in the 1979 Islamic revolution.

Reformists allied to Khatami hold a majority in the 290-seat parliament but political analysts have said heavy vetting of candidates and growing voter apathy in the Islamic Republic could shift that balance.

Voter turnout fell to under 50 percent in municipal elections in February and was below 15 percent in most major cities, handing reformists their first electoral defeat since Khatami's shock presidential win in 1997.

Young voters, particularly students, have looked to reformists to not only ease the Islamic Republic's strict social restrictions but also overhaul the economy and create jobs. Many doubt unemployment is as low as the official rate of 16 percent.

About 70 percent of Iran's 66 million population are under 30. Iranians as young as 16 years old are eligible to vote.

One young engineer working for a foreign company said he was having second thoughts about staying at home on election day.

"I was going to abstain but now that is looking too dangerous," he said, adding that his abstention could usher in conservatives who would unravel the reformists' small gains.

Presidential elections come round again in 2005 but a big swing to the conservatives in parliament could allow hard-liners to remove some of Khatami's ministers.

(Additional reporting by Parisa Hafezi)
27 posted on 12/14/2003 8:12:27 AM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: HoustonCurmudgeon
Big Time.
Romanie, Germany, et al....
One goes down, they all fall.
28 posted on 12/14/2003 8:17:59 AM PST by mabelkitty
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To: DoctorZIn
Iran's reformists fear election bid interference

ABC News

The main reformist party in Iran has expressed fears that conservatives will prevent them from taking part in parliamentary elections next February.

The comments come as the registration of would-be candidates begins.

Reformist leaders say they fear that a powerful conservative watchdog body, the Guardian Council, could veto their members' attempts to run for office.

The BBC reports the biggest of the reformist factions that currently dominate parliament, The Participation Front, has said it will take part in the race.

However, it reserves the right to pull out if too many of its entrants are disqualified.

At present much of the betting is that the reformists will do poorly at the polls, even if their candidates get that far.

They have got little to show in practical terms for their years in office, largely because their efforts to bring about change have been blocked by an entrenched hardline minority.

Many of the millions of Iranians who voted overwhelmingly for the reformists are now bitterly disillusioned.
29 posted on 12/14/2003 8:24:13 AM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn

TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS)

Iranians welcomed the arrest of Saddam Hoseyn, hoping that this would help restoring peace and stability to Iraq and an end to the Coalition occupation of the neighbouring nation.

Mr. Hoseyn was captured in a remote farm, in the Takrit region, few minutes after midnight by a combination of American special forces and Kurd Peshmerga of Mr. Jalal Talabani, the leader of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, who is the present president of the American-installed Provisory Council of Iraq.

"This is a good news for the people of Iraq, who suffered most from the ruthless rule of this dictator and was has to hope also that with Saddam Arrested, the Americans would also leave Iraq", Mr. Ali Shakkoori Rad, a representative of Tehran to the Majles said, quoted by the independent news agency ISNA.

"We are happy and thank God" commented briefly Admiral Ali Shamkhani, the Defence Minister, the only official commenting the event, more than 12 hours after it had been officially announced.

So far, there are no words from any Iranian official, but news agencies and websites gave the news large coverage.

But expressing the thinking of the conservatives, Hojjatoleslam Taha Hashemi, a cleric close to Ayatollah Ali Khameneh’i, the leader of the Islamic Republic and Editor of the conservative daily "Entekhab" told ISNA that the capture of Saddam had been "pre-arranged".

"The Americans knew where he was hiding, as they know where Ben Laden is. But, because of electoral conditions, they had to wait for the best moment to announce the capture", he said.

However, he hoped that the trial of the Iraqi dictator that imposed a devastating war on Iran for eight years would be an occasion for the world to learn about all the sufferings and crimes he imposed on the Iranians.

Mr. Shakkoori Rad also said Iranian observers must be present at the trial of Saddam, that he said must take place in Iraq itself.

