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Phoenix: Is this what we want in our city (The effects of illegals)
PhxNews ^ | azred

Posted on 12/15/2003 11:03:47 AM PST by hsmomx3

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To: Fishrrman
The amount of violent crime perpetrated by these illegals is stunning!But what do you expect from people who have no respect for our laws?
51 posted on 12/15/2003 12:52:34 PM PST by international american
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Can you imagine the howl and outrage if instead of the "Simpson's" it was the "Sanchez's".

Smithers was black for the first year or 2 of the series. He was such a toadie that I guess Greoning got hit by the PC crowd. So he had to be white since he was a negative character.

52 posted on 12/15/2003 12:53:27 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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To: Fishrrman
Now isn't that line (which we have heard before) a bit too hard for most of the dear readers of this forum to swallow?

There are at least two things we can do: close the borders so few more illegals get in, and pass the CLEAR Act which will compel BICE to pick up and deport those illegal aliens the police catch in their routine duties.

I agree going door to door is not an acceptable option for most of us, but we could take at least some action to get a handle on the problem.

53 posted on 12/15/2003 12:56:11 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Elsie
"You get what you subsidize."

We're now subsidizing foreign poverty, ignorance, disease and dependence. What an insult to Americans this is!! Most of our "elected ones" think it's great. Time for a regime change.

54 posted on 12/15/2003 12:56:15 PM PST by janetgreen (Tancredo for President)
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To: hsmomx3
Third world country coming to your neighborhood soon, courtesy of Tom Ridge and the U.S. government refusing to take a stand against ILLEGALS.
55 posted on 12/15/2003 12:56:55 PM PST by freeangel (freeangel)
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To: Joe Hadenuf
It is to the point where ever you go, you are not going to escape them.

I grew up where I now live. About 7 miles from what use to be a small town. It has now merged into stores, malls, low income apartments and Mexicans every where.

Local out of work residents, can kiss the food bank goodbye, Mexicans are lined up at 5am to get in line.

People are fed up with it, but the government is an island into itself, the politicans are going to do what the PARTY wants.

50 years of voting, and I have seen more in the disconnect between the voters, and their wishes, and government than in the last 20 years.

I asked my son, what kind of a country are these grandkids and ggreadkids going to have. He said, "Mom, they will grow up with it, they will never know what it use to be, like when you and I grew up."
56 posted on 12/15/2003 12:59:00 PM PST by calawah98
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To: deadeye2
"My neighborhood went Hispanic about three years ago. A couple years ago a punk who lives nextdoor said,"whatch your back whitey we outnumber you now".

That weekend I invited some of my Harley buddies over and we did burnouts in the driveway,which is right by their house. We finally quit about one in the morning. Now my neighbors just smile and wave when they see me."

That is fine for you and I am laughing hearing this. But you have more gonads than most, and are probably young. What about the little guy or an elderly man or woman being threatened? And it happens all the time in California.
Best, IA

57 posted on 12/15/2003 12:59:30 PM PST by international american
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To: hsmomx3
Hmm, you could say virtually the same thing about a large section of the southeast part of my city, but it's inhabited mostly by whites whose families have been in the U.S. for generations. This is socio-economic more than it is cultural.
58 posted on 12/15/2003 1:02:05 PM PST by kegler4
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
"close the borders so few more illegals get in,"
But they don't and they wont. Now we are talking about more amnesty, which in turn will bring more in. The city next to mine went from 20% hispanic to 64% in only ten years. The signs are all in spanish now. They cant afford my neighborhood, but there is flight outta here big time!
59 posted on 12/15/2003 1:08:29 PM PST by international american
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To: Joe Hadenuf
And Senator McCain AGREES with Ridge!!! I can see, where I work, how many parents that live HERE refuse to speak anything but Spanish, and expect US to cater to them!!
60 posted on 12/15/2003 1:11:41 PM PST by DLfromthedesert (We caught Saddam, but Vicente is still at large.)
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Well, considering that a) white people suck and b) men suck too, and we ALL know that's true, you're absolutely right.

(saith the warrior princess whose redneck dad drinks beer in his front yard)
61 posted on 12/15/2003 1:18:26 PM PST by Xenalyte (I may not agree with your bumper sticker, but I'll defend to the death your right to stick it)
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To: international american
But they don't and they wont.

In order to do those things like close the borders we have to have the political will. I don't see it coming from Bush who repeated his mantra today about matching up willing employees with employers.

