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Liberals on the List: Conservative Students Are Tracking Professors Who Arouse Ire
ABCNEWS.com ^ | Dec. 13 | Mike von Fremd

Posted on 12/15/2003 12:30:07 AM PST by nickcarraway

D A L L A S, Dec. 13— University of Texas journalism professor Robert Jensen is an unapologetic liberal who openly expresses his strong views, both in and out of the classroom.

"My political views are left," Jensen said. "Some people would call me a radical." In the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001, student Austin Kinghorn felt Jensen crossed the line.

"We walked in, and he had the overhead projector turned on, and on there was a sentence, 'What is terrorism?' " Kinghorn said. "And Jensen took the next hour and 15 minutes of class to basically make his point, two days after 9/11, that the American government is a far worse perpetrator of terrorism than the 9/11 hijackers."

Kinghorn, chairman of the Young Conservatives of Texas, was deeply offended.

"I felt like Professor Jensen was manipulating a national tragedy," Kinghorn said, "to make a point that he wants to make about his far-leftist agenda that seems to blame every problem in the world on American policy."

The Young Conservatives decided to make Jensen No. 1 on a newly created "watch list," which was posted on their Web site and also published in a local newspaper. It includes 10 professors at the University of Texas, the nation's largest public college, whom the conservatives accuse of trying to indoctrinate students and using the classrooms to promote their personal agendas.

"It's a list of professors that need to be scrutinized, watched," said Brendan Steinhauser, a member of the Young Conservatives of Texas. "They need to be held accountable for their actions in the classroom. And they haven't been yet."

Conservative Trend

The number of conservative and Republican groups organizing on college campuses has nearly tripled in the last four years. And some officials in Washington also have acted.

"I think you're going to have more and more conservative students standing up and creating a new counterculture that doesn't believe that all morals are relative, that believes in absolute values, that believes in conservative government," Kinghorn said. "And they're going to get louder and louder as they feel more and more oppressed."

Though colleges have a reputation as bastions of liberalism, college students are more likely to call themselves political independents than any other affiliation, according to the ABCNEWS polling unit. For those in college, ages 18 to 22, 27 percent call themselves Democrats, 34 percent Republicans and 35 percent independents. College students are more likely to say they are liberal than other Americans, but the biggest percentage, 41 percent, call themselves moderate.

The general public is roughly evenly divided among Democrats, Republicans and independents.

In Washington, Rep. Jack Kingston, R-Ga., recently introduced an academic "bill of rights" to protect students from "one-sided liberal propaganda." The House of Representatives passed a bill to monitor whether federally funded centers for international research reflect and respond to the needs of national security.

And a group founded by Lynne Cheney, the wife of the vice president, that blasted academics right after 9/11 for being "the weak link in America's response to the attack" urged a Senate committee to raise public awareness of what it called the problem of liberal bias on campus and to encourage universities to conduct "intellectual diversity reviews."

"It's a trend which, if it got completely out of hand, could lead us to another McCarthy kind of situation," said Edmund Gordon, a UT associate professor who is on the Young Conservatives of Texas list. "I certainly hope it doesn't go that far."

‘Labeled a Radical’

Gordon is accused of overemphasizing white oppression of African-Americans.

"I was actually not labeled a liberal," Gordon said. "I was labeled a radical."

He said his classroom has undergone a dramatic change.

"I never had people who were avowedly Young Conservatives in my class, as students, who announced that they were that from the very beginning," Gordon said. "I feel like they were put there to watch me. And this watch list or my position on this watch list is a result of that. So, do I feel like I'm under surveillance? I am under surveillance."

Jensen gives the conservative students plenty to watch, hanging posters of Cuban revolutionary leaders in his office and writing controversial editorials in the Texas papers. One such editorial, published in the Houston Chronicle just after Sept. 11, 2001, was headlined, "U.S. Just as Guilty of Committing Own Violent Acts."

"It led the president of the university to issue a public statement denouncing me, in which he called me foolish," Jensen said.

The reprimand did not bother Jensen or affect his behavior. He's a tenured professor and his job at the public university is protected.

He loves to stir things up in the classroom, and some students are complimentary.

"I think what Jensen really wants us to do is to learn to think critically about our role in society and society as a whole," one student said.