30 posted on 12/14/2003 8:32:02 AM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Fantastic, Doc!
31 posted on 12/14/2003 8:37:01 AM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Your joy is your sorrow unmasked." --- GIBRAN)
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To: All
Iraqi joy overflows onto streets, fills air with crackle of bullets
Agence France-Presse. | 12/14/03

Posted on 12/14/2003 8:27:39 AM PST by kattracks

Iraqis celebrated the capture of fallen dictator Saddam Hussein in traditional style, blasting away with their favourite weapons pointed to the skies and folk dancing in the streets.
As news spread across the country that ex-president Saddam Hussein had been captured alive near his hometown Tikrit, prolonged bursts of gun fire, automatic weapons, pistols and heavier calibres filled the air in Baghdad.

"It's a great joy for the Iraqi people because a great dictator has been arrested," interim Governing Council member Mahmud Othman told AFP.

In central Fardous Square, people threw old bank notes bearing Saddam's face into the air.

"It's not possible, it must be a double," said taxi-driver Taher, refusing to believe the eight-month hunt by crack US and Kurdish militia forces had come up trumps.

"Now it is time to look to your future. To your future of hope," US civil administrator Paul Bremer told Iraqis.

"Your future has never been more full of hope. The tyrant is a prisoner," he said.

But at the same press conference several Iraqis shouted "Death to Saddam, Death to Saddam" when photographs were shown of the forlorn leader.

After cheering the news wildly, the men stood up and thrust their arms at the video images of the long-haired and bearded leader and later at a shaved picture of him.

"Long live Iraq," they shouted repeatedly.

In the Shiite holy city of Najaf, which suffered harsh oppression under Saddam's Sunni-led government, people took to the streets to dance, an AFP correspondent said.

A local television channel urged people to party. Music was being played across the central Iraqi city.

Huge crowds gathered around cafes with television sets tuned to Arabic satellite channels following every detail of the arrest.

Street dancing was also underway in the streets of Kirkuk, led by northern oil centre's governor Abdul Rahamnd Mustafa Zangana and his deputy Ismail Ahmad al-Hadidi, who is also police chief.

US soldiers joined the fun while locals started to slaughter sheep to fuel the celebrations.

Old Iraqi flags with Arabic writing added by Saddam were being burnt, witnesses said.

In Suleimaniya, the northern Kurdish stronghold of Patriotic Union of Kurdistan leader Jalal Talabani whose fighters helped capture Saddam, the population rushed out to prepare for the great day, an AFP correspondent said.

By late afternoon traditional Kurdish dancing filled the city centre, 330 kilometres (200 miles) north of the capital.

In Baqubah, the muezzin who normally calls Muslims to prayer, issued a call to celebrate, or a Takdirat al-Eid.

Gunfire echoed over the town 60 kilometres (nearly 40 miles) northeast of the capital where anti-coalition violence has frequently erupted.

In Fallujah, a rebellious town where support for Saddam runs deep, residents said they could not believe the reports.

Hawija, near Kirkuk, and another centre of pro-Saddam loyalists, was reported quiet.

And Tikrit, Saddam's hometown near were he was captured late Saturday as he slept in a hole, was also quiet.

"If they had announced that he had been caught dead, I might have believed it," said an incredulous Jahida Mohammad, 45, mother of eight children.

Tikrit governor Hussein Jassem Gebara said it was unfortunate that foreign forces had caught Saddam. "I would have liked Iraqi police to get him," said the governor.
32 posted on 12/14/2003 8:47:34 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: nuconvert
Awesome post.
33 posted on 12/14/2003 9:31:29 AM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
I just received this from a student inside of Iran regarding the capture of Saddam...

"People are happy & shocked here.

Most say that the regime should review itself... It is a turning point for Iran too. Mullahs can see Saddam now and think about their own destiny.

One Taxi driver said here: Mr.Bush is the 12th Imam of Shiites, God bless him. "

34 posted on 12/14/2003 9:36:22 AM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
What Bush Said

The Scotsman
By PA News Reporters

The following is the full text of US President George Bush’s televised White House statement on the capture of Saddam Hussein:

“Good afternoon. Yesterday, December 13th, at around 8.30pm Baghdad time United States military forces capture Saddam Hussein alive.

