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Phoenix: Is this what we want in our city (The effects of illegals)
PhxNews ^ | azred

Posted on 12/15/2003 11:03:47 AM PST by hsmomx3

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To: John Robertson
"By sophisticated I mean, would they appreciate our form of government, our founding principles, the American way of life? I don't think so. Bad culture drives out good. Variation on Gresham's Law. Always has, always will."

I see, so all Hispanic culture is no good? I believe your prejudice is showing.

If these people suddenly had more money, more education and hung around with people who expected better, then yes I think you would see a marked change in most. Not in all, obviously. There are bad ones in every group.

The Hispanics I know here certainly respect our founding principles and the American way of life, but then I don't know any who are dirt poor. The ones I know are pretty at or above my socio-economic level and they pretty much fit right in. Over in another, poorer part of town I'm sure they do park in the front yard.

One family I know respects the American way of life so much that they now own a fair sized local chain of Mexican restaurants and the core of that family is quite well off. Guess what? They don't park cars in their front yard or yell and scream while drinking Bud Light in the street. In fact, their houses put mine to shame. And I can't remember the last time one of them got caught spraying graffiti. These folks came here (legally) with virtually nothing and no doubt did park in the front yard once upon a time. They worked their tails off (and still do) and achieved the American dream. And they make the best Mexican food around where I live.

I know there are areas where it's bad all around the U.S. I'm not condoning or defending that. But I dispute your contention that it's simply a Hispanic cultural thing.
101 posted on 12/16/2003 7:50:35 AM PST by kegler4
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To: kegler4
"But I dispute your contention that it's simply a Hispanic cultural thing."

You know what's sad? Not that you completely misread what I said (I did NOT say the above), but that I don't have time to explain what I meant. I do not mean that in a snide way at all. I am self-employed and so damned holiday-jammed with obligations that MUST be done before Christmas that I should not even be online right now.

Let's leave it at no harm, no foul, okay? And wish one another Merry Christmas. Uh, Feliz Navidad.
102 posted on 12/16/2003 7:57:01 AM PST by John Robertson
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To: riri
The Census Bureau said that about 52 percent of the U.S. foreign-born population is from Latin America, 27 percent from Asia and 15 percent from Europe.

Study: Immigration Biggest Contributor to Sprawl (87% of Growth Attributed to Immigrants)

103 posted on 12/16/2003 8:01:05 AM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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To: John Robertson
Sorry if I misunderstood you but when you said bad culture in your first post I assumed you were referring to Hispanic culture. That was the culture being discussed.

Anyway, Merry Christmas.
104 posted on 12/16/2003 8:03:44 AM PST by kegler4
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To: Weimdog; hsmomx3; riri; vto; Joe Hadenuf; WackyKat; gubamyster; fso301; international american; ...
Q: Why does the United States Government permit wholesale illegal Mexican immigration?

A: For the workers.

Q: Why does the United States Government need foreign workers (not just Mexicans)?

A: It does not have enough labor force to meet the service sector and other blue collar work sector demands and growth within it's economy.

Q: Why does the United States Government not have enough workers to meet economic demand?

A: Over TWENTY MILLION AMERICAN WORKERS HAVE BEEN ABORTED OVER THE PAST TWENTY YEARS.

Q: If over twenty million American workers have been aborted over the past twenty years, who is going to pay for (read: generate taxes) the Social Security of the baby-boomer generation (now reaching critical mass)?

A: Mexican workers.

Any questions?

105 posted on 12/16/2003 8:12:16 AM PST by Happy2BMe (2004 - Who WILL the TERRORISTS vote for? - - Not George W. Bush, THAT'S for sure!)
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To: Happy2BMe
Considering the number of people we have on unemployment and the welfare roles I don't know that we actually need to import labor but I can appreciate the point you're trying to make.

106 posted on 12/16/2003 8:16:56 AM PST by Bikers4Bush (Bush and Co. are quickly convincing me that the Constitution Party is our only hope.)
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To: Happy2BMe
You're correct about abortion and its effect on the working population, but in states that have little or no illegal immigration all the work is getting done. If we ended it all tomorrow and closed the borders, the market would adapt by increasing mechanization etc. And we could still have a generous legal immigration program as well.

Those that are pushing for illegal immigration just want an endless supply of cheap, compliant labor while passing the social costs onto the rest of us.

107 posted on 12/16/2003 8:36:58 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Happy2BMe
" . . . who is going to pay for (read: generate taxes) the Social Security of the baby-boomer generation (now reaching critical mass)?

A: Mexican workers."

I wouldn't hold my breath. One of two solutions is more likely:
1. SS withholding will be raised substantially to cover SS benefits for the elderly, or
2. SS benefits will likely be cut for the baby-boomers.

Of those two possible scenarios, #2 seems the more likely. There is a possible third scenario in which SS is simply allowed to be bankrupted, but I don't honestly see that as happening. SS is a money grab for Congress and they won't give it up easily or willingly.

In case you missed it, Bush has already agreed to send SS benefits south of the border to illegals who worked in this country and had SS withheld. I don't think we will be seeing a lot of Mexican workers supplementing the baby-boomers on this one.

BTW, have you considered the implications of sending SS benes to Mexico? It, potentially, gives them entree into our political process since their benes will be affected if anything happens to SS. Something to think about.
108 posted on 12/16/2003 8:53:48 AM PST by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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To: Happy2BMe
Interesting theory. I was in Boca Raton, FL a few years ago visiting some friends. Their son was attending college at the nearby Florida Atlantic University. His car was in the shop and he needed a ride to class. Having a rental, I took him to class. I think he had two back to back classes that day and I told him I'd hang out in the Library.

While in the library, I found myself in the government documents section. On several shelves were volumes of books arranged by year titled something like "Floridas Vital Statistics".