"I think that if a teacher is completely neutral, which I personally don't think is possible, it would make a class boring," said another.

Censorship?

Jensen fears he could be pressured into toning down his message.

"Nobody with power is telling me I can't say something," Jensen said. "It's only going to become censorship if university administrators, who have the power to hire and fire and the power to punish faculty, start requiring a kind of ideological conformity for advancement in the profession. If that happens, then higher education is dead."

The very idea of making lists of members of opposing groups has a long and checkered history in America. Hollywood once had its black list, an unwritten understanding of those who would be denied work because of their suspected affiliation or sympathy with communism. President Nixon had an infamous enemies list, and his political opponents had their own scoreboard of so-called war criminals in his Cabinet. The National Rifle Association recently put out its own listing of adversaries. Some of them said they were proud to be on it.

So, perhaps there's no wonder the latest incarnation of political watch lists has caused such a stir on college campuses. Whether these lists are promoting tactics of intimidation or simply exercising free speech is a matter of debate.

The Young Conservatives say their watch list is about promoting intellectual diversity. But others say it feels more like censorship and the start of a campus culture war.

The Young Conservatives bristle at any suggestion their watch list is a form of censorship. But they intend to put a select group of professors on notice that the classroom is not the place for a one-sided bully pulpit.

"I've had liberal professors who are great professors," Kinghorn said. "I'm not afraid of opinions. None of us are. What we're afraid of is students who don't get both sides of the stories and don't have enough information to make informed decisions, which is supposedly what a college degree is all about."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: abcdisneynews; academia; academicbias; achillwind; activistjournalism; agitprop; antiamericanism; blameamericafirst; brainwashing; cheeseandwhine; colleges; conservatism; dairyproducts; education; hateamericafirst; indoctrination; justthefactsmaam; leftism; leftwingnut; mediabias; mindsfullofmush; propaganda; publicschool; publicuniversity; reddiaperbaby; reeducationcenters; robertjensen; saddamite; stalinsusefulidiots; taxdollarsatwork; tenuredradicals; texas; unamerican; universities; universityoftexas; usefulidiot; ut; youpayforthis

The Young Conservatives of Texas have created a "watch list" for professors they accuse of liberal bias.

1 posted on 12/15/2003 12:30:08 AM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway
Jensen is over the line.He is a communist,America hater.The U of Texas is Berkeley on the Colorado(not the Brazos)
2 posted on 12/15/2003 12:37:06 AM PST by MEG33
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To: nickcarraway
Young Republicans: Survey says: Undergrads swing right
3 posted on 12/15/2003 12:37:14 AM PST by nickcarraway (www.terrisfight.org)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah; Desdemona; King Nothing; EternalVigilance; katherineisgreat; Mich0127; ...
ping
4 posted on 12/15/2003 12:38:06 AM PST by nickcarraway (www.terrisfight.org)
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To: nickcarraway
I've experienced this. Many liberal arts professors are out of line. They are paid to teach, not to indoctrinate. I would like to see some conservative organizations tap into the alumni giving- and give on the condition that the student's rights are respected.
5 posted on 12/15/2003 12:40:43 AM PST by jagrmeister (I'm not a conservative. I don't seek to conserve, I seek to reform.)
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To: nickcarraway
Where did people ever get the idea that teachers were supposed to do something other than teach?

A classroom is not a coffee klatch for telling everyone your philosophy of life. If you are spending an hour and a half trying to make a political point, you have lost your way.

That is not education. That is indoctrination.
6 posted on 12/15/2003 12:42:16 AM PST by I still care
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To: nickcarraway
Jensen = P.O.S.
7 posted on 12/15/2003 12:42:52 AM PST by Az Joe
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To: nickcarraway
[ Conservative Students Are Tracking Professors Who Arouse Ire ]

AND ITS ABOUT DAMN TIME TOO....
If some enterpiseing student(s) has as much grit as the Alamo girl(s).... and publish's on the internet it... IT will be very useful especially with a few notes(or more) on each...

8 posted on 12/15/2003 12:47:11 AM PST by hosepipe
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To: nickcarraway
These young Conservatives should also study the reports the Media Research Center puts out about Media Bias.