“He was found near a farmhouse outside the city of Tikrit in a swift raid conducted without casualties and now the former dictator of Iraq will face the justice he denied to millions.

“The capture of this man was crucial to the rise of a free Iraq.

“It marks the end of the road for him and all who bullied and killed in his name.

“For the Baathist hold-outs largely responsible for the current violence there will be no return to the corrupt power and privilege they once held.

“For the vast majority of citizens who wish to live as free men and women this event brings further assurance that the torture chambers and the secret police are gone forever.

“And this afternoon, I have a message for the Iraqi people: You will not have to fear the rule of Saddam Hussein ever again.

“All Iraqis who take the side of freedom have taken the winning side.

“The goals of the Coalition are the same as your goals. Sovereignty for your country, dignity for your great culture and, for every Iraqi citizen, the opportunity for a better life.

“In the history of Iraq a dark and painful era is over. A hopeful day has arrived.

“All Iraqis can now come together and reject violence and build a new Iraq.

“The success of yesterday’s mission is a tribute to our men and women now serving in Iraq.

“The operation was based on the superb work of intelligence analysts who found the dictator’s footprints in a vast country.

“The operation was carried out with skill and precision by a brave fighting force.

“Our servicemen and women, our Coalition allies, have faced many dangers in the hunt for members of the former regime and in their effort to bring hope and freedom to the Iraqi people.

“Their work continues. And so do the risks.

“Today, on behalf of the nation, I thank the members of our armed forces and I congratulate them.

“I also have a message for all Americans.

“the capture of Saddam Hussein does not mean the end of violence in Iraq.

“We still face terrorists who would rather go on killing the innocent than accept the rise of liberty in the heart of the Middle East.

“Such men are a direct threat to the American people and they will be defeated.

“We have come to this moment through patience and resolve and focused action and that is our strategy moving forward.

“The war on terror is a different kind of war, waged capture by capture, cell by cell and victory by victory.

“Our security is assured by our perseverance and by our sure belief in the success of liberty and the United States of America will not relent until this war is won.

“May God bless the people of Iraq and may God Bless America.”
35 posted on 12/14/2003 10:21:35 AM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
“May God bless the people of Iraq and may God Bless America.”

Very appropriate. Our destinies are entwined for the rest of time. May God bless Geo.W.Bush.

36 posted on 12/14/2003 12:41:34 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Your joy is your sorrow unmasked." --- GIBRAN)
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To: DoctorZIn
Iranians celebrate Saddam's capture

SMCCDI (Information Service)
Dec 14, 2003

Millions of Iranians, still remembering the Iraqi agression of 1980-88, celebrated Saddam's capture and thousands honked their cars' horns while many distributed pastries in the streets.

The long awaited expected news on the one who caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iranians and the destruction of several cities lead to public cheers and congratulations which were made in the streets or by phones with often allusions to what will always be the end of "tyrans and butchers".

Reports from the southern cities of Abadan and Khorramshahr, which were turned into gravel by the Iraqi soldiers, are stating about public gatherings and even collective dances that took place in many squares under the eyes of security forces staying affar and even showing signs of approval.

Several tracts were seen in Esfahan and Tehran giving the hope for a future Liberation of Iran and the end of the ruling regime "by joining its Iraqi model in the dust bin of history".
37 posted on 12/14/2003 1:23:59 PM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Cowardly Loser
Saddam, in the bag.

By Amir Taheri
National Review Online
December 14, 2003, 2:39 p.m.

And, yet, this was not how Iraqis, and beyond them the whole world, saw him yesterday.

Saddam Hussein had claimed that he would fight his "Mother of Battles" to the bitter end, and would not be captured alive.

In one of the recent audiotapes attributed to him by the Arab satellite television channel al Jazeera, Saddam promised to fight the Americans until his death on the battlefield.

"I have a gun and I shall use it," he had warned.

In the event, however, not a single shot was fired during his arrest. Not only did he not fight but he immediately offered his "cooperation."

"He is in the bag, singing like a canary!"