We're probably going to have to wait till 2008 for a presidential candidate who hears the people on immigration, although there is a chance the CLEAR Act will pass Congress next year.

62 posted on 12/15/2003 1:20:27 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
2008 will be too late, I think.
63 posted on 12/15/2003 1:24:15 PM PST by international american
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To: international american
2008 will be too late, I think.

If any kind of general amnesty gets passed between now and then I agree it'll be too late.

64 posted on 12/15/2003 1:30:55 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: hsmomx3
It's not only Phoenix. Following describes intimidation of Manassas, Virginia City Counsel - drinking on the lawn is cultural!

Mexican consul attempts to bridge cultural divide


By SARI KRIEGER
skrieger@manassasjm.com
Monday, November 17, 2003


Edgardo Flores Rivas, the Consul General for the Mexican Consul in Washington, D.C., wants Manassas officials to better understand his countrymen living in their city.
"It's important you understand the Mexican culture, because you're getting a lot of Mexicans," Rivas said.

Rivas spoke to a group of about 40 police, fire and government officials Monday afternoon at the Kellar Family Theater in the Old Candy Factory in Old Town.

Mexicans often don't understand the American laws and customs, and officials don't understand Mexicans, Rivas said. He wanted officials to know they can call the consul for help.

Some of the troubles Mexicans face include getting important American documents because of different birth certificate practices in their home country. This makes things like getting paychecks and interacting with police officers difficult.

"We often have problems, particularly in the area of obtaining legal and recognizable documents that allow us to identify an individual," said Manassas Police Chief John Skinner.

The consul can help Mexicans get passports, and it issues its own identification card. Rivas encourages all immigrants to obtain a Consul identification card, or Matricula, to prevent false arrests and misunderstandings.

"It's important for us that our people are not confused with terrorists or criminals," Rivas said.

Selling property in Mexico and registering children are also tasks that may be daunting for an immigrant, and the consul seeks to help. But mostly, Rivas worries that Mexicans in legal trouble aren't getting lawful treatment or don't understand their rights.

"We're not here to get drunks out of jail, but if it's a serious offense and will get complicated, we want to be notified," Rivas said.

Even illegal immigrants have rights, Rivas said. Workers without residency papers still have the same labor rights as legal residents, except back pay, according to Rivas.

"You can't exploit a worker because he doesn't have legal documents," Rivas said. "We make sure the legal rights of the person are observed."

Rivas wanted those in attendance to think of Mexicans as hard workers, not as criminals. But sometimes they will loiter or gather in conversation instead of working, he said, because frequent social interaction is of paramount importance to their culture and emotional well-being, not because they're lazy or wish to break any laws.

Some Mexicans have often been harassed, according to Rivas. He said they are known to store money in their pockets or homes because they can't open a back account without identification.

Drinking alcohol in public is acceptable in Mexico, and when immigrants are arrested for alcohol related violations here they don't understand, according to Puerto Rican native and Prince William County Sheriff's deputy Janice Hetzel. The language barrier makes interactions with police even more difficult, and Hispanics often think normal confiscation of the money and property on their person during arrest is a payoff for police, as occurs in Mexico, Hetzel said.

"They have a lot of money in their pockets, and they think they're paying for services to let them go," she said. "But the word has gotten around that they return your property to you."

Hetzel said communications have improved with the hiring of Spanish speaking deputies like herself, but Hispanics have often already experienced miscommunication with officers and others by the time they reach the sheriff's office.

Hank Azais has been active in Hispanic issues in Manassas, and Skinner said he is an important liaison between authorities and the Hispanic community. Azais said he tries to educate the people that deal with Hispanics.

Education in general is often a problem for Hispanics in America, Rivas said. Parents who don't speak or read English can't help their children with homework.

Woodbridge District School Board Representative Denita Ramirez said she would like to see an increase in English as a Second Language programs for parents, which could help foster a greater understanding between Hispanics and their new community.

"It's important that the schools are able to reach out to the families," Ramirez said.



65 posted on 12/15/2003 1:37:57 PM PST by satan
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To: hsmomx3
My neighborhood is now filled with people that think the front yard is a parking lot

And the backyard is a landfill.

66 posted on 12/15/2003 1:38:16 PM PST by abigailsmybaby
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To: hsmomx3
My neighborhood is now filled with people that think the front yard is a parking lot, and that standing in the front yard drinking Bud Light and partying after work is OK.

What exactly is wrong about this?