"The Leader in Documenting, Exposing and
Neutralizing Liberal Media Bias" read by major
Conservative players!

http://www.mrc.org
or
http://www.mediaresearchcenter.com

9 posted on 12/15/2003 12:49:52 AM PST by Joy Angela (Hillary is Angry and Unstable. Watch out! She's gonna blow!!)
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To: nickcarraway
Robert Jensen threads can be found on FR here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/k-robertjensen/browse (keyword RobertJensen)

He is no stranger to FReeperland. Here is his own idiotorial about appearing on these students' list:

They'll 'watch' but won't hear of prof's politics

10 posted on 12/15/2003 12:53:03 AM PST by weegee
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To: nickcarraway
I'll comment before visiting the site. The issue is not necessarily what you profess but when and where you do it. Why are professors who aren't teaching about current events like math and science ranting anti-US garbage in their classes? Sure as hell most Young Conservative want a decent public education and don't need the extra BS. Thats where the administration needs to stand up for the scholastic integrity of the university. Most just cover their butts and staff.
11 posted on 12/15/2003 12:55:34 AM PST by endthematrix (To enter my lane you must use your turn signal!)
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To: nickcarraway
Though colleges have a reputation as bastions of liberalism, college students are more likely to call themselves political independents than any other affiliation, according to the ABCNEWS polling unit.

Notice how Disney News Network doesn't give polling figures on what political stripe professors align themselves with? It's the professors who are doing the indocrinating (don't echo back the right propaganda and you might not pass the course).

Political correctness thrives on college campuses. This is why colleges have a "reputation" as being bastions of liberalism. That, and tenured professors who cannot be removed. A list like this at least alerts students to things like anticapitalist socialist professors who "teach" economics.

12 posted on 12/15/2003 12:58:34 AM PST by weegee
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To: nickcarraway
i THINK this is answer to prayer

AND

confirmation of prophecies predicting that youth would rise up massively helping to turn the tide back toward Biblical values.

I pray it's true, increaslingly true.
13 posted on 12/15/2003 1:02:49 AM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: nickcarraway
MEDIA BIAS ALERT (note no Rats in the examples cited by ABCDISNEY)

The very idea of making lists of members of opposing groups has a long and checkered history in America. Hollywood once had its black list, an unwritten understanding of those who would be denied work because of their suspected affiliation or sympathy with communism. President Nixon had an infamous enemies list, and his political opponents had their own scoreboard of so-called war criminals in his Cabinet. The National Rifle Association recently put out its own listing of adversaries. Some of them said they were proud to be on it.

Hollywood had a blacklist long before the 1940s "Red Scare" (which did show the presence of Soviet agents in American government and propaganda efforts being worked into American films). Hollywood still has a blacklist to this day; try crossing a union strike and see how much work you get in Hollywood films.

President Clinton had an enemies list and he harassed them with IRS audits. Seems that many of Bill Clinton's critics got audited.

14 posted on 12/15/2003 1:05:36 AM PST by weegee
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To: nickcarraway
Why do I feel fairly sure that if a college *journalism* professor was putting pictures of Nathan B Forrest (founder of the KKK) up and giving lectures on how the Jews deserved what Hitler did to them, that the press would not be so fawning, and would not keep bringing up the red herring of his rights being abridged by others complaining about his hate mongering?
15 posted on 12/15/2003 1:15:56 AM PST by swilhelm73
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To: weegee
"President Clinton had an enemies list and he harassed them with IRS audits. Seems that many of Bill Clinton's critics got audited."

Or a mysterious gunshot wound to the head or a convenient heart-attack.

16 posted on 12/15/2003 1:16:32 AM PST by endthematrix (To enter my lane you must use your turn signal!)
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To: nickcarraway
Where is the list?
17 posted on 12/15/2003 1:54:31 AM PST by ragnarocker (Ragna rocks)
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To: nickcarraway
In the beginning of colleges and universities the proffesors were paid directly by the students based on how much the student felt the teaching was worth. The old ways are the best ways. The worthless teachers would be weeded out quite quickly.
18 posted on 12/15/2003 2:21:35 AM PST by fella
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To: nickcarraway
Bump!
19 posted on 12/15/2003 2:33:13 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: nickcarraway
A CLASS STRUGGLE: Tenure of Avowed Marxist Controversy jolts College

Parents mourn children killed during protests

20 posted on 12/15/2003 2:38:35 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: jagrmeister
"It's only going to become censorship if university administrators, who have the power to hire and fire and the power to punish faculty, start requiring a kind of ideological conformity for advancement in the profession. If that happens, then higher education is dead."