This is how news of Saddam Hussein's capture spread throughout Iraq yesterday.

The image that Iraqis saw yesterday was one of a shaky coward, hiding behind a bushy beard, and emerging from a rat hole somewhere near his hometown of Tikrit.

Saddam's arrest has triggered scenes of jubilation that Iraq had not seen since its liberation six months ago.

"This is splendid news," said Adnan Pachachi, current president of the Iraq Governing Council. "It shows that the enemies of the people can run but cannot hide for ever."

It was not only in Baghdad, Basra, and Erbil that the news prompted scenes of euphoric joy. People were dancing in the streets even in the so-called Sunni Triangle which some have wrongly described as a base of support for the fallen dictator.

It may take months for the full impact of the final demise of Saddam to become fully apparent in Iraq and other Arab countries. His was the most brutal of the one-party regimes that the Arabs developed from the 1950s onwards. His rule affected almost every Iraqi. There is hardly an Iraqi family that did not lose at least one, member to Saddam's death machine. And that includes Saddam's own family. He murdered dozens of his own relatives, including both his sons-in-laws, two of his grandsons, a supposedly "favorite" uncle, and several cousins.

His victims included not only Shiites, Kurds, the Marsh Arabs and the Yazidis, but also Arab Sunnis. The Iraqi army itself was one of his victims; he killed thousands of officers. Even the ruling Baath party was a victim of Saddam's terror. Of the 16 members of the Baath top leaders in 1968, only one was alive in 2003: Saddam Hussein. All others had been murdered by him inside or outside Iraq.

Some wonder why was Saddam captured at this time.

One reason is that it was only three or four weeks ago that the U.S.-led Coalition began seriously looking for him. A special task force was assigned to hunt down Saddam and the remaining figures on the notorious "pack of cards."

Another reason is that the hunt, previously confined to the Coalition, was reorganized to give Iraqis a greater role. The actual, arrest was carried out by American troops. But the intelligence that led to it came from Iraqi individuals, including Sunni Muslims, both Kurds and Arabs. This was a joint U.S.-Iraqi operation, and an example of what could be achieved when the two work together.

Will Saddam's arrest bring the current terrorist campaign to an end?

Not necessarily.

Hidden in his hole, Saddam could not have exercised effective leadership over the terror networks. His capture could dishearten some of the Baathist criminals who might hope for a restoration. But others would continue their terror to plunge the country into chaos and escape punishment for their crimes. There are also dozens of non-Iraq Arab terrorists who have gone to Iraq to kill Americans because it is becoming harder for them to do so in other places, including the U.S. itself. To these must be added Mafia-style groups who, having lost control of the black market that was created by the UN sanctions, have an interest in preventing stabilization.

Saddam's arrest may have other effects, some negative, and some positive.

First the negative possible effects:

The removal of the fear that he may one day come back to power could end the restraint that many Iraqis have exercised in expressing themselves since liberation. They may now wish to come out with the 1,001 grievances that they have accumulated over decades, posing demands that would be hard to meet in a short time.

The Shiites and the Kurds who had measured their every move so as not to weaken the Coalition may now become bolder in pursuit of their own political agendas. With the unifying fear of Saddam gone they may be tempted to put their sectarian agendas above a broader national strategy.

For the same reason, Iran and Syria, who did not wish to Saddam return to power in any form, may also adopt a more hostile attitude towards the Coalition. Their hope would be to force the U.S. out and thus seize control of the agenda for a future Iraqi government.

The Arab powers, which also did not wish to see Saddam restored, may now throw their weight behind an alternative Arab Sunni leadership and try to play the ethnic-sectarian card in Iraqi politics.

On the positive side: Saddam's arrest could persuade many Iraqis that it is now safe to come out and work with the Coalition and the Governing Council. An Arab proverb says: He who congratulates the victor on the first day is a fool, he who does so on the second day is an opportunist, but he who does it on the third day is a wise man. Saddam's arrest may persuade many Iraqis that the "third day" has dawned. This is especially true of Sunni Arabs some of whom had adopted a wait-and-see attitude.