Also, I'm assuming the author is assuming these folks are illegal immigrants. But don't many American citizens across the country also park and drink beer in their front yards after work??

67 posted on 12/15/2003 1:42:56 PM PST by k2blader (Jesus: Liar, Lunatic, or Lord?)
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To: DLfromthedesert
how many parents that live HERE refuse to speak anything but Spanish, and expect US to cater to them!!

HeHe!! I know of at least one small town hospital where they are simply SOL! The two ladies working the front desk probably know three words of Spanish between them..."Hasta la Vista".

If the patient can't communicate in English, they don't get helped. It's amazing how many of them drop the pretense and speak English when the patient registration clerk stands her ground.

68 posted on 12/15/2003 1:44:24 PM PST by HiJinx (Go with Courage, go with Honor, go in God's Grace. Come home when the job's done. We'll be here.)
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To: gubamyster
Again, it has been mention many times before. They do not want to come here and become Americans. They want to come here and make America...MEXICO!
69 posted on 12/15/2003 1:50:33 PM PST by chicagolady (Merry Christmas to all and to all a Good Night)
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To: Joe Hadenuf
"I'm sure you can figure it out. Just go down to your major hospital ER for a clue."

I compound fractured my toe on a sunday morning here in Wichita Kansas. I went to the ER, it was like a day at the UN. Only myself and and another man there spoke english. I moved back to Kansas from California when I retired because it had turned into a third world cesspool. Kansas it not far behind. Go to Dillons on a saturday morning and there are illegals selling power tools out of the trunks of their tricked out cars. I bought a house in the coutry hope to come into the city as little as possible.

regards,

the dozer
70 posted on 12/15/2003 2:47:17 PM PST by dozer7
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To: janetgreen
" I can name at least a dozen in southern California alone. It's unbelievable what this state is turning into, Mexican colonias like Tijuana."

Rialto California in the early 70s was a beautiful place. Orange groves - sleepy comfortable community. Five years ago my mother-in-law finally sold out and moved to northern california after the second drive by shooting and the forth time her house got robbed. At least now it is very diverse.

regards,

the dozer
71 posted on 12/15/2003 2:52:51 PM PST by dozer7
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To: hsmomx3
Phoenix: Is this what we want in our city?

I thought this was going to be about the Arizona Cardinals.

72 posted on 12/15/2003 2:57:03 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: dozer7
Rialto California in the early 70s was a beautiful place. Orange groves - sleepy comfortable community.

Rialto was lovely, I remember. Same with Santa Ana. Now SA is 90% Mexican, and you don't drive through there at night if you value your life.

73 posted on 12/15/2003 3:00:48 PM PST by janetgreen (Tancredo for President)
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To: deadeye2
...........we did burnouts in the driveway,which is right by their house. We finally quit about one in the morning.

Wellllllll, isn't that special! Let me know if a house goes up for sale near yours.

74 posted on 12/15/2003 3:07:33 PM PST by breakem
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To: janetgreen
I do the faxing, calling, emailing also, but thought if enough would start forwarding all the news articles, to all of them, it would just be another way of letting them know, it is just not the same people doing the same thing all the time.

I figure if every one I forward the email to, does the same forwarding, etc, it is going to reach people that really do not get that involved.

Just another far out idea, that I hope enough people will try, and see what happens, probably nothing, but as you say we have to keep trying.

Did you just get an email from Fair, to send faxes? Just got through faxing a bunch of them.
75 posted on 12/15/2003 3:12:57 PM PST by calawah98
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To: kegler4
"This is socio-economic more than it is cultural."

That's a little too simplistic for me. The socio-economic and cultural aspects are so intertwined as to be inseparable, in my opinion. Here's something: If you suddenly tripled their income, would they they suddenly be sophisticated, caring, responsible citizens? By sophisticated I mean, would they appreciate our form of government, our founding principles, the American way of life?

I don't think so. Bad culture drives out good. Variation on Gresham's Law. Always has, always will.
76 posted on 12/15/2003 3:15:16 PM PST by John Robertson
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To: Incorrigible
In WVA we parked in the yard because we never got rid of a car or truck. After all, ya never know when you'll need a carb from a 51 GMC panel truck.

In Cal they park in the yard because there's only room for two cars in the driveway and two in the street and there's 11+ adults living in the house.