By Jensen's definiyion, higher education is already dead because conservatives cannot get hired at publically funded universities in other than token numbers. The tokens do not advance, get published or get advanced in any degree comparable to their Liberal counterparts. Noam Chomsky, for instance, is a brilliant linguist but a political moron. His views are widely known and published. Walter Williams, on the other hand, is absolutety brilliant on the topics where he does the most publishing-- and largely unknown outside the conservative press.

21 posted on 12/15/2003 4:41:51 AM PST by Vigilanteman
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To: Vigilanteman
"Nobody with power is telling me I can't say something," Jensen said. "It's only going to become censorship if university administrators, who have the power to hire and fire and the power to punish faculty, start requiring a kind of ideological conformity for advancement in the profession. If that happens, then higher education is dead."

Briefly... memo to Prof.: higher education is dead and you have nobody but yourself to blame

22 posted on 12/15/2003 5:32:10 AM PST by thoughtomator (The Democrat party is a terrorist organization)
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To: I still care
"That is not education. That is indoctrination."

Well, you're correct. BUT it's not so much outright indoctrination...although there is an English teacher at my school, (I teach social studies) who is telling the kids that the American Revolution was won by Haitians (based on Haitian volunteer participation in the Battle for Savannah, Georgia--and they lost 500 men in an hour and lost the battle)....and the Principal is encouraging this...I was shouted down and reprimanded....

It's the way in which information is presented.

All that is required is that the facts be presented with a liberal slant. That is what the district AGENDA is in Miami-Dade County....the liberal side, and not the conservative side. They will tell you there isn't a "side" to anything, but that's not true. I prove it everyday. See my about page.

BTW, on the Haitian issue in the American Revolution, I just changed my tactics from declaring both the Principal and the English teacher to be communist LIARS, to the following statement: "ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! Those brave HAITIAN soldiers provided the British with so many PRISONERS that they didn't have the troops to pursue the colonials back up to the northern states where the Founding Fathers and their army subsequently won the war....."

See? It's all in the presentation! My remarks infuriate the Principal and that teacher, but they can't "get" me although they'd really like to do that. I may be out numbered and out gunned, but no conservative in a sea of liberals is out smarted.

23 posted on 12/15/2003 5:40:59 AM PST by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: nickcarraway
I would have no problem with radical leftists professors spouting their garbage IF some radical rightists were permitted to do the same. When David Horowitz and Ann Coulter (hardly radicals), e.g., show up at a college forum, they are threatened and shouted down. Would either of them ever be hired as professors at Texas or any other university? How about David Duke?

Is there close to an equal percentage of professors who are politically to the right of center to those who are politically to the left? It's not even close.

Just like the affirmative action bake sale concept, this "Watch List" turns the tables of political correctness back on those who created it.

24 posted on 12/15/2003 6:05:15 AM PST by randita
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To: MEG33
An effective tactic might be to organize against such professor by urging students NOT to take their courses. There is nothing that administrators reject more than professors who do not "draw" the students in. Why? It's all about the money: more students mean more money to the institution, if not to the professor.
25 posted on 12/15/2003 6:07:21 AM PST by Theodore R.
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To: nickcarraway
"It's a trend which, if it got completely out of hand, could lead us to another McCarthy kind of situation," said Edmund Gordon, a UT associate professor who is on the Young Conservatives of Texas list. "I certainly hope it doesn't go that far."

"Left-wing professors like Edmund Gordon who hate America and indoctrinate their students in the same treasonous ideas is a trend which, if it got completely out of hand, could lead us to another Stalinist gulag kind of situation," said an amused spectator of the Free Republic. "I certainly hope it doesn't go that far."

26 posted on 12/15/2003 6:12:07 AM PST by an amused spectator (got Rush hate? ;-))
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To: nickcarraway
"'I never had people who were avowedly Young Conservatives in my class, as students, who announced that they were that from the very beginning,' Gordon said."

How can you be a college professor and be this stupid?
Does Gordon actually think that somebody who wants a good grade in his class is going to make himself a target by saying he's a conservative?