The arrest could provide valuable information that only Saddam possessed. His was a highly centralized power-structure in which only the chief knew exactly what was going on. The information that he is apparently offering could lead to a speedier dismantling of the terror organizations.

The end of the Saddam saga could persuade some Arab powers, notably those in the Persian Gulf, that it is time to recognize the Governing Council in Baghdad as the legitimate authority in Iraq. This could come as early as next week when the Gulf Cooperation summit is held in Kuwait.

Several European powers, notably France and Russia, may now realize that there is no possibility of Saddam or any of his supporters returning to power in Baghdad and that it is in their best interests to help with Iraq's stabilization, or at least, refrain from acts designed to undermine it. By the same token, some countries that hesitated to contribute peacekeeping troops to Iraq may now be more willing to do so, if only out of pure opportunism.

The Governing Council and the Coalition would have to move fast to set a timetable for the trial of the Baathist leaders, including Saddam. Ideally, the trials should begin early next year, and certainly before power is transferred from the Coalition to a new Iraqi transition government. The special tribunal set up by the Governing Council last week is the perfect framework within which to hold the trials.

Some Western nostalgics of Saddam in Paris and London have suggested that the fallen tyrant be tried by the recently created International Criminal Court.

Their suggestion is prompted by two considerations. First, the United States is not included in the ICC, and thus would not be able to play a part in interrogating Saddam. The second is that the ICC would not be able to try Saddam for all his crimes since July 17, 1968, the date at which his Baath party seized power in a military coup d'etat. (The ICC's remit is limited to crimes committed since its own creation in 2002.)

Saddam has countless questions to answer.

Some are of special interest to the people of Iraq. Most urgently, he must provide information on the fate of some 13,000 Iraqis classified as "missing" after being arrested by his secret police.

Then he must provide his narrative of 35 years of criminal rule that led to four foreign wars, two civil wars, and countless smaller conflicts in which some 1.5 million people, including many Iranians and Kuwaitis, died. So far the United Nations has discovered some 300,000 corpses in mass graves throughout Iraq. But many more corpses are still missing, including victims of chemical weapons. He is also responsible for driving some 4.5 million Iraqis, almost a fifth of the nation's population, out of their homes. In the Kurdish areas alone he presided over the destruction of over 400 villages in the 1980s.

Saddam must also tell the Iraqis what he did with their money. During the Baath party's 35-year rule, Iraq earned nearly $300 billion from oil exports. It also received some $50 billion in the form of gifts from the Arab oil-states of the Persian Gulf. And, yet, when Saddam fell Iraq had a foreign debt of over $120 billion. Bearing in mind that he built virtually no infrastructure apart from his 25 palaces, he will have a lot of explaining to do.

The outside world would be interested in what Saddam would have to say on other issues as well.

First, Saddam must provide answers to the 29 questions asked by Hans Blix, the chief U.N. weapons' inspector in his last report on 7 March 2003, about Iraq's missing weapons of mass destruction. Saddam should tell the world where those weapons are and, if they did not exist, why had he refused to answer Blix's questions, thus pretending that they did exist.

Second, Saddam should tell the world which Western governments and corporations helped him build his death machine. He must also tell the world which European, and Arab, politicians, businessmen, bankers, media people, and so-called "peace activists" he bribed over the years.

Finally, he should tell all he knows about the two dozen or so terrorist organizations that he trained, financed, and sheltered for decades. Initially, Saddam may not have had a direct link with the al Qaeda gang. But several of the groups that he supported, and allowed headquarters in Baghdad, certainly did. And it is almost certain that, after the year 2000, he allowed at least one al Qaeda affiliated group, the Ansar al-Islam, to set up two bases in Iraq.

All those questions, however, must be left for another day.

"I don't want to talk politics today," said an Iraqi a friend reached over the telephone in Baghdad yesterday.

He quoted lines by Jahiz, an Arab poet of the pre-Islamic era:

The dragon that hid the moon is gone, The bloodsucker has vanished into the abyss. Let me taste this day like the ripest of dates, And come tomorrow to talk about the days to come.
The sentiment was shared by many Iraqis. Some Arabs, however, felt despondent not because they had any affection for Saddam Hussein but because, prompted by tribal reflex, did not wish to see an Arab chief captured like a thief, although they know he was one.