I picked one out, thumbed through it and was amazed at the demographic breakdown (age, sex, race, marital status, etc) for birth and death statistics. I then selected the oldest volume and began comparing statistics decade-by-decade to the present.

When I selected a volume from the 1970's, I noticed detailed abortion statistics were being listed. I backed up to 1973 and began comparing abortion statistics on a year-by-year basis moving forward. Curiously the abortion statistics were no longer published after 1983 or 1984 ( can't remember exactly). Now I was wondering why. So, I went back and looked them over again and guess what jumped out at me? A popular propaganda piece from the abortionists is that it's needed by young poor single women to assist them in recovering from an accidental pregnancy. Sounds fine but that's not what I saw in those published statistics. Abortions as a percentage of live births seemed to climb with age peaking at around 27, pulling back a bit and peaking again around 34.

With that, I was pretty certain why those embarrassing statistics were no longer being published.

Suspecting that others states probably published their abortion statistics from 1973 forward for a few years before withdrawing them as did Florida, I always wanted to assemble comparable vital records from all 50 states and reporting territories, scan them, analyze them and publish the findings.

109 posted on 12/16/2003 8:54:45 AM PST by fso301
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To: hsmomx3
Bud Lite? That's not even real beer.....
110 posted on 12/16/2003 8:55:54 AM PST by Dan from Michigan ("if you wanna run cool, you got to run, on heavy heavy fuel" - Dire Straits)
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To: hsmomx3
And then there is the City of Santa Ana, whose Mayor and Coucil passed a Resolution ordering the Border Patrol to stay out of the City Limits because " the Border Patrol makes our citizens nervous".

Someone ought to read Joseph Wambaugh's (Ex LAPD detective)
book FUGITIVE NIGHTS. Written well before 9-11-2001, the plot concerns the search for an Arabic fugitive, who is really a Mexican.

Can YOU tell them all apart ? ( Hispanics vs. Islamics )
111 posted on 12/16/2003 9:08:26 AM PST by Ramonan (Ann has done her homework.)
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To: Happy2BMe
Sad - is all I can say
112 posted on 12/16/2003 9:09:35 AM PST by JustPiper (Saddam gives new meaning to "Ace in the Hole")
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To: Happy2BMe
I agree with you that there are too many abortions performed in the US, but with an unemployment rate of 6.5%, your argument doesn't hold water.
113 posted on 12/16/2003 9:48:57 AM PST by Weimdog
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To: FeliciaCat
"I went to school with many American Mexicans and they were the MOST vocal against the
illegals..."

Not trying to pick a fight here, but maybe you could clarify something for me. If what you are saying is true, then why do the majority of the legal immigrants from south of the border refuse to vote for anyone who says that they want to curtail illegal immigration? My observation is that they don't really want anything done about it because they have friends and relatives who are illegal aliens. They like to talk about it but they aren't serious about changing anything.
114 posted on 12/16/2003 11:50:50 AM PST by webstersII
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To: Happy2BMe
You make a good point. I don't exactly see too many "poor unemployed" whites here in the Metro NYC. Even the unionized construction jobs are increasingly using immigrant labor, as the kids of the old blue collar guys have either gone to college or some other occupation. There are plenty of unemployable native-born Americans in the projects and Section 8's but thats another story.

This is the case in NYC. Maybe out in the "heartland" there are large concentrations of unemployed, impoververished "Amurcans" displaced by Mexican labor, but here in New York its a different story. I do believe, however, that the large presence of illegals of all ethnicities (New York has a huge illegal Chinese population, for example) does hold down wages at the low end of the service sector.

115 posted on 12/16/2003 2:16:57 PM PST by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: hsmomx3
Bump for later.
116 posted on 12/16/2003 3:51:03 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Don't avoid. Read Joe Guzzardi.)
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To: webstersII
I just know what I experienced...I'm sure there are many American Mexicans who have other opinions...
117 posted on 12/17/2003 6:30:19 AM PST by FeliciaCat
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To: DustyMoment; Mamzelle
If control of our cities is what we want, we have the capability. If control of our borders is what we want we have the capability. All we have to do is make more noise than the liberal opposition, somebody will pay attention.

The solution, however, is NEVER run away in defeat. Don't like the illegals transforming the city into the land they abandoned? Take it back!!

I have often said the same thing.

You know, for the past several days we have been seriously weighing this up. We were considering moving to our rural place outside the "burbs", even though we live in a very *nice* area. Both are in California. We will be making a decision soon. I do agree however, and I have told people, you cannot run away from this or any trouble for that matter. This Federally approved immigration nightmare is now coast to coast, nationwide....

One thing is definite, we will not leave California. Weather is extremely important to us. Today, for example it was T-shirt and shorts, 75 degrees, and this is December! Nowhere beats southern Cal for weather in the U.S.

That being said, we are leaning towards staying put where we are, and continuing fighting these liberal, socialist that want to destroy this country with taxes, and this immigration lunacy. I have nothing but brutal contempt for them. Besides, my neighbors want us to stay, and combating these libs can actually be fun at times. Like watching Gray Davis go down in total disgrace and defeat.

That was historical and we believe a major turning point!

118 posted on 12/19/2003 10:04:17 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: Joe Hadenuf
BRAVO!!!!!

You go, Joe!!

We are all in this battle together. We cannot allow Bush, Ridge and Fox to continue to ignore this problem and pretend that it will go away.

If there's a problem in your neighborhood, chances are there's an ordinance that controls it. Make the state and county code enforcement folks do their jobs, that's why they have them.

Remember, "This land is OUR land, this land is OUR land . . . " (apologies to the author for the minor change in the lyrics).
119 posted on 12/20/2003 7:22:13 AM PST by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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