Does this idiot really think he's never had a conservative in his class?

27 posted on 12/15/2003 6:15:36 AM PST by Redbob (this space reserved for witty remarks)
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To: nickcarraway
Someone should check out this fellow

Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy
University of New Mexico
http://www.unm.edu/~rhayes

"so we should rejoice that Texas is not as bad as Iraq? I mourn because Texas is not as good as New Mexico and that New Mexico is not as good as Canada, Norway, Sweden, Germany, France or any number of other nations that have found alternatives to capital punishment and large-scale incarceration."

"...it's time for a change of regime in the USA."

"George W. Bush could also end this situation now by resigning from the presidency and going into exile, along with all his advisors, into western Texas. But it is likely he won't, and like Hitler, will make his people suffer. The thing is that Saddam and George W. have dreams about each other. Each is the projection of the other's unresolved emotional complexes."

"I do no side with Bush against Saddam or with Saddam against Bush. I wish them both the very best in health and happiness. I believe that if they were happy they would not be so filled with hatred and contempt for one another and would easily be able to sit down and negotiate a peaceful means whereby the United States would purchase from Iraq all its weapons and would then destroy not only all of Iraq's weapons but also all the weapons stockpiled by the United States. Until the United States completely disarms, it is the height of hypocrisy to ask anyone else to do so. If the United States government does not agree to disarm, then there is no rational alternative to a regime change."

28 posted on 12/15/2003 6:47:00 AM PST by kanawa (48*26'06.6" 83*30'00.2")
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To: jagrmeister
They are paid to teach, not to indoctrinate.They are OVERpaid to teach. The cost of tuition keeps skyrocketing. Why? The biggest expense are these hypocrite teachers who think they deserve all this money for what they do. With three children under 5 I'm hoping something turns around before they are college age. But just like homeschooling is now legitimate choice, the internet will probably expand to cover college courses.
29 posted on 12/15/2003 6:56:46 AM PST by stevio
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To: fella
Isn't Jensen the same guy who dressed down an ROTC candidate in class?
30 posted on 12/15/2003 6:58:59 AM PST by The Right Stuff
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To: nickcarraway; Grampa Dave; MeeknMing
Bump & Ping
31 posted on 12/15/2003 7:04:57 AM PST by EdReform (Support Free Republic - Become a Monthly Donor)
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To: nickcarraway
I have been reading about this problem with US colleges and universities for some time now. I have the opinion that education is non-existent inside these hallowed halls. If that is correct, why bother? What is the point in going there? It cost a royal fortune - a fortune spent to have the students' minds turned to mush. What's the point in attending a class that one cannot pass unless one assumes the postion and espouses lockstep ideas of the anti-American endoctrinators?

It also causes me to wonder why the EVIL corporations of this "imperialistic capitalism" swine-of-a-nation would put so much emphasis on higher education in their choices for hiring and promoting the graduates of such a vile system of re-education. I wouldn't want some socialist-newby starting his or her career in my company. I damn sure wouldn't want them in my boardroom. It is something to think about.
32 posted on 12/15/2003 8:24:32 AM PST by whereasandsoforth (tagged for migratory purposes only)
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To: nickcarraway; EdReform; Squantos; Clinger; GeronL; Billie; Slyfox; San Jacinto; SpookBrat; FITZ; ...
Liberals on the List: Conservative Students
Are Tracking Professors Who Arouse Ire

Excerpt:

D A L L A S, Dec. 13— University of Texas journalism professor Robert Jensen is an unapologetic liberal who openly expresses his strong views, both in and out of the classroom.

"My political views are left," Jensen said. "Some people would call me a radical." In the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001, student Austin Kinghorn felt Jensen crossed the line.

"We walked in, and he had the overhead projector turned on, and on there was a sentence, 'What is terrorism?' " Kinghorn said. "And Jensen took the next hour and 15 minutes of class to basically make his point, two days after 9/11, that the American government is a far worse perpetrator of terrorism than the 9/11 hijackers."

Kinghorn, chairman of the Young Conservatives of Texas, was deeply offended.

"I felt like Professor Jensen was manipulating a national tragedy," Kinghorn said, "to make a point that he wants to make about his far-leftist agenda that seems to blame every problem in the world on American policy."