77 posted on 12/15/2003 3:15:50 PM PST by breakem
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To: dozer7
I compound fractured my toe on a sunday morning here in Wichita Kansas. I went to the ER, it was like a day at the UN. Only myself and and another man there spoke english. I moved back to Kansas from California when I retired because it had turned into a third world cesspool. Kansas it not far behind. Go to Dillons on a saturday morning and there are illegals selling power tools out of the trunks of their tricked out cars. I bought a house in the coutry hope to come into the city as little as possible.

I have no answers. It's very sad watching this happen before our eyes.

I've voted, screamed, protested, called my congressmen, worked for CA propostion 187, and none of it did any good. The people entering illegally are never ending....Get worse by the month.

I have told people for several years, what was happening in California, Texas and Arizona would soon be coming to their *own* cities and suburbs...And it's happening from Georgia to Oregon and all points in between.....

This is obviously what the government wants. I'm sorry.

As I said earlier, I've got no answers, the only real escape would be to leave the city and suburbs and try and make it in a more rural environment. Unfortunately, for some people, that isn't possible. We decided life was just too short....

78 posted on 12/15/2003 3:33:05 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: Xenalyte
Hank Hill and his buddies are standing in the back alley drinking beer, not in the front yard.
79 posted on 12/15/2003 4:42:04 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: edwords
Riverside Park, Central Park, Inwood Hill Park, The West Village, Upper East Side by Schurz Park.

Hell, its even prettier in the outer boroughs: Brooklyn Heights, the western part of Bay Ridge (by the water), City Island, Whitestone/Malba in Queens, Fieldston in the Bronx (although the Kennedys lived there once). New York is more than Times Square...

80 posted on 12/15/2003 4:56:13 PM PST by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: calawah98
Did you just get an email from Fair, to send faxes?

Yes, I fax through FAIR too, hoping that every bit might help.

81 posted on 12/15/2003 5:23:15 PM PST by janetgreen (Tancredo for President)
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To: international american
What about the little guy or an elderly man or woman being threatened? And it happens all the time in California.

You are right. I'm thinking of an elderly woman who lived down the street from me. Her apartment building went Mexican. She was terrified to leave her apartment because of the Mexican punks lounging around the courtyard day and night, hassling her, taking her purse, etc. She was on a fixed income and could not move. She simply lived in terror until she passed away.

And then there are the children. Schools in Los Angeles are majority Mexican now. The Mexican kids beat the crap out of the few black kids, saying, "Go back to Africa." Whites are told to "go back to Europe." The whites and the blacks were born here, yet the children of illegal invaders are telling them to get out!

Well, America was a great country while it lasted.

82 posted on 12/15/2003 6:31:04 PM PST by Nea Wood
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To: discostu
Apparently this person has never seen poor people before. The only difference between this behavior and the behavior of American poor people for the last few decades is the accent. They stand around outside getting drunk, they don't clean anything, they cover the landscape in graffiti. Nothing new under the sun except some people suddenly noticed when the poor people in question weren't speaking English.

You didn't mention the Latino gangs with their drug dealing and drive-by shootings.

83 posted on 12/15/2003 11:13:09 PM PST by usadave
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To: vto
We used to have huddled masses coming here yearning to breathe free. Now they come here yearning for freebies.
84 posted on 12/15/2003 11:18:11 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: hollywood
What? No more standing around the front yard drinking Bud Lite with a taco in your other hand????
85 posted on 12/15/2003 11:20:26 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Don't worry! Today W. promised that there would be NO blanket amnesty!

(It's going to be a serape amnestia, amigo.)

86 posted on 12/15/2003 11:25:21 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
Is there any evidence that these Mexican thugs vote in large numbers?
87 posted on 12/15/2003 11:33:28 PM PST by gipper81
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To: hsmomx3
My neighborhood is now filled with people that think the front yard is a parking lot, and that standing in the front yard drinking Bud Light and partying after work is OK.

You mean that's not OK? The houses must be too close together in your area!

88 posted on 12/15/2003 11:43:35 PM PST by Concentrate
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To: hsmomx3
My neighborhood is now filled with people that think the front yard is a parking lot, and that standing in the front yard drinking Bud Light and partying after work is OK.

You mean that's not OK? The houses must be too close together in your area!