Nevertheless, attempts at putting the machine of conspiracy theories in full gear failed quickly. Claims by some Arab TVs that the man captured was one of Saddam's doubles were quickly laughed of screen. Then came the rumor that Saddam had not fought because he had made a deal with the U.S.-led Coalition. But what deal? The Arab answer was: a deal under which Saddam will be tried by an international court, rather than an Iraqi tribunal. But that, too, quickly proved false as the Governing Council announced it would try Saddam in Baghdad. Yet another rumor was that a Kurdish group had managed to drug the kebabs sent to Saddam in his hole, which explains why the dictator appeared somewhat dazed when captured.

But that rumor, too, did not fly. There was no way that any Kurdish group would organize a take-away kebab service for Saddam. But when his trial opens there will be many Kurds who would have many questions to ask him.

— Amir Taheri is an Iranian author of 10 books on the Middle East and Islam. He's reachable through
38 posted on 12/14/2003 1:36:07 PM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
TIME Exclusive: Notes from Saddam in Custody
Saddam is talking, but he isn't cooperative. New details on his capture and his first interrogation

Sunday, Dec. 14, 2003

Saddam Hussein was captured on Sunday without a fight. But since then, according to a U.S. intelligence official in Iraq, the fallen dictator has been defiant. “He’s not been very cooperative,” said the official, who read the transcript of the initial interrogation report taken during the first questioning session.

After his capture, Saddam was taken to a holding cell at the Baghdad Airport. He didn’t answer any of the initial questions directly, the official said, and at times seemed less than fully coherent. The transcript was full of “Saddam rhetoric type stuff,” said the official who paraphrased Saddam’s answers to some of the questions. When asked “How are you?” said the official, Saddam responded, “I am sad because my people are in bondage.” When offered a glass of water by his interrogators, Saddam replied, “If I drink water I will have to go to the bathroom and how can I use the bathroom when my people are in bondage?”

The interrogators also asked Saddam if he knew about the location of Captain Scott Speicher, a U.S. pilot who went missing during the first Gulf War. “No,” replied the former Iraqi president, “we have never kept any prisoners. I have never known what happened.”

Saddam was also asked whether Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction. “No, of course not,” he replied, according to the official, “the U.S. dreamed them up itself to have a reason to go to war with us.” The interrogator continued along this line, said the official, asking: “if you had no weapons of mass destruction then why not let the U.N. inspectors into your facilities?” Saddam’s reply: “We didn’t want them to go into the presidential areas and intrude on our privacy.”

The official is doubtful that the U.S. will get a significant amount of intelligence from Saddam’s interrogations. “I would be surprised if he gave any info,” he said. Other high-ranking regime members, he said, have by and large remained mum. “Tariq Aziz [former deputy prime minister] hasn’t really spoken,” he said, “and Abid Mahmoud [Saddam’s former personal secretary] hasn’t really given any information.”

The raid on the farm in al-Dawr, a village 15 miles from his hometown of Tikrit, initially came up empty, the official said. There was no Saddam Hussein in sight. Then one man on the property, apparently realizing the game was up, pointed out a bricked-in wall inside the basement of a small house on the property. Saddam is in there, he told the special forces operators from Task Force 121, who took down the farm with the aid of soldiers from the 1st Brigade of the Fourth Infantry Division. Saddam was bricked into his hiding place, he added. “They couldn’t get him out at first and had to dig, from either side of the hole,” said the official. The soldiers finally made a large enough passageway to drag him out. When he came out, he looked bedraggled, said the official: “He looked like a homeless man at the bus station.”

Along with the $750,000 in cash, two AK 47 machine guns and pistol found with Saddam, the U.S. intelligence official confirmed that operatives found a briefcase with Saddam that contained a letter from a Baghdad resistance leader. Contained in the message, the official said, were the minutes from a meeting of a number of resistance leaders who came together in the capital. The official said the names found on this piece of paper will be valuable and could lead to the capture of insurgency leaders around the Sunni Triangle.