Please let me know if you want ON or OFF my Texas ping list!. . .don't be shy.
No, you don't HAVE to be a Texan to get on this list!


33 posted on 12/15/2003 8:44:33 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Hillary is a TRAITOR !!: http://Richard.Meek.home.comcast.net/HitlerTraitor6.JPG)
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To: MeeknMing
I skimmed through the story and was unable to locate any mention of the television coverage of this story. The personal interviews with the leftifts were great.
34 posted on 12/15/2003 8:49:05 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection
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To: TexasCowboy
I guess you were right about the University Of Texas.

By the way, how is the little Texas Termite doing?
35 posted on 12/15/2003 8:50:43 AM PST by Texagirl4W (You should not confuse your career with your life.)
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To: nickcarraway
The real problem here is this idiot professor taking class time to push his poinht of view instead of teaching. As a parent who is about to spend lots of bucks to send a child to college, I'd be equally outraged to hear that a conservative or moderate professor did the same.

As for the fellow who wants a bill to protect college students from left-wing bias -- give me a break. You think you can leglislate this kind of thing?
36 posted on 12/15/2003 8:56:59 AM PST by kegler4
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To: Texagirl4W
I went there, but it's a lot more radically liberal than in my day.
I'm very happy to see that there are some students standing up to this push to the left.

The Texas Termite is doing good!
He was scheduled to have his pulmonary exam today, but it's been put off until Friday.
This is to determine if he can get that canula out of his nose and breathe on his own.

I've had so much trouble with my ping list that I may not have you on it, but I'll correct that problem right now.
Thank you for your prayers.

37 posted on 12/15/2003 9:27:02 AM PST by TexasCowboy (COB1)
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To: MeeknMing
I wish they had a list like this when I was in college.
38 posted on 12/15/2003 9:36:09 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: kegler4
The real problem here is this idiot professor taking class time to push his poinht of view instead of teaching. As a parent who is about to spend lots of bucks to send a child to college, I'd be equally outraged to hear that a conservative or moderate professor did the same.

Yes, that's true. But the real problem goes a bit deeper than that. The real problem is that these leftists' so-called "academic freedom" has become a new anti-intellectualism. The great scholars of the past would be appalled to see what's been going on at Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Princeton, etc. for the last 35 years.

Law schools are especially bad. Since the liberals took over, no longer are students taught to uphold the law and constitution, but rather, that law is a means with which to further one's own sociopolitical agenda. This explains why liberal justices in the Supreme Court are always ruling in favor of liberal causes according to their own convictions, while conservative judges usually don't rule in favor of conservative causes unless it is constitutionally warranted. I suspect it also explains why we have so many frivolous, ridiculous lawsuits today. Lawyers give people the impression that the practice of law is a tool with which one can better him/herself or his/her causes.

In my opinion, McCarthyism, for all its freakishness, was not anti-intellectualism. On the contrary, it was protecting tried and true methods of education from the radical fringes of Marxist modernist/postmodernist types who wished to replace them with meaningless psychobabble to further their ridiculous ambitions. Their philosophies were not derivatives of logic and scholarship; they were pure drivel based on what "sounded nice."

Given the state of the higher education today, I'd say McCarthyism failed rather miserably. Perhaps that was not the best method of counter-leftism. Hopefully, my generation will begin a new, more effective movement.

39 posted on 12/15/2003 9:45:41 AM PST by MegaSilver
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To: The Right Stuff
Isn't Jensen the same guy who dressed down an ROTC candidate in class?

If he is, he deserves a lot more than a blacklisting.

40 posted on 12/15/2003 9:47:15 AM PST by MegaSilver
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To: MissAmericanPie
Me too ...

41 posted on 12/15/2003 10:05:31 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Hillary is a TRAITOR !!: http://Richard.Meek.home.comcast.net/HitlerTraitor6.JPG)
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To: whereasandsoforth
I went to a university in N.C. for a period of time attending night classes. When I walked into a law class, my teacher started the first night by starting out that she was liberal and she was disappointed that Clinton was not being liberal enough. I laughed at her and said "This is going to be fun". She and I had quite a few very heated debates about the law and the political spectrum. She turned out to be one of the best teachers I've had. She was willing to espouse her views, but also, when confronted with logic and dicipline, allowed me to express why I thought she was wrong. Nine times out of ten, she would look at the rest of the stunned class and ask them if they had any answers to my points that would prove I was wrong. And nine times out of ten, most of the class would agree with me.