89 posted on 12/15/2003 11:51:34 PM PST by Concentrate
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To: Joe Hadenuf
If it hasn't hit your rural area, it's just a matter of time. Rural areas are a setup for waves of illegals. We've started calling our small town, San "put your village here", San Smithville, etc--everyone talks about changing a way of life, but it's only people like us that are not allowed to preserve such things. Little sweet shops are now "Tiendas Mexicana" advertising their means of electronically transferring money earned here back to Mexico-- our little town has three such stores, and a beauty salon. Wouldn't want to use local trade, or anything. Interesing how insular they have become, set up a Little Mexico in San Smithville and every day more arrive. They won't attend local churches....

If there are construction jobs, landscaping, farming, physical labor of any kind--if there's any kind of inexpensive housing, like mobile homes--just a matter of time.

I've said it before, I'd vote for Howard Dean if he convinced me he'd enforce our generous immigration laws.

Saw in Hickory, NC, a bumper sticker--"Welcome to North Carolina, Mexico's Newest Colony."

90 posted on 12/16/2003 5:58:29 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Joe Hadenuf
I can understand your position, that the best thing to do is to move away from where all the illegals are. However, that smacks mightily of surrender. And once you do that, nothing will stop these parasites from following you, and taking over wherever you eventually fled to. I hate to say this, but we may find ourselves having to fight to save our country, because if we don't, and if nothing is done to reverse this invasion, we will be a third-world country in ten or twenty years, with the English language only spoken furtively and secretly. Good God, the greatest country in the history of the world is being conquered by a horde of unwashed, basically illiterate, criminal misfits without a shot being fired. And our elected officials are accomplices in the crime.
91 posted on 12/16/2003 6:29:04 AM PST by ought-six
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To: FeliciaCat
"I went to school with many American Mexicans and they were the MOST vocal against the illegals..."

That's funny, so did I, in Southern California. And I can tell you that a lot of them were filled with the La Raza crap that so dominates everything today. Most of the "Mexican-Americans" I knew when I was young were VERY MUCH in favor of illegals, BUT ONLY IF THEY WERE FROM MEXICO! The Mexican-Americans I knew in school HATED Asians, for instance.
92 posted on 12/16/2003 6:33:00 AM PST by ought-six
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To: DustyMoment
"The solution, however, is NEVER run away in defeat. Don't like the illegals transforming the city into the land they abandoned? Take it back!! Make their lives more miserable everytime they setup one of these "open air" junk and puke markets they're so fond of. If that's the type of commerce environment they want, help them move back to Mexico, or instruct them on the right way to lease space in a flea market or strip mall. But, DO NOT just abandon the city in defeat."

Very well said.
93 posted on 12/16/2003 6:34:28 AM PST by ought-six
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To: Fishrrman
You mean like "Raus und schnell!"????
94 posted on 12/16/2003 6:38:12 AM PST by ought-six
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To: discostu
You have to get out more often.
95 posted on 12/16/2003 6:40:10 AM PST by petercooper (Proud VRWC Neanderthal)
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To: janetgreen
I returned to California over this Thanksgiving when my father died. It was even worse than I remembered it. L.A. has ceased to be an American city; it is so very clearly a Mexican city. Mexican elements and interests dominate L.A., so much so that it is basically a third-world toilet of a city, save for a few isolated oases of cleanliness.
96 posted on 12/16/2003 6:41:42 AM PST by ought-six
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To: international american
"What about the little guy or an elderly man or woman being threatened? And it happens all the time in California."

They need to pack some heat. Hell, they are gonna get tagged anyway, so they might as well fight back before they go under.
97 posted on 12/16/2003 6:45:21 AM PST by ought-six
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To: usadave
You mean the Crips and Bloods? No wait, those are black gangs that deal drugs and have drive-by shootings and pre-date the Latino gangs by close to a decade. I have a hard time keeping these things straight.

I'm not saying the illegal immigrants aren't a problem, I'm simply pointing out that 90% of the complaints people lodge against them can be (and have been) lodged against almost every group of poor people.
98 posted on 12/16/2003 7:08:48 AM PST by discostu (that's a waste of a perfectly good white boy)
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To: petercooper
I get out plenty enough to know that you're just as likely to find white or black poor people engaged in all the behavior the author complains about. The bad habits of poverty are race neutral.
99 posted on 12/16/2003 7:09:58 AM PST by discostu (that's a waste of a perfectly good white boy)
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To: Joe Hadenuf
HAS anyone seen the new dell commercial ,everytime they make a new one it gets worse , they pick the geekiest white guy they can find to act like he is not only ugly but stupid as well.
100 posted on 12/16/2003 7:23:45 AM PST by douglas1 (THE immigration)
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