The official said it may soon be clear how much command and control over the insurgency Saddam actually had while he was in hiding. “We can now determine,” he said, “if he is the mastermind of everything or not.” The official elaborated: “Have we actually cut the head of the snake or is he just an idiot hiding in a hole?”,8599,561472,00.html
39 posted on 12/14/2003 1:40:48 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Your joy is your sorrow unmasked." --- GIBRAN)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife; fat city; freedom44; Tamsey; Grampa Dave; PhiKapMom; McGavin999; Hinoki Cypress; ...
Cowardly Loser
Saddam, in the bag.

By Amir Taheri
National Review Online
December 14, 2003, 2:39 p.m.
40 posted on 12/14/2003 1:52:14 PM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: DoctorZIn
Ah, this is a great day, isn't it Doctor? Now the Iranian people have the momentum on their side. What do you suppose they will do with it?
42 posted on 12/14/2003 3:16:19 PM PST by McGavin999
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To: DoctorZIn
According to their site IRNA broke the news on Saddam:
Former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein captured

With the arrest of Saddam, the source financing terrorists has been destroyed and terrorist attacks will come to an end. Now we can establish a durable stability and security in Iraq," he said.
General mood across several Iraqi cities, including Baghdad, were festive, with people seen firing volleys in jubilation as well as dancing on the streets.
The news, first wired by IRNA, was given widespread coverage by world media and received mostly with warm welcome.
Several Brussels-based journalists phoned the IRNA bureau Sunday to congratulate the Islamic Republic News Agency on its world wide scoop on the arrest of Saddam Hussein.
"It is a very big and historic scoop for IRNA. All the world media acknowledged it," said one correspondent.
43 posted on 12/14/2003 4:08:34 PM PST by AdmSmith
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To: DoctorZIn
"Yet another rumor was that a Kurdish group had managed to drug the kebabs sent to Saddam in his hole, which explains why the dictator appeared somewhat dazed when captured.

But that rumor, too, did not fly. There was no way that any Kurdish group would organize a take-away kebab service for Saddam."

LOL!! Might be the funniest thing I've read from Mr. Taheri.
44 posted on 12/14/2003 6:43:59 PM PST by nuconvert
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To: DoctorZIn
Iran has Saddam's Enriched Uranium?

Mansoor Ijaz on Bill O'Reilly's Sunday's O'Reilly Factor claimed that the US now has an Iraqi who claims to now where Saddam's WMD is located. This source was waiting for either proof of Saddam's death, capture or relocation of his family in a third country.

Ijaz claimed that this informer had transported enriched uranium into Iran. This informer is alleged to now have cancer as a result of this contact with enriched uranium.

He also claims to know of its transport into Syria and the location of a secret lab in Iraq.

Ijaz predicted that prior to Bush's state of the union we will have found the long sought after WMD's.

45 posted on 12/14/2003 6:47:57 PM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife; fat city; freedom44; Tamsey; Grampa Dave; PhiKapMom; McGavin999; Hinoki Cypress; ...
Iran has Saddam's Enriched Uranium?

Mansoor Ijaz on Bill O'Reilly's Sunday's O'Reilly Factor
46 posted on 12/14/2003 6:59:12 PM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Is there an article yet, from FOX, confirming this? Ping me if you find it, please.
47 posted on 12/14/2003 7:02:07 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Your joy is your sorrow unmasked." --- GIBRAN)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
It was just reported on the broadcast. Look for print articles to follow tomorrow.
48 posted on 12/14/2003 7:06:37 PM PST by DoctorZIn (Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
"Ijaz predicted that prior to Bush's state of the union we will have found the long sought after WMD's."


That would be fantastic! I hope it's true. Ijaz is usually very well plugged into such info.

49 posted on 12/14/2003 7:48:23 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
No article, but I also heard part of what Ijaz said -- nothing on the web about it.
50 posted on 12/14/2003 7:56:01 PM PST by FairOpinion
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