On the other hand, I had an Ethics teacher who came in and gave us on our first night his history of having worked for just about every liberal candidate we found. He then expressed to us the position that he had and stated that he felt that one of his jobs was to show us the right way to "good thought" because only the left was ethical. I had a field day with him. One day, he lost it when the study was on the ethics of employee/employer relationship and I asked him if it was ethical for an employer to engage in a sexual tryst with an employee. He said it was absolutely not. Then I looked him square and asked him in front of the class how he could tell us, based on the fact that he was an ethics teacher, that Bill Clinton was one of the greatest presidents, considering he had done just that. He sputtered and stammered and then told me that I better be careful, because he held my grade in his hand. I looked at him and said "You are the one who needs to be careful. You don't have tenure." Needless to say, I got an A in his class. He knew to give me anything less, I would have eaten him alive.

42 posted on 12/15/2003 10:10:38 AM PST by spacewarp (Visit the American Patriot Party and stay a while. http://www.patriotparty.us)
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To: MegaSilver
Honestly, if a professor of mine did that TWO DAYS after 9/11, I would at least have prevented him from continuing to use the class as a soapbox and I might have beaten the crap out of him. It would have been worth it, and after 9/11 in TEXAS, do you think a jury would have convicted me?
43 posted on 12/15/2003 10:13:19 AM PST by Skywalk
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To: nickcarraway
"Nobody with power is telling me I can't say something," Jensen said. "It's only going to become censorship if university administrators, who have the power to hire and fire and the power to punish faculty, start requiring a kind of ideological conformity for advancement in the profession. If that happens, then higher education is dead."

Pot calling the kettle black.

Every time these Communists are called out on their indoctrination of our young people, they start screaming like a stuck pig about censorship.

Oh yeah? Well how about all the "speech codes" and "campus discipline" dished out at anyone who dares to publicly disagree with their Trotskyist dogma? If that isn't censorship, then I don't know what is.

44 posted on 12/15/2003 10:28:11 AM PST by FierceDraka (Service and Glory!)
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To: MegaSilver
Perhaps that was not the best method of counter-leftism.

In my opinion, the best method of counter-leftism involves and open field and a bunch of 12-foot long sharpened wooden stakes. But that's me, and I could be wrong.

45 posted on 12/15/2003 10:42:31 AM PST by FierceDraka (Service and Glory!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
C's Wife,

I have to say that as a combat veteran I thought I was doing it in part in order to protect the speech rights of even such losers as Katz and Corrie, and that other kid in your link (forget his name) who was with the Earth First terrorists. But free speech cuts both ways, as these goons forget.

I celebrate the deaths of the two kids -- hey, join with evil, and evil befalls you. The universe has some harsh laws. Like gravity, as young George of the Jungle found out ("watch out for that tree!"). And "an object in motion tends to remain in motion" --particularly when it's a bulldozer. If Rachel Corrie's parents had helped her with her physics homework instead of filling her full of antisemitic hate, she might still be sucking oxygen instead of feeding worms. Well, good riddance to bad rubbish.

And I also thought I was protecting the right of individuals and groups to speak out, even in the days before the election. Little did I know that, to our supreme court, random schmoes have the right to send you endless kiddie-porn spam but no one who is not a card-carrying member of the press has the right to speak on politics... haysus marimba.

Funny also, that when these professors say the most outrageous crap, it's "freedom," like that Marxist guy Katz who couldn't even articulate, when asked, what Marxism was or what it stood for, and when other people merely report what the losers are saying, it's "censorship." Dude, if what you said makes people hate you, I am not a censor for telling them you said it.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

46 posted on 12/15/2003 1:42:29 PM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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To: FierceDraka
In my opinion, the best method of counter-leftism involves and open field and a bunch of 12-foot long sharpened wooden stakes. But that's me, and I could be wrong.


47 posted on 12/15/2003 3:03:40 PM PST by MegaSilver
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To: Criminal Number 18F
Bump!
48 posted on 12/15/2003 10:52:35